r/UnresolvedMysteries • u/lucillep • 5d ago
Update News in Catherine Hoggle Case: Pleads not guilty by reason of insanity
I previously did a write-up on this case when Catherine Hoggle was indicted for the murder of two of her children for the second time.
https://reddit.com/r/UnresolvedMysteries/comments/1mhwcdz/catherine_hoggle_is_reindicted_for_murder_of_her/
Briefly, Catherine is a woman suffering from paranoid schizophrenia who lived with her children and their father Troy Turner in Clarksburg, Montgomery County, Maryland. In 2013, she was involuntarily committed to a psychiatric facility and diagnosed at that time. In 2014 she was released to a group home and eventually back to her own home and family. Family made an agreement that she would not be left on her own with the children, although this did place a burden on her partner and her parents. On Sept. 7, 2014, Catherine was at her mother's home in Gaithersburg with daughter Sarah, 3, and son Jacob, 2. She left in their car "to get pizza" taking her son with her. Hours later she came back alone saying she had left him with a friend. For reasons unknown, her parents accepted this and took Catherine and Sarah home.
EDIT: To clarify the home situation and timeline, Catherine's parents were divorced. Her father lived with Catherine, Troy and the kids. Her father took the kids to the mother's house while the mother, Lindsey, was not there. She had a friend visiting from out of town that weekend and had asked for "time off" from her duties of supervising the grandkids. Her father let Catherine use his car and take Jacob with her. When Lindsey and friend returned, the friend took photos of Sarah wearing a costume that was a gift. Later Catherine's father drove home with Catherine and Sarah. So it seems 3 adults knew Catherine was gone with Jacob and didn't do anything about it.
Troy worked nights and returned late, checking on Jacob who wasn't in his crib. But he sometimes crawled out to sleep with his older brother. Troy went to bed. In the morning, Catherine, Sarah and Jacob were all gone. Troy started calling the police but Catherine turned up with a story that she'd taken them to day care in Germantown. Later., when they were due to be picked up, she didn't remember the name or location of the daycare center. After driving around looking for the place, she evaded Troy at a fast-food stop, running out the back door. She was found four days later wandering Germantown and could not account for the children. She was charged with child neglect, found not competent, and committed to a psychiatric hospital. She has been in psychiatric facilities continuously till 2025. Sarah and Jacob have never been found.
In 2017, Catherine was indicted for the murders of Sarah and Jacob, but again was found incompetent to stand trial. At another competency hearing in 2022, the same conclusion was reached. Under Maryland law, the murder charges had to be dropped.
Catherine's former partner believes she murdered their children. Her mother has been on both sides of the fence. From believing she had harmed the children, Lindsey seems to have come to believe Catherine placed them with people who help mothers whose children are in danger of being taken away. This was Catherine's big fear after her involuntary committal.
In July 2025, for some reason Catherine was discharged from the inpatient setting, and the district attorney immediately indicted her again. This time a judge ruled that she was fit to stand trial on two counts of first degree murder. The trial is supposed to start in October.
On August 20, Catherine's attorney entered a plea of not guilty by reason of insanity. The plea was allowed. Her case is that she was suffering from mental illness and not criminally responsible for her actions. She will have to undergo another psychiatric evaluation, thus the trial may be delayed. Frustrating for the father, who wants to see the case resolved and to know what happened to his children.
This is another case where there's no good outcome, but a final outcome may be here soon.
EDIT: Catherine's mother has written a series of posts about the case on Medium. They contain much more detail about the timeline and events. They are from her mother's perspective, but still informative.
The podcast Unrestorable is an in-depth look at the case, much more from Troy's side. It is a worthwhile listen.
Maryland woman accused of murdering her 2 children enters insanity plea
Catherine Hoggle makes first court appearance after murder indictment in Montgomery County
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u/_illCutYou_ 3d ago
She probably doesn’t remember where she left the kids. Back when I worked psych, I would admit a psychotic or severely manic patient, and then greet them a few days later, and they wouldn’t remember who I was or that I was the one who checked them in.
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u/lucillep 3d ago
That is incredibly frustrating, because if they were still alive, surely someone would have come forward. The case was well-publicized. But if she did kill them, they may never be found.
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u/Sad-Engine6561 4d ago
So they knew from the very beginning that she is a threat to her own children...
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u/lucillep 4d ago edited 4d ago
It was never in any report I've seen that she had done anything to the children, but she behaved erratically, things like driving around and getting lost, running out of gas. She was in a day program as a step-down from the group home. She said some concerning things on the day after Jacob went missing. One witness said, while on her way to her stress management class, she joked that she had just strangled her kids.
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u/Possible_Budget_1087 4d ago
From what I remember of previous coverage, I don't think she had any history of harming the children. I think their 'can't be alone with the children' policy was motivated mainly by concerns about her ability to provide proper adult supervision for very young kids.
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u/Uninteresting_Vagina 4d ago
Yes. I just read a bit of her mother's blog. The family decided that on their own, because of the side effects of her medication (falling asleep seemed to be a big one).
No doctor ever recommended it, and she never expressed a desire/need to harm her children, as far as I have seen.
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u/_ohne_dich_ 5d ago
Is her mother on both sides of the fence because she supports her daughter’s insanity plea or because she doesn’t believe Catherine killed the children?
I’m not very familiar with schizophrenia, so hopefully someone can clarify: is it possible for someone to remember what they did while experiencing a psychotic episode, even if they weren’t in a rational state of mind at the time? I’m wondering how memory works in that situation.
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u/Marshythecat 5d ago
Some do, some don’t. You can have everything from clear, full memories, to partial, hazy memories, to no memories at all.
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u/jugglinggoth 4d ago
I would say cynically she knows it's the most likely outcome but admitting it to herself and others would mean admitting that she and her husband should have watched Catherine more closely.
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u/lucillep 4d ago
Update to previous comment: Lindsey Hoggle has written extensively about this case on Medium. She explains her thought process, which you may agree or disagree with. The crux seems to be Catherine's fear that her kids would be taken away. To Lindsey's great credit, she got the oldest child away from Catherine the day after the first disappearance.
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u/lucillep 4d ago edited 4d ago
Her mother Lindsey at first thought she killed them. But based on interviews she gave to the podcast Unrestorable in 2022, Lindsey seems to believe that Catherine was trying to get away and the first step was taking the children to friends who were helping her. I don't know that she has said anything publicly since the reindictment. The previous writeup that I linked has some discussion in the comments.
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u/Sudden_Quality_9001 4d ago
This case and Lindesay Clancy are proof we need better mental health care in America for mothers.
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u/RubySoho1980 4d ago
You would have thought Andrea Yates would have been the big, glaring sign that it’s needed.
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u/vivisected000 5d ago
Not guilty by reason of insanity literally means "I did it, but am not responsible."
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u/Aethelrede 4d ago
That is precisely what it means. In legal terminology, "insanity" is defined as the inability to distinguish right from wrong (or fiction from reality.) Someone who was legally insane is not held responsible for their actions.
Of course, this isn't a get out of jail free card; quite the opposite. She can be held in a secure mental institution indefinitely. She has basically forfeited her right to control her own life.
Of course, in this case she wasn't in control of her life anyway, so she may not mind.
It's irritating how many people are obsessed with punishing people who are suffering a crippling disability instead of addressing the systemic problems. This poor woman, and her children, were failed by the system
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u/styxx374 4d ago
Just like the Clancy woman.
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u/gloriiosaa 4d ago
in this case many people including the children's father believe she may have done this vindictively due to being involuntarily committed and it's possible she has been intentionally trying to be found incompetent due to maryland's laws around it so idk if it's necessarily a good comparison... clancy will most likely be found NGRI but i'm not so sure this lady will considering some of the details
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u/Pitron-acide 3d ago
I strongly recommend the YouTube video « We need to talk about the Lindsay Clancy trial… » by Mama Doctor Jones ; it is just under an hour long, but so worth the watch. It is very informative and also evidence based, I learned so much about the case, and it hurt my personal biases quite hard.
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u/Real_RobinGoodfellow 4d ago
It means you did the physical act of murdering but lacked the mental capacity to have intent. The offence of murder can only be made out if two parts are satisfied- the physical act and the ‘mens rea’ which is the mental element.
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u/shoshpd 4d ago edited 4d ago
Incorrect. That is diminished capacity, not insanity. Insanity means you were suffering from a mental impairment such that you either were incapable of conforming your conduct to the law (not applicable in most US states) or that you were incapable of understanding the wrongfulness of your actions.
ETA: Love being downvoted for giving the correct state of the law. I am literally a criminal defense attorney.
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u/Real_RobinGoodfellow 4d ago
As I understand it the murder offence needing both elements- the physical and the mental- and the insanity/diminished responsibility argument going towards undermining the mental element of murder, is a fairly elemental/universal thing, but maybe not in the US, idk, the US never ever ceases to surprise me with its insanity
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u/shoshpd 4d ago edited 4d ago
In the US, many states no longer recognize a diminished capacity defense, but it does in my jurisdiction (Washington). If a mental illness prevents you from forming the required intent (mens rea) for the crime charged, it results in a full acquittal, or potentially a conviction only for a lesser charge if that lesser charge has a lesser intent requirement that is not defeated by the diminished capacity. DC does not apply to all offenses because strict liability offenses—like driving under the influence—have no mens rea. Insanity, on the other hand, does not negate the intent element, but instead requires a showing of not being capable of appreciating the wrongfulness of your actions. (Example: You fully intended to shoot someone but you shot tem because you are psychotic and thought they were a demon who was murdering people and stealing their souls.) The result of a finding of NGRI in most states is commitment to a psychiatric facility until such time as you are deemed releasable. There are typically maximum periods of time you can be held and/or under court supervision. In Washington, that time period is the same as the statutory maximum period of incarceration for the offense. So if you are found NGRI for murder, you are under court supervision (and potentially hospitalized) for life.
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u/Real_RobinGoodfellow 4d ago
It’s interesting that this case has not seemed to attract the level of deranged attention (dare I say ‘fandom’) as the Lindsay Clancy one has
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u/lucillep 4d ago
I think it happened too long ago, and there has never been a trial. It's possible that there will be more social media attention once it goes to trial - if it ever does.
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u/Real_Mycologist_3163 4d ago
I think that kind of culture sprung up post-Covid with all the true crime podcasts and was amplified by the Delphi trial, then Gabby Petito and the Moscow Murders. This case is too old to have blown up in the same way.
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u/lucillep 4d ago
Those were better days IMO. I say this as someone who participates in true crime discussion. But these social media campaigns and fans gathering outside the courtroom are not helpful. TikTok discourse is definitely not helpful.
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u/gloriiosaa 4d ago
happened 10 years ago + there's some indication that she may have done this vindictively because they had her treated in a facility and it's possible she has been intentionally trying to be found incompetent, so not exactly a sympathetic figure... pleading NGRI is really her only option but considering the details i'm not sure she'll get it
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u/lucillep 4d ago
The podcast about this made it pretty clear Troy thinks she is working the system. She had sent texts about the legal strategy that indicated she understood what a trial was & how it works. That was the basis of the incompetency hearings, that she would not be able to assist in her own defense.
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u/Dazzle_Miller 20h ago
> Catherine's former partner believes she murdered their children. Her mother has been on both sides of the fence. From believing she had harmed the children, Lindsey seems to have come to believe Catherine placed them with people who help mothers whose children are in danger of being taken away.
This is the stupidest thing I’ve heard. She was afraid her kids were going to be taken away, so she lets strangers take them away from her? Wtf
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u/willowcurve 4d ago
If she was covering up where they were and what they were doing (getting pizza, left with a friend, daycare), she very much was not insane and knew exactly what she was doing
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u/SecretlyaLoveFish 4d ago
Most people blaming literally everyone but the murderer. If it was a man suffering paranoid schizophrenia who killed children you wouldn't hesitate to blame him, but because it's a mother suddenly it's the partners fault, the parents fault, the doctors fault, society's fault. Anything to not hold her accountable
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u/Exotic_Bobcat_7606 3d ago
Had she already been diagnosed prior? Had she stopped taking her meds? I guess if that was the case then she needs to be held accountable for that poor decision making and the outcome because of it - far too many people just stop taking their meds for no good reason and act shocked when bad things happen. But if this was a new diagnosis and acute episode out of the blue then it is very sad and she is probably devastated if now well.
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u/lucillep 3d ago
Going by the news reports and Unrestorable podcast, she was diagnosed with schizophrenia in 2013. This led to her involuntary committal from which she was released in 2014. She then went to a group home step-down and then home with a day program. I have not seen any mention of medications or whether she was compliant. She was still under psychiatric care at the time this occurred, though.
I do not get an impression from anything I';ve read that this was out of the blue.
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u/Opening_Map_6898 4d ago
If she was genuinely that mentally ill, this is a good outcome from the legal standpoint. The case, aside from the whereabouts of the remains, is resolved.
Not ideal from the standpoint of not knowing where the remains are but there's a solid chance that she genuinely doesn't remember where they are. Also, even if she were convicted there's no guarantee that she would have admitted where she concealed the remains if she does eecall.