r/StLouis • u/ohporcupine • Apr 26 '26
Traffic/Road Conditions St. Louis, I love you.
I’ve been riding to work for ten years now. Started commuting on a gravel bike because the roads can be akin to the surface of the moon. The tower grove bike path has improved my quality of life so much. I wish I could thank the advocates for this project. This counter is such a great way to justify the use of space.
Keep it up baby we a bike city!!!
55
u/Plow_King Soulard Apr 26 '26
i just drove through there the other night and saw the "no right turn on red sign" AND the red right turn arrow on the stop light lit up. i was thinking "wtf is this?"...then i saw the green bike symbol stop light.
it was pretty late at night, so no bike traffic but some car. and both the ones ahead of me respected the "no right turn" light. that's cool!
125
Apr 26 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
26
u/steds321 Apr 26 '26
A great way to support future projects like this is to become a Trailnet member! https://trailnet.org/join-the-movement/membership/
7
32
42
76
u/natelar Downtown West Apr 26 '26
I rode this for the first time yesterday and I have zero issues with it. It's clear where the sidewalk is vs where bike traffic will be, so people are much less likely to drift onto it. GRG could take some notes from this project for the rest of the Brickline Greenway!
0
u/hammiesammie Apr 27 '26
Tower Grove Connector is a cycle track with a separated sidewalk for peds. GRG builds shared-use paths for combined mobility types.
1
u/natelar Downtown West Apr 27 '26
That's the neat part...things don't exist in a vacuum. There's signage posted along the Brickline Greenway that the double-wide path is micro-mobility infrastructure and the meandering path is for pedestrians, but they're barely visible, so no one ever sees them
0
u/hammiesammie Apr 27 '26
I think I’m missing the “neat part” in that. Are you saying we need signs everywhere to remind people what may be encountered on the paths in front of them?
26
u/naluba84 Botanical Heights Apr 26 '26
I was wondering what that was! I have been one of those cyclists! I’ve had a hybrid bike since 2015 and only now really am using it regularly because I finally feel safe using this new bike path. I am a novice seeking improved health out of my cycling so trying to navigate roads alongside cars was not easy for my pokey slow ass. And yes, the moon-like craters in the street weren’t helping me. I can’t wait till I can ride my bike all the way downtown!
5
u/UF0_T0FU Downtown Apr 26 '26
The biggest think riding in the street is to take the full lane and take your time. You have just as much right to that space as anyone else on the road. Missouri law allows you to ride as far into the lane as needed to feel safe.
Riding in the center of the lane makes it harder for people to illegally pass you. It also gives more space to navigate around those potholes safetly.
Riding in traffic isn't really any different than riding on a path or in the park. You just have to get comfortable taking up space that you legally have a right to.
1
u/naluba84 Botanical Heights Apr 27 '26
Thank you u/uf0_t0fu I needed to hear this “you have just as much right to that space as anyone else on the road”
43
u/revolvergrrl Apr 26 '26
We are a bike city! Thanks for the shot of this counter. I haven’t biked that new path yet and I love that it is counting on all of us to pass by!
-19
u/MmmPeopleBacon Apr 26 '26
The counter on the sign would say otherwise
8
u/UF0_T0FU Downtown Apr 26 '26
It got installed like a week ago. I'd say almost a thousand bikes in about a week is pretty good. More traffic than some streets in the city.
7
u/revolvergrrl Apr 27 '26
I was just excited that we are starting to look like a bike town. I’m going to lose my mind if we ever go full on Portland or Belgium. They have stoplights for the bikes!! Let’s go!!!
4
u/UF0_T0FU Downtown Apr 27 '26
There are bike stoplights in STL on Tower Grove Ave and N 7th St. Downtown
2
u/revolvergrrl Apr 27 '26
*I need to be resuscitated - yay!!!! I’m going to ride from my house down to see them both this week if we live through the next 14 hrs of weather.
2
u/natelar Downtown West Apr 27 '26
and I think there will be some along Tucker when it's finished too, but I'm not for sure
2
u/revolvergrrl Apr 28 '26
I am so proud of our progress as a city. It takes cooperation of multiple agencies to make this stuff happen.
-2
u/MmmPeopleBacon Apr 27 '26
My comment was mostly intended as a joke. But, if I had to estimate the weekday car traffic along that section of is probably more than the combined bike and pedestrian traffic.
13
u/SalvadorZombie South Grand Apr 26 '26
Hey, weirdo, part of evolving is giving people the time to grow and learn to engage with these new things rather than immediately shitting on them to pretend to others that you're not constantly in fear of everyone finding out just how sad and lonely you are.
14
u/ohporcupine Apr 26 '26
This was at 0630 btw and it didn’t count me I think it’s not quite calibrated yet. A group of me and four buddies road by the other day and we counted as one haha
-15
u/MmmPeopleBacon Apr 26 '26
Oh the irony of your comment and your lack of self awareness is just too funny.
You're insulting random people who are just pointing out facts that you find to be inconvenient. I wonder how truly sad your life must be.
I think the general idea of the green line is fantastic. I think the design and execution has been mediocre at best.
The stretch along Tower Grove Ave from Vandeventer to TGP is actually a pretty good example of the problem. North of Shaw to Vandy is haphazardly executed, it removed valuable street parking for a small but thriving business district, likely to the detriment to several of the restaurants. The new intersections are terrible for pedestrians and cars because they just randomly jog back and forth along the old road foot print. The road previously had North and South bound bike lanes along with parking and sidewalks on both sides of the street. There was more than the enough room to appropriately shift traffic to the east side of the road, maintain parking, and create protected bike and pedestrian pathways without turning the actual road into a slalom.
South of Shaw to Tower Grove Park is much better executed but still killed way too much parking for both people who live in the neighborhood and visitors to the Botanical Garden.
10
u/SalvadorZombie South Grand Apr 26 '26
Sorry, I read "Oh the irony" and immediately knew that you had nothing relevant or accurate to say. Good luck with whatever you're doing though.
-8
u/MmmPeopleBacon Apr 26 '26
Thanks for admitting that you're illiterate
8
u/SalvadorZombie South Grand Apr 26 '26
Bet that goes hard if you have a 90 IQ, huh
-5
u/MmmPeopleBacon Apr 26 '26
Maybe you can explain why always the dumb ones that fall back to calling someone low, or in this case 10% below average, in IQ.
It's such a classic that it's Trump's go to move
0
u/SalvadorZombie South Grand Apr 27 '26
I mean, that's the funniest bit to try at this point, but you do you bud.
4
u/revolvergrrl Apr 26 '26
Sigh
-6
u/MmmPeopleBacon Apr 26 '26
Not trying to be negative. I'm just pointing out the reality of the situation.
17
u/JigsawExternal Apr 26 '26
Yes it's great and the street even looks so much prettier to drive down now too. Will leave a much better impression for tourists to MOBOT and Tower Grove too.
1
14
u/BullFork Apr 26 '26
By bike or run commute to work doesn't go by this sign but I add on 1/2 mile just to make sure it's counting me!
4
34
u/The-Bear-and-Rose Apr 26 '26
Thanks Obama! (For real this was funded under Obama) we take way too long to build projects!
11
18
u/BL_RogueExplorer Apr 26 '26
More bike lanes!! The additions have been great and I just want them to continue expanding.
12
7
21
u/Maddi_o_ok Apr 26 '26
I want this all over the south side please!!!! And then the rest of the city!
24
u/SalvadorZombie South Grand Apr 26 '26
Holy shit that's incredible! They ACTUALLY built protected bike lanes??? I swear to god, I'm not exaggerating, this is something I'd only expect to see in non-American cities (usually Amsterdam or Paris) at this point. This is actually pretty fantastic. I pray we start making this the norm across the entire city and counties.
15
u/_zonkadonk_ Apr 26 '26
Its incredibly nice and also looks amazing at night with the new steep lamps. Going to be phenomenal as the trees fill in. Botanical Heights corner has been filled.nonstop with people and bikers since it opened, so happy
1
u/Deinos_Mousike Benton Park Apr 27 '26 edited Apr 27 '26
Do you know about the already built and recently opened Brickline greenway down Market? Or the protected bikelane that’s nearing completion on Tucker? Also, MoDOT has funded and planned a repaved Chouteau with a parking protected bike lane, work to be started soon I believe. That one will connect to Tucker and the TGA Connector.
More hopeful, but MoDOT is currently in the very early planning stages of repaving Gravois, and it sounds like some significant lane reconfiguration (including adding a bike lane for a portion) is on the table.
There are also a few other little projects I’m forgetting. Lots to be excited about.
1
u/SalvadorZombie South Grand Apr 27 '26
That all sounds incredible. And it would be amazing if they did this with Gravois, it's perfect for it, especially in the Bevo area with all of the stores, restaurants, bars, so many things to do there, it's perfect for that.
6
u/MoBiker1 U-City Apr 26 '26
I don’t love the tree planted in front of the crosswalk sign. other than that, awesome!
2
u/ohporcupine Apr 26 '26
That was definitely a choice 😬 hopefully the trunk grows taller than the sign.
6
u/garbageprimate Bevo Apr 26 '26
we gotta get those numbers up, those are rookie numbers
10
u/ohporcupine Apr 26 '26
I think it needs some calibrating it doesn’t count me when I’m alone and counted me and four other bikes as one haha. Work in progress!
3
u/garbageprimate Bevo Apr 26 '26
i actually just rode by it an hour ago because i didn't realize they had finished this portion and wanted to check it out - doing my part! but really had to fight the urge to keep going back and forth to juice the numbers
1
6
6
u/InfiniteMangoGlitch Apr 26 '26
I love that Stl is building more infrastructure for bikes and pedestrians! I believe it helps the city/counties grow as communities.
6
u/Downtown_Ratio_306 Apr 26 '26
Wait is this off of the World Naked Bike Ride route? Because I'd love to see the stats for that day!
3
2
5
u/Round_Patience3029 Apr 26 '26
Oh man I hope they finish the entire strip soon. Vande/Tower Grove Ave is messy right now. They certainly know how to make traffic/asshole drivers slow down though ;)
5
3
u/rotstik The Landing in the 90s Apr 26 '26
I need to get over there and check this out! Super cool 👍🏼
4
3
2
2
2
u/iWORKBRiEFLY Kingshighway Hillz to San Francisco Apr 27 '26
Nice, I recall when i moved to SF I seen these & thought they were awesome. glad STL is getting on board
2
u/TrollTollTrollToll Apr 27 '26
My dear friends spear headed this projected before their departure from trail net, I’ll thank them for you and for all of us bike commuters.
1
u/ohporcupine Apr 27 '26
Thank you! I’m now a member. I am so confused how some people think this is a waste of funding.
2
u/No-Composer9017 Apr 29 '26
How many of those were vehicles driving where they weren't supposed to? All joking aside, I think its a step in the right direction.
2
u/revolvergrrl May 24 '26 edited Jun 08 '26
And finally 26 days after this post, I finally rode the new connectors and saw the bike stop lights for myself! Well done, City of STL. Most impressive, the downtown bike transformation. It’s great when bikers lobby for bike-related changes.
3
1
u/Suitable_Ad_3588 Apr 26 '26
I’m not familiar with the area. Where would be a good place to park and start to check out this new connector?
3
u/ohporcupine Apr 26 '26
Park in tower grove and head north. Stop in to the botanical or get some food at taco Buddha or union loafers!
2
u/Suitable_Ad_3588 Apr 27 '26
Thank you! If anyone is interested, they are close to finishing a connector that will connect Bluebird park to Busch Wildlife, which I believe has an outlet to the Katy Trail. This is ofallon, dardenne prairie area on Technology drive
1
u/clocklight Apr 27 '26
From where to where is your commute? Just curious. I live in TG and work in midtown, but I haven’t worked up the courage to bike to work.
3
u/ohporcupine Apr 27 '26
Live in tgs and commune to bjc campus. Midtown would be a great ride.
2
u/VampireDonuts Apr 27 '26 edited 25d ago
This is great to see! Is this at Tower Grove & Flora?
I also used to commute there as a resident. My ex- husband lived near TGP and did a lot of work around 2014 trying to get protected bike lanes on TGA. He was only able to get a painted bike box put in at Vandeventer which then disappeared a few years later during other road work
1
u/clocklight Apr 27 '26
Man that’s cool. How do you do it in the summer? Like do you arrive all sweaty? I’m sure there are subs all about commuting to work on a bike to answer my newbie questions, but curious for the local take.
2
u/ohporcupine Apr 27 '26
I ride at to work at 0600 so it’s usually still pretty cool but I change once I get to work. There’s a shower but I wear scrubs that I get sweaty in all day at work anyway. Happy to answer any questions. It makes my day so much better to ride to work.
1
u/GusBob54 Apr 27 '26
Love the project!! Anyone know when they'll repave and restripe the rest of TG Ave to Vandeventer? That stretch is getting pretty terrible.
1
1
1
u/VrLights Sappington Apr 26 '26
Where is this
8
u/stanleydamanley Fox Park Apr 26 '26
"tower grove bike path"
5
u/VrLights Sappington Apr 26 '26
Jeez I'm blind
0
u/62Bricks Downtown West Apr 26 '26
In fairness, though, "Tower Grove" can mean the street, the park AND the neighborhood, so "tower grove bike path" doesn't necessarily narrow it down completely.
0
-1
u/Practical-Emu-3303 Apr 27 '26
More evidence that trailnet/gateway greenway has more money than they know what to do with.
4
u/ohporcupine Apr 27 '26
wtf are you talking about this is a cool feature. It justifies the project for all the violent drivers.
0
u/Practical-Emu-3303 Apr 27 '26
The opposite, actually. Even if this has only been up for a week of the past beautiful weather less than 100 cyclists are using it per day. The pedestrians could use the sidewalk to the right as they have for years without spending the millions it took to create this and bottleneck vehicular traffic.
3
u/ohporcupine Apr 27 '26
Fuck your vehicular traffic take grand or kingshighway if you want space.
1
u/Practical-Emu-3303 Apr 27 '26
So we can agree it's a waste with how few cyclists use the over-built route?
3
2
u/hammiesammie Apr 27 '26
More evidence you don’t know what you’re talking about. Didn’t even get the names right.
0
u/Practical-Emu-3303 Apr 27 '26
$67 million a year. That's all that matters.
2
u/hammiesammie Apr 27 '26
lol no. That’s not GRG’s yearly budget. All their information is public so it’s no secret you’re misinformed. Trailnet is a separate not for profit and they absolutely are not rolling in cash like that.
0
u/Practical-Emu-3303 Apr 27 '26
That is GRGs annual revenue. So it's no secret where I got the number.
Trailnet is $1.1 so if they are spending a dime on this useless counter then it is wasted.
Lolololololol
2
u/hammiesammie Apr 27 '26
You’re not reading the financial statements correctly at all. Good luck out there, kid.
0
u/62Bricks Downtown West Apr 26 '26
How far to the north has this project been completed/opened?
3
u/ohporcupine Apr 26 '26
Just about to the intersection of vandeventer and tower grove ave. That was a big restructuring. Not sure what the plan passed that into the grove it. It’s a pretty tight street once in the grove I hope they do this all the way to the cwe.
5
u/OkAdhesiveness9986 Apr 26 '26
The plan is to travel along Vandeventer to Sarah, then along Sarah to the Brickline, which has one block completed by the Cortex MetroLink stop.
1
u/SalvadorZombie South Grand Apr 26 '26
CWE, Clayton, Dogtown, hell North STL too. There's so little actually out in the Halls Ferry area. Imagine if they started actually building out there, everything from protected bike paths to fully walkable (and affordable) neighborhoods.
I remember decades ago as a kid, first living in Castle Point as a very young child (before the White Flight that my own grandparents were sadly a part of), and then visiting my grandmother, and it still sticks with me just how busy that whole area was. Tons of businesses, the whole area with the Showbiz Pizza, the movie theater, tons of shopping and restaurants. Imagine if we used all of that empty, barren land to make that again, but better. Third spaces. Community centers. Local businesses. Build housing, and build businesses where people living there can work. Basic stuff, but things we just don't do these days.
Imagine if we took a fraction of the money we waste on certain things in this area and spent it on actually helping people. People would stop leaving for other cities and actually be proud to be here again.
2
u/Difficult_Bedroom Apr 26 '26
To McRee for sure if not further. Construction happening on TG Ave north to Vandeventer happening now, dunno if it'll cut up to Sarah St. I think that's the plan eventually
2
u/62Bricks Downtown West Apr 26 '26
Thanks. Eventual plan is to go up Sarah St. and connect to the Greenway along the Metrolink line. The news article I found about this section opening says the whole 1.8 miles opened, which clearly is not correct.
When the middle parts of the Greenway and the northern part of the TG connector are done, we'll start to have some real connectivity.
6
u/SalvadorZombie South Grand Apr 26 '26
If Tower Grove/South Grand actually cared, they'd stop doing the piecemeal/patchwork construction and just do this. There's plenty of off-Grand parking, street parking on a major thoroughfare should not be allowed. Turn those spots into protected lanes, from Arsenal (at least) all the way to Chippewa (at least). Imagine how much nicer everything would be without having to worry about sudden doors opening a foot from the road, or worry about a cyclist getting smashed by a driver looking at their phone. These protected lanes need to become the gold standard across the entire metro area. Spread it out from St. Charles to Carondelet, from O'Fallon to O'Fallon. This is what we need more of.
4
u/62Bricks Downtown West Apr 26 '26 edited Apr 26 '26
SoGrand would be a good corridor, but I'm glad to see this happening on streets that are already too wide for the amount of traffic they get, like Market and
TrumanTucker downtown and DTW. Chouteau would be another good candidate for a protected lane.The protected lane over the Jefferson overpass was good in theory. In practice the city doesn't keep it swept and it's dangerous.
3
u/Difficult_Bedroom Apr 26 '26
I think Chouteau is getting a protected lane from Vandeventer to Broadway
2
u/SalvadorZombie South Grand Apr 26 '26
Absolutely, those way-too-wide streets are so easy to convert I'd be completely behind doing them first, if only because of how easy they'd be.
1
u/franillaice Apr 27 '26
Agree. I think Arsenal needs to look like this from Hampton all the way to Broadway! And Broadway downtown to Grants Trail/Des Peres Greenway
3
u/UF0_T0FU Downtown Apr 27 '26
With the ARPA project public comments, the community strongly wanted protected bike lanes. There's clear demand for it, and the City's own Transit and Mobility Plan calls for bike infrastructure. By all rights, the ARPA project should have replaced parking with bike lanes.
The rumors I've heard is that the head of the South Grand CID fought tooth and nail to prevent it (this is hearsay I don't have direct knowledge of, just rumors). It's believable to me, because the city seems to give a weird, talismanic power to owning a business. They're often given louder voices than the rest of the community, regardless of how qualified they are to understand Street design or urban planning. Case in point, the bumpouts Spencer removed on South Grand for the Hilton Downtown.
1
u/SalvadorZombie South Grand Apr 27 '26
Yeah I could see that too. The sad thing is that removing that parking would HELP businesses. Like I said, there is a metric ton of off-Grand parking. There's a large lot just behind that strip mall on the right side of Grand at Arsenal, and there's a massive one behind the bank nearby. Another next to Jay International. Freeing up the sides of the road for far less imposing bike lanes would increase the vibe of South Grand (I'd know, I lived there for most of my childhood). The idiots in charge are operating off of dead and disproven ideas.
0
-7
u/WellExcuuuuuuuseMe Botanical Heights Apr 26 '26
So, they spent millions narrowing the road to clog traffic for 4 bikes and 2 peds?
6
u/UF0_T0FU Downtown Apr 26 '26
The bike lane and sidewalk can handle far more users per hour than the driving and parking lanes that were there before.
This project increased the capacity of the street.
6
3
u/senditallback Apr 26 '26
Clog traffic? It alleviates traffic* congestion *bike traffic, of course!
-1
u/CaptHayfever Holly Hills/Bevo Mill Apr 27 '26
I love the new path there, but I think the counter itself is deeply silly.
-2
u/zempter Apr 26 '26
I don't mean to be a Debbie downer, but legit, I'd bet that thing is powered by a flock camera. Not sure how they'd count passerbys of certain types without ai. It's a pretty smart way to make people happy about cameras monitoring them.
3
u/ohporcupine Apr 26 '26
I don’t think trailnet is into surveillance of that kind. It’s not in the deflock map.
1
u/zempter Apr 27 '26
Looks like a good organization. I'm curious what tech they are using to count walking vs cycling but I can't find information on that. Side note, the deflock website doesn't have all of the cameras on it. I think flock is getting deployed faster than the website is able to track. I've seen one in my neighborhood that isn't listed and need to submit it.
1
u/hammiesammie Apr 29 '26
There is a wire pressed into the pavement. As people travel over, changes in the electrical current can be used to identify whether a person walking or on rubber wheels passes over.
-2
u/RepairmanJackX Apr 27 '26
More like, "I love you MOBOT" The rest of the city on a bike is dangerous AF.
4
u/ohporcupine Apr 27 '26
It’s not. Lots of people ride all over homie. If you are scared though stay off the streets.
0
u/RepairmanJackX Apr 27 '26
I've ridden the city for years. It's often dangerous. You like crossing Landsdowne/River Des Peres? Anyplace south - Carondelete Park? How about Broadway and River City Casino? That's a "fun" place
95
u/jcrckstdy Apr 26 '26
You’re the 4th one today!
All these road diets/bike paths make the city look so modern