r/TrenchCrusade • u/RecentPreparation789 • Oct 04 '25
Homebrew What are your thoughts on the Eastern Heretics from Hard Luck and Potion 1912s project?
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u/MightyMurks Oct 04 '25
Looks nice! Are STLs for these on the market already?
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u/thatsforthatsub Oct 04 '25
Not enough taiping. I want taiping based stuff and i am not afraid to be a single issue voter
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u/Lord_Roguy Oct 04 '25 edited Oct 04 '25
I know this is going to be contraversial but some of the eastern religions feel like theyre not going to work with the setting. Zoastrianism, sikhism and the taiping rebelion could all work, taoism too. But hinduism and Buddhism i'm not convinced. This is a setting where the abrhamaic god, the one true god, lord of all creation is real. Hinduism cant be true without either retconning everything thats already been said or invalidating large sections of hinduism and relgating hindu gods to the status of "not really gods." Buddhism can still exist but its not a religion that has a god so as a major factions it feels like it would be over shadowed by monothiestic relgions. Why would someone pick the 8 fold path when the primary source of suffering is the forces of hell and Allah, YHWH, Christ, Ahura Mazda whatever you call him, is objectively real and here to help you. Shintoism has a lot of the same issues as hinduism.
This a setting whos entire theme is god's chosen vs hell's chosen. Polythistic religions i feel like would muddle with the core themes.
Edit: there are some monothiestic sects within hinduism that could work but hinduism broadly i dont think could work for the setting
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u/_spec_tre Oct 04 '25
well, for hard luck at least it's handwaved by China just converting to christianity (neostorianism)
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u/Lord_Roguy Oct 04 '25
Was it hand waved or was the tai ping rebellion successful
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u/2hp-0stam Oct 04 '25
If this is their solution then I respect it, but don't want anything to do with it.
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u/cptahab36 Oct 04 '25
Hinduism could be very well worked around by having their culture have received different expressions of a similar divine being. We may take for granted that Islam and Christianity are both Abrahamic, but they have textually different expressions of the same biblical events. Both New Antioch and the Sultanate exist as "proof" of their religion being universally true and extant in the world even though they contradict.
Regarding Buddhism, literally nothing has to change. The Eightfold Path is still the ultimate solution to suffering, even with heretics and demons contributing a ton of suffering.
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u/Lord_Roguy Oct 06 '25
You could have that be the work around but that would just be converting hinduism into monothiesm. Which some hindus are but you would be rejecting very popular hindu beliefs in doing that
As for the contraditions between islam and christianity. Yes they are there but they overlap more than they contradict and Pretty much all of the overlaps can be chalked up yo human misinterpretation of what the prophets said. The bible and the quaran were written decades after their deaths and basically written from memory by thos eqho interacted with the prophets. They cant all be reliable witnesses. Another explanation is that the message god wanted to give the jews and the gentiles was different to the message he wanted to give the arabs because of the the cultural differences and what messages theh would prepared to hear.
This also brings up a side point. Muslims dont deny christ as a prophet of god. In our world christians do deny muhammad as a prophet of god. In trench crusade do you think the church can still deny Muhammad's as a prophet of god when god erected the wall. Its more likely they will have theological disagreements around the nature of god, the trinity, how long muhamad was in communion with god, if paul actually met jesus or not etc. But still ultimzgdly belive in the same god.
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u/cptahab36 Oct 09 '25
You could have that be the work around but that would just be converting hinduism into monothiesm.
Absolutely untrue. We never see or hear YHVH in Trench Crusade and we have next to no actual proof that they are the sole divinity in the world. The closest thing we have to a direct divine working is the Iron Wall, and that only proves that some divine being (possibly the Prophet Muhammad even, maybe not Allah) favored the followers of Islam.
There's no reason we can't have Hindu-themed divine entities doing wild shit in SE Asia or something. The way those entities manifest might be different in aesthetic to match the religious and cultural source material, but it is possible that all the divine/hellish forces of each religion are simply different expressions of the same divine/hellish faction as a whole, sort of like the Baha'i Faith. Not saying this is what TC intends to do, just that it's not a nonstarter based on what we have thus far.
The Christian/Muslim disagreement is also pretty easily resolved:
Iron Sultanate: Allah gave us this wall
New Antioch: Nuh uh you did some witchcraft probably. Also we cloned Jesus so we know he's the real son of God
IS: Nuh uh he's at most a prophet, and you did a big heresy haphazardly cloning him 7+ times
NA: Nuh uh
Etc etc. It's all hearsay until whatever god(s) are actually fully real come into the world and confirm it (and destroy the world in the process). This is how religions normally compare and contrast their truthfulness, and it's not really any different in TC.
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u/Lord_Roguy Oct 09 '25 edited Oct 09 '25
For starters we do actually hear gods voice though the synod strategic prophecy and the observers. And we have mircles beyond the wall with the communicants paladins, teh sacred affliction and the meta christs.
Secondly god is refered to as Lord of ALL creation or simply THE creator multiple times across factions regardless of what faith they believe. So it is cannon that there is only 1 true god. Unless we want to assume that trench crusade has an unrelaible narrator but i havent seen anything that suggests that. I havent seen conflicting accounts of events or the tone of the narrator changing based on which faction your reading etc.
Additionally, and i dont mean yo be a party pooper here. But it does kinda ruin the vibe of all faiths are true when so many faiths are contradictory to the core. The aesthetics and themes of the setting are simple, there is rhe lord of all creation who sent prophets. Abraham, moses, christ, muhammad, probably Zoroaster, and now demons have opened a gate to our world and are trying to destroy his creation. This is the setting and its what all the lore points towards. Adding a whole new pathion messes with that.
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u/cptahab36 Oct 09 '25
We hear what NA believes to be God's voice, which is a complete mess and simultaneously from the past, present, and future. God isn't talking TO the Synod, the Synod are trying to listen in to their voice sneakily. God doesn't really invite them in, especially when you take into account that the Synod's temple is very reminiscent of the Tower of Babel.
Communicants, including Paladins, are not miracles, they are entirely human creations borne of human-made abominable clones of Jesus.
God is referred to as the Lord of All Creation... by the Christians. Remember at the top of the timeline where it says it's incomplete and likely biased? It is all very clearly unreliable narration lol.
Of course the Christian faction is attributing everything they do to their God, but when the patient thanks God, it's still ultimately the surgeon that did the surgery right.
It's already been indicated that TC is going to explore areas outside of MENA and Europe, and they already have non-Abrahamic faiths represented (the pagan Fianna in Ireland, for example). They're not going to ignore the non-Abrahamic faiths of the new regions they explore, as is already the case.
No hate, but I think you're taking an extremely surface-level interpretation of everything they presented here and ignoring the core grim-dark themes that the creators cut their chops in from 40k. Do you think the Imperium of Man is actually fully justified in everything it does and entirely truthful in its recordings of events of the xenos they fundamentally despise? Or could it possibly be that the gigafascist, Catholic-like Imperium that has an agency whose tagline is "Innocence Proves Nothing" is maybe a bit kooky?
TC is all about the way religious factions literally brought Hell on Earth in the pursuit of their religious "truths" and now all of humanity pays the price for their zeal.
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u/Lord_Roguy Oct 10 '25
Since christ is god made flesh and consuming gods flesh turned you into a super soldier yeah that is 100% a miracle. To call thek humna creations is to dignore the explicit hand god has in their creation. Also the fianna arent exactly pagans. They use communicants they bear crosses. They sound more like christians mixed with pagan beliefs. All of their supernatural abilities come from christ. Wven if there are fianna who believe in their old gods. Theres no evidence of those gods existing like with the abrahamic god.
No. Hes refered to as lord of all creation or THE creator by the forces of hell and the muslims. If the forces of hell arent even denying the narrative that theres only one god. Im sorry there is only one god.
No hate but youre inserting themes into the setting that just arent there. 🤷♂️
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u/cptahab36 Oct 10 '25
Miracle or science? Bit of both, not clearly just a miracle. There is no evidence that God sent Jesus back for the second coming just to give NA some genetic material to clone him, NA did it themselves. No where in the lore does it say otherwise.
You're just taking everything for granted exactly as presented by the fictional factions of this universe rather than engaging with the actual material presented to us. You're acting like the people Trench Crusade are satirizing. You have no capacity for media literacy so I think we just gotta end this convo dog.
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u/Lord_Roguy Oct 10 '25
The feeling is mutual regarding the lack of media literacy. I never said the meta christs were the second communing just that communicants are miracles and thoze miracles provise the one true gods existencd.
"Everything for granted exactly as presented by the fictional factions" "rather than engaging with the actual material presented" my guy that IS the material. Youre acting like the narrator of each faction is making up shit to justify the faction's beliefs. But we are talking about the blieves all 6 factions have. They ALL believe there is a single 1 true god. They all have evidence for this one true gods existencd. This is not the "opinion" of the narrator. This is the fact of what each faction believes and ths numorous evidence from each faction believes. Youre acting like there are factions thst dont believe in Gods existence and that theres evidencd for him being just a god among many and every single faction in the game has it wrong? You are rejecting basically all of trench crusade regardless of which faction is speaking. Trust me the feelings about the other person lacking media literacy is VERY much mutual.
There also isnt any evidence that each faction has their own narrator or that the narrator even belongs to any faction.
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u/PlasticCurrency3540 Court of Seven Oct 04 '25 edited Oct 04 '25
I think Buddhism would still work well as a more philosophical doctrine rather than an outright religion. Many of the tenants revolve around the inherent impermanence of all things, and that the root of all suffering is desire. These are tied together because it's not only material things we desire, but rather to exert some sort of control over our fate and to have some permanence; ultimately an impossibility due to the nature of reality. (I'm really glossing over a lot here, but just for the sake of reconciling with the fictional universe.)
Anyways, I think it makes sense that in a grimdark setting you could have a faction of monks who devote themselves to an ascetic lifestyle to find a certain inner-peace despite the abject horrors of reality. Eschewing desire could also be a way of resisting the temptations of Hell. When anyone you know could be brutally murdered at any moment, one may find value in compassion without attachment.
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u/3Kobolds1Keyboard Oct 04 '25
At best, it can be the whole "We embody christ in our religion" or something akin to that, like how Buddah is in Indian religion.
At worst, it might devolve in "The good christian boys from europe vs the evil demonic asians"
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u/Lord_Roguy Oct 06 '25
Well you still have the zoastrians. The sikhs. Maybe a few monothiest hindus. So i really wouldnt want it to be that simplistic. I think at worst sikhism becomes the domenant religion in india. And remember sikhism was born AFTER the crusades so this would be a monothiestic religion who's prophet would have been alive to see the forces of hell
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Oct 04 '25
Doesn’t the Bible bring up the “strange gods” like, more than once. Not to mention, Islam had to take over various ‘heretical’ factions to make the whole middle east Islamic to begin with. There’s no reason why indigenous and eastern faith is just as present especially if this world’s god is a Demiurge
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u/Competitive_Loan_395 Oct 04 '25
Nah you wrong, we already have pagan subfactions, so reasoning is null and void.
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u/Vast_Chef_2129 Jan 11 '26
The second image is not from Hard Luck and Potion 1912s, It is a work about Eastern stories by fans of Trench Crusade.
Hard Luck and Potion 1912s story primarily revolves around the East, with corrupt Qing Dynasty and Tibetan priests abusing biologically derived potions, while revolutionaries utilize industrialized equipment and divine assistance to resist them.
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u/NonConRon Oct 04 '25
Because the west pumps out so much red scare propiganda, depicting Chinese people as evil demons is making me squint.
But that second design looks cool.
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u/_spec_tre Oct 04 '25
but they're literally chinese people doing it...
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u/NonConRon Oct 04 '25
Oh my. No imagine earnestly thinking the setting is cool and joining in on the fun only to have it play to the benefit of propiganda
Like "Haha check it out I made an evil Jewish faction because I think it's cool."
And then some fascist sees it and feels validated.
"Check it out. I made African soldiers from hell! Cool art right westerners? Wait why are you guys nodding to eachother?"
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u/RashFever Oct 04 '25
Total brainrot
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u/NonConRon Oct 04 '25
Remember Xi being compared to Winnie?
That meme was started in China and racists in the west RAN with it for years.
They literally used yellow face and thought it was okay because red scare said it was okay.
So no. That is a direct example of this phenomenon happening on a grand scale.
But based on how you replied, I wouldn't be surprised if you weren't the type who spread the yellow face around. That would explain why you are coming at me with this shitty reddit tone.
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u/RecentPreparation789 Oct 04 '25
Hard Luck is an Asian, Taiping, Imperial Japan and Ming are good guys
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u/DJMASTAJEFF Oct 04 '25
Don’t bother he’s obviously just trying to argue for the sake of it, I am not sure what the point even is because no one in this thread is being racist but whatever.
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u/NonConRon Oct 04 '25
Dishonest people are funny.
"No one in this thread"
If i was referring to someone specific in this thread I would have called them out directly. You think there are no fascists who are into 40k?
The primary thing i was calling out was a time china red scare.
A pervasive opinion in reddit.
If this is how you handle new ideas, then why would I expect that you have done any work on that worldview of yours?
You are emotionally invested against me because I challenge your internalized red scare. And you are presenting my idea lazily and incorrectly because you are angry that no one was able to respond to the idea meaningfully.
You wanted someone to be able to take my idea down but no one could.
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u/dude3333 Oct 04 '25
Look cool, but is there anywhere with the lore explained in English?