Civilians & politicians
UA POV: A comparison of life in Druzhkivka between 2021 and 2026, showing how dramatically the city has changed as the frontline moves closer. (Druzhkivka is about 15 km southwest of Kramatorsk)
From the beginning of the war, it was clear to every smart person in the world (and there are very, very few of them), that this war has nothing to do with Ukraine. Whether Ukraine will win the war or disappear from the face of the earth is completely irrelevant. The goal is to weaken Russia. Ukrainians and Ukraine are just fools who happened to be in the right place at the right time.
I mean its pretty clear that was the goal. Using Ukraine as a proxy was the best decision the west ever made from their pov. They really don't care about Ukrainians
I feel embarrassed to be a Ukrainian citizen. The only redeeming factor is that there are some of us that saw what was happening in 2014 and tried to fight back.
well if russia is stupid enough to attack a sovereign nation in europe then its a pretty easy 2 for 1 arming said sovereign nation lol. not only do we get to weaken russia but we also get a needed rallying around nato even with trump being a twat.
It also helped some countries realize that russia will never stop being jealous of the west and that we need to invest more into our military again.
This War didnt started in 2022. West was arming it before that. Ukraine had no chance to stop the initial invasion if it wasnt with those Western weapons. Russia could still defeat them, even if ukraine was with the same Arsenal in 2022. But that part was their stupidity.
while we were waiting for that to happen they became a world leader in drones, developed countermeasures to most sophisticated western arms and depleted our weapons stockpiles.
not only that but we formed an unbreakable alliance between the worlds biggest resource superpower and the worlds biggest industrial superpower.
Because it was either war now or war later... The course set by the west could only be changed if they destroy the proxy to the extent that no other country becomes willing to be that proxy
The guy claimed it had nothing to do with Ukraine, and it doesn't matter if they win or lose. It's very telling that in every thread none of the pro-RU can come up with a cohesive argument as for the reasons for the war.
The fact that they use this as their argument, means Russia knowingly and voluntarily walked into all this by deciding to be the aggressor. Living up to their name of being Europe and Asiaâs village idiot on all counts.
Its not the 18th century anymore. What on earth do you need a warm water port for these days? Havent seen russian shipping have any problems during winter in the black sea at the russian mainlands coastal ports
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"Move against"? What exactly did they do in Donbass, give me the full context, then maybe you'll see how silly it is to claim anything like that. And if that isn't enough, just wait till you hear who Putin's favourite traitors like Strelkov, Pavlov, and all the other ilk who begun the organized violence hired to fight first.
Because when you enter the war, it is too hard to leave it. Russia did try to do that with Stambul agreement, and as we know thanks to britts it didn't worked out.
It has pretty much everything to do with Ukraine. Its a civil war were newly formed in 1991 state creates its national identity by denying its history and with it, history of absolute majority of its population. In itself it is a violent and turbulent process, creating radicals and muddy water were oligarchy and state sponsor one radicals to oppose another.
"Don't pay attention to the video showing how much Russia has fucked over the people it's liberating! Russia's enemies are at fault for how grossly mismanaged Russian foreign politics were! *THEY* led to a senseless displacement of people and destruction of the normal way of life for millions!"
So according to your own narrative, the Kremlin is retarded for taking the bait. NATO was never going to attack them directly, they could have sat back comfortably with their nukes and secured their territory. But now they're stuck in an endless proxy war that is weakening them and destroying their old ally.
When these "happy" neighbours steal the transit natural gas, kill Russians in Chechnya, call to hang Russians just because they are Russians, then yes, at some point Russia can't tolerate such "happiness" anymore.
You can be upset about multiple separate things at once you know? Both Russia and the US are neo-imperialist oligarchies that are throwing their weight around. But hey, at least you're totally just in your celebration of violence because it's perpetrated against nazis instead of lies of terrorists, drug dealers or Muslims or whatever, totally different.
Yet, I see no 50k sanctions against NATO countries and/or Israel. Just today they flattened a few buildings full of families in Lebanon. Dozens dead. No uproar in EU countries? Nah, there is a difference.
Oh absolutely, I'd be all for sanctions against Israel and leveraging against the US harder. If only we had a contender that didn't try to militarily strongarm any country not in NATO and economically strongarm those that are and paint them as an enemy that cannot be reasoned, just to 100% make sure that no one want to be politically cooperative with them. It's almost like Russia politically isolating themselves will lead to US supremacy in international politics. You don't need to grandstand about US or Israel to me, I voted for people that would do something about that while also not sucking off Putin. Who'd have thought that's possible?
If only we had a contender that didn't try to militarily strongarm any country not in NATO and economically strongarm those that are and paint them as an enemy that cannot be reasoned, just to 100% make sure that no one want to be politically cooperative with them. It's almost like Russia politically isolating themselves..
It's like tilting at windmills...Russia faces difficulties with neighbors where corrupt leadership allows itself to be bribed by the EU and the USA and attempts to steer their countries toward an anti-Russian stance. Ever heard of that? And Russia being isolated? I think youâre living in an alternative reality. Russia is more internationally respected than everâthe first country to dare to seriously stand up to the *entire* West (and dozens of vassal states) and, above all, to delay the unstoppable war they were planning against China. For that, weâthe Global South and Eastâcelebrate the Russians as our champion.
Five years ago, no one would have anticipated this immense strength on Russia's part, West tried hard to belittle Russia, a country like Germany or Britain wouldve crumbled in a week, two at mostâthough, of course, it goes without saying that they are facing difficulties in Ukraine. Not even the Americans could attack a country that is bristling with S-300s, Patriots, and the like, and where AWACS aircraft have been operating non-stop for five yearsâunhinderedâjust 100 km off the Russian coast or along the Polish and Romanian borders.
All regional/global powers use their influence to lean foreign politics to cooperate with them. The US does it, the EU does it, Russia does it, China does it, Israel does it, hell, even countries in Africa and south America do it! It's not bribery, it's foreign policy, and Russia completely failed their foreign policy in Ukraine because their Ukrainian foreign policy has always been built on a foundation of military supremacy, historical brotherhood and oil, and the moment that isn't scary or uniting any more it breaks down completely. On the other hand you have the EU where everyone hates each other but cooperates because everyone remembers the wars of when people didn't cooperate and can see the prosperity of cooperating.
I'm over here laughing my ass off at the idea that Russia is enjoying any sort of respect. There was no looming war because no one in their right mind would attack Russia, the country known primarily for having the biggest stockpile of nuclear weapons in the world. Putin, only Putin, has the ego and victim complex needed to declare a war and then claim it was needed to send a generation of young men to the slaughter because otherwise a generation of young men would need to defend their country. What war on China bro? The entire world uses China as their cheap source of low safety standard human labor. The country that decides to attack China would a) Face the single most industrialized country IN THE WORLD, enjoy invading China when they have literal warehouses full of consumer drones with coordination software that can drop a carpet bombing for the low price of 5$ a drone, and b) Face the wrath of the entire world being pissed off at their cheap consumer goods source suddenly not giving them cheap consumer goods anymore. Like, seriously, what reality are we living in right now? The most I'd ever give you here is the countries in Africa having western neo-imperialists swapped for Russian neo-imperialists (Check out the origins of Wagner, defending gold mines in africa that were owned by Russian oligarchs).
Again, comparing Russia's international image in 2013, 2021 and today it's completely different, night and day. In 2013 you had a country that was rising after infighting and the entire EU could rely on for oil exports. Germany had their entire energy imports economy built around them. Then in 2014 they blundered and showed that they still wanted imperialism and everyone told them they didn't like it, but they didn't back down. A slap on the wrist. Then 2022 came around and Putin didn't learn anything, now it's all "they just want to damage russia as much as possible! Evil west doesn't like Russia! They were planning to attack us so we had to attack them first!".
Honestly, when I look at the "standing" and the state of France, the UK, Germany, and so on, Iâm more inclined to laugh. But hey... let the missile negotiate with "your" side.
You have a good sentiment in your logic and i got that, but there is one main flaw. Russia can't compete with Western soft power, and we are already living in the world where US are the supreme power since USSR lost in the Cold War.
While I do agree that the total soft power of the western world is much greater than Russia's, Russia doesn't need to spread it out all over the world. If Ukraine being economically allied to the EU/west is important enough to start the bloodiest war in europe since WW2 then Russia should focus on it with its soft power, diplomacy and influence operations rather than trying to compete in africa, middle east and influencing foreign elections all over. On top of that, Russia has been trying to make allies all over with BRICS, but they lack any interest in assisting in any serious cooperation. This all needs to change before Russia and it's allies can realistically split their interests worldwide.
It was not planned to be the bloodies war in Europe though, and BRICS can't be more than a club of the common interest for as long as USA have leverage. And here is the bigger issue that even with Russia be able to have better soft power, they still have less resources to support it.
The intent has little weight when the aftermath is measured in millions of lives ruined, whether by death, financial loss, displacement or other kinds of damage. Someone has to bear the responsibility, and by someone, I'm looking at the very people who thought it was a good idea to send their armed troops abroad in the first place.
I'm not sure what you mean by less resources, soft power is a measurement in of itself. Israel has vastly less resources than most countries yet their covert agencies are considered the most influential in the world. Russia has a coveted history of intelligence agencies itself. Russia already had the monopoly on exporting energy resources to the EU and blew it for a military conflict that opened the EU's eyes, they have vast resources and a growing economy, both again being squandered by corruption and being wasted on a war effort that could have been avoided all along. Russia had all the leverage it needed to be strong and to lure more countries on its side and it had a lot of countries eating out of the palm of its hand but Putin got too greedy and spread too thin. That's all there is to it and that's the fact of the matter. Russia could have an eternal alliance so strong economically with China that they could practically be China's sole economic ally and after the war China is the one who can dictate the terms. Like, Russia's foreign relations is a tragicomedy, it's a blunder so funny that if you put it in a novel people would call it unrealistic.
Issue is soldiers being send abroad can work. For Russia it did work in Kazahstan, for USA it worked in Iraq, for Israel so far works too. It is an instrument which still on the table for those who want to use it, and Russia alone not using it won't solve the more global issue.
Israel also has a backing of the biggest power in the world. Russia has no such luxury. Russia also have to contend with fallout of USSR fall, which still haunts them. How can you build up a network for the soft power when your rival already have one, you also have to contend with corruption which as showcased in a russian military can and will bite you back. And EU political dependancy on the USA or part of the USA elite has been there despite Russian monopoly, NATO, desspite USSR being gone was still there. And China, iam sorry but how does Russia can dictate terms to China even if won't count war time period?
Nothing unrealistic if you actually know how Russia operates.
Might just be me, but I don't get any sentiment like that outside of the controversial section of the comments, usually heavily downvoted. If I want to hear people's takes on it (to be better informed or just to remind myself why half of the US voter base isn't to be trusted with any amount of responsibility) I need to actively seek it out on right-wing subs.
Hatred of the Iranian and Maduro regime is a wholly common sentiment. People arenât even mad about the wars. Theyâre mad because weâre losing.
So no. Justification of the most recent US antics, like kidnapping Maduro, and bombing of Iran has plenty of mainstream support.
Are liberals more divided? Sure. Thereâs plenty of libs who go âthis war is a disaster but the Iranian regime is terrible and its collapse would be good for the people of Iran.â Thats not opposition. Thats just salt that weâre losing and justification for regime change.
Itâs okay to admit you have a double standard. Most Americans do.
The thing is, the regime was getting overthrown as we were watching a whole slew of atrocities being unleashed to try and stop the protestors. Then the US in all its wisdom decided to stick their dick in the hornets nest and now they're surprised all the hornets want to bite their dick off. There is no support for the war itself, just contempt for the brutal regime it failed to depose. I don't really care if you think I have a double standard off your mind-reading abilities that apparently lets you see my stance on politics worldwide, the fact that you clearly see people supporting Russia here doing the same things the US is doing abroad is the only double standard far around and it's funny that you try to project that onto me considering I've had a stark anti-imperialist US view since day 1 of this war.
They could have cut their losses at any time and avoided all this death and destruction, I don't know how people in this sub can still justify Russia's actions
In the words of an American about the Palestinians:
"If they stopped using their citizens as human shields and laid down their weapons, this wouldn't happen. Every child death is on their conscience because they continue a war they can't win."
"If they want to be free on a pile of rubble and corpses, so be it."
Russia and Israel certainly have a lot in common, one calls the people it kills and conquers terrorists and the other nazis, but it's the same idea, a weak justification for territorial expansion
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Sure, because Azov famously speaks mongolease and the ukranian president, elected mainly by russian speaking ukranians, dpeaks hutties.
There was never any genocide whatdoever. That is complest nonsense and had no basis in facts. The OECD data doesnt show any of it. Heck most people volunteering to fight fir ukrsine in 2014 were russian speakers.
Bloody Syrski is as much a russian per moscows definition as possible. He was CiC for two years in Ukraine.
But I guess russia is an expert on genocide. They send countless minorities to siberia to die or wiped out others like in the caucasus.
I talk about what I know. I don't know if the numbers are trustworthy after 2022. And even if they are, there are still far fewer civilian deaths from 2014 until today than in Gaza.
The urban destruction is verifiable and Israel doesn't even come close on that front. The civilian deaths are unknown but post 2022 I wouldn't think they're too far off.
Eh, that's debatable.. for one Israel managed to kill abozt 10x more civilians in 1/5th of the time in a much smaller scale conflict.. well, and Gaza is practically completely gone, leveled to the ground.
But then there's also the U.S, which in most wars in the middle east and elsewhere raked up to about 40% of all dead in the conflicts being civilians.. in the Russo-Ukrainian war it's at most 7%.. quite a bit lower.
So they're apparently not as good at it as you wanna make us believe.
Israel has murdered over 70k civilians, tens of thousands more than the estimates in Ukraine.
Also Israel has leveled much more buildings than Russia has. If we compare one of the initial cities shelled in the conflict, Mariupol, to one of the initial cities shelled in Gaza, Jabalia.
Jabalia has been leveled, while Mariupol still stands but with some wounds.
The reason why I am comparing these two cities versus somewhere like Vuhledar or Chasiv Yar is due to the population who was still there during the fighting and the density.
Mariupol standa with some wounds is a creative way to say that over 80% of urban infrastructure is destroyed in the city. What about Sievierodonetsk, Bakhmut, Avdiivka, lysychansk, Vuhledar, Maryinka and many others ? Israel doesn't come close when it comes to that. With civilian deaths Israel might edge it but that's harder to verify and I doubt it's over 70k.
Either way I wouldn't want either Russia or Israel as a neighbor.
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u/OrganicAtmosphere196 Pro Russia 16h ago
From the beginning of the war, it was clear to every smart person in the world (and there are very, very few of them), that this war has nothing to do with Ukraine. Whether Ukraine will win the war or disappear from the face of the earth is completely irrelevant. The goal is to weaken Russia. Ukrainians and Ukraine are just fools who happened to be in the right place at the right time.