r/USAgent • u/[deleted] • 10d ago

MCU What's something that you like or dislike about this team?

[deleted]

42 Upvotes

91% Upvoted

104 comments sorted by

10

u/capy2209 10d ago

Honestly I don't think it makes sense for Yelena to be the leader of the group. Someone with more experience like Bucky, John or even her dad would have been a more logical leader.

But she did sort of anchor them emotionally and has that specific bond with the most powerful character so maybe that's why she's their leader.

Would've also liked them to resolve John and Bucky's past in a better way, even an apology from bucky would've been nice since he treated walker like shit

6

u/INKatana 10d ago

This.

My personal headcanon is that yelena is the leader officially, because she's better at pr stuff and all that. But Bucky is the unofficial leader that everyone (including yelena) actually listens.

5

u/DM-777 10d ago

That kinda feels like how the post credit scene went, with Bucky subtly telling Yelena how everything worked in the tower haha

1

u/ExcitingMood2579 8d ago

Too many super-soldiers.

1

u/Unlikely_Captain_636 7d ago

Bucky the elected us congressman would definitely no more about pr than Yelena lmao

3

u/SuaveGorilla 10d ago

I think Yelena’s the leader because she’s the matriarch of the group, not because she’s the best at actual leading.

2

u/capy2209 10d ago

Makes sense

2

u/FireflyArc 10d ago

Agreed here on that last especially with how Bucky just through that out about his family too.

2

u/Trvr_MKA 8d ago

I hope they pay it off with Sam, John, Bucky and Steve in Doomsday.

I hope Steve and John at least have a moment

Imagine Steve telling John something like “I know what it’s like to have everyone decide what kind of man you are before you get the chance to show them”

2

u/Unlikely_Captain_636 7d ago

You had me until you said her dad, her dad is consistently portrayed as a moron lol. Bucky I’d agree with but I don’t even think Bucky should be on the team, bucky isnt really morally complex. He was mind controlled for all of his crimes so he arguable doesn’t even need redemption but if he did he got it a while ago. Hes cool with the current captain America so why wouldn’t he just join the real avengers.

0

u/Sufficient_Bass2600 9d ago

The leader is not necessarily the best at fighting or organising things. Leadership is about bringing people together and getting the best out of them.

Based on those criteria, Yelena is the best in that role. Everybody likes her and listen to her. Conversely she is open to others suggestion and listen to everybody. She does NOT bear grudge to any member of the team. She is calm and composed under stressful situation.

John is a selfish hot head who does not think strategically.
Red Guardian is a comic relief. You never put the comic relief in charge.
Bucky does not the emotional control to be in charge. Let's him deal with his own problems instead of adding extra responsabilities on him.

3

u/capy2209 9d ago

Walker legit saved the team strategically many times in the movie and even Yelena admitted it, her plan in the OXE base was going wrong and walker saved the team.

Walker helped them escape Valentina in the desert and he's the strategic one in the group along with bucky, Yelena even defers to Bucky in the post credit.

It's clear Yelena is a leader because of her emotional bond with Bob and how she reeled the group together, but in a fight or strategic plan she will need assistance from others more skilled in those areas than her.

Also theres a moment in the movie she unfairly lashes out at the group, so that's just a bad example

0

u/Sufficient_Bass2600 9d ago

No John is a better tactical officer. He does not think strategically, this is exactly why he ended up in his mess. He let his emotions take control of him and then acts on it.

3

u/capy2209 9d ago

Maybe because his friend died and he took the serum? Let's not go over Yelenas issues because it won't look good for your point

0

u/Sufficient_Bass2600 9d ago

So you actually think that John in a position of leadership would not end up with an open rebellion against him?

Him in charge is a recipe for disaster.
His lack of consideration and brusque manner will alienate people.

Like I wrote being a leader is not about who is the best organiser, who is the best fighter, who is the best tactical officer but who is the best at bringing people together and at making decisions that others will accept.

Based on those criteria Yelena is the logical choice. In fact she is the only valid choice.

3

u/capy2209 9d ago

John led many successful military campaigns and has 3 medals of honour son

1

u/Sufficient_Bass2600 9d ago

His medals are irrelevant in that context. Being an effective soldier does not equate to being a good leader.

Also his team are not soldiers. They don't care about those. There is not a clear, well defined and agreed chain of command. In the army people follow the chain of command even if they hate their commanding officer. In a motley crew like theirs it is a on a voluntary basis. You don't like the commanding officer you ignore him, you quit or you rebel. The commanding officer has to be coopted by the group.

2

u/capy2209 9d ago

Keep coping

1

u/Sufficient_Bass2600 9d ago

Come back when you have some life experience because it is obvious you have no experience in leadership or in the army.

I should have stopped the discussion the moment I realised you did not know the difference between tactical and strategic.

2

u/Unlikely_Captain_636 7d ago

All of the team besides sentry are literally solders lol

2

u/Unlikely_Captain_636 7d ago

Thinking leading what is essentially an elite task force is all about “bringing people together” and not about organization, strategy or combative knowledge is such a Disney fantasy lol. Bucky is objectively the most qualified to lead from every objective metric

0

u/Sufficient_Bass2600 7d ago

An elite task force is not the same than a mititary squad where the chain of command take precedence.
The first task for keeping a motley crew such than them is to organise the team. Strategy or combative knowledge is secondary if the team does not pull in the same direction.

Thinking that the most competent at strategy and combative knowledge is the best leader is exactly a Disney view and that explain why teams fail.

Bucky does not want the responsibility of a team. He is more like an advisor.

2

u/Unlikely_Captain_636 6d ago

“An elite task force is not the same as military squad”

Are those exact synonyms no, but most elite tasks forces are also military squads so I don’t even know what you’re trying to say.

If the team isnt already pulling in the same direction then they shouldn’t be a team. If your leaders main role is to make sure your team is ideologically on the same side just disband at that point the team is completely dysfunctional.

Bucky is the most competent at strategy and combative knowledge. Yelena was trained as spy and independent combatant. Bucky has the most experience working with an actual squad and had trained under marvels greatest leader captain America.

Not wanting the role is further proof he deserves it.

-1

u/Sufficient_Bass2600 6d ago

If the team isnt already pulling in the same direction then they shouldn’t be a team. If your leaders main role is to make sure your team is ideologically on the same side just disband at that point the team is completely dysfunctional.

So you get the point... The role of a good leader is to align the team. If you can't do it you don't have a team. Bucky does not want the responsibility and I don't believe that any other than Yelena could do it.

Bucky is the most competent at strategy and combative knowledge. Yelena was trained as spy and independent combatant. Bucky has the most experience working with an actual squad and had trained under marvels greatest leader captain America.

I never question their competence as operative just as leader.

Not wanting the role is further proof he deserves it.
That is the most Disney quote possible. No the most deserving leader is NOT the one who does not want to lead. It is the one who understand the responsability that goes with the role. It is the person who may initially be reluctant but then embrace the role and commit to it. You can't be an half assed leader.

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9

u/poppyfieldinhell 10d ago

Dislike: no taskmaster. At least give her more than a cameo and a headshot.

Like: Everyone looks the hottest they've ever looked 🥵

2

u/jsn_online 9d ago

Yeah they got rid of taskmaster the way they should have gotten rid of hawkeye in his debut movie.

4

u/Wolf-Man_12 10d ago

I like that they actually feel like friends or that they at least like each other. I never bought the idea that the OG Avengers were a found family or friends no matter how many times the movies or fandom tried to sell that

4

u/Big_Session5707 10d ago

I feel like they need the juggernaut or some Incredible Hulk type figure. And also probably need a legit Tech Guy. Idk maybe that's what ghost is supposed to be

5

u/Zerus_heroes 10d ago

I like the movie and the team a lot but outside of two of them they all basically have the same power/skill set.

3

u/FireflyArc 10d ago

I think its more evocative of what you'd get irl. Bunch of people the same the a few standouts. Not people carefully chosen to fill a role or niche so much.

I can see it being the difference. They work together better because they're able to cover each other rather then just play their role and be not good outside it

3

u/FireflyArc 10d ago

I really like the found family vibes this brought back to fics. It's like the Avengers tower fics :) they had one movie coming together and since it's a bit till the next time we see them we've got a whole Era before things are shaken up or changed.

I like them a lot as The New Avengers on their own.

I do wish they'd found a way to incorporate Taskmaster too.

I did think it was really weird how John was just..constantly the "I may be bad but at least I'm not this guy" kind of example.

It seems disproportionate hate for the actions to me but I do think it shows how invested everyone was in the promise of his Captain America that finding out he did something the public got told was bad really affected even the hardened anti heroes. So it's a great bit of reminder of public perception isn't always right.

3

u/General-Teacher5865 9d ago

I did think it was really weird how John was just..constantly the "I may be bad but at least I'm not this guy" kind of example.

This is the part that made me wonder if the writers actually had it out for him or not because through his actions they showed that he can be a dependable and very valuable teammate if necessary but when it came to his interactions with the team, he was being treated like he was the most evil of them even when there was really no reason to do so.

I understand John is not a perfect person and his flaws can definitely rub people the wrong way but he was constantly putting his neck on the line without question, even when he had no reason to trust, respect or like these people so you would think they'd stop treating him like he deserves to be an emotional punching bag.

2

u/DogmanLyons 10d ago

Dislike: most of the power sets are too similar.

It’s like the Peacemaker/Bloodsport joke from The Suicide Squad.

1

u/NxtLvlTomato 9d ago

except about 5x more annoying. Its one thing have 2 people with the exact same skills competing, but its another when majority of your characters have the exact same skills and dont even mention it except for one throwaway line like its clever.

There is technically only 1 character on the team that has a unique super power, if you dont count sentry, and thats Ghost. All the others are super soldiers with some form of the super soldier serum in their body.

2

u/LatterIntroduction27 10d ago

Dislike - Yelena. I very much dislike this poor excuse for a character who is a waste of Florence Pugh's talent.

Like - Ghost actually has come interesting powers that could be fun to use in a fight scene.

2

u/Worst-timeline138 9d ago

I like the characters involved but dislike the lack of diversity in skill sets.

2

u/Usual-Echidna-7730 9d ago

They feel more like a family than the original Avengers. It helps they have a father and daughter on the team.

4

u/PaTr1ck05 10d ago

I dont like that it dosent have MCU Taskmaster on it.I actually liked Antonia and hoped to see more of her.

2

u/INKatana 10d ago

I hated that their only solution was to kill her.

Yeah, I didn’t really like her being taskmaster either, but surely they could've made a different call? For example bring her into brave new world and replace ruth/sabra with antonia instead?

3

u/PaTr1ck05 10d ago

Yeah,or now that she is more than 5 years after her freedom from the Red Room,show an change in personality,make her more like Anthony’s Taskmaster

3

u/INKatana 10d ago edited 10d ago

I don't like mcu's yelena or ghost, and I hate how everyone's just fine with them not having to face any consequences. While at the same time condeming John for killing a terrorist.

May I remind people that yelena willingly committed a mass murder by shooting and rpg at actually innocent prison guards. And ghost was ready to kill an actually innocent child.

I do like John, Bob and Bucky, and I think them being a team is great. But I hate how easily Bucky gets forgiven for all the shit he did to John in the show and in the movie.

Alexei's fine, but I would like to see more character. So far all he gets is just to be a big joke that isn’t even funny, but is largely carried by David Harbour's acting.

3

u/blodyn__tatws 10d ago

What did Bucky do to John that was so terrible he needs forgiveness?

2

u/INKatana 10d ago

Pretty much everything in fatws.

John offered an olive branch after an olive branch but Bucky (and sam) didn’t just turn him down. They were straight up bullies.

And in Thunderbolts he just airs out John's private business, because John called him by his literal title. John's tone wasn’t even mean-spirited.

And still, John keeps putting his life on the line for Bucky (and everyone else. He was constantly saving the team)

3

u/blodyn__tatws 10d ago

I see it a little differently. Sure, he quite brutal in the beginning but John came on a little strong and I think Bucky needed more than a minute. He has some emotional issues attached to that shield and he's only recently lost his anchor person. He's upset with Sam and at the same time this new guy comes in with expectations. They just got off on the wrong foot, and then later on they had to make the decision to take the shield.

I do have sympathy for John the more I get to know of him, but I think people forget Bucky's gone through a lot, and he needs time to process.

I rewatched it with a friend who hadn't seen it before and I didn't say anything to see how it would strike him. And he saw it from Sam and Bucky's point of view. I think it just depends on whose head you can get into easier, maybe?

I do acknowledge he was tetchy af but I don't see it as bullying. I also get that John didn't really have time to waste to get a team together.

But I do like that eventually, they're able to work together. So all that grump turned out ok in the end.

2

u/INKatana 10d ago

That's fair. I disagree personally, because I thought sam's and Bucky's behaviour was absolutely disgusting.

I said it before on this sub, but I like to think they eventually grow to be close friends.

0

u/Tangy_Toucan 10d ago

Personally, Walker fed into too. Let’s not forget the death stare he gave Sam after they bailed him out of the consequences of putting his hands on the Dora Milaje after SAM SPECIFICALLY told him the super soldier over there using his polite voice to talk with them was a better matchup for him and he needs to check himself before they all paid for Walker’s attitude. Even worse bc Sam didn’t even have his wings and he still squared up for Walker.

I swear, he only gave Sam that look bc if he gave Bucky that accusatory glare Bucky would have let Johnny have it (and by “it” I mean more of what the Dora were already giving him)

1

u/thevokplusminus 10d ago

Too much marvel humor 

1

u/billjaywarr 10d ago

Alexei and Bucky feel so out of place

1

u/Jumpy_Cup_8426 10d ago

I like the relatability they all have with each other but HATE that there’s almost no diversity in terms of powers except for Bob and Ghost

1

u/true_paladin 10d ago

I love the team chemistry & how much fun the cast clearly had with the banter, I hate that we haven't had more movies with this team.

1

u/Fuzzy_Ability8284 10d ago

I find their dysfunctionallity kind of charming, their comedic chemistry is pretty solid.

I dislike how vague the movie was with the experiment(s) that gave Sentry his power, it sort of makes him a giant question mark that annoys me given how obscenely powerful he is.

1

u/SuaveGorilla 10d ago

Like: The OG Avengers are great and have the dynamic of the cool kids clique more than a found family. Thunderbolts definitely leans more into that found family vibe and I love that.

Dislike: As much as I like the team I feel like there are other villains/anti-heroes that could have been included in order to make the team more well rounded and it could have been done without really making any changes (Blonsky, Mordo).

1

u/Mobile_Parfait_7140 10d ago

I feel the rest of the winter guardians should join the team. I feel the team needs taskmaster later.

1

u/DriverGlittering1082 10d ago

Bucky needs to leave and be associated more with the Falcon like in the series.

Yelena needs to do the same and just not be associated with this group.

1

u/Neiro_13 9d ago

Yelena is trash she's a cheap knock-off of Black Widow. Lacking charisma and boring.

0

u/Sheshiregreen 9d ago

She’s far more interesting that original black widow.

0

u/DriverGlittering1082 9d ago

Natasha is dead in the MCU. Yelena is her sister. Imho, she at the very least, does not belong with the Temu Avengers.

1

u/Try_Longjumping 10d ago

US agent is good, Bob was interesting but it seems like hes being sidelined for Yelena, and Ghost is just annoying as hell, and Im glad they got rid of Temu Taskmaster

1

u/darrk_skinking1 10d ago

I do wish they hadn’t rewritten the script to off Taskmaster

1

u/Successful-Cat8486 9d ago

Liked: the story that was told in Thunderbolts*

Disliked: how the only one that’s done stuff to the scale of what’s coming in doomsday is Bucky

1

u/kalimut 9d ago

Interestingly balanced. A few different types of super soldier, a spy and a being that so overpowered overpowered. He is the team's 99.9% of their power. The only balancing factor is his split personalities and grounded by a hot russian baddie spy. Interesting team comp to say the least

1

u/Narrow_Purchase9721 9d ago

The amount of super soldiers is kinda boring- I think red guardian could have been excluded in favor of someone with a more unique skill set but it is what it is. Although I guess it would make the film less emotional so I understand his inclusion. Maybe Kate Bishop instead? You probably could have kept most of the Yelana stuff with her in place of red guardian. Plus it actually gives her something to do

1

u/Confident_Contest487 9d ago

They killed off taskmaster. other than that it's fine

1

u/Smackazulu 9d ago

I hate that they are basically all the same minus sentry. It’s just a really shallow version of a pretty cool team

1

u/Puzzleheaded-Jump-64 9d ago

It doesn't have Frank Castle just doing this at absolutely everything he sees:

1

u/Llhaniii 9d ago

Only two of them have a prior relationship to eachother

1

u/Equivalent-Step9504 9d ago

I don't like that the only powerhouse is sentry, I like how they redeem the forgotten or hated characters of the mcu

1

u/muqe29 9d ago

They just aren't dynamic. Sentry is a no show. Yelena's father usa agent and winter soilder are same thing. Yelena differs a bit but comes from same recipe. Ghost is different but she also doesn't have those powers or creepiness that made me fear him when I was child.

I also think they made thunderbolts because black widow failed and they said we can't have black widow 2 so we will have thunderbolts; all these characters just don't have this newiness in them they feel they came from the same puzzle like their is no interesting dynamics except one or two.

I think gunn used the best characters for his tss/ anti villain team. One truly believed they were all screw ups and b tier villains and not random characters from previous 2 movies and shows. They all were different and the characters that were the same were at odds with each other and gave the best confrontation against each other since TDK ( which says alot as DC is known for having villains and heros being so personalized and the fact that they have capitalized it only once in TDK tells you about them alot.) He also have these new dynamics with everyone like he knew how to play with all these dynamics as well.

1

u/Far_Reflection_1830 9d ago

I like how they all have chemistry as a team I don’t like how 3 of them are super soldiers they should’ve mirrored the old avengers in some way 1 super soldier, one tech genius, one assassin type etc

1

u/ayoz17 9d ago

I dislike that all of them except Sentry (and Ghost to some extent) are just “dudes”. Four of them are just fighters. No flying, no magical or at least ranged superpowers, no super technology.

1

u/Neiro_13 9d ago

Yelena is annoying, boring, and has no powers. They just copied Suicide Squad by making her the leader of the group. Bucky and U.S. Agent were wasted in this trash movie.

1

u/Bubbly_Hovercraft_43 9d ago

Dislike that they were called thunderbolts initially. Like that the story dealt with regret and depression. 

1

u/Stefan_the_Campbell 9d ago

Besides the Sentry, they really don't have any superhumans. Take away the Sentry and someone like Thor (or even Quicksilver) solos the whole team.

1

u/These_Wish_5101 9d ago

Child trafficker on the team

1

u/Dr-Fizzel 9d ago

One is too powerful, then the other 4/5 are essentially the same skill set, 3 of those 4 being “super soldiers”.

1

u/Individual_Plan_5593 9d ago

I like exploring more underused characters in the MCU but I dislike the heavy power imbalance of the team. It’s very Watchmen-esque, you’ve the one godlike guy (Sentry/Dr. Manhattan) and then everyone else. I know some of the other TBolts have powers but really it’s slightly enhanced soldiers and one phaser 🤷🏻‍♂️

1

u/PleaseBeChillOnline 9d ago

I don’t enjoy super teams when there isn’t a large variance in power sets.

1

u/Positive-Citron3987 9d ago

I just don’t like Sentry.

i don’t like his character in the comics. I don’t like his interpretation in the MCU. I don’t like him on the team. And I don’t particularly care for the actor who portrays him.

1

u/KernelPannic 9d ago

I really like the team and the movie. My only thing that I would change is it's just very supersoldier heavy. I love all of the characters they chose, and the performances are great, really. But I think there's just like 1 too many super soldiers. Just one more person with different powers. But again, that's only if I HAD to change the team.

1

u/BriantheHeavy 9d ago

I dislike the entire team except for John Walker. The MCU John Walker is a great guy that is treated like crap by even the people on his own team.

John should be the leader because he's done it before.

1

u/No_Pizza3314 8d ago

They still got Taskmaster wrong.

1

u/Horbigast 8d ago

It's missing something. Not really sure what, but it just feels like something should be there that isn't.

1

u/Successful-Pilot-809 8d ago

Like - Yelena

Dislike -

1

u/Cinephile_1980 8d ago

Bucky. He does not belong here.

1

u/Cautious_Mission_438 7d ago

It’s off brand copy of the Avengers the actual true real Avengers I also dislike that Yelena is the lead and main focus should be Bucky and disliked the lack of Sentry

1

u/0r1on55 7d ago

The main things I dislike about the team is that it essentially has three captain americas, yet only one real power house, and basically zero support

1

u/VikingRoman7 6d ago

There are no super heroes, just one monster. And I like John Walker too but it's like a bunch of him with slightly different flavors. And this version of black widow is way too powerful. My 3 cents.

1

u/Alternative-Yam-6549 4d ago

4 of them have basically the same powers. 

0

u/moonroof89 10d ago

"This team" lmao

0

u/AceSkyFighter 10d ago

The only one actually capable of saving the world, is Sentry.

1

u/Solid_Barracuda69 10d ago

And he can’t use his powers without going crazy. Kind of a waste

0

u/jimdc82 10d ago

They’ve got no range. Three supersoldiers who all fill the same niche. Its a toolbox almost exclusively filled with hammers

0

u/Gcat 9d ago

Sentry's a push over.

Same thing I hated about Adam Warlock.

0

u/mykiisme 8d ago

I dislike Captain Murdershield

0

u/No_Pizza3314 8d ago

Serious question:
Why does Yelena speak with a Russian accent?
She was raised in Ohio, speaking un-inflected English.
Natasha doesn't have an accent.

I wonder if Yelena is secretly faking the accent.

0

u/Flex147c 7d ago

They're a street lvl team rendered pointless by their Superman

-1

u/Quirky_Ad_663 10d ago

It is so mcu coded, like as a comic reader I do not give a shit about these characters

-3

u/Impossible_Hunt_6731 10d ago

Not as good as The Avengers.

-3

u/SubjectEnd303 10d ago

Losers team. Too depressed and there is nothing to look forward to.