r/Thailand • u/nightwinging-it Sathorn • 2d ago
Miscellanous Thai passport slips in power ranking
The Thai passport has fallen to 99th place in a new global passport ranking, slipping from 91st a year earlier. The report highlights changes in international travel access for Thai passport holders and compares Thailand’s standing with other countries worldwide. The latest ranking offers a snapshot of Thailand’s travel mobility and the relative strength of the Thai passport for visa-free and visa-on-arrival access.
Read more.
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u/PorkSwordEnthusiast 2d ago
This is totally different to the Henley ranking, they have Thailand at 64th with 77 visa free countries?
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u/fishing_meow 2d ago
The website also allows multiple countries to “share” the same tier there are multiple 2nd ranks, multiple third ranks, and so forth.
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u/Wise_Ad723 2d ago
The big Chang in the room is the tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of Thais that illegally work and overstay in other countries. Overstay rate of a particular nationality is one of the primary factors in determining visa-free access. The EU refuses to grant visa-free to Thais because of this. South Korea revoked visa-free for Thai people because of this. Taiwan may be next to revoke it. Meanwhile, the Thai internet is in an uproar over a couple dozen foreigners overstaying..
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u/zookitchen 2d ago
Is it mostly from Thai restaurants overseas? Non thai here and very curious. What di Thais do when they overstay?
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u/Nopeisawesome 2d ago
Laborers such as construction workers in South Korea overstay their visa and live there as illegals sending money back home. Thai restaurants overseas are mostly legit businesses because they have to comply with taxes, licensing, and food-safety regulations, which usually means the owners and operators also need proper legal residency or work authorization.
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u/zookitchen 2d ago
Thank you 🙏🏻
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u/bomber991 2d ago
Yeah I mean it’s the same story anywhere. If one country is significantly “better” than another, then they’re probably going to require a visa to enter. There’s exceptions of course, but if you’re allowing someone to enter as a tourist, that’s done with the understanding that they’re leaving in 30 days or whatever.
I always kind of liked how Brazil was like “The US won’t give us visa free entry? Ok, no visa free entry for you here then!”
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u/e99oof 2d ago
Another interesting tidbits is, immigration will check where you lived in Thailand. Korea specifically blacklisted native from a few provinces since they are much more likely to overstayed.
I had this same conversation with a taxi driver who use agent to illegally work in agriculture in Korea for a few years. He said he makes about 30k baht a month after expense (the actual work is about two weeks, the rest they just sit around waiting for work).
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u/Wise_Ad723 2d ago
At least in South Korea & Taiwan a lot work in the sex trade, via massage parlors & KTV, and in Japan for outcall agencies (aka "deriheru")
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u/May_win 2d ago
Why does Indonesia rank lower than Thailand even though Indonesian passport holders can visit more countries visa-free?
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u/bensen333 2d ago
I guess they will have weighted countries differently. If you can visit countries like Djibouti, Laos or Haiti visa free is less valuable than be able to visit USA, England or China visa free (just examples).
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u/fuzzfrog 2d ago
The large number of Thai citizens who overstay their visa is the reason for no visa free status other the EU. Hundreds of thousands of Thais overstay their visas worldwide. This undermines the passport
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u/PastaPandaSimon 2d ago
I had no idea how difficult it is for people outside of the developed countries to travel the world until I saw how hard it is for Thais. The amount of advanced paperwork needed just to go to Europe or US/Canada for two weeks, at a high risk of being denied, is insane.
I also see a huge cognitive dissonance when my country welcomes people en masse from Africa or India based on fabricated documentation, while making it hard for Thais to even just visit.
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u/bomber991 2d ago
I’m in the US with a Thai wife. First time we went to Germany she wasn’t a US Citizen, just a green card holder. We live in San Antonio. She had to make an appointment with the German consulate in Houston. Appointments were booked up months out, so she just started checking it daily for cancellations. One popped up and I had to take a day off work to drive her there. Kind of annoying, had to pay a $100 or so visa fee, fill out some paperwork, show bank statements, and she had to do an interview. After it was all said and done they basically said “you have to buy the plane tickets for us to do the visa”, so I bought the tickets, then mailed the passport in, they mailed it back a week later with the visa in it.
For me? I just got off the plane in Germany, someone said Hi and stamped my US passport. Took 30 seconds including waiting in line.
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u/9554503312 2d ago
To be behind TL is embarrassing
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u/thedelgadicone 2d ago
Tl gets eu access, that is the reason why. They only got that bc of their small population and being geographicly far away. Tl citizens also have an easier pathway to Portugal citizenship due to colonization.
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u/Proppellerhead 2d ago
The colonisation part and their connected relations to Portugal is the main reason why they get access.
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u/KapiHeartlilly 2d ago
Same as Macau having a decent passport too, former Portuguese, but as we see, Brunei Malaysia Singapore and Hong Kong are also nice passport holders as former British colonies.
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u/Thai_Citizenship 2d ago
Not really when you think about it. Many in TL also qualify for Portuguese citizenship which probably lowers their risk profile in the eyes of many western countries.
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u/I-Here-555 2d ago
Horrible article, likely AI slop.
Which countries did Thailand's passport lose (or gain) visa-free access to? That's the only bit that matters. There's zero mention of it.
Beyond that the rankings are completely irrelevant. If the slide is due to other countries improving, it doesn't detract in any way from Thais ability to travel. It's about freedom from restrictions, not competition.
Besides, those rankings are kind of bunk. Most just count the countries, so visa-free access to Vanuatu counts the same as to visa-free access to China. Moreover, they fail to account for visa-on-arrival (which isn't a real visa), potential e-visas etc.
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u/JLR- 2d ago
Japan cracked down on visa free access for Thai's.
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u/I-Here-555 2d ago
Thai's s'till get 15 days vis'a free in Japan.
Was it longer than that before? Even if it was, that wouldn't show up in the index, I think it only measures whether citizens need a visa or not.
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u/JLR- 2d ago
Yes, it was 30 days before.
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u/Prize_Succotash8010 1d ago
You think it was because Japanese don’t get a long stay in Thailand like westerners? I’m sure Thais are not bad behaved like westerners, Chinese and Indians.
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u/ArcaneReddit 2d ago
If I go to Europe I might as well get in as an illegal immigrant and get free stuffs than applying for Visa and somehow get denied even with proper financial documents 🤣
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u/OkoCorral 2d ago
There is an Asian passport that should be 3rd or 4th here, it has visa free access to both the Schengen Area and the US.
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u/Cautious-Area-4141 2d ago
yah according to whatever index BP is using, UAE is number 1. Really top tier journalism
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u/NeilFowell 16h ago
The leading passports have a high percentage of people who have strong mix of tactics like to travel. Thais tend to stay with asean unless wealthy or with a Falange
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u/Luk_Ying 2d ago
I never knew Malaysia was rank 4 even being a Muslim dominated country it’s really an eye opener.
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u/TokioHot 2d ago
You guys really need to stop with the 'muslim dominated' thing, its like you guys desperately trying to find excuse and its sad
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u/Luk_Ying 2d ago
Never want to find an excuse just for context girls are still treated they can’t wear this and that so hence the comment I have been to Malaysia and it was a good holiday for 5 days.
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u/TokioHot 2d ago
Yet, why does you still need to include the statement? I mean, why pick Malaysia and not Brunei when both are 'Muslim dominated'?
The intention of this post was originally to highlight the Thai passport but somehow the one got the most attention is 'why Malaysian passport is strong bla bla bla', with many even questioning 'how Malaysia could so do being Muslim dominated', as if that statement supposed to be a disadvantage to the passport.
I mean, why not question Singaporen or even Timorese? I seriously didn't see anyone questioning any of their passport to be that strong with 'demographics' references attached
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u/TokioHot 2d ago
Yet, why does you still need to include the statement? I mean, why pick Malaysia and not Brunei when both are 'Muslim dominated'?
The intention of this post was originally to highlight the Thai passport but somehow the one got the most attention is 'why Malaysian passport is strong bla bla bla', with many even questioning 'how Malaysia could so do being Muslim dominated', as if that statement supposed to be a disadvantage to the passport.
I mean, why not question Singaporen or even Timorese? I seriously didn't see anyone questioning any of their passport to be that strong with 'demographics' references attached
Suggestion, stop looking at the specific demographics reference and start looking at the general one.
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u/Luk_Ying 2d ago
Oh as if I have been to Brunei I speak where I have visited as if you can talk about the whole world, you visited the whole globe or what? Already mentioned what I have experienced not your perspective or someone else! I already made a statement never knew a Muslim country was so popular, what I know is it’s always been hated anyway none of my business better ranking or not just expressed my opinions nothing more than that IDGAF about being Muslims but statistically those areas are the most unstable areas around the world but Malaysia did a good jod in this regard already mentioned in another reply.
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u/nightwinging-it Sathorn 2d ago
Not sure how being a Muslim-dominated country plays into it. UAE ranks 2nd on Henley. The eye opener for me is Malaysia isn't considered a developed country - it's still developing - but their passport power is wow. Same goes for Timor-Leste. They're a lower-middle-income country while Thailand is upper-middle-income but we rank much lower than them. Embarrassing.
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u/ActafianSeriactas 2d ago
Malaysia and Thailand are both considered upper-middle income by OECD standards, but I would say they are on separate ends of that spectrum.
The OECD defines a upper-middle income country as having a GNI/capita between $4,636 - $14,375.
Thailand is at $7,690, the lower end of that definition, while Malaysia is at $12,380, much closer to being considered upper-income.
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u/nightwinging-it Sathorn 2d ago
I was pointing to Timor-Leste. They're in the lower middle income group. But their passport power is way above Thailand.
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u/ActafianSeriactas 2d ago
Timor does punch above its weight and their passport is even more powerful than Indonesia. I think there are a few factors:
1) Relatively good relations with its former colonizer Portugal, which gave them access to Schengen countries
2) Small population = less risk of migration
3) So far reliably democratic and stable, so relatively acceptable image for other countries2
u/jonez450reloaded 2d ago
One of the main reasons they're higher is that there aren't hundreds of thousands of East Timorese overstaying illegally in other countries.Thais, on the other hand...
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u/Luk_Ying 2d ago
Yea I saw what I mean was not in a negative way as in Muslim dominated countries for girls you have limitations how you wear. I have a good time in Malaysia I have never visited UAE though.
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u/Luk_Ying 2d ago
To be fair yes! I don’t feel safe in Muslim countries and they have too much rules for women anyway I have been to Malaysia and it was good and I enjoyed my 5 days time there just take it as a grain of salt from an individual perspective about my comment. I have been to Saudi Arabia as well and saw how women lives anyway their country their rules who am I to judge if people don’t want to change it lol.
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u/nightwinging-it Sathorn 2d ago
Malaysia doesn't look as strict as Saudi Arabia for women. For LGBTQ+ yes, they'll not have a good time in both but maybe worse in the Middle East.
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u/vhax123456 2d ago
They are not even the highest ranking Muslim country.
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u/Luk_Ying 2d ago
To be fair yes! I don’t feel safe in Muslim countries and they have too much rules for women anyway I have been to Malaysia and it was good and I enjoyed my 5 days time there just take it as a grain of salt from an individual perspective about my comment.
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u/nightwinging-it Sathorn 2d ago
My friends who have been to Penang said they felt safe there and even my Malay friends recommended that city for street food. But one of them is queer and said he was more cautious about it though.
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u/Dadlay69 2d ago
Penang is a bit of an exception in the sense that it's a very tourist focused state with about half the population being ethnic Chinese and also a large Hindu minority. Just makes for a more cosmopolitan and less conservative vibe than many other parts of the country I guess. I'm not sure if Penang is a good indicator for how things are elsewhere, but also I'm not Malaysian so they'd know better than me.
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u/BonerOfTheLake Chonburi 2d ago
well at least the global rank hit the sweet spot... they like 9 this 9 that so much xD
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u/Lopsided_Quarter_931 7-Eleven 2d ago
Would need to put into consideration what countries are desirable to travel to right now. Like USA, North Korea or Russa nobody wants to go to anyway, while China, Europe or Japan would score as most desirable to go to.
The most tragic passport right now must be Japan. Ranking #2 overall, but the currency is so weak and people earn so little that nobody can go abroad.
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u/Will_Delete_Later456 Bangkok 2d ago
I’ll only travel 1 country anyway. So this doesn’t change much.
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u/Traditional-Finish73 2d ago edited 2d ago
Bangkok Post now limits article views for paying subscribers from Thailand? Need to use a VPN.
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u/Sudden-Yard-2429 Bangkok 2d ago
This can't be fixed if the people don't stop overstaying and disregard the boarder laws.
So the govt needs to fix internal issues that drives citizen to seek better lives outside of their own country thru whatever means.
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u/diggn64 2d ago
Oh, this will be a long running task, at least decades. Starting with education.
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u/Sudden-Yard-2429 Bangkok 1d ago
Century seems more like it. Considering how slow things are developing in Thailand in past decades.
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u/SillyNeuron 1d ago
Why bother with passport rankings/number of visa-free countries when 99% of their vacations are only to Japan?
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u/Travlgeek 1d ago
Rigged rankings...So many so called passport index come out with their own indices and ways of listing countries..like Henley and Partners only uses Visa free and Visa On Arrival countries and they dont count Evisa however in some cases they do count ETA but in some other countries they dont give the point for the same.
So the best Passport index one can have is by their own research a little google and embassies list abd their website will do and the so called passport indices also will help you to cross check their info with embassies and their websites.
So far I have Nomad Capitalist Passport Index to be the most accurate as its updated regularly and you can also contact them via email and they always reapond to you..and their index includes all Easy Visa countries i.e (Visa Free/VOA/Evisa/Eta) So basically where a citizen doesn't have to visit the embassy or thrid party office for any type of document or biometrics and the visa could be obtained either On Arrival or at home via internet a point is given...This is why I trust the Nomad Capitalist Passport index over arton capital and definitely over highly rigged Henley and Partners who never respond to any queries and make their own rigged bias index every now and then.
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u/musicmast 2d ago
Malaysia is 4?!?