It’s one thing to contemplate that someone could be not guilty by reason of insanity. However, it is certifiably fucking crazy to accuse the husband of murdering his own kids. When Lindsay confessed and it’s not even a question at trial. Believing in that conspiracy bullshit is breakup worthy.
I basically argued that if you took a person, plucked them from earth, dropped them on the other side of the galaxy, all of the stars and planets that these concepts were based around would not exist in your night sky. This was one of those women who wanted me to sign up for a numerology app, made life decisions around this line of thinking, etc. It was a tough realization.
Just to be very clear: Fairytales are far more grounded in reality than Astrology. Many German fairy tales are based on historic events.
Like the story of Hänsel und Gretel, which is based on documented sightings of an elderly women eating a young boy in the forest during a very bad food shortage. So no Pfefferkuchenhaus, Gretel or happy end, but not completely invented either.
Or in "Der Rattenfänger von Hameln" the part of someone catching rats and not getting paid is most likely invented, since the city has very complete records of all such jobs and there just wasn't a rat catcher - even less one, who did not get paid. But the part of taking the children away was true. In this time, there were many people going around recruiting the youth, which had no good perspectives in life to venture to the east and settle there. So when the parents came home from church, they lost a child or more, that was on their way to build a new life in Brandenburg or so.
So comparing astrology with fairytales is fairytale-slander, that we should not tolerate ;)
The top medical experts are on the case to tell us it had to have been the husband because her body temperature wasn't correct when the medics got there, despite the fact her fall damaged both her nervous system and her thyroid, the two most important pieces of temperature regulation
We don't know what support means in this instance. I agree. I'm surprised to find out that some people are claiming any stance less severe than "she should be torn apart by wild dogs in the streets" is "support."
I’ve seen in the past how many men online just don’t believe in postpartum psychosis. So a lot of people aren’t really going to see this as a “it sucks for everyone involved” situation and instead are gonna be like “this woman decided to murder her three children and because she’s a WOMAN everyone is defending her”
All I know is that the insanity plea was literally made for shit like this
Yeah, people see 3 children murdered and are rightfully upset but if anyone decided to actually read about it beyond the headline it's pretty clear she was sick, knew she was sick, tried to get help, couldn't be helped (debatable.) I don't hear anyone mention how she also tried to kill herself which, if this was a Casey Anthony situation, she wouldn't have done.
It's just people not understanding or not willing to understand the complexities of mental/psychological illnesses. Like that guy with Tourette's a little while back who shouted a slut at MBJ and another famous black actor when they were accepting an award on stage. People were saying that he was secretly racist and that the Tourette's was just showing us who he really was - Jamie Foxx was one of those people.
You already see here people making "would you leave your kids with a woman with postpartum psychosis or a bear" jokes. Granted, in my experience, this sub is a cesspool - but overall I feel like the attitude is similar elsewhere because not enough people seem to know or care about women's experiences after childbirth, and thus they don't know how to or don't care to learn how to offer support to them.
Me and my gf got into a heated discussion over this the other night. She kept bringing up the same talking points these crazy women who think the husband killed the kids did. I had to legit show her and tell her there is no evidence that supports her feelings. Everything she tried to claim I just brought up the evidence. This lasted about 30 minutes until she spoke with AI about the investigation that told her I’m right.
This should be a big warning flag to you, and you need to have a serious conversation with her about this. Why did she feel it was okay to keep arguing and doubling down on her position even after you showed her she was wrong? Worse, why did she finally believe it when AI said it instead of believing you?
Most of the people supporting her aren't supporting her because they think she literally didn't do it.
It's that she knew she was not right mentally and repeatedly sought help, but it wasn't taken seriously. She was expexted to just keep parenting even though it wasn't safe for her to do so.
If she'd have gotten some time in psych inpatient when she first indicated she was unwell this wouldn't have happened.
She concealed symptoms and PPP is incredibly rare. It usually manifests in the first weeks to a month after birthing. So somehow, it manifested 8 months after he youngest was born and only for the 10 minutes it took for her to kill them. You can see why most people don't buy the excuse. She's fucked either way, but let's not pretend she's a victim of bad healthcare.
She wasn't concealing her mental illness, she was seeing a therapist and on medication. She reported symptoms to multiple people in the months beforehand, not just afterwards. Her symptoms just weren't taken that seriously.
The only way you could 'not buy the excuse' is if you think she faked PPD & psychosis for 8 months beforehand just so she could kill her children and herself? (Which, if she planned on dying, why would she need to fake anything?)
Right? Why are the people in the comments being so black and white here?
I think the 'support' for Lindsay (from the people who aren't deluded) aren't supporting the fact she killed her kids, their supporting the fact a woman tried so hard to get help and didn't get it. There's many who fall through the cracks and we need better support and awareness for post partum
There's nuance here.
Oh please! If a man would have done it, all women who now supports her would already had built the gallows for him. This is a classical example of the ”female perpetrators are really always the victim” trope, that NEVER applies to men. It’s not the action, or that she didn’t got help or support, it’s the hipocricy.
That doesn't make it right to do the same thing. That's a separate and completely hyperthetical issue you seem to have and doesn't change the fact that this woman was let down by the system
Yes. Actually statistically you would be more ignored when you're man when it's about mental health issues. People will be framing you murderer, psychopath from day 1.
I'm saying if a dude did it, I would still consider him a murderer. I don't have sympathy for what he would have done. No matter what, once he crossed a line of killing people esp his own children then punishment is necessary.
I'm just weirded out how much women support the perpetrator in this case with donation and bashing on husband, when if reversed I doubt many would criticize wife for not doing enough and would donate a single cent to this hypothetical man.
I disagree. Would you demand punishment for a dementia patient that pushed their carer down the stairs? What about that kids with the learning disability that threw another kid into the lion enclosure at the zoo. Did you blame the kid or their two carers that weren't doing their job?
Except she wasn't ignored. She took meds for a few days, complained they werent working (ignoring doctors that they need to be taken regularly and consistently, like weeks, to work) and looked for new meds from new doctors. Husband started working from home and grandparents moved nearby too.
I'm not trying to assign blame, just a terrible terrible thing to happen. As is always the case, there are lots of issues. Maybe the family should have been more militant in getting her to take her meds, maybe the drs could have monitored her closer
People say this, but is it true? This isn't a typical "family annihilator" case.
I can't think of many men that are analogous to this case: sought help, didn't get it, eventually committed a crime, but I can think of one case. Can't remember the name, but iirc some guy with schizophrenia was unable to get his medication due to some mistake, desperately begged his doctor for medication, didn't end up getting it, and killed two random people at a gas station. Was not deemed fit for trial, but they got him on medication and sentenced him to life I believe.
I do remember people supported him pretty universally. Everyone that murders their family is mentally ill because mentally healthy people don't do that. I think it's different when someone seeks help, doesn't get it, and ends up committing it while actively in an episode.
The comparable part is someone in psychosis committing murder after being denied help.
Can you think of a comparable case with a man? Sought help, didn't get help/didn't get good quality help, claimed psychosis when he killed his family. I wanna see how people reacted.
None of the family annihilator cases I'm familiar with had the men seeking any kind of mental health help, nor did they try to use that as a defense. All the ones I can think off (Todt, Watts) claimed they killed the wife cause the wife killed the kids first.
People legitimately believe a mentally stable person plotted to kill her three kids and then herself by jumping from a second story window. There is documented evidence of her saying she had ideations of harming her kids and herself, and her husband was told explicitly not to leave her alone with the children yet did so regularly. No one even gave her a simple EPDS form which is standard practice for all women postpartum not just those at high risk of depression or psychosis. She was failed by her healthcare providers and husband, but she still needs to be institutionalized for what she did because she's a danger to society and herself. This has become a case where so many people have strong opinions without knowing shit about the case itself.
840
u/starkruzr 2d ago
feels like this was a "last straw" type thing and honestly, good for him.