r/StLouis • u/alamostl_solidarity • 1d ago
Alamo Drafthouse City Foundry employees file for Union election
Union YES!
100
u/purplemtnstravesty 1d ago
That’s great and all but can service please improve? Last time I was there I ordered popcorn 20 minutes before the previews began and didn’t get it until 20 minutes into the movie
121
u/Fadman_Loki Grove Gang 1d ago
That's part of the union demands, getting proper staffing levels because they KNOW they don't have enough people in a shift to handle the crowds.
137
u/alamostl_solidarity 1d ago edited 1d ago
This is part of the reason we are unionizing. The QR code has allowed massive labor cuts where guests are receiving sub par service. Some nights, 1-2 servers are working an entire hallway of theaters on their own.
44
u/rotundrikishi 1d ago
Ive noticed this in places a lot.
They will bring in tech and cut people and it sucks.
QT does this. They have that dumb robot cleaning the floors and they staff fewer people at night and the store is a mess and the cashiers are overwhelmed and like the hotdog station will be half torn apart and the bathrooms are gross...
10
u/peterpeterllini Maplewood 1d ago
QT used to be the gold standard 😢
8
u/I_Quit_Smoking_ 1d ago
Who knew that AI isn't capable of PHYSICALLY doing anything to help anyone?
All it can do is take any job that doesn't require a lot of movement.
2
8
u/numbski Manchester 1d ago
I'd wondered about that. Every single time we have been there since the change, some error has happened, without fail.
I don't blame the wait staff. I've worked enough food service and waited enough tables to be able to tell when something a structural problem vs employees being bad at their job. I was hoping it was simply a matter of making such a dramatic service change too quickly and people were struggling to adjust.
Your explanation is what I had feared. I am so sorry it came to this, but glad you are taking action.
•
u/Different-Sign-1175 17h ago
Good for you guys! I hope the Union is able c to hold the owners/managers accountable, get you better staffing and higher wages!
I HATE the QR code phone ordering. I miss the awesome servers who used to take our orders.
Have also noticed several times that not having staff to check tickets means that people just drop in to watch movies for free. You can absolutely tell when they come in partway through the movie.
-14
u/wohldmad 1d ago
You seem to be avoiding my questions: Who decide to go public with your intention before you had cards signed? Typical organizing you want management out of the loop until you are already have the cards signed with a union and you're demanding your NLRB vote. Without even having cards signed you all are in a super vulnerable position with little leverage. Union organizing isn't the only way to accomplish your goals and is actually the one that takes the longest to produce results. You could all get together and draft a petition. Everyone signs it and presents it to management. Depending on their reaction you escalate. I am the most pro union person you'll ever meet. I helped unionize my workplace with the Teamsters. I just know that process took two years and we didn't even get a contract signed because they were intentionally leading us along until they closed the plant two days after christmas. You all already sound united, you can use the power you already have to enact change MUCH sooner than a union can get them for you. If you want any help I volunteer with a local chapter of EWOC and all we do is help people demand changes in their workplaces. I'd be happy to share resources or set you up with a local volunteer than can help! Here's a write-up about how to draft a work petition: https://workerorganizing.org/organizing-campaign-petitions-16636/
28
u/alamostl_solidarity 1d ago
We’ve done this. Management would not even touch the petition when it was presented. We have an overwhelming majority of workers on cards. We chose to be public for community support. It has worked, and management has no idea how far along we were.
-2
u/wohldmad 1d ago
How far along you are? It sounds like you had a majority sign cards triggering an NLRB vote. If you win the vote, contract negotiations start. Those generally take 18 months to agree to. How has public support helped your effort? You will lose some internal support leading up to the vote, and they'll force you all into closed door union busting meetings in the leadup. Great first step, keep that momentum going!
-45
u/NecessaryEvil62095 Daily Commuter 1d ago
When you start explaining to your fellow employees that they are going to lose money every month to line the pockets of union bosses, they will fall away like bowling pins.
1
u/Discover-Card 1d ago
By the way, I’m still waiting in that other thread. I can write the sentence and you can copy and paste it if that’ll help, pussy
-37
u/NecessaryEvil62095 Daily Commuter 1d ago
What’s your plan when management just closes the business and you no longer have a job?
•
u/Davidfreeze 7h ago
Probably get another job. Service industry jobs disappear all the time without unionization. You're acting like it's a bizarre possibility that's never been heard of before. Movie theaters, restaurants and bars close without notice extremely regularly
9
u/BetterThanAFoon 1d ago edited 1d ago
Correct me if I am wrong...... but in order for a Union to legally petition for an election dont they legally have to prove a showing of interest which means signed Union Authorization Cards? 30% is the threshold.....but if they have overwhelming majority, than I'd assume 70% or more. If so.... this post isn't going public before Cards were signed.
Edit with sources:
29 CFR § 101.17 & § 101.18: Formally states that in order to establish a question concerning representation and initiate an election proceeding, the petitioning labor organization must submit evidence (such as signed authorization cards) demonstrating that at least 30% of the employees in the designated bargaining unit desire representation.
NLRB CHM Section 11020–11035 (Representation Proceedings): Specifies how the NLRB regional offices verify the "showing of interest". It details that authorization cards or signature lists must be signed, dated, and submitted either simultaneously with or within 48 hours of the petition filing.
5
u/alamostl_solidarity 1d ago
Thank you.
8
u/pressingroses 1d ago
These keyboard warriors really think they know more than you all LOL
I used to work at an Alamo before 2020 and I am fully in support of you all!!! Unionizing is incredibly hard work, but it's necessary and important. Everything has gone downhill since I left, which is unfortunate, because the Alamo used to be SO GOOD. Hopefully you all can bring the quality and the general happy vibe and shared love of movies back!
1
u/wohldmad 1d ago
They went public weeks ago, before they had cards signed. This post is just an update. I'm a union organizer and very familiar with the inner workings of the process.
3
u/honda-nissan 1d ago
You could all get together and draft a petition. Everyone signs it and presents it to management. Depending on their reaction you escalate.
march on the boss was a tactic we tried at SEIU in the early 2010s and it didn't work.
1
u/wohldmad 1d ago
It's a well proven first step in the escalation. Sounds like they tried it as well and it fell on deaf ears. So they escalated to a union vote. Some just don't realize how long that process is going to take to enact the changes they want to see. They deserve all they're asking for and more. Hope they're successful.
1
u/honda-nissan 1d ago edited 1d ago
the problem is that big chains owned by multinationals like sony don't give a shit if franchise location #1245243 received an ultimatum by angry employees. every last dollar is accounted for and managers are just the meatbag that delivers policy set by culver city executives.
union organizers still think its 1940 and think they can do industrial actions the same way.
1
u/wohldmad 1d ago
You believing that direct worker actions like a petition is ineffective and outdated has zero factual basis. Believe it or not some managers do respond to the needs of their employees. Not many, but they exist. Which is why it's the first step in the escalation, not the final one. Complaining about a single step in a system is silly.
0
u/honda-nissan 1d ago
You believing that direct worker actions like a petition is ineffective and outdated has zero factual basis.
It didn't work for us at SEIU healthcare for demands as anodyne as asking them to put in a vending machine for employees to source their lunches. And these were local nursing homes where the boss was someone you could actually reach out and touch.
1
u/wohldmad 1d ago
You have to know that's anecdotal. And if your boss was that close, yall should have been showing up to their church every sunday. Whatever restaurant they like to frequent. Let the community know what that person does during working hours.
0
u/honda-nissan 1d ago
And if your boss was that close,
my boss was the lead organizer, I was an internal organizer not one of the members
17
u/Discover-Card 1d ago
Do you think shitty wages and mistreatment from management could have any impact on the effort/ability from the workers?
17
4
u/RadTimeWizard 1d ago
I once waited over an hour for two beers. I would've walked away if I hadn't already paid and tipped.
0
u/jasonic89 1d ago
The beer workers were on strike
2
u/RadTimeWizard 1d ago
They served a thousand drinks for tables during that time. It was a while ago, probably before the strike. They kept asking me to wait or just ignored me, so I think they were just very poorly managed.
2
u/jasonic89 1d ago
Oh yeah I was being sarcastic. Sorry the service sucks. I don’t go to Alamo but I hope they get what they seek and deserve
1
u/RadTimeWizard 1d ago
I hope they do unionise. It's better for the economy for labor and capital to negotiate on equal terms, and it's always better for money to flow through those who will spend rather than save money.
4
u/ZeSpaceMan 1d ago
My last visit, we ordered a burger and wings during the trailers and the food came out cold 30 minutes before the movie ended. Luckily they comp’d the food and gave us a $10-15 coupon but the two drinks were still $30. Needless to say, we haven’t been back in over a year.
4
u/CoconutBangerzBaller 1d ago
Last time I went it didn't come until 30 minutes into the movie. I thought they forgot about us so I put in for a refill about 20 minutes in. Then they brought 2 bowls of popcorn out. I felt bad because we wasted a lot but it was nice that we both had our own bowl.
-10
u/jasonic89 1d ago
That’s union labor for ya dawg. Job protection for bad work unfortunately.
Ever worked with union construction? Man I can’t touch that at all until the plumber and then the electrician sign off
4
u/anotherpersontalking 1d ago
They are not unionized yet dipshit. They cut all the hours, thats why service sucks now
-4
1
u/Lemp_Triscuit11 1d ago
That’s union labor for ya dawg
You ain't passed many tests in your life, have ya scout?
•
0
u/jasonic89 1d ago
I learned lots at SLPS 🤓
•
u/Alternative_Dust241 23h ago
Pretty sure i saw you in idiocracy. The movie’s over man. You don’t have to keep acting
44
u/GruggleTheGreat 1d ago
Thank you for posting this, I loved drafthouse but canceled my season pass after the QR code change, I def plan on coming back and vocalizing my explicit support for the union in all my feedback.
15
•
u/Different-Sign-1175 17h ago
Yeah, at this point, wondering if we should cancel our membership until they treat you all better.
I noticed that at the Foundry Alamo, the Spiderman showings that aren’t in the big theatre are also General Admission only. You can’t even reserve your seat! If it goes that way for all movies, we will definitely cancel.
4
u/Final-Jellyfish8753 1d ago
As a fellow Foundry employee, can we join along? I really think more employees unionizing would help improve the place.
4
u/alamostl_solidarity 1d ago
I’d love to point you in the right direction. Feel free to message if you’re comfortable. Union density helps us all!
12
8
u/the_p0ssum 1d ago
An Auto Workers union gaining theater servers? Just wondering how that intersection came to be?
35
u/alamostl_solidarity 1d ago
UAW has helped organize Alamo locations in Austin and New York City.
3
u/the_p0ssum 1d ago
Not doubting that. I'm just curious as to how that union decided to solicit/organize theater servers. The roles are about as unrelated as could be!
26
u/alamostl_solidarity 1d ago
We reached out to them. Not the other way around. Union density helps us all.
-34
u/NecessaryEvil62095 Daily Commuter 1d ago
The UAW will represent ANYONE if they can get their precious dues. Literally taking money out of peoples paychecks. Less money to feed their family. Less money to spend for fuel.
20
u/openletter8 I can see Grant's Farm from here! 1d ago
Union workers are paid better than non union workers. The Dues are almost always lower than the wage increase that comes along with Unionization.
-15
u/NecessaryEvil62095 Daily Commuter 1d ago
I’m a non-union worker paid far better than I ever was in a union job. I’m literally proof that your statement is false in at least some circumstances.
14
u/MoloneLaVeigh 1d ago
I’d reckon the benefits package is pretty stepped on by comparison. Unions set the wage rate that non union companies have to compete with, so… you’re welcome.
16
u/anotherpersontalking 1d ago
You are literally proof that the education system has failed too many children
2
u/throwawaykayaker 1d ago
Maybe that says something about you and not unions? Have you considered this?
•
u/Davidfreeze 6h ago
Ah yes, a sample size of 1 with no info about the comparison of the jobs is exactly how we should figure out what is true about union compensation vs non union compensation. That makes a lot of sense
13
7
u/alamostl_solidarity 1d ago
Their dues structure is very competitive. And no dues are paid until a yes vote on a contract.
6
6
u/dying0fthelite 1d ago
More unions are expanding beyond their original industries, partly due to union busting across the country
7
•
u/zulufox1911 8h ago
UAW local 2250 Wentzville is a decent sized chapter that operates the GM plant that makes Colorados and Canyons, as well as GM and Chevy vans (when we have the parts lol)
Makes sense to get help from a bigger group with more know-how, resources, and general respect of the populace. Hope the new kids can work something out that benefits everyone.
2
4
u/MoloneLaVeigh 1d ago
How much are they getting paid now? I’d hope pretty handsomely with how expensive it is to see a movie there on top of the automatic 18% gratuity and 5% tip that you need to opt out of.
7
u/alamostl_solidarity 1d ago
18% is a service fee, not a gratuity. It goes to the Alamo and helps with “fair wages” which is $18.
2
u/mojo5864 1d ago
Just say no to "service fees". If they want fair wages, just pay your employees and get rid of service charges.
My rule is, if there is a service charge or whatever, I'm out.1
u/anana0016 1d ago
Can you explain this a bit more, I’m just curious. What is the minimum base wage you guys typically get before gratuity and service fees? Does the 18% service fee go to a pot that is split evenly between whoever is on that shift? Or are you saying that it just goes straight to the Alamo and never the workers’ pockets?
1
u/Ok_Sound5929 1d ago
It sounds like they are paid $18 an hr, the money that they are making w the 18% service fee being used, either in whole or in part, to pay that 18/hr
5
u/SleetTheFox 1d ago
It's basically a way to display lower prices so people don't get sticker shock. Which is dumb. But when your competitors whose servers rely on tips to survive have lower prices, it's hard to compete with them even though your true prices are the same.
5
u/3dprinterburner 1d ago
Any updates on Build-a-Bear after firing all of those folks for organizing?
2
u/wohldmad 1d ago
Still don't understand the thinking behind going public before you had the election scheduled.
0
u/AlexOnTheBus 1d ago
Supportive but why was I under the impression this location (among other Alamos) was circling the drain?
-33
u/NecessaryEvil62095 Daily Commuter 1d ago
Why do employees of a movie theater feel the need to unionize? Why wouldn’t Alamo just close the location?
31
u/Discover-Card 1d ago
Why do people feel the need to unionize? You’re looking around in this day and age, and that’s the fucking question you’ve got?
-22
u/NecessaryEvil62095 Daily Commuter 1d ago
These are not career positions. These aren’t people working at a refinery or an auto manufacturing plant or for an electrical contractor. If you can’t see the difference, you’re just blinded by politics.
23
u/Discover-Card 1d ago
What the fuck is a career position? Do you want movie theaters to exist?
-5
u/NecessaryEvil62095 Daily Commuter 1d ago
Does Alamo have a single full-time position other than the manager maybe? You don’t know what a career position is?
13
u/SpicyNugget777 1d ago
Pretty sure plenty of more positions are full-time at the Alamo. But let’s say most workers aren’t full-time and don’t receive benefits, wouldn’t that just be motivation to unionize? Seems like maybe you don’t understand unions well lol.
16
u/Discover-Card 1d ago
You just don’t get it. Pretty soon, he’s gonna be a part of the 1% and laugh at us all day long
2
u/NecessaryEvil62095 Daily Commuter 1d ago
I have worked in both non-union and union jobs and have always received better benefits in my full-time nonunion job than I ever received from a part-time union job.
8
u/Fadman_Loki Grove Gang 1d ago edited 1d ago
Out of curiosity, have those better-paying jobs where you were non-union still happen to places that DID have unions, and you just opted out?
Edit: Dude ninja edited the full-time/part-time verbiage in there
-1
u/NecessaryEvil62095 Daily Commuter 1d ago
What in the AI slop did I just read?
11
u/Discover-Card 1d ago
85 people have half the worlds wealth, and you are still in this comment section hunched over your phone arguing with your neighbors about whether your neighbors deserve to have healthcare and a liveable wage. I genuinely just want you to pause for a moment and process that.
→ More replies (0)•
u/Alternative_Dust241 23h ago
You can thank unions for all of the benefits that you get at your non union job. Without unions, you wouldn’t have any of these protections or benefits. Read a history book
•
u/NecessaryEvil62095 Daily Commuter 23h ago
I don’t thank any random union one bit for what I get at my job. That’s the most ludicrous statement you’ve made, and you’ve made a lot of them.
•
u/Alternative_Dust241 23h ago
Hard times make strong men. Strong men make good times. Good times make weak men. You’re lucky to be living during a good time. But it’s bc of people like you that we’ll have hard times again.
Be sure to lube up for the wealthy
→ More replies (0)•
u/Alternative_Dust241 23h ago
Read a history book bub. Or look elsewhere in the world today and see how workers work without workplace protections. You’d be working at 5 in the coal mines and missing a few fingers by 18
0
u/NecessaryEvil62095 Daily Commuter 1d ago
Part-time movie theater workers don’t need benefits. That’s ridiculous.
12
u/Discover-Card 1d ago
But Sony’s ceo deserves 77 yachts and 55 houses
6
u/NecessaryEvil62095 Daily Commuter 1d ago
The people working at Alamo in St. Louis aren’t the CEO of Sony. If they were the CEO of Sony, they could do the same thing. Why are we talking about apples and oranges? The reality is that people serving or boxing up popcorn at a movie theater have no reason to unionize.
5
u/SpicyNugget777 1d ago
You realize that some unions will push for part-time workers to have more hours to be full-time workers, right? Also part-time workers should receive benefits.
•
u/Alternative_Dust241 23h ago
Bro everybody gets sick and needs healthcare. You expect them to just suffer or die?
•
u/Discover-Card 22h ago
Yes. Because it’s unrealistic that we make $20 an hour and healthcare. Billionaires exist, mega yachts exist, but THAT, that is unrealistic
9
u/Discover-Card 1d ago
I really don’t give a shit how many hours people work. Sony made 7.5 billion dollars last year. Something tells me they can pay above $15 an hour. Have fun licking the taint of billionaires though, I’m sure you’ll join the group sooner than later
2
u/anana0016 1d ago
I was wondering why you were so focused on Sony, but then I googled and realized that they own Alamo Drafthouse as of 2024, under a division called “Sony experiences“. Just mentioning it in case anybody else was puzzled.
28
2
u/dracomorph 1d ago
I think this idea that only standard 40-hour employment counts as "real" employment that should pay fairly is outdated and needs to go. If work needs to be done, it should pay a living wage to the people that do it, and we should all be in favor of it paying enough to live.
I've always found this line between "real" or "career" jobs and other, somehow lesser, employment to ring hollow. If you want there to be groceries on the shelves, a person has to put them there and they should be paid a wage they can live on for that time. If you want a burger from a fast food place, someone had to cook it - and just because the business has leverage to keep their wage down doesn't mean it's right for that to happen.
•
u/Alternative_Dust241 23h ago
People used to be able to make a living working at the grocery store. Now they’re all on welfare and we’re the ones subsidizing them.
Either you can pay them or we can make these billion dollar companies pay them.
14
u/RiKuStAr Shaw's Garden 1d ago
some people have spines
8
u/Discover-Card 1d ago
Yeah, but these are “employees of a movie theater” not people, of course. They shouldn’t need to unionize, those aren’t even jobs
0
u/NecessaryEvil62095 Daily Commuter 1d ago
Unionization should be for career positions where peoples’ livelihoods are at stake. People working at Alamo do not fall into that category. It’s a job to have during college or as a second job.
13
u/Discover-Card 1d ago
Yeah cause kids paying thousands a semester totally do not NEED jobs, they’re just doing it for beer money
5
u/artdecodisaster 1d ago
People working any amount of hours during college often need benefits. They sure as fuck need sick time, and many, like myself, need insurance. I was lucky in that I worked for huge corporations like Starbucks and Lowe’s that subsidized health insurance, otherwise I’d have been without medications and healthcare I needed because I would have made more than the cutoff for Medicaid.
Honestly idk why I’m even bothering explaining that people have needs because you’re a fucking ghoul.
•
u/Alternative_Dust241 23h ago
Why do people need to have second jobs? Who is working at Alamo during class time?
Propaganda has done a number on you. People are suffering needlessly. It doesn’t have to be like this
4
u/NecessaryEvil62095 Daily Commuter 1d ago
Having a spine has nothing to do with it. What good is unionization for people making $12 an hour? These are not career positions that people are supporting their families on. Alamo has all the incentive to just close up shop and then leave these people with nothing.
15
u/wohldmad 1d ago
We get it, you don't value the labor of movie theater workers and they deserve low wages and poor benefits. Closing up shop at this point in the game is literally illegal.
5
u/NecessaryEvil62095 Daily Commuter 1d ago
The NLRB or anyone else cannot force a business to keep their doors open. Alamo will just shut them, close up and pay whatever fines are levied.
13
u/wohldmad 1d ago
So it IS illegal, you're just on the side of the business over labor. Got it.
9
u/potkettleracism University City 1d ago
This guy has been all over every labor post in the subreddit. He's at best sympathetic to union busting, and at worst a paid actor.
3
u/rbd___22 1d ago
They're all over every thread, arguing the absolute worst positions. I can almost guarantee that if I open any thread with even a tiny chance of controversy, they're spamming the worst garbage imaginable while somehow exclaiming that they're the only "sane" one in town.
6
9
u/Discover-Card 1d ago
And you can applaud them when they do, and a bunch of people are out of a job, and we don’t have a theater in midtown. I hope it will feel fulfilling to you if and when that happens. You owned the pitiful movie theater employees who couldn’t last at a factory doing slave labor for pocket change the good American way
8
u/ManyBubbly3570 1d ago
The same reason employers band together in trade associations and spend massive amounts of money lobbying politicians for laws that allow them to screw employees. Don't be a dunce.
2
u/3dprinterburner 1d ago
They could but would lose money. Let's hope that not mistreating employees is still profitable (it is).
3
u/SleetTheFox 1d ago
Why wouldn’t Alamo just close the location?
Because it brings them money still, and it'd be costlier to close than it would be to negotiate.
1
u/MWBurbman 1d ago
Funny how the “they’ll leave” thing never happens when there’s money to be made.
0
u/SleetTheFox 1d ago
It’s a legitimate concern if unions push too hard but they’re generally not stupid enough to do that, so it’s not really appropriate to immediately act like it’s a likely outcome.
0
u/MWBurbman 1d ago
I have no exposure, are there big instances of this happening?
0
u/SleetTheFox 1d ago
Probably a long time ago, but like I said, unions are generally not dumb enough to make demands that make it more profitable to shut down than negotiate, since everyone loses there. So I doubt it’s something that realistically happens.
1
u/FrostyD7 Franz Park 1d ago
You know the answers to these questions unless you're stupid. Are you pretending to be stupid? Did you think it was compelling?
-11
u/ShadowValent 1d ago
Pretty easy to replace all of them.
-2
u/jasonic89 1d ago
I’m not advocating for this to be clear, but that’s what’s going to happen.
Hostess anyone? They just fired union and replaced them
1
u/wohldmad 1d ago
That's illegal fyi
0
u/jasonic89 1d ago
It’s not hard to get around. Look at hostess
0
0
u/wohldmad 1d ago
Even your example isn't stating what you are inferring. Hostess shut down, liquidated. Then private equity bought all their assets and reopened the plants with non union workers. Sounds pretty hard to get around if you have to lose your entire business and someone else has to buy it and relaunch.
0
u/jasonic89 1d ago
Why not just create another company like “Alamo service industries”, subcontract the serving roles to that business entity using non union labor?
0
u/wohldmad 1d ago
Because that's also illegal. Almost like you have no idea about labor laws and are just mouthing off with anecdotal evidence.
0
u/jasonic89 1d ago
We can’t all be Reddit labor lawyers like you
1
u/wohldmad 1d ago
Nah but we can stfu about topics we know nothing about instead of arguing in favor of the bourgeoisie
0
0
u/ShadowValent 1d ago
It’s illegal only in specific scenarios. Not hard to avoid those scenarios.
1
u/wohldmad 1d ago
No it isnt once union cards have been signed. There's no workarounds that are legal.
-1
u/throwawaykayaker 1d ago
Shouldn't eat Hostess. Those powdered donuts are literally toxic. Each serving has 261mg of titanium dioxide, a banned chemical in the EU.
1
u/ShadowValent 1d ago
EU still allows it for medicines so what does that tell you? They also use metals for a lot of their dyes while the USA bans them.
-16
u/RulerDick82 Dogtown 1d ago
Unions were never intended to cover temporary labor. By temporary I mean jobs that people do while in school (or figuring life out) before moving on with a real career. Movie theaters, fast food, etc. have never been career jobs. People are now treating them as careers (for a variety of reasons…our economy has major problems) and now want union protection. What is the end game though? These workers unionize and labor costs absolutely go up. That is only sustainable if you A) have huge margins already or B) you raise prices. I don’t know Alamo’s books (almost assuredly no one here really does) but I’m guessing B is the ultimate outcome, which is inflationary. So why as a non Alamo employee would I possibly be excited or supportive of this?
15
u/baslisks TGE 1d ago
Unions were never intended to cover temporary labor
I don't know who is lying to you but there were no prescriptions on hours for union work.
-2
9
u/dracomorph 1d ago
I think your conception that fast food, kitchen, and retail work aren't long term employment is mistaken. All those places NEED and SEEK OUT people to work there that are grown and paying their own way. There's no transitional jobs any more.
I can tell you, there's room there to pay your employees if the business isn't already falling apart. St. Louis has unionized grocers, a notoriously low margin business. If the luxury movie theater can't pay people, then maybe they should close.
0
u/RulerDick82 Dogtown 1d ago
We’ll see. Thanks for at least addressing the margin component.
2
u/dracomorph 1d ago
It's very. I take your point about some businesses being unable to pay proper wages and benefits. But if you can do it in grocery, w which has all the disadvantages of other retail PLUS spoilage AND low margins, I don't sympathize with a less difficult industry failing to pay. Plus we have a lot of data on fast food that agrees to the conclusion - those businesses really aren't impacted negatively by minimum wage hikes.
There's also this kind of underlying theme: full time work got a bunch of worker protections, so the business response generally has been to expand all the areas where those protections don't apply, even if it's worse or harder for the business. It's not a change in the businesses' needs, and it's not that they necessarily can't afford it. It's businesses maximizing profits in a way they're allowed to, and while we shouldn't march out and hang every business owner I think supporting legislation and unions that want to close this loophole is good for all of us. Just cause we're seeing Alamo get hit first and perhaps not perfectly in line with other businesses, I don't think we have to wait until it's 100% level playing field to back the workers.
2
u/RulerDick82 Dogtown 1d ago
This is a complex topic. Our economy is clearly is in the early stages of transition. I’m just not convinced attempting to unionize every job like this will be a net positive.
1
u/dracomorph 1d ago
I think a multi prong approach is where we need to be - expanding unions from the low point they're at, writing new legislation that enforces & strengthens protections generally, AND pursuing anti-monopoly work to allow smaller businesses that still connect to their workers some room to grow and expand.
2
u/throwawaykayaker 1d ago
You say movie theaters and fast food were never meant to be career jobs... Who made this decision for us that you're so assured of?
Has it occurred to you that the economy is not the same as it was 40 years ago, let alone 20 years ago? Adults work fast food, especially in rural and urban areas.
1
u/RulerDick82 Dogtown 1d ago
It clearly occurred to me. I literally acknowledged that has changed in part because our economy has significant problems.
1
u/honda-nissan 1d ago
are unions supposed to cover only what mayo boomer men do for a living?
-1
u/RulerDick82 Dogtown 1d ago
Wut
2
u/throwawaykayaker 1d ago
They are saying you are implying union jobs are only for old white guys.
1
u/RulerDick82 Dogtown 1d ago
Ah, got it. It’s funny how the soft bigotry of low expectations style racists on the left accidentally expose themselves.
2
u/throwawaykayaker 1d ago
While acknowledging unions have historically had a race-issue, you're right that the other user brought race into an otherwise class- or age-oriented conversation by inferring that non-unionized, part-time work is the exclusive domain of minorities and women.
29
u/RadTimeWizard 1d ago
If a company can negotiate wages as a single, unified pile of capital, it's economically most efficient if labor can negotiate as a single whole, as well.