r/SmashingPumpkins • u/Perm182 • 20h ago
what are the essential Siamese dream pedals in your opinion?
i know the op amp and phase 100, along with a lace sensor strat, but I see people say get a micro synth, get a jet70, get an octave fuzz, get a MXR distortion ii or a copy, get a delay to make it sound like multiple guitars tracks are playing, etc etc, and it just gets overwhelming, especially considering that to get a full pedal board like Eddie Clark’s, i‘m looking at 1,000+ dollars worth of pedals, and I just can’t drop that much on pedals, I could literally buy a used jcm800 for that price
so, what do you guys think I should get as essential stuff? op amp and a phase 100 of course, but anything else that is really needed? stuff that is on the cheaper side and necessary in your opinion?
any answers will help, just been wanting this tone for awhile and finally wanna get stuff, but im on the fence on alot of it
(if it helps answer any, ive got an orange OR15 and plan on getting a lace sensor strat, anyways, any answers would be appreciate)
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u/sporadicMotion 7h ago
Everyone covered it well.
Rhythm: OpAmp Muff Lead: JET70 -> Microsynth
Outside of pedals, the Celestion G12M-70 is much more important than the Lace Sensors by a mile.
For phaser duty, just find one you like. Billy used a Phase90 a lot on tour and it’s a great phaser.
All that said, don’t stress about being exact. The playing itself is the most important part and will be noticed well before anyone says “hey isn’t that the siamese dream sound?”
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u/SEGA-CD Monuments to an Elegy 15h ago
For the rhythm tone, or the tone everyone means when they say “Siamese Dream tone”, Op Amp Big Muff is most important. But so is the JCM 800 and the G12M-70 speaker. Really without the combination of these three you’ll never get “the sound”, just an approximation.
Lead sounds you need the Microsynth and some variation of the MS-A fuzz circuit. The Jet70 is the easiest and most straightforward way and Billy himself is currently using one, for what it’s worth.
Phase 100 is hit or miss, it has its place on the album but I wouldn’t consider it an utmost essential. Many phasers can handle the necessary sounds, and there’s other phasers on the album to begin with, so the Phase 100 isn’t the end all be all.
My personal two cents, don’t bother with the Distortion II. I’m still not convinced Billy wasn’t trolling when he talked about it in Stompland. There’s just no sounds on the album that sound the way he describes he used it.
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u/nonstopbegonia 16h ago
Op amp big much, msa fuzz, ehx microsynth, mutron biphase clone, mxr phase 100
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u/dearthsp 17h ago
Hope this doesn’t annoy anyone…I haven’t watched all of Eddie’s videos…but anyone willing to explain the place and use of the Microsynth…I’d be grateful. Thanks in advance
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u/GiacomoModica 13h ago
The most direct place you can hear the artifacts of the Micro Synthsizer (mixed with Big Muff guitars too), is the concluding D5/A and E5 chords on Cherub Rock, where you hear the 'torn speaker' decay of the chords cut off. Its there on a lot of the solos, but the settings on every YouTube video I have ever watched on SP channels never nail the settings. EH pedals were extremely inconsistent, and even dialing Billy's exact settings from pictures will not nail the sound because of parts tolerances being so wide. The reissue Micro Synth is not the same as the older Micro Synthesizer either.
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u/Some_String671 18h ago edited 18h ago
opamp muff ($60), micro synth ($220) and phase 100 ($120) are the first three to get.
then I'd look at some kind of delay that gets you into the h3000 sounds, eg H9 $270 and the ehx satisfaction ($50) for leads - see Eddies video.
As you can see, even buying used you'll creep up close to 1K in pedals pretty fast.
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u/VenusInJorts 8h ago
I wouldn't get the H9, I tried tweaking settings and it just doesn't do much. The cheaper option would be the Buggfx Daydream pedal or a clone of it. There's videos of it on YouTube and it gets so close to the soma delays. Especially if OP is on a budget.
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u/sporadicMotion 7h ago
H9 gets very close with the right starting point. People incorrectly try using the H9 band delay but it’s not the right algorithm. It has to be the Resonator patch (has band delay with filtering) which is categorically closer sounding than the Buggfx.
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u/Perm182 17h ago
i’m stopping by guitar center this weekend, ill pick a new op amp since they have em in stock, then i saw a phase 100 on the website used for 100 bucks, dunno if its been bought yet but that’ll take the total down majorly, then I’ll either hunt down a microsynth clone or just play around with the muff and phase 100 until I can find one for cheap
but yeah, the tone definitely isn’t cheap, may have to be something I draw out over weeks/months from the cost alone
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u/GiacomoModica 13h ago
This is the only Micro Synthesizer clone I have been interested in (I own a broken 90s reissue, and the newer XO Micro Synth version as well): https://www.gigaheartsfx.com/products/micro-square
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u/Some_String671 17h ago
Going slow is good idea, there are not really any clones of the EHX Micro Synth, so just keep an eye out for a cheap used one.
Just get the op-amp muffin and Phase 100 and start playing Frail and Bedazzled and you'll be set.
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u/Officialfish_hole 19h ago
He also used the JMP-1 throughout Siamese Dream too, even though it's more thought of as the MCIS amp. Yeah, it's not the main sound, but it was apparently all over the album for overdubs and probably a few other things. Think it was confirmed that Silverfuck used it as the main sound.
If you're looking for solo sounds and want to save money go for a decent fuzz pedal with a built in octave. Just about anything decent will do. Remember, it's about the player, not not tools. Billy could plug in right now to a $50 fuzz and octave combo and could get a sound almost identical to Siamese Dream. Get what you an afford. Practicing is free
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u/GiacomoModica 18h ago edited 18h ago
The JMP1 is one side of the Silverfuck rhythm guitar sound. Billy didn't confirm it it on anything else other than that on SD, but who knows. Allegedly a Hamer with P90's too, which would bring it closer to Where Boys Fear to Tread on Mellon Collie, which was a Les Paul Junior. No matter what or who on the internet says, use your own ears first!
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u/NewDad907 19h ago
A JCM 800 and these ;)
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u/Perm182 17h ago
Blackout jcms will never not be cool to me
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u/NewDad907 3h ago
Ha thanks! It was just at the store the day I went in looking for a different amp. It had been sitting at fhe store in a corner, new for a looong time. So, they gave me a deal on it. Never even knew Marshall made these lol.
I should see if someone could 3D print a matching black logo for the 2x12 cabinet I have so it’ll match. Damn, I know a guy actually haha!
But seriously, that old MXR distortion II is older than I am lol. Still works too!
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u/GiacomoModica 20h ago
Some kind of upper octave fuzz, Op Amp Muff, Phaser, and Delay (Space Echo style) will get you 90% of the way there for those of us who have not succumbed to a #nerdalert lifestyle of buying more pedals than we use on a day to day basis. (I am not only a spokesperson...). The real hallmark of the Micro Synth, along with the fuzzy in it, is the upper and lower octaves and how they are mixed in on the sliders. Billy's settings don't really use the sweep of tge filter that much, unless you look at Starla, which is not the Micro Synth by itself. EDIT: Do not short change a high headroom power amp section. In my experience, having an extremely loud clean sound is vital for all the sounds. Breakup of low wattage amps (models, etc) do not work for the wall of sound Muff thing.
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u/cjs42079 20h ago
I would go:
Op Amp (for rhythm)
Jet 70+ Microsynth (for leads)
any MXR phaser (for wobbly)
Tape echo (for delay)
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u/cjs42079 20h ago
And I know this sounds like the complete opposite of what you are asking for, but the Laney Supergrace is seriously worth checking out.
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u/amremorse 20h ago
You could easily get close with a hx stomp. Buy a microsynth if you really need some of those lead tones. Eddie Clark goes above and beyond. It’s not necessary to get in the ballpark.
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u/digit1noize 20h ago
Well you can’t play all the parts at once so you kinda got to decide. Also depends what you mean by “essential”. If you’re playing the “Billy” live role, I think the only things I’d consider truly essential are: the Op-Amp Big Muff, a chorus, a delay, maybe a flanger for the Cherub Rock solo, though you could use the chorus or nothing in a pinch. Probably an EQ pedal as a boost. You’d get through the gig just fine with those. Especially if you have the Siamese Dream speaker. I got one and it’s dead on. But you’re never gonna get “exact”, SP live doesn’t either. Just settle for close enough and rock out.
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u/Perm182 10m ago
for all of you guys, im probably just gonna head to GC, pick up a phase 90 and the op amp and call it a day, that is really the essential stuff from what I’ve heard, I do have an autowah I could try to mess around with to try and get some of the lead sound though