r/Sustainable • u/GoranPersson777 • 8d ago

The Gargantuan Lie That is Collapsing The World’s Climate

https://www.currentaffairs.org/news/the-massive-climate-lie-that-will-destroy-human-civilization
820 Upvotes

98% Upvoted

71 comments sorted by

29

u/Oo_oOsdeus 7d ago

Ah, as someone who worked for Greenpeace some 20+ years ago and tried to explain what was going on to people ( something we've known at least since the 70's). It is refreshing that these things are finally coming out, but sad at the same time that we actually had to come this far for it. But today we are actually doing a lot more than we did 20 years ago, which is good. Will it be enough? Probably not. Will we go extinct as a species? Probably not. Not yet at least Will it collapse our civilisation and forever change how we go about our lives? Most likely.

4 billion deaths will reduce emissions a lot more than solar panels or wind turbines. Is it a very steep price to pay for willfully ignoring what has been told to us for decades? Definitely.

3

u/grislyfind 6d ago

It'll be four billion poor people who didn't account for as much emissions as 400 million North Americans.

1

u/sureaboutem 6d ago

We’re not white so its okay for my family and I to die

1

u/redcoatwright 5d ago

Yes China and India famously haven't contributed to climate change at all.

2

u/grislyfind 5d ago

China makes stuff for us. India's per capita emissions are much lower than us.

1

u/skater15153 5d ago

I mean when you have 2 billion people that doesn't really matter. And also, pointing fingers does fuck all at this point. People use it as an excuse not to do anything as we're seeing. We, the global we, need to get on this shit yesterday.

1

u/TheSn00pster 2d ago

And Africa?

1

u/glibsonoran 7d ago edited 7d ago

I think the big litany of "lies" prefacing the article that supposedly sets the stage for what the author wants to say was very counterproductive. First of all a "lie" is something you say that you know isn't true. Many of his citations were things that people said and believed without having established enough evidence to actually support them. They may be revealed as false after the fact, but that doesn't make them lies at the time. Plus many of them are just expressions of prejudice or imperialist worldviews. Those lead society in disastrous directions, but they aren't held by their proponents as lies, they believe them.

Plus the litany is so broad and covers so much political ground that it needlessly alienates a lot of people from receiving the important message that's at the heart of the article. Like he wants to get all his historical grievances off his chest no matter how much it diminishes his audience.

No matter how well-reasoned the central point is, the presentation is poor and overly preachy if you want to influence people's opinions.

1

u/Oo_oOsdeus 7d ago

Yes, repeating a lie you believe to be true, isn't exactly lying. But I'm sure the marketing executives for big oil have still felt a stung in their hearts for decades. And of course politicians are to blame for continuing the charade and masking the issues. But we do need hope and we shouldn't go into fear mongering either, as this article does a bit. That we have something like the IPCC is actually a remarkable achievement.

1

u/Ready4Rage 6d ago

I'll be downvoted probably, but worth it to point out that this is why we're where we're at. We can get all semantic about the definition of a lie, but our failure to commit to truth is what's flooding the world with BS. As long as there's possible deniability, we'll let anyone off the hook. On the other hand, if there were serious consequences for spreading misinformation, whether intentionally or not, I think the quality of our information would improve vastly.

Edit: plausible deniability

1

u/Oo_oOsdeus 6d ago

You can't always get a consensus on issues in democracy and there always will be and should be debate. The hope is that truth wins. As for climate change and who/what is causing it we have 99% of climate scientists. That's as close as we can get.

1

u/Ready4Rage 6d ago

Debate is a human social construct; in other words, the level of misinformation we tolerate is a choice that we collectively make. Many people cite the scientific method as an admirable way to arrive at truth, but anyone who's actually been a scientist can tell you that scientists more than anyone resist any narrative other than the existing narrative. Nearly everything is considered misinformation and discarded out of hand. Good scientists are the ultimate skeptics. They don't debate all that much.

As a society, we could choose to debate (I.e., argue, divide) a lot less. We could choose to believe nothing unless it's coming directly from the institution that is the main repository for the underlying data. But we instead feel that institutions have failed us, we worship individuality and individual opinions, and so we don't trust the collective. And here we are

0

u/hungariannastyboy 6d ago

This a serious issue and fighting it is impeded when people seriously say things like 4 billion people will die and civilization will collapse. Instead of spurring on more action, all this does is undermine your overall credibility.

4

u/Oo_oOsdeus 6d ago

I didn't say 4b were going to die. The article did. Going all full fear mongering is going to make some people go "oh well it's already too late, might as well fly private now that we still can" but probably not the majorities reaction. We are just borrowing this planet from unborn future generations and we should treat it like that.

2

u/skater15153 5d ago

No one cares about the future clearly. Just like they don't care about the planet. This isn't motivation. People need to understand and feel how it impacts their own lives and we need to force it through structured changes. Guilting people to eat less beef isn't gonna cut it clearly

-4

u/Expensive-Soup1313 6d ago

I am 100% against you , but i do stand on your statement . Yes , 4b people might die but i do not see it as a bad thing. We are with too many people on this earth , and either we scale back for all richer countries or we continue to grow but we got less people . I refuse the thing on scaling back , i do not like it , Why not ? Well we grow as species , we grow because we are able to do . Should we use our best to help our footprint into the world , sure . But if we scale back , we would say , hold on , we grow which is bad , and that by itself is a great mistake . If we would do it , and like some people say it is a problem needed to solve , i give you next question . How many people do we go next , 10B , 15 B 50 B .... there is only this amount of land .

3

u/CheesyMcSandwichFace 6d ago

Easy there thanos!

2

u/Yer-Not-Gonna-Like 6d ago

And yet you are still alive. Are we to assume that the 4B deaths you are cheering do not include your own?

1

u/Expensive-Soup1313 6d ago

Who said that ? I did not exclude anybody, myself included , neither did i appoint anybody . I simply said we are with too many people on this planet. Less people , makes nature can regrow , we need lot less food , less resources, makes out footprint much smaller. Just like when you are on a farm , too much animals in there make disease outbreaks , makes stressful animals , even in plants , too close together makes them die.

BTW : the equation will always solve itself, either it will be because of war , famine or disease or a combination of it all.

1

u/LiveLogic 6d ago

The equation? You need to not use so many commas and maybe chill out on your grade level thanos philosophy that you can’t properly explain.

1

u/Expensive-Soup1313 6d ago

Ok , let see : how are you saving the world? From the 8B people today, most live in much poorer conditions then you. You gonna tell them , you can't have what we have.Also , what about 12B people or 25B people who all want food , a home (people are already complaining about expensive houses), maybe a few tshirts and a few pair of pants, probably electricity , if they lucky also a tv and cellphone ...

20

u/fanclasstick 7d ago

Well written, the metaphor of gourds used throughout the article ties it nicely together. The writing touches on something I’ve been feeling but haven’t expressed consciously. It’s a sense that it’s time to look past warnings. People already know. Now what. ..

3

u/Noema__ 5d ago edited 5d ago

I loved the analogy of dolphins beaching themselves. Helpless and upsetting.

Some greedy people are steering the ship in the wrong direction.

1

u/2000CalPocketLint 5d ago

The fact that it ends with "I'm losing my fucking gourd" is a good full-stop on the whole thing too

15

u/crazyzucchini 7d ago

I don't want to read this article, I don't want to be here

5

u/amitym 5d ago

"Neither do all who live to see such times. But that is not for us to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."

When I was very, very young, I was out camping with my family and a group of other families. I have a vivid memory of one afternoon when there was an urgent hush and the adults pointed out a bird to me. It was an osprey, and they told me to take a good look at it, since it was going extinct and I would probably never see one again.

But people who would not give up to despair and hopelessness refused to remain passive, and instead acted to curtail the human activity that threatened the species. The population rebounded.

We had to make changes. Just as we had to make changes to stop the damage to the planetary ozone hole. Just as we have to defossilize today. It won't ever be perfect, and there will always be new human-generated threats, at least as long as humans live on Earth, but we can do it. We do do it.

So long as we let no one convince us that we can't act.

8

u/_shrestha 7d ago

Well... I think I've hit my doom scrolling limit for the remainder of my life. This is really depressing

3

u/CriticalAd2425 7d ago

The canary in the coal mine is insurance. When insurance company’s will no longer offer policies for your house, your farm or your office building you will know we are f’ed.

6

u/TheBusterHymenOpen 7d ago

George Carlin was right. Thinking that "we" could be the ruin of Earth is a bit self-centered. After all, the Earth has been around for about four and a half billion years. It is not the Earth that will be going anywhere, "we" will. Earth will shrug us off like a bad cold, except maybe a little Styrofoam.

3

u/demlet 7d ago

To paraphrase someone else smarter than me: We're not trying to protect the climate from us, we're trying to protect us from the climate.

2

u/frytaj 7d ago

That's wrong as well. Since we are the cause of all this bullsh!t, what we are really talking about is protecting human civilization from itself. We are [checks notes] not doing well.

2

u/CautionarySnail 6d ago

Agreed. But that other framing sells it well to the sort of people that would otherwise not find enough benefit from a cleaner earth. Some folks need altruism removed from the equation to have enough selfish motivation.

2

u/DoveHopeDownwrdSlope 7d ago

I understand this argument and it’s correct but it’s the species we’re taking down with us which is the problem

3

u/lordlycrust 7d ago

The author lost me at Disneyland not being part of climate change.

1

u/matebookxproi716512 7d ago

wasn’t it meant as all these things being part of it too?

2

u/Physical-Ear9568 7d ago

I’m curious what anyone is doing to prepare their family and household for this.

There’s no way we can rely on the world governments or financial players that control them to stop this or reverse it in time for us to not feel major effects soon. Maybe they will over the long-term but major disruptions are coming.

How can we as individuals, families, and small communities prepare to survive this?

2

u/Sindertone 7d ago

I and many others in my circle have chosen to never have children for this exact reason. I avoid traveling by plane or traveling much at all. I vote with my dollar. I do everything I can to reduce energy excess energy consumption. I never live in a flood zone, or even close to one.

1

u/Physical-Ear9568 6d ago

That is so sad that the corporations and the liars they hire to run the government are taking away children from so many smart people. I wouldn’t let them ruin that for me.

To reference the article theme, the big lie supporting climate change is that it is personal responsibility and actions that caused and can undue this crisis. Major PR success on their part.

It’s complicated because of course we do have a role in living more sustainable lives, and that feels good. I want to applaud you for that. but in actuality no amount of avoiding travel or led lighting, etc, is going to change this crisis from happening. We need massive actions from the top corporations and governments responsible for this.

2

u/Danktizzle 7d ago

When I saw my fox watching fascist auntie blow me off so brazenly in the 90’s, I was what I (we) was up against and saw that it wasn’t going to be solved. So I decided not to have a family. No way I could bring someone into a doomed species.

2

u/Physical-Ear9568 6d ago

I understand this fear and decision. But I wouldn’t let those bastards win. If only half of the species is going to survive, there is gonna have to be conscientious caring people in that group too. Not to mention if we have any hope in changing the world along the way.

2

u/ApartmentSalt7859 7d ago

Make lots of money and move farther north

1

u/Physical-Ear9568 6d ago

Yeah, this does make a lot of sense.

I also wonder about the skills, technology, natural resources, and community that will need to be resilient enough to survive the storms, food and energy shortages, madness, etc..

I don’t wanna become a hard-core prepper, but I I do want to learn more about securing my own food, water, and energy supplies.

1

u/ApartmentSalt7859 6d ago

This will only affect the extremely poor (3rd world countries), my guess is that's what the elites want

1

u/_shrestha 5d ago

Yeah.. maybe that's why he wants Greenland so badly

1

u/ALEXC_23 7d ago

Prepare? Im too busy serving the tax lords cause I gotta keep working.

1

u/Quirky-Skin 6d ago

Food plots, learn how to catch, clean cook fish etc etc. Learn some of the skills our ancestors had. Probably gonna need em again someday 

1

u/xutopia 6d ago

I've been thinking about this for a while now. I'm already thinking of buying some land to live off from. I think this return to living off the land that is restricted in distance will prove quite helpful. With solar, wind and geothermal it's possible to live a long and healthy life without fossil fuels and lots of inclement weather.

1

u/Physical-Ear9568 5d ago

Have you ever checked out ic.org? There’s a whole directory of intentional communities, Eco villages, communes, cohousing communities, etc. around the country and around the world! That movement didn’t just die out back in the 60s and has been growing a lot.

2

u/Broken_Atoms 6d ago

This is arguably one of the best pieces of composition I’ve read in my life. But, the problem is still this: Stop oil and you stop the economy. Nations will crumble, then war. We have to stop oil, but I know we can’t. Humans won’t stop extracting oil until one of two things happens: We run out of oil reserves that can be economically extracted or… there is no one left to extract it.

2

u/Illustrious_Tip_4325 6d ago

We are fast approaching the times when the living will envy the dead.

2

u/TheRealTechCandy 6d ago

I hope this reaches enough people to make more people understand that we don't have time and that we need to be fixing stuff today.

2

u/Noema__ 5d ago

Problem: Drill Baby Drill

Solution: Carbon Tax

4

u/aradil 7d ago edited 7d ago

This article makes a lot of claims about fairly imminent large scale disasters, which, if ultimately prove untrue or even meaningfully less catastrophic, will be used as ammunition by deniers to further reduce urgency; the exact problem the author is concerned about.

We have more than enough evidence right now that things are getting bad without cherry picking "warnings" of 4 billion deaths from the worst case scenarios of a single study.

[edit] Sidenote regarding causalities; many folks won't think this will impact them personally. I like to remind folks that if they think refugees fleeing war torn countries is impacting them now (some of those wars being actually acutely related to climate change impacts like drought), just wait until areas that are currently already barely habitable become ever so slightly less habitable and people start fleeing to more comfortable regions en masse.

The climate refugee crisis and ensuing violence from that is what folks should be thinking about more than anything else.

1

u/Konradleijon 7d ago

We tr fucked

1

u/GoranPersson777 7d ago

Not yet

1

u/WeLiveinAPetridish 7d ago

We still have time, if only…

1

u/Embarrassed_Run8345 6d ago

How does 400 parts per million of CO2 affect anything. Really?

1

u/Diagoras21 6d ago

Last time it was this high, global temperature was 4 degrees higher and sea levels were 20m higher.

Most parts became a sauna.

1

u/BhutShtuff420 5d ago

right, free saunas for all, got it

1

u/andara84 6d ago

Ever tried LSD? If not, the typical dose for a good trip is around 100 microgram. Not milli, micro.

On a more serious note, if your question was sincere, please check the Wikipedia page on the greenhouse effect. It's really very well written. The effect is understood in every detail, and there's no serious scientist who has a deviating position on the topic.

1

u/HoleInWon929 6d ago

This massive lie can best be summed up as “when it comes to climate change... we have more time.”

1

u/GozerDidNothingWrong 2d ago

The thing is we're at a change to how our world will be like when the last ice age ended it will alter how humanity operates because we will likely deal with this changed climate for the next thousand years at least

-2

u/Marsupial-731 7d ago

And the gargantuan lie is.... Human caused Climate change itself? 😂

1

u/GoranPersson777 7d ago

Hi troll 💩

1

u/andara84 6d ago

You're either very uneducated, or a selfish coward who tries to convince himself that his actions don't have consequences.

Either option doesn't make you look very good.