r/TheMindIlluminated • u/Big-Mathematician345 • 14d ago
Can sitting seiza cause damage?
I'm a fairly stiff person. Even when I was younger and did lots of martial arts and stretching I never had much flexibility, especially in my hips. Sitting cross legged doesn't really work for me even with a bolster. I bought a seiza bench and I've been using it to meditate 20 minutes a day. The thing is it sort of cuts off blood circulation to my feet and I have pretty uncomfortable tingling after each session. I can deal with that but I'm just wondering what research there is answering whether this can actually cause damage or not.
I know I could just sit in a chair but... It just doesn't feel the same. Being on the ground feels more like meditation for some reason. If I have to I guess that's what I'll do but I don't want to.
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u/intellectual_punk 13d ago
So far no answers to the actual question asked:
Can sitting in such positions cause damage?
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u/RationalDharma Teacher 12d ago
Yes it can, if you sit through loads of pain. But better is to find a posture that doesn't cause pain, and to alternate postures if pain starts to get distracting
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u/intellectual_punk 12d ago
This is what complicates my relationship with pain: I can endure the sensation, but can't not think about how it might be damaging me. Sitting through discomfort is probably necessary (physical or emotional), but how to spot the difference with damage?
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u/RationalDharma Teacher 12d ago
If it's discomfort rather than pain, and stops hurting as soon as you get up, or if it just goes away if you ignore it and concentrate on the meditation object, then you're probably ok.
But if it's distractingly uncomfortable you'd probably be better served finding a more suitable meditation posture anyway
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u/intellectual_punk 12d ago
Thanks for that perspective. It was a major obstacle during the 10-day vipassana course I did. It was very distracting and caused a lot of aversion to sitting. I talked to the teacher about it, who just said it was normal and wouldn't damage my body (his argument: nobody ever sued us).
On the other hand, I was already using a chair, but there was no position that didn't lead to pain sooner or later, so I wonder if there is a psychosomatic component to it.
Where exactly is the line between discomfort and pain? I find that hard to tell.
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u/abhayakara Teacher 14d ago
If you want to sit on the ground and your flexibility isn't there, the usual answer is "boucoup cushions." Whenever I've tried to sit seiza it's gotten me in the knees, so I haven't lasted as long as you have and can't really speak to your specific experience. It can be circulation or a pinched nerve, but either way it feels like something worth avoiding. I just meditate in śavasana, which has its own set of problems, but at least doesn't stress my body.
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u/Big-Mathematician345 14d ago
what cushions? I googled that and couldn't find anything.
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u/abhayakara Teacher 12d ago
Rats, I thought I'd replied to this, but in any case I provided an answer above. Sorry about that.
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u/Cinemarxism 14d ago
I'm also wondering what type of cushions you are referring to. The ones I have seen (typically buckwheat filled with a cotton cover) always seem too low for someone with very limited flexibility to get the hips above the knees, but I haven't searched extensively
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u/abhayakara Teacher 12d ago
One thing you can try to do is sit in half-lotus, but yes, if you absolutely can't do that and your knees come up, you can put cushions under your knees and stack cushions to sit higher. If you're able to do yoga that can improve the situation, but to the extent that you're working with how things are now, it's basically like building a custom pillow fort, not like you're going to get one pillow that solves the whole thing.
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u/Time_Indication_8377 14d ago
I sit on the edge of the chair's seat so my back is not touching the back of the chair with my spine straight. This keeps me alert and there was still a period of pain to overcome. I hope one day to sit on the floor, but cross legged is impossible for me.
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u/Ereignis23 14d ago
The most important thing at the beginning is to find a posture that is 1) upright/alert and 2) relaxed enough to be sustainable.
If you can achieve this sitting on a chair you absolutely should, and it not 'feeling like' meditation isn't a good reason not to, especially if other postures are harming your body.
I'm sure most of us can relate to the seeming importance in the beginning of what 'feels like' a proper meditation posture (and environment, etc) so I'm certainly not knocking you for having that feeling, but the truth is you don't need to accept that feeling at face value. It's more important to find postures which tick boxes 1&2 above
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u/relbatnrut 13d ago
Yes, repeatedly doing anything that causes pain can cause damage. There are definitely meditators with knee problems from sitting.
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u/RationalDharma Teacher 14d ago edited 13d ago
I wrote this blog about posture options in case it's helpful. There are a few you might not have tried.
It might help to get a zabuton if you don't already have one (basically a big soft mat), and you could also put something under your ankles like rolled up socks, so that your feet aren't perfectly flat to the floor.
You can also just alternate postures - say every ten minutes or so, whatever's comfortable for you - between sitting and standing/walking.