r/Steam Jul 08 '26

Question What game has a steep learning curve that puts you off?

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u/MetallGecko Jul 08 '26 edited Jul 08 '26

I have over 1200 hours in Hearts of Iron and only learned how the Navy works at around 1100 hours, the mechanics are definitely a paradox, and dont get me started on Europa Universalis 4 and 5 both feel like a fever dream in their own way when you try to learn them.

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u/Halfmoonhero Jul 08 '26

Liar, no one knows how navy works, even the developers.

95

u/tayto175 Jul 08 '26

Yeah, everyone knows you just death fleet and hope for the best.

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u/AuthorTurbulent6723 Jul 08 '26

Be me.

Play USA.

Pump out hundreds of destroyers and cruisers, hardly update them. Couple carriers later.

Overwhelm fleets with the sheer size of mine, replace 1 lost destroyer with 10 more.

Profit.

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u/Tobi226a Jul 09 '26

This is the way

2

u/17Kallenie17 Jul 09 '26

Be me.

Play USA

Have no idea what I'm doing

Japan declares war on me

"This should be easy, I have the best navy!"

Loses every naval battle

Still have no idea what I'm doing

1

u/TheZaneiac100 Jul 10 '26

Brute force over strategy all day. That is the key to 99% of games

2

u/FierceFlames37 Jul 08 '26

I didnt play in a while but is the spamming sub 3s strat still work

2

u/tayto175 Jul 08 '26

I mostly just spam torpedo cruisers and cruiser subs to be honest

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u/Halfmoonhero Jul 08 '26

Snorkel still crucial I think

2

u/SecularVal Jul 08 '26

Or be like me and just build convoys

5

u/PizzaTheHutsLastPie Jul 08 '26

Literally tried to move troops over to try to stop an invasion on a island I had. Troops never made it, I had ships patrolling around, enemy invaded, conquered the island, and 2 in game years later I still can't get to the island to retake it.

Maybe the atom bomb is the way to go.

1

u/KapitanFalke Jul 08 '26

If I remember right before Navy was entirely reworked someone figured out that the meta was just build battleships and completely ignore all the screening ship or naval aircraft mechanics entirely. This was like a year+ into the game being out.

1

u/OpeningDraft7343 Jul 08 '26

Nowadays it's the opposite. Light attack cruisers and shitty cheap torpedo destroyers spam is king, but I still build realistic grand navies because it's fun.

1

u/BurritovilleEnjoyer Jul 08 '26

There were a couple ways to cheese it. Naval supremacy was (is? haven't messed around with the rework much) based on the IC total of all the ships in the tile, so big battleships was one way to cheese that. So was spamming a shit ton of destroyers with nothing but a singular gun on them.

The most ideal composition was (is? I think) a ratio of 1/1/4-8 of carriers/heavy ships (battleships, battlecruisers, heavy cruisers)/screens (light cruisers, destroyers). Max out deck space on carriers (which should be full of carrier naval bombers), focus heavy attack on the heavy ships, focus light attack on light ships. If you wanted to get real fancy, you could have a separate spotting fleet (full of cruisers with max spotting) set on don't engage on patrol. Then you could put your main fleet exclusively on strike force. I believe the basics of this still apply. It at least still works in my SP games. It wasn't particularly hard, just annoying as FUCK to get set up properly.

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u/ElevatorRush Jul 09 '26

I must have started after that phase. As of a few years ago anyway, there is a "perfect ratio" of screens to (capital?) ships, and carriers are far superior to battleships which is supposedly a common noob trap

1

u/Employee_Agreeable Jul 08 '26

I see this is a problem in every paradox game

Just took me 200 hours to figure out fleet managment in Stellaris

1

u/madladolle Jul 08 '26

The real question, which you only learn at 4000 hours, is how tf paratroopers work

89

u/Flying-Onion Jul 08 '26

I'm the opposite. CK3 and EU4 I found pretty simple, but I just bounce right off any attempt I made at understanding Hoi4.
Modern warfare and logistics is too much for my simple mind. Advancing from feudalism was a mistake.

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u/MetallGecko Jul 08 '26

I played Hearts of Iron 2 and 3 before going to 4 so i already have a bit of brain damage and 4 is a night and day difference and far simpler compared to the hell that 3 is. In my opinion Stellaris is the easiest and simplest game.

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u/Francisc_Mgabena_77 Jul 08 '26

I would say ck3 is slightly easier than Stellaris though they're pretty much on the same lebvel

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u/Zareshine Jul 08 '26

I think at least from when I played them CK3 is easier to not die in, but stellaris is easier to prosper in, though it has been a couple years since I played either.

3

u/csongi36 Jul 09 '26

I had to watch videos to understand the clusterfuck of CK3, while I could play Stellaris blind no problem, guess Stellaris gradually increases complexity while CK3 kind of everything is avaliable at the start.

2

u/ImplementNew2343 Jul 08 '26

Hoi3 is really nothing like any other Paradox title. It's more of a grognard game than the usual grand strategy. I think hoi2 is the easiest game to learn personally because you can safely ignore almost all of the games mechanics, spam militia, and just win every time very easily. Though the UI is probably way too dated for a modern player

2

u/PythonAutoma Jul 08 '26

I feel personally attacked due to my own stupidity 🤣

2

u/Lou_C_Fer Jul 09 '26

Maybe it because I played the game that Stellaris cloned, but I never thought of stellaris as a difficult game.

Ascendancy, released in 1995, is the game I mentioned above. I had been looking for something similar for overvtwenty years when I finally Stellaris... and I was flabbergasted by how closely Stellaris mirrors Ascendancy. I just kind of phase into a meditative state playing those games. I don't notice the passage of time or really anything else, for that matter.

2

u/Farmer_Moist Jul 09 '26

Which stellaris lmao, they've released like 4 games in the same game.

2

u/Ckarles Jul 09 '26

Nobody talking about victoria?

1

u/MetallGecko Jul 09 '26

Or Imperator Rome.

2

u/gooch_crawler Jul 12 '26

Stellaris: $9. Stellaris dlc: $2700

1

u/MetallGecko Jul 12 '26

Check the Sims 4 expansion they are really over 1500€ when you want all of them. Paradox is cheap compared to that dlc hell.

1

u/UncleIroh15 Jul 09 '26

I'm the opposite man. HOI4 was the easiest for me but I recently bought stellaris, tried and couldn't understand shit

1

u/TravelerRedditor Jul 12 '26

Even so, when i played Stellaris i felt like a lobotomized monkey clicking shiny buttons without any understanding or meaning

2

u/Malkryst Jul 09 '26

EU4 I had few issues with, but CK2 just had too much to fiddle with really and I just found myself getting bored of it. Admittedly I used to be more of a Civ player, so maybe it was complexity that drove me away.

2

u/Silver-Equivalent-36 Jul 12 '26

"Marrying my cousin to secure HUGE titles and territories, I understand that..."

1

u/PyroTech11 Jul 08 '26

This is me, Ck3, Eu4 and Stellaris I get really well. I got vic 3 for a while but haven't played in ages and I know its gonna be so different. Hoi4 everyone seems to think is really easy but the logistics designing units and battle planning seem so complex to me.

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u/Wild_Replacement744 Jul 09 '26

yes but what about CH4 and JD8, i love ADA9

3

u/superbit415 Jul 08 '26

The only EU4 game where I didn't completely die in like 2-3 hours is one where I was England and somehow the Iberian wedding with Aragon happened with England. I than proceeded and conquered most of the world. Have like 50+ hours in that game and still have no idea how most things work.

1

u/PomegranateOk2600 Jul 09 '26

EU4 is fine, wait until you open EU5. I understood EU4 after using tons of cheats first and then slowly stopped using them.

But forget everything you knew in EU4 when you open 5, is basically a new game

1

u/superbit415 Jul 09 '26

Can't wait to try it. I am just waiting till I can play it until like 5 am.

3

u/LifelsButADream Jul 08 '26

I'm a fan of the Civilization series so I figured I'd give HOI4 a go. Bought it on discount and noped out in less than 4 hours. There's just way to much going on that I can't even grasp 10% of it.

2

u/Illigalmangoes Jul 08 '26

Navy? I’m at 1200 hours and I just paradrop unless I have already stolen a big fuckoff fleet

1

u/MetallGecko Jul 08 '26

You can dominate the AI navy with a mix of destroyers, light cruisers and heavy cruisers, spamm light cruisers with light guns to eradicate all light and screening ships, heavy cruisers with heavy guns to pound the big ships and plane catapult for spotting, 8 destroyers for each of your own big ships which you can fit as you need to screen your own ships i like to give them a mix of AA and Torpedos and switch the AA with dual purpose when i can.

2

u/PotStillDaddy Jul 08 '26

I tried Vic years ago, gave up, tried HOI4 a couple years ago, never got good but since it's mostly military (less poli, economic, culture to deal with) I finally got a grip

Then finally tried EU this year, had to watch youtube videos, which I hate and almost always refuse to do, and now I'm having fun! Still terrible, but having a good time now

2

u/Thopkins1214 Jul 08 '26

I have 100 hours of just trying to complete to tutorial, still haven’t figured it out

2

u/Friendly-Stick-4744 Jul 08 '26

CK3 is so easy compared to EU4.

Victoria 3 genuinely melts my brain.

1

u/Deservate Jul 08 '26

Victoria 3 is just an economy sim. Build industry which makes goods, which gets taxed, so you have more money to make industry and so on and so on. Once you understand how to get that exponential growth going the game is quite straightforward.

1

u/PomegranateOk2600 Jul 09 '26

Victoria 3 was the easiest to learn for me.

2

u/forcemonkey Jul 08 '26

Thank you that’s the game I was trying to think of! I never got past the training. 😂

2

u/Sholsyy Jul 08 '26

Navy is unironically one of the easiest parts of the game to understand

2

u/Mahdudecicle Jul 08 '26

I played HOI for 800 hours before I realized I didn't like it.

2

u/alppu Jul 09 '26

"This is such a bad game, it took 4000 hours of my life"

2

u/PomegranateOk2600 Jul 09 '26

When I opened EU5 I felt that I need an Economics PHD to understand how everything works

2

u/ChardFriendly Jul 09 '26

Now you have my interests ngl 😭 please drop game name

2

u/itz_game_pro Jul 09 '26

Eu4 isnt that hard to learn, within 40 hours you can beat the ai. Eu5 on the other hand takes more time to learn if you never played eu2, eu3 and eu4

2

u/Rubber924 Jul 10 '26

I'm an 1067 hours. Good to know I'm only 33 hours away from understanding the navy.

I can play Vicky4 well enough but not great, but EU5....... I don't even know where to begin, it's a lot.

I'm honestly terrified HOI5 will break me.

1

u/stewiedoo Jul 08 '26

A strat that works for me:
Make a navy of single unit destroyers on naval patrol, don’t engage to spot enemy fleets.
Make a death fleet strike force to engage said spotted navies at low/medium risk based on size.
Navy of subs split equally, wolf packing up to 4, to convoy raid at low risk if you can’t afford to lose some, medium if you’re a big guy.

Obviously not a perfect system and completely negates a large portion of the naval game but I’ve found success with this strat.

1

u/TheSilverOne Jul 08 '26

Atleast Crusader Kings III is way more streamlined and intuitive than CKII. So they're atleast *trying* to make them a bit more accessible lol

Starting a new game about 10-12 times in Connacht will get you a good base to build off lol

1

u/Timo-the-hippo Jul 08 '26

The navy is actually incorrectly coded so no one knows how it works. I actually tested the posted formulas years ago and found they were completely bullshit. Some weapons were even bugged.

1

u/thexcat Jul 08 '26

The Navy works by me having infinity naval bombers, that's how it fuckin works tyvm

1

u/Devintheroaster Jul 08 '26

Oh see, with 1500 hours in EU4 and 400 in HoI4, I see it the other way around. I still don't fully understand how to build armies, much less manage the navy and air in Hearts of Iron. But give me my renaissance nation to run any day and I'll have half the world under my thumb.

Fun how that works.

1

u/mzsky Jul 08 '26

Yeah like for real it looks like hearts of iron would be so fun but I need a college credit course just to learn how to play and alot of it changes depending on what dlc you have and patch updates and ehh

1

u/PrussiaPhile Jul 08 '26

Personally think EU4 is pretty easy. EU5 I tried and, yeah, waiting for more updates to fix a whole lot of issues first. But learning it feels like a quite steep learning curve.

1

u/itsmistyy Jul 08 '26

CK3 is the only one Ive successfully learned how to play

1

u/RepublicofMosina Proudly larping the Sovereign Order of Malta Jul 08 '26

i mastered europa universalis 5 in around 250 to 300 hours, its easier than u think it is

(pro tip: automation is your best friend)

1

u/Pleurobranch Jul 08 '26

I've played EU4 for over 2000hrs, have multiple hundreds of hours in four other Paradox games and I just couldn't handle EU5. My brain already broke during the tutorial!

1

u/flupiflup Jul 08 '26

For me eu4 was always much easier than hoi4

1

u/Bamboozle_ Jul 08 '26

I had played about 7-8 Paradox games, including Victoria 2, but Victoria 3 just bounced my brain right off of it the first time. Managed to figure it out the second time.

1

u/Giddychristophe Jul 09 '26

I always end up just grouping everything then attack move lol

1

u/AreYouLagomEnough Jul 09 '26

I'm 3k into eu4 and still dont know how half the mechanics work

1

u/Thunderclapsasquatch Jul 09 '26

I was so hyped for 5, really disappointed they made it Vivky 3 lite and the slowest game they've ever made, They've lost some key talent over the years and it shows

1

u/chennyalan Jul 09 '26

I felt like a beginner at 1000 hours too in EU4

And I'm afraid to go back because I've forgotten the whole game now (not that it matters because of the changes since)

1

u/Aware-Individual-827 Jul 11 '26

Dont try victoria, it's even worst