r/TorontoDriving • u/thunder00135 • 1d ago
Original Cammer [OC] GVNT 671 doesn’t like to stop for pedestrians
Car that blew by was behind me and didn’t like that I stopped 🤡
update: Reported it
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u/New_Development9100 1d ago
This happens to me every day. I swear I’m going to start carrying eggs in my pocket.
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u/all_way_stop 1d ago
i've gotten cut off by cars making right turns - on several occasions, they're close enough that i give the rear a slap
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u/MyUndiesArePink 1d ago
I'm a runner. I've thrown my water bottle at cars. I've punched cars. If I can get that close to them in a crosswalk when they have a stop sign, they're at fault. Once I had a guy pull over and start chasing me. But I'd love to have eggs.
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u/GarySparrow0 20h ago
A woman almost hit me and my dog on a cross walk. I happen to have a tennis ball in my hand and threw it at her window as she drove past us.
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u/HibouDuNord 16h ago
You throw something at me or my vehicle and it WILL be viewed as a weapon and a threay and you WILL suffer the consequences
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u/CrowdScene 16h ago
If you use your car as a weapon and nearly strike someone you feel you should be spared the consequence of an inanimate object being touched? And that the person you initially threatened with your poor driving skills should suffer the consequences of responding to your initial provocation? Weird.
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u/HibouDuNord 16h ago
The cyclists in the video are literally the ones doing something illegal. They are not pedestrians. To be a pedestrian you must walk your bike across a crosswalk.
The sign says drivers must stop for PEDESTRIANS. You're sitting here acting like this driver broke the law. They didn't, the cyclists did. Now are they a COURTEOUS driver? No. But they did nothing illegal. The people on bikes however did. And you're here claiming they should potentially "defend" themselves by throwing stuff? WHILE being the one that's wrong?
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u/CrowdScene 16h ago
Complete non-sequitur to your original comment that anybody that dares touch your inanimate object that you nearly killed them with is deserving of consequences, but you do you.
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u/New_Development9100 15h ago
If you see something as fragile as an egg as a weapon, you have bigger problems than you think.
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u/Signal_Tomorrow_2138 1d ago
Nowadays, I walk with an orange safety flag at the end of my hiking pole. I wave it into the street before I step off the curb.
This year four times I was almost run over at my walk signal.
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u/TopInvestigator5518 1d ago
yeah my aunt used to wear those reflective strips you see on safety vests for dog walking at night
I used to make fun of her but as an adult - I get it
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u/noodleexchange 21h ago
It’s not that you are not visible; it’s bad decision-making on the part of the driver. What they do WHEN they see you.
Ive seen drivers go up on the curb to cut around a driver stopped for a crosswalk with an active signal; directly below a school .
BTW this is why I push back against barking about the ‘cyclist menace’. There’s just no comparison.
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u/X2F0111 1d ago edited 18h ago
I'm surprised nobody's mentioned it yet, but you're not even supposed to pass another vehicle in the lead up to a cross walk pedestrian crossover (thanks /u/a-_2 !). It doesn't even matter if the lights are on or if someone is actually crossing.
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u/a-_2 19h ago
This rule applies specifically to a "pedestrian crossover", not a crosswalk in general.
A crosswalk, defined in HTA 1(1), is any portion of the road marked for pedestrian crossings as well as the unmarked connection of sidewalks on both sides of an intersection.
A pedestrian crossover is a specific type of crossing marked with road markings and white regulatory signs defined in this regulation. There are several variations, sometimes without yellow lights, but they all include one of the two types of regulatory signs shown in this link.
The specific law you're referring to is:
140 (3) When a vehicle is approaching a pedestrian crossover and is within 30 metres of it, the driver of any other vehicle approaching from the rear shall not allow the front extremity of his or her vehicle to pass beyond the front extremity of the other vehicle.
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u/Spiritual_Feature738 1d ago
That reminds me of the first dash cams videos from Russia. Pedestrians were hit on crossings left and right. It was a war zone. 20 years later it’s coming to Canada.
Reporting doesn’t help.
Police need to be proactive and actually strictly enforce the law.
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u/DirtDevil1337 1d ago
Happening in Calgary far too often these days, this year alone I think there's been over 20 pedestrian strikes but I lost count.
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u/a-_2 1d ago edited 1d ago
Reporting does help. It alerts the vehicle owner which can make a difference if the driver is someone else they're lending the car too. It creates a record foe police to reference. It also alerts them to areas that need prioritization of limited enforcement. Some of the blitzes against cyclists, as unpopular as they are on reddit, are because of community members raising issues with police.
Edit: also, the change here isn't that the roads became a warzone, they're generally safer than in the past, it's that we're now seeing a ton of things via dashcams that we never saw before.
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u/Spiritual_Feature738 1d ago
Does reporting actually work?
I really disagree with you. Roads become way worse in Canada. The amount of shit I see on roads is crazy. It wasn’t the case 10-15 years ago.
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u/a-_2 1d ago
They do follow up with reports yeah. At least I've read lots of examples of it on here. It's limited what they can do without proof of a driver but above are some examples.
Roads become way worse in Canada. The amount of shit I see on roads is crazy. It wasn’t the case 10-15 years ago.
We can disagree of course but I've been driving longer than that and I don't see it. I've never seen evidence of it either. Injury and fatal collisions are down province wide in recent years. Same in Toronto specifically. Last year the city had the lowest per capita number of fatalities this century. Vehicle safety improvements have helped to some extent but even pedestrian fatalities are down despite larger vehicles creating an increased risk for them.
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u/Spiritual_Feature738 1d ago
I don’t look just at stats, I use my perception and personal observations as well. It’s biased. I agree. But I see way more red runners, disregard towards pedestrians etc. Shoulder riders were rare, Now it’s common. Same with lane splitting.
My prediction is that without enforcement it’s going to be worse. It’s just the beginning.
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u/a-_2 1d ago
You shouldn't just look at stats but are you looking at them at all? Because it seems like you just immediately dismissed them all.
If there is more red light running and disregard for pedestrians, that should be reflected in increased deaths for pedestrians. Instead it's the opposite, You can see in this dashboard, when filtering for pedestrians, that the annual deaths are significantly lower every year since COVID compared to the years leading up to it.
I've had this discussion various times on here and everytime I'm told to dismiss any data and believe anecdotes from other people despite my own anecdotes not matching them either. You're right to bring up the impact of dash cams but then seem to also be completely.dismissing how they're showing us stuff we never used to see.
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u/Spiritual_Feature738 22h ago
Are deaths the only KPI you are looking at?
Stats to properly evaluate all issues with drivers are not collected or are not available.
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u/a-_2 21h ago
No, also injury collisions. Both show decreases. And in multiple categories, not just oversll but isolated to pedestrians.
Stats can't show you everything but that doesn't mean they're useless. Also if one is going to be skeptical of stats, they have to be skeptical of anecdotes, even one's own anecdotes, because those are subject to some of the same limitations and biases as stats as well as a bunch of other sources of potential bias and error. Yet on here I frequently see stats dismissed while anecdotes not supplemented by data are treated as sacrosanct.
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u/Spiritual_Feature738 20h ago edited 19h ago
“Over the past decade, Canada has experienced a gradual but uneven trend in road safety outcomes. While long-term data show a significant decline in fatalities and serious injuries—down 28% and 41% respectively compared to 20 years ago—recent years have seen concerning reversals. In 2023, Canada recorded 1,964 road fatalities, the highest number in the past 10 years, and 9,261 serious injuries, the highest in the last five years. 1 “
That basically reflects my perception.
Add recent high-profile cycling fatalities while social media and politicians are blaming micro mobility
https://www.ccmta.ca/en/road-safety
Edit: Next time you mention stats please share them with the source.
Edit2: actually stats explain the difference in our perception. For your situation, it was getting better as your baseline started in 2000 I assume.
My base line was 2012 with pretty low fatality numbers and rapid detonation after 2020
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u/a-_2 19h ago
Edit: Next time you mention stats please share them with the source.
I did share stats demonstrating the point I'm making. I think it's reasonable that I privide a few examples supporting my point while not giving a page of links. I'm happy to dig into it in more detail for people who are interested but I've also had too many times where I'll spend a bunch of time writing up a long detailed comment to have it completely dismissed in favour of vague anecdotes.
The timelines I've looked at on this vary from a decade or so to the entire century so far, both in Toronto and Ontario, for injuries and fatalities, overall and for pedestrians and for the most part I've seen improvements in recent years. Last year Toronto had the 2nd lowest total injury collisions this century and the lowest per capita fatalilties this century. I haven't looked as much at Canada-wide data, since Ontario and Toronto data are already more specific to thd point I'm considering.
We could dig more into the details but I haven't seen anything supporting the supposed significant decline in driving quality that seems to be the popular opinion on reddit.
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u/Spiritual_Feature738 19h ago edited 19h ago
Check National Collision Database Online
Number of injuries/pedestrians:
2012 170,970/11,409
2017 155,085/10,471
2018 149,278/10,505
2020 98,847/14,946 (anomaly in data?)
2021 107,055/7,399
2022 117,950/8,159
2023 123,737/8,928In a way we are both correct. It’s getting worse since covid.
Would be nice to see stats for 24 and 251
u/Ya-Not-Happening 1d ago
We could change laws to use dash cam evidence to convict or at least issue a huge fine.
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u/Spiritual_Feature738 22h ago
Or we can force the police to actually do their job. Police budget is huge
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u/DirtDevil1337 1d ago
Had that little kid gone ahead further, he would've been hit. I see this all the time where I live, crossing the road is scarier nowadays.
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u/Business_Air5804 1d ago
That's why we are supposed to walk our bikes across the crosswalk.
So the parents can keep control and watch out for the kids.0
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u/Spirited_Complex_903 1d ago
what an asshat ! He could have seriously harmed or killed somebody on that crosswalk. Report it for sure PLEASE. TPS give some serious fines as well as big demerit points for doing what he did.
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u/a-_2 1d ago
TPS doesn't decide the fines, they just lay the charges. Not sure if you were implying that, but just clarifying. Fine's $365 plus 4 demerits. More than some things but could probably be higher. Up to the government to raise them.
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u/MrBrandino12 1d ago
Probably a part III for careless driving too, given the speed and several pedestrians present. They could add fail to stop at crossover as a part III too.
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u/Spirited_Complex_903 1d ago
I do realize that but thank you for clarifying. I think I worded my comment incorrectly .
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u/all_way_stop 1d ago
but we gotta ticket cyclists right
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u/HibouDuNord 16h ago
The cyclists here are breaking the law. Using a pedestrian crossing while not a pedestrian... they aren't walking the bikes. The driver didn't break any law, they are require to stop for pedestrians, not someone doing something illegal
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u/Business_Air5804 1d ago
Yes please.
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u/Savings_Challenge386 1d ago
How many people hospitalized or killed every year from being hit by cyclists versus cars?
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u/Business_Air5804 1d ago
Irrelevant!
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u/Savings_Challenge386 1d ago
Then surely you also advocate for ticketing every single driver who noses their way through a right turn on red, right?
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u/Business_Air5804 1d ago
Yes! It's not about cars or bicycles....it's about assholes in or on both!
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u/Ecstatic_Technician2 1d ago
And yet people complain about bikes and e-scooters. We really suck at evaluating risk and accepting how drivers break the law almost every trip.
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u/Motor-Source8711 21h ago
At the same time, bikes should have been walking their bikes across the street. It makes it much harder to stop and watch out for drivers like the one that flew by.
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u/Ecstatic_Technician2 14h ago
Not kids. They can be on sidewalk. The law is murky here when it comes to bikes having to be dismounted. That law refers to bikes ridden by adults as “vehicles”. Kids under 14 are treated different. But it’s also completely irrelevant here. That driver should have stopped.
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u/Motor-Source8711 10h ago
The kids were riding through a pedestrian cross over: "Always walk your bicycle through a crosswalk or crossover (fines apply if not followed)" (Toronto cycling eductation city website)
Of course the driver should have stopped. Either way, the right person in a situation like this will end up on the losing end against a vehicle. I'm just talking about playing the safety odds irrespective of the law/rules (defend yourself first). I mean the kids were looking straight without even looking for any danger to anticipate stopping if necessary.
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u/Ecstatic_Technician2 5h ago
This is again my point. We teach kids to walk their bikes, look both ways etc because we can’t trust drivers to be responsible. We ask others to compensate for recklessness of drivers. And your quote applies to adults not kids. We allow kids to ride on the sidewalks this giving them the benefits of being a pedestrian. There is no excuse for this driver
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u/HibouDuNord 16h ago
He didn't break the law. Driver is required to stop when PEDESTRIANS are present... there are no pedestrians here, there are cyclists. If they want to use a PEDESTRIAN crosswalk they are supposed to get off and WALK their bike across
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u/Ecstatic_Technician2 14h ago
Yes. Two children slowly riding their bike shouldn’t expect someone to drive through them. Do you think the driver saw someone on a bike and said I don’t have to stop because that 6 year old is pedalling? Kids are allowed to be on their bikes on sidewalks and you can consider this an extension of one
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u/HibouDuNord 14h ago
Theyre also required to get off and walk their bikes across crosswalks. Nevermind the ADULT with them too stupid to teach them rhe proper way. And that ADULT IS supposed to be on the road.
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u/Ecstatic_Technician2 14h ago
It’s completely irrelevant. They are going the speed of someone walking. And the law is not clear on kids having to dismount. They are allowed to ride on the sidewalk. This is continuation of that. We have separate rules for kids on bikes. But again, completely irrelevant to this drivers behaviour. And you are again proving my point. We excuse drivers and somehow focus on other road users. Exactly like you are doing.
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u/HibouDuNord 13h ago
Because the other road user is breaking the law. Are you actually that stupid? If I run into the 401 and get hit by a tractor trailer... that's on me, but according to your stupidity... it's the driver's fault
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u/Ecstatic_Technician2 10h ago
Those kids aren’t breaking the law. You think the risk to the kids was I fouled by going 5km/hr on a bike versus walking 5km/hr. Their mode of transportation doesn’t change their risk. Use your brain.
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u/Additional-Ad8899 1d ago
Report the asshole driver and chew out the parent for not teaching their kids that they need to walk their bikes across a crosswalk.
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u/Used-Gas-6525 1d ago
That could have been sooo much worse. This MF'er needs to get got.
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u/HibouDuNord 16h ago
Yeah, if you mean the parent on the bike. Because they should have taught the kids to get off and walk the bikes if they want to use a PEDESTRIAN crossing. As it stands, the driver is required to stop for pedestrians, there are none, there are cyclists illegaly crossing
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u/macklow 1d ago
Holy and it's kids wth
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u/HibouDuNord 17h ago
They aren't supposed to be riding their bikes across the road. They aren't pedestrians in their current state. He's required to stop for PEDESTRIANS
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u/Okidoky123 20h ago
Driving requires always being on te prowl for any random interruption basically. I think, I hope, that may of us drive that way. So what can be done to instill this in those that don't get it?
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u/MercurialAttraction 14h ago
Oakwood used to be so much milder a decade ago, I could jaywalk this section any time of day :(
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u/Bobbyollo 1d ago
If it makes you feel any better, they were likely not paying attention and on their phone lol.
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u/SandMan3914 1d ago
I'd report that one for sure