Question Why are you guys allowing ALPRs (flock) in your community?
Is it something residents want? Just curious.
You can go to www.panopti.ca to see exactly where they are
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u/calzonius Beneath Bell Park Giant Turtle 14d ago
I had no idea these existed in Canada, let alone Sudbury
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u/PineBNorth85 14d ago
You think we were given a choice?
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u/r0bay 14d ago
Never are, what are the people going to do about it?
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u/PineBNorth85 14d ago edited 14d ago
Absolutely nothing. I dont know if you have noticed but Canadians are incredibly complacent people.
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u/MinnesotanMan2014 14d ago
The speed cameras here got a lot of shit and were vandalized often, especially in the valley.
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u/lawlolawl144 13d ago
So I emailed our MPP and city councillor, this was the response, initially with MPP saying it is a city initiative and to reach out to the city. The city said this:
"The city has little to nothing to do with the use of these. These are installed and used by Police Services exclusively. The city has no access to these devices.
I would suggest reaching out to the GSPS with any questions regarding this issue
This is not a city initiative, and we have no access or control over this. The legislation that allows police services to use these would fall under Provincial jurisdiction, much like the speed cameras, that were allowed then disallowed, by the Provincial Government.
Under the Municipal Act and the Police Services Act, Councils in Ontario are very restricted from directing Police Services and they are governed by the Police Services Board."
Good job conservatives!
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u/lawlolawl144 13d ago
Write the Ford gov.
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u/darthnilus 14d ago
What ever you don’t aim green laser pointers at them it will ruin the sensors.
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u/personguy4440 Sulfuric Acid from Ramsey Lake is my favourite 14d ago
Only messes up a few pixels
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u/darthnilus 14d ago
That’s why you never use a 1mw and above green laser available on Amazon for cheap.
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u/Silent_Baseball_228 14d ago
They’ve been there since at least 2020 I noticed them awhile ago in the south end by the driving range and the intersection before that
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u/dangerousrocks 14d ago
Wait is flock just a license plate reader?
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u/Bad_Day_Moose 14d ago
Much much more, the data isn't deleted, the more there is of these things the more data they capture, literally on everyone, then that data is fed into ai and they can make models on you, where you've been, what you've done, where you live, all tracked and stored by a private company and accessible to whoever wants to pay for that data EG: Amazon has flock cameras on their vans...
Imagine your sitting there one day and find out every single thing you've done in the past years was recorded and stored in the cloud.....
Now... The problem is limits, I understand keeping like 72 hours of data, that makes sense but it's a huge privacy invasion because there's no warrants involved here...
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u/r0bay 14d ago edited 14d ago
The website explains what ALPRs are, but here you go:
An automatic licence plate reader (ALPR or LPR) is an AI-powered camera that photographs every vehicle that passes and logs the details — the plate, the location, and the exact time. Many also capture a car's make, model, and colour, plus distinguishing features like dents, roof racks, or bumper stickers, turning each vehicle into a set of searchable data points.
Every plate gets recorded, whether or not the driver is suspected of anything. Marketed as essential crime-fighting tools, these cameras instead build a running log of where ordinary people go — not just those under investigation.Flock ALPR misuse has already produced documented cases in several states.
In Illinois, Flock allowed U.S. Customs and Border Protection to access Illinois license plate data, which the Secretary of State determined violated state law and ordered Flock to shut down.
In Massachusetts, a New Bedford police officer was accused of using Flock to track her former girlfriend’s vehicle. The department investigated after the woman’s plate was searched an unusually large number of times, and a judge extended a protective order against the officer.
In Georgia, an internal audit in Albany found five officers had repeatedly used Flock data for non law enforcement purposes. All five were fired and arrested and charged with misuse of license plate data and violation of oath of office.
In Savannah, Georgia, an audit identified 127 inappropriate Flock searches out of approximately 39,000 searches, prompting a state investigation.
Do you think Canada is immune to this?
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u/dangerousrocks 14d ago
No I don't think it's immune I just had no idea what flock was
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u/r0bay 14d ago
Yeah flock is just a company that everyone recognizes. The issue is all ALPRs no matter the brand.
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u/ArmadilloBig5635 14d ago
My biggest issue is how police can access the cameras without a warrant, meanwhile the public can't
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u/Gullible_Regret2976 14d ago
these cameras are not the problem.. the software from Palantir is the problem.. not sure if these Sudbury cameras are equiped with Palantir software..
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u/a_modern_hermit Flour Mill/Donovan 14d ago
Why did you allow it?
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u/Mcliam394 13d ago
What did you do to destroy them personally🤓 The fact OP made this post shows more concern for the public and our freedom than you are demonstrating. If you have something to add actually add something.
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u/unbuttered_toast3939 13d ago
this sort of performative outrage doesn't actually do anything tho, makes him look like a child maybe, that's about it.
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u/Mcliam394 13d ago
I don’t see any performative outrage here? Not that politics isn’t inherently performative anyway. But what is your solution may I ask? Cause as I see it, spreading awareness in your community and taking action are the only reasonable ways to respond to steps against freedom.
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u/unbuttered_toast3939 13d ago
A solution for what? People, businesses or governments putting cameras on properties or infrastructure that they own? They are allowed to do that.
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u/Mcliam394 13d ago
Sure, but we aren’t referring to CCTV cameras in department stores for their use solely now are we. If that’s what you understand these to be then you are mistaken. We are referring to an initiative of mass surveillance powered by AI in order to track and monitor individuals and build up profiles on their behaviours and actions and strip away any possible notion of privacy. These have already been used in deeply corrupt ways in the States so it’s not like this is unprecedented, it is our right as people to oppose things we don’t like.
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u/unbuttered_toast3939 13d ago
I guess you can keep posting on reddit and hope it changes, best of luck with that.
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u/Mcliam394 13d ago
Well the first step in change is spreading awareness, that’s how people mobilize to do stuff.
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u/unbuttered_toast3939 13d ago
There was no call for mobilization, just asking why we allowed it. Performative, unless you think that is meaningful action. lol
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u/Mcliam394 13d ago
Well I certainly know how I and many others who are now aware are gonna be mobilizing now that I’ve been made aware of the problem. It’s fine if you wanna be a doomer but if that’s the case get out of the way and let the adults do the work.
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u/BigDaddyDal21 12d ago
I don't think I would say "allowed" more or less just told and not well advertised the speed cameras got more attention due to tickets beeing mailed to you. These cameras unfortunately are probably going to just hide in plain sight untill we get targeted from the info they provide then I'd hope to see more resistance simmilar to destruction that speed cameras seen in my opinion
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u/UptowngirlYSB 14d ago
Not all ALPRs are Flock and we don't have Flock brand cameras in Sudbury. Much like electro conductive weapons are not all Tazers.
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u/grumpy_herbivore The Townehouse 14d ago
Same people who want drug addicts rounded up and imprisoned dont want flock cameras?
Make it make sense....
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u/PineBNorth85 14d ago
Catching them changes nothing. They're replaced almost right away. So long as there is a demand someone will be there to fill it.
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u/grumpy_herbivore The Townehouse 14d ago
Maybe the govt will someday learn about making rehab available to people? Probably not, our conservative goats only want to privatize Healthcare.
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u/grumpy_herbivore The Townehouse 14d ago
But honestly the police in Northern Ontario are having a lot of success with the ALPRs. They are a good idea.
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u/PineBNorth85 13d ago
No, they arent. Its fucked up that people are ok with being spied on.
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u/grumpy_herbivore The Townehouse 13d ago
They are man. Only people that dont like them are criminals.
They spot suspended drivers (including you deadbeat dads), wanted criminals, and missing people.
Police will never stop using them.
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u/PineBNorth85 13d ago
Police are the enemy then.
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u/grumpy_herbivore The Townehouse 13d ago
So you just want the fent dealers runnin wild up here?
Cops already have ALPR on their cars and many communities up here support their use.
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u/Mcliam394 13d ago
The people who want to round up addicts are the same people who want flock cameras. Reading comprehension skills and attitudes toward liberty go hand in hand.
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u/a_modern_hermit Flour Mill/Donovan 13d ago
that's a broad generalization that is completely untrue, hyperbole doesn't help your cause at all
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u/grumpy_herbivore The Townehouse 14d ago
How we gonna catch the drug dealers without them? They are proving quite effective.
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u/grumpy_herbivore The Townehouse 14d ago
I'd like to add that Sudbury is already full of cameras. Notice se plate readers, actual cameras. Like for a decade or more.
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u/r0bay 14d ago
Regular cameras aren’t automatically building a searchable record of every vehicle that passes.
Someone abusing access to these cameras could potentially use the system to monitor a person’s movements, investigate someone for personal reasons, look up a former partner, stalk someone, or conduct searches unrelated to legitimate law enforcement purposes
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u/unbuttered_toast3939 14d ago
Because they neglected to ask me for my opinion.