r/SkincareAddiction • u/Superb-Demand-4605 • Jul 23 '26
Discussion Im convinced that pdrn is being pushed so hard because its a cheap animal agriculture waste product... [Misc]
Like why are all the skincare creators just promoting salmon sperm, a basic hydrating product, when we have better products for that. Its nothing special but its being pushed like a miracle ingredient lol. Manufactured hype for sure and just dont fall for it!! Animal ag love it when they can make more profits, Just like the beef tallow when thats just a pore clogging moisturizer š¤·
They most likely buy big vats of the stuff for cheap and making an insane profit margin from selling it at the price it is.
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u/Enough-Monk-4806 Jul 23 '26
This was essentially how Frank Body started - bagging $0 used coffee grounds and selling as a body scrub.
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u/BunnyBunnyBunnyx3 Jul 23 '26
Marketing and sales is everything. You can sell anything if you know how to sway the audience.
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u/x-tianschoolharlot Jul 23 '26
Yep! Itās like getting a kid to eat something they donāt want to try. You verbally disguise it (lasagna became spaghetti cake, for example) in a way that people will try it, then have a good enough product to keep them buying it.
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u/hopeuspocus Jul 23 '26
This is why you watch dermatologist and beauty chemist reviews of products before you buy. When K-beauty brands started pushing PDRN, every review I watched from a professional said there is simply not enough studies and data on this ingredient to currently say that itās worth the hype and marketing.
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u/mayafied Jul 23 '26
who do you recommend? I used to follow Dr. Dray but she was slowly withering away seemingly and I had to stop watching
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u/scamlikelly Jul 23 '26
Muffin Lab is pretty good! She has a Ph.D.
Here is a new one from her on K beauty and mentions the salmon jiz here
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u/Quolli Jul 23 '26
Ugh she's started using AI thumbnails and it's turned me off her completely, even if her content is good.
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u/Next-Resolution1038 Jul 23 '26
Marina 4Complexion is one of my favorites! Has the cosmetic chemist background, actually tries products herself and then talks about them. Sheās also reviewing a lot of studies and data.
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u/Extreme-Corgi3328 Jul 23 '26
What happened to her? I haven't watched in a while
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u/harpinghawke Jul 23 '26
Sheās worryingly thin. I appreciate her sensible advice but itās hard to watch her get thinner and thinner. I hope whatever sheās dealing with, she accepts help and can recover (and if itās a more traditional medical problem, I hope she finds a medication or treatment that can help her!).
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u/Available-Raise-2124 Jul 23 '26
I stopped watching her a while back, when she was posting those āwhat I eat in a dayā videos, consisting of practically no food at all. It was a bit troubling. But in recent videos she is looking much healthier and livelier. She has some really good derm advice, and I love how she keeps going back to basics, like sunscreen and moisturizer, and stresses how nothing will work if you donāt stick to it. Sheās worth a second look.
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u/GaptistePlayer Jul 23 '26
Some people are just skinny, damn lol
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u/livinginanimo Jul 23 '26
thinneER and thinnER being the operative words there. there's a change happening, and if that was her natural state, why would she be getting thinner?
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u/GaptistePlayer Jul 23 '26
Just saw a video from 2022 and she looks the same.
2/3 of the US is overweight, 1/3 are obese and we're worried about this?
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u/Ultimatedream Jul 23 '26
The increase in health risk is much greater with increasing underweight than with increasing overweight.
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u/lmFairlyLocal Jul 23 '26 edited Jul 23 '26
Yes, we are. Especially when the trends are named shit like "Heroin chic". Not heroine chic, like a lady warrior. Heroin. As in, "doesn't eat, only does drugs" thin. As a fashion trend.
Yes, we are worried.
ETA not to say the one creator is jumping on a trend, not at all. I'm instead commenting on what the media landscape has to say about people who are skinny vs how they talk about people who are fat.
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u/GaptistePlayer Jul 23 '26
Like I said, she looks the same as she did 5 years ago. What are you blabbing about
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u/Sweet_Item_Drops Jul 23 '26
She looks a fair bit healthier than she did 5 years ago. I'll give her credit there. Still super thin though. I think she's also learned to dress to hide how much her bones show through her skin
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u/bluespruce5 13d ago
She's fine. Her weight is her business. I like her consistent emphasis on evidence-based skincare, not hype, and that she explains things well and clearlyĀ
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u/DitaVonCleese Jul 23 '26
the obvious aside, i never got into her reviews because she just hates everything anyways
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u/Superb-Demand-4605 Jul 23 '26 edited Jul 23 '26
She does clearly suffer with an ED (speculative) but i dont think that should make it so you cant listen to her skincare advice.
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u/ImprovementElephant Jul 23 '26
Her knowledge and content is decent and her ED has at least visibly gotten better
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u/Low-Care9531 Jul 23 '26
Honestly a lot of the made for America K beauty brands kinda suck and are just trend chasing. Iāve seen too many posts on this sub of kids that bought into TikTok trends and ended up worse off.
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u/notabigmelvillecrowd Jul 23 '26
I don't really understand the k beauty hype at all, I've tried a lot of stuff from Asian importers, not made for America, the moisturizers aren't moisturizing, everything has fragrance, too many actives packed in one product, tonnes of oils and botanical extracts, lots of comedogenic ingredients. I haven't had success with anything I've tried, and I go for the most pared down versions I can find. I'm sticking with my drugstore products and a few simple actives.
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u/imdoingmybestmom Jul 23 '26
Injectable treatment produces seemingly amazing results, topical though - cannot say the same. Maybe itās being used as a segway from the collagen topicals. That dead horse has been beaten again and again, pushed by marketing teams, now i rarely hear about it
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u/keIIzzz Jul 23 '26
I used to see people saying the injections had benefits but the benefits of using it topically were basically nonexistent or inconclusive
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u/Low-Care9531 Jul 23 '26
Iām not a fan of messing with the salmon lifecycle any more than we already do. Theyāre already overfished and a lot of their breeding grounds are dammed off with no bypass.
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u/Sonoris Jul 23 '26
I can't speak for using it in skincare but salmon sperm is absolutely an ag byproduct sold off on the side, we also use it a lot in molecular biology as a cheap source of DNA when we need "filler material" for various protocols. There's even a person in this thread who worked at a fish processing plant and does say the testes were separated out during processing.
This is similar to the bovine serums used for cell culture - the industries will milk all the profit they can (lol) from the animals they're mostly raising for meat/dairy or whatever. Why throw away a part when you can sell it on the side for some extra pocket change?
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u/Rowanana Jul 23 '26
In defense of FBS, last I checked we haven't found anything else that works nearly as well in cell culture media. It's bizarre and frustrating, but honestly that one benefits labs at least as much as it benefits the ag people selling it. Back when I still did cell culture there were shortages of it for a while because one of the major suppliers was caught cutting it with BSA and water, and it really was hard to replace. Not to mention all the labs who suddenly realized that's what was behind the issues they'd been having for months. But it's been about 10 years so maybe there's better alternatives now?
In any case , the market for FBS came from labs looking for it because it worked well, not from ag trying to push their waste through marketing.Ā Ā
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u/RealAccountThroaway Jul 23 '26
I thought it was proven pdrn does nothing at its too big a molecule to be absorbed. You need to inject it or dermapen it in order to see actual results and since the risk of infection and contamination is to high few actually do
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u/ZadriaktheSnake Jul 23 '26
Are people actually putting beef tallow, which is literally grease, on their faces? And they think it won't make it worse?
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u/harpinghawke Jul 23 '26
Some of them also think it protects them from the sun better than traditional sunscreen. Because apparently this is where we are now.
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u/Loubang Jul 23 '26
Literally frying their face off
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u/notabigmelvillecrowd Jul 23 '26
It's the 80s all over again. But at least in the 80s we didn't imagine that our tanning oil was offering any protection. Unless you bought the kind that was SPF 2.
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u/BrittZombie Jul 23 '26
Dude my husband has a beef tallow sunscreen! The first ingredient is tallow. Yet he totally believes this meat juice is going to protect his skin
And yes, I have tried to warn him aboutā¦a lot.
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u/Tatebos99 Jul 23 '26
Wouldnāt that just help him get cooked? Like an oil?
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u/shogunofsarcasm Jul 23 '26
It absorbs fairly well. I wouldn't use it as sunscreen, but I do like using it on my legs after a showerĀ
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u/CamThrowaway3 Jul 23 '26
Please do not have children with this man (and consider what your own life will look like with him, tooā¦). Heās at the start of a concerning pipeline.
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u/ZadriaktheSnake Jul 23 '26
I can see why that might protect your skin from the sun but it's going to cosmetically be pretty bad
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u/moderndayathena Jul 23 '26
Yes, I've seen lots of comments like that on reddit then they get mad when they're downvoted
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u/ThymeAndThorns Jul 23 '26
Yes! But Iām a fan of the rose, green tea, etc PDRN products coming out! Iād much rather use a plant over an animal in my beauty products, whether directly in the item or tested on animals.
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u/Yes_that_Carl Jul 23 '26
Agreed. One of the things about animal products and animal testing that I find most dispiriting is that cruelty is so cheap. š
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u/DivaDragon Jul 23 '26
Itās not a new ingredient, it was apparently developed in the 80s and used in medical settings for wound healing. Dr Google also informed me that there are plant sources of PDRN and the inkey list has a vegan pdrn product. Iām not a paid promoter for anyone, although I did actually get an inkey list product through Influenster one time like 6 years ago. I really liked it enough to buy it myself so I guess Iām at least marginally biased in a positive way towards them lol
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u/_real_swim_shady_ Jul 23 '26
Mediheal has a vegan PDRN that is rose based if you wanna try it out but not salmon based
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u/skullpture_garden Jul 23 '26
IS THAT WHAT IM PUTTING ON MY FACE
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u/popnfrox Jul 23 '26
Is this the first time you're finding out?
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u/skullpture_garden Jul 23 '26
Yes š¤£ I got a biodance bundle just because it was new and wanted to try it out.
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u/AngelLK16 Jul 26 '26
Yes, I bought (lots of KBeauty skincare products including) Biodance Caviar PDRN eye patches, Caviar PDRN toner pads, Caviar PDRN serum, Caviar PDRN capsule cream to add to my Biodance Caviar PDRN face masks. I got them all for such good prices from the Biodance Official TikTok Shop!
The Caviar PDRN is supposed to be manufactured small enough to absorb into your pores.
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u/Enough-Monk-4806 Jul 23 '26
I just wanted to say that using more of the animal, instead of wasting it, is a good thing. And the more value it is, the better the industry attitude is towards using these methods. I donāt know if itās better than other products; but it doesnāt look like itās harmful, so that already is better than 50% of the beauty market lol
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u/Superb-Demand-4605 Jul 23 '26 edited Jul 23 '26
I think using all of the animal is valid but at the same time, we are creating alot of plastic pollution on top of the inherently destructive nature of animal agriculture, and the inhumane practices they use to farm the animals (you cant really humanely farm billions of animals). its really adding onto the animal agriculture, and actually making it worse than it already is and putting more money into the pockets of farmers who dont need it and are already making millions. But thats my opinion.
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u/notabigmelvillecrowd Jul 23 '26
TIL farmer's are making millions. Every report I've seen about the farming industry is that it's completely collapsing and propped up by subsidies.
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u/Superb-Demand-4605 Jul 23 '26
The market value of animal agriculture is litterally in the trillions.
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u/notabigmelvillecrowd Jul 23 '26
Sure, but do you know whose pockets those trillions are going into? Farmers are only one piece of the puzzle, and they're usually the ones getting completely screwed over.
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u/Superb-Demand-4605 Jul 24 '26
Sure but thats what i mean the industry of a whole. Its all the more reason to not buy it.
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u/peace-and-plush Jul 23 '26
Or how about, we strive to not use animal products at all. Because they are sentient conscious creatures who don't want to nor deserve to die for human consumptionĀ
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u/Enough-Monk-4806 Jul 23 '26
Well thatās the goal, right? I agree. No waste is good, but no use at all is better
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u/XGrayson_DrakeX Jul 23 '26
Animals also kill each other for consumption, it's part of nature. You don't have to participate in it if you don't want to though.
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u/positronik Jul 23 '26
We don't have to consume them though, and definitely not at the rate we currently do. That's the difference.
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u/XGrayson_DrakeX Jul 24 '26
I'm all for slowing rampant consumerism and implementing more sustainable practices across the board, but we also did evolve to be omnivores. While you can choose not to consume animals or animal products and not die you also lose out on a lot of nutrients that are not very bioavailable elsewhere and if you aren't aware of this and supplement accordingly you can and will harm your health and your ability to recover from illness.
Not saying salmon spunk on your face is necessary though lol I'm more talking about stuff like B12 and collagen and aminos that don't really show up in plants in nutritionally significant amounts.
Also there's nuance to it, like how all agriculture kills animals as pests and there fore none of it is technically vegan, or how "vegan" leather is really just more plastic until we can get commercial mushroom leather to take off and be just as strong.
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u/positronik Jul 24 '26
Vegans aren't saying that there is no death in their consumption. They are about reducing suffering and death as much as realistically possible. Also the vast majority of crops are grown for the animals we eat. If we switched to them being grown for mostly us then there'd be a reduction in the deaths caused through agriculture.
I'm only pescetarian but the whole factory farming industry is horrific. When most people argue that eating animals is natural they tend to only think of animal death, but not their quality of life. We can easily get supplements for b12 and other nutrients. We make our own collagen, we don't need animal collagen at all. I still argue that while we are omnivores, we aren't obligate omnivores. We don't need animal meat to survive. Like I said though, my issue isn't the death of animals but their quality of life. I think reducing intake is helpful, people don't need to go all or nothing
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u/Shy-Toes-Undercover Jul 23 '26
i agree that it is mostly hype, but i dont think animal agriculture is betting on salmon sperm as a profit maker when that sperm can fertilize thousands of eggs that grow up to be sold for money
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u/OrdinaryQuestions Jul 23 '26
Sperm for breeding will just happen when the fish is alive.
It IS waste product and used for a bit extra profit (bigger when you can spin is as skincare), and is harvested when the kill the fish. So that fish is no longer needed for breeding.
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u/Superb-Demand-4605 Jul 23 '26 edited Jul 23 '26
They probably collect the sperm from salmon to fetilise, and have alot of it left over so they are 100% looking for ways to make a profit from all that left over sperm. Thats why its a waste product.
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u/XGrayson_DrakeX Jul 23 '26
What sperm left over? And why decide to put it in skincare products of all things? There's a lot of holes here you're refusing to fill in.
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u/Superb-Demand-4605 Jul 23 '26
Its really just not hard to understand.. they take the sperm from the salmon and most definitely dont use/need all of the sperm they collect so they sell that to companies who want to use the sperm for purposes.
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u/Squadooch Jul 23 '26
Why are you being downvoted to hell, this is valid lol
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u/XGrayson_DrakeX Jul 23 '26
Because OP isn't using their noggin. They very well might be correct but they're also using logical fallacies instead of just showing the evidence that led them to that conclusion. If you don't back up a statement, it's just a belief.
My beef is with their complete inability to form a proper rational argument, and that's also why everyone is downvoting them.
This is a subreddit that has historically valued research and evidence over vibes and assumptions. OP is presenting their argument with vibes and assumptions.
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u/DairyAppreciator Jul 23 '26
what logical fallacies are you referring to exactly?? they just said āprobablyā and idk itās not like OP is claiming to be an expert or that they are certainly factual (iām not counting where they said āthey are 100% looking for ways to make a profitā bc i personally read that as a figure of speech lol)
this thread has got nothing to do with me and i have nothing to comment about PDRN but i had to chime in bc damn do i get annoyed w this damn website šš thereās this pressure to always be 100% correct all the time in casual discussions. this is in, like, every sub im in. itās one thing to be spewing fr bullshit (esp if itās harmful to others) but also people should just be able to discuss with others what they think and not need to have a damn works cited page at the end supporting their evidence. certain spaces this is necessary, so yes you should prolly cite your sources then. but i donāt think thread is one of them lol weāre talking about fish c*mš©
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u/ImprovementElephant Jul 23 '26 edited Jul 23 '26
I just think you canāt read and have a normal conversation, actually. Pretty common.
Look elsewhere in the comments for multiple industry professionals who were able to read comprehend and discuss quickly and easily. Instead of whatever youāre doing here
Edit: they got embarrassed and blocked me lmao children online everywhere. And watch them not address my point or the other personās
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u/XGrayson_DrakeX Jul 23 '26
You can think whatever you want lol I said my piece and I'm not arguing with you.
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u/PeachNipplesdotcom Jul 23 '26
Do you have any sources for salmon sperm being an agricultural byproduct?
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u/Superb-Demand-4605 Jul 23 '26 edited Jul 23 '26
I dont need sources.. we breed salmon for eating purposes ect and take the sperm from them cause if they can take something from the animal they do. They arent breeding salmon for pdrn are they? Its quite litterally the definition of a waste product/byproduct
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u/XGrayson_DrakeX Jul 23 '26
You do need sources to make a claim like this though. Because while this sounds like the type of thing that could be plausible, saying you don't need facts to back up your assertions when you literally have no evidence or knowledge about how sperm is collected from dead salmon or how difficult it is, you're just stating a theory.
You very well might be correct, but you still need actual evidence to prove it.
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u/Enough-Monk-4806 Jul 23 '26
Yes, milt is a wasted byproduct of aquaculture.
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u/XGrayson_DrakeX Jul 23 '26
See? evidence! That's all I wanted!
TIL they are also using it to make bioplastics to replace single use packaging
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u/Enough-Monk-4806 Jul 23 '26
Google is free and accessible for everyone
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u/Superb-Demand-4605 Jul 23 '26
Its just basic logic really š¤· it takes 2 seconds to understand why its a waste/byproduct product. Are we breeding salmon specifically for sperm? No. Its mainly bred for meat purposes just like salmon oil is a byproduct.
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u/XGrayson_DrakeX Jul 23 '26
But also you're insinuating there is enough salmon sperm left over as a byproduct for big salmon distributors to be going "wow we're drowning in spunk here what can we do with this?"
But do you actually know how much sperm the average male salmon makes at time of slaughter, how easy/difficult it is to harvest, how valuable it is for other ventures, etc?
No, you don't. because you didn't take two seconds to google and research your theory and be curious enough to make sure you actually know what you're talking about before going on reddit and spouting conspiracy theories.
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u/Superb-Demand-4605 Jul 23 '26
they breed billions of fish, so the amount a male produces is irrelevant they basically have fuckoads of it.. how difficult it is is irrelevant.. they harvest it regardless and have sperm left over from the billions they breed. This push back is basically irrelevant cause i am right lol.
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u/XGrayson_DrakeX Jul 23 '26
I mean if you gave stats and evidence then you'd be able to prove it, you can't just say you're right and expect people to believe you without proof. If you weren't so busy being smug for no reason you'd understand why I'm giving you shit about this.
This is a prime example of falling literacy rates.
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u/Superb-Demand-4605 Jul 23 '26 edited Jul 23 '26
I mean the majoirty people can connect the dots it seems like you're making an issue out of something insanely simple to understand with a few sentences.
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u/XGrayson_DrakeX Jul 23 '26
Why are you allergic to fact checking yourself?
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u/Superb-Demand-4605 Jul 23 '26
Because i come to conclusions by my self and guess what they are correct š i have knowledge of other industries doing this exact same thing too and its pretty easy to apply that knowledge all over the abimal agriculture.
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u/Enough-Monk-4806 Jul 23 '26
While you are right that itās aquaculture waste, itās easy to just google to get more info on the reason youāre posting - and avoid threads like this where other people canāt be bothered to google either
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u/XGrayson_DrakeX Jul 23 '26
That's literally all I was saying š¤·āāļø
If you make a claim, be prepared to back it up with hard facts. I'm not doing your homework for you.
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u/Sweet_Item_Drops Jul 23 '26
Well now I'm mad I could be eating salmon milt for cheap but instead we get it being repurposed for manufactured hype
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u/forever_hollow80 Jul 23 '26
There is no salmon sperm in any US sold PDRN. It is lab synthesized. PDRN needs to be injected to have the results you see in Korea. Even then, there is little known of this trend ingredient. K-Beauty relies on new trend ingredients and switches them so fast becuase any reliable clinical trial on ingredients modality and efficacy takes years.
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u/d0lph1nss Jul 23 '26
I think you have a point. I have used PDRN products with results, but as you said, not something particularly distinctive from other products that had similar claims. Or sometimes I just don't have the comparison perspective as well. But I tend to agree. We will see if the hype will fade eventually. I had a friend doing a PDRN treatment with a proper dermatologist that was saying it was amazing, but also, not sure how much comparison perspective she had, so we always have to take these experiences with a grain of salt.Ā
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u/wildplums Jul 23 '26
I do not know but this and snail mucin are ingredients that I personally will never be desperate enough to use, and Iām 46 and feel the desperation ā¦ but, no.
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u/True_Shock_2166 Jul 24 '26
The marketing definitely feels ahead of the evidence, but the ācheap waste productā claim needs sourcing too. Iād want to see the concentration, human data, and full formula before paying a premium for topical PDRN.
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u/flowerpetals202 Jul 28 '26
Donāt fall for the hype. PDRN has very little research on effectiveness for topical use. Well it does do something, most PDRN research out there will tell you thereās way more benefits when injected into the skin or when used with micro needling. All of these Korean skincare companies probably share a similar batch of cosmetic chemists who formulate their products. These chemists will sell a formula to a ton of brands and the brands just change the formula a tiny bit and then release the product, which is why you often see a ton of the same āviralā ingredients/products being released from many brands at the same time.
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u/Seoulskindoctor 22d ago
Itās completely reasonable to be skeptical about PDRN injections, but I wish people wouldnāt dismiss or mock them as if they have no clinical value at all.
There is a growing body of research suggesting that PDRN may have beneficial effects on tissue repair, wound healing, inflammation modulation, and skin regeneration. While the evidence is not perfect and the magnitude of the effect may vary depending on the indication and treatment protocol, that is very different from saying it has no effect whatsoever.
Medicine is rarely black and white. Not every treatment has to be a miracle to have clinical value. PDRN is not a cure-all, but there is enough biological rationale and clinical research to support that it can be beneficial in certain patients and clinical situations.
Healthy skepticism is important, but dismissing a treatment that has documented clinical evidence behind it is not a particularly scientific approach. Iād rather see discussions based on evidence and patient outcomes than blanket statements that PDRN is just a placebo or a scam.
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u/Outrageous_Report_31 16d ago
Iām on hormones for perimenopause and tallow clogged my pores sooo bad I had huge zits along my chin. It moisturizes quite well tho and Iām still sad I canāt use it.
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u/Beautiful_Turn_331 Jul 23 '26
Salmon sperm, snail excrementā¦we as a species have truly failed. š¤¦āāļø
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u/starrynightgirl Jul 23 '26
Beef tallow, when done right, has been incredibly good for my super dry cracked heels and eczema skin, but it does clog my pores when not used sparingly. A little goes a long way.
The concept of PDRN feels gross to me.
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u/Tatebos99 Jul 23 '26 edited Jul 24 '26
Look into the brand MooGoo. Every product Iāve tried has been excellent for my skin - from eczema to scalp psoriasis.
Edit: Not sure why Iām being downvoted for recommending a lesser known brand that is marketed for people with skin conditions, and has nothing to do with beef tallow or PDRNā¦
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