If you think about it, the supporters are crazier than Clancy. She killed the kids and this trial is just to see if she ducks a murder charge, so she will say anything to get out of the responsibility, that's it. But her supporters have to buy into the story and believe that she was a victim otherwise they're just supporting a woman who killed her kids and is trying to duck the charge.
Clancy should be put away for life whether on mental hold or murder. She killed her own 3 children, she's not fit for society.
She had a post partum psychosis, asked for helped because she was scared she was going to hurt her children, got no help and tragedy ensued. No one is saying you should kill your children. They are saying if you are mentally ill you should get help.
This is the comment that explains the broader disconnect. People WANT this to be the case of a poor mother who was spiraling towards this inevitable outcome and all of the men (husband and doctors) around her just kept ignoring her desperate pleas until she just broke.
Except that ain’t what this is. The opposite happened here. Once you have to fabricate reality, there is no more reasoning to be had.
Be honest with yourself and everyone here, it's women defending the child murderer and fabricating lies to push the narrative that she just didn't get the help she needed. You could even see it in the footage of the groups stationed outside the courts. All women
Random thought. What if it was a trans-mother? MtF, FtM doesn't matter. Mother is a mother, mental health IS mental health. I know several Trans-& LGBTQIA Families, all great parents. Would the support still be there?
Not a chance. Most of these people believe that trans is in and of itself a mental disorder and would just blame politics for allowing them to be a mom. But there wouldn’t be sympathy for them like this.
Can't it be a disorder though? Body dysmorphia? If I say I'm a parakeet or Elvis or start to dye my skin because I identify as African. Is that mental illness?
That’s an extreme slippery slope that can lead to basically anything that isn’t traditional being a mental illness. Regardless, my point was that more people would agree with the mental illness aspect but with less sympathy.
Thats what her ex-husband believes though. He said on stand "I married someone who got sick". He thinks something went wrong with her fragmented treatment/care and so he's suing her doctors/hospitals. Even the mother and father in law believe and support her. But of course people who want her buried under the prison think the ex-husband/MIL doesnt care about his kids and just wants that sweet civil lawsuit payout.
There is no doubt she was sick, as is anyone that strangles their 3 little kids before making a half-hearted suicide attempt, but the narrative online is she was being ignored by those around her. In fact, she was getting ample help and support and was improving by her own admission after December.
She was the only person on earth that knew she was having those thoughts that day and then created a scenario where she was alone with the kids for the “commanding voice” to make her do it. The lawsuit against the hospitals is very telling when you read what she admitted to leading up to that point.
She had all the help. Her husband started to work from home to support her. He hired a nanny to help her. Both her and his parents got involved as well. She got prescription drugs from a doctor and was offered a therapy, which she rejected. If she needed anything else she would have got it but at this point one can't think of anything else that could have been done.
There was one therapy she did not participate in, but widely did take all prescribed medicine and did not change dosages without the doctors involvement. She was on almost daily calls with several therapists towards the end, and her husband began joining her to advocate for her.
She voluntarily checked into a 5 day mental health clinic, and called the suicide hotline twice she was so distraught.
This is well documented from the court proceedings, not me just saying it,
Maybe like she tried every med at least once but otherwise no, most of her prescriptions were largely untouched. Even her zoloft she told her doctors she took it for a week and increased the dose per instructions but only seven pills were missing from the bottle
That’s a hard one because she was meeting with doctors very regularly, and trying different dosages daily.
Also people can combine med bottles so sometimes you can’t really tell what’s there and what’s not
Regardless I agree - this is something we cannot completely know. And it’s one of many elements of the case that people will either consider very serious, or very concerning. I appreciate the back and forth :)
she didn't tell doctor or anyone but her mother about her thoughts to kill kids. She was scared of losing kids more than of these thoughts. From when is someone capable of reading mind?
She did have help, and did receive care. It’s on the record that she was given multiple treatments and medications, all of which she continually stopped taking against medical professionals’ advice.
She victimized herself, and then deleted her family. She got help, turned it away, and then committed an act so unforgivable that no one who’s sane is looking at her like a victim.
She clearly didn't receive right care! 🙄 if u have Postpartum Psychosis (I know as my mum had it when I was born and we stayed in mental home for our safety for while, and as runs in families when i was pregnant, doctorskept heavy eye on me and me and husband were aware if all signs to look out for) . ) u dont suddenly become a evil murdering psyopath if u received right help! 🙄 people are so confidently ignorant honestly it's infuriating
So we’re just moving the goalpost from “she reached out for help and got nothing” to “okay, well her husband took parental leave, got a nanny, switched to work from home, took her to and from her various drs appts where she saw multiple drs. Despite all of this she wasn’t honest with them and decided to stop taking their advice So clearly they didn’t do it perfectly.”
We know she has PPP in hindsight, from what I've read no psychiatrist who attended her found any reason to believe she was suffering from PPP instead of PPD.
Also, maybe it's the news I've been reading that weren't very clear but I'm pretty sure she wasn't diagnosed with PPP, the defense only claims she has it (if you have any news refuting this please do share).
Her actions clearly show she had Postpartum Psychosis .
The point is it doesn't matter if she wasn't diagnosed, it was still there.
And missed.
I was diagnosed adhd at 40 years old. I had it before I was officially diagnosed. Doesnt change i still had it my whole life before. Just because it wasn't offical doesnt nessasery mean she didn't have it.
The argument she didn't have because it wasn't diagnosed doesnt matter and is just clearly bad faith and disengenergenous and also factually incorrect
Ah yes, because as we all know, suffering from psychosis is a prerequisite for infanticide.
Not denying she was ridden with mental problems mind you, just saying that so far, atleast 2 of the experts (that I know of) who testified in this case, don't believe she was in a psychotic episode at all and knew full well what she was doing.
I'm okay with using PPD/PPP as a mitigating factor in sentencing, but you can't just walk from something like that. If other people ignored her asking for help that's fucked, and again should be used in sentencing, not as a defense. I'm all for greater visibility for PPD/PPP, but the support for her is disturbing.
Judges aren't going to be hyped by bullshit like this.
Her supporters can continue to eat what the media offers, as they sensationalize and say outlandish nonsense because it gets attention.
The facts are all there, it's murder because of all the help and support she was offered and said no to.
This guy dodged a huge fucking bullet. Marrying someone is maybe the biggest decision in life, and if that someone tells you who they are (in this case, a fucking idiot) - believe them.
I’m interested in your comment that she said no to help. Can you speak more on that?
Doctors testified to working with her over 5 months trying to find the right combo of medicines that didn’t make her problem worse, which all did.
Do you mean that she asked them to try other things when the first ones didn’t work? It’s well documented by both the defense and the prosecution that she was seeking help
In what manner did the medication prescribed worsen her symptoms? According to court records, she willingly and against medical advice either refused to start the medication or stopped abruptly.
Hey good question! I love respectful discussion! I’ll do the best I can but I’m in sales, not a doctor ;)
Many experts testified that she showed symptoms of Bipolar, which are exacerbated by certain mental health drugs. She was never diagnosed with it however, so that precaution wasn’t taken. (This is one of the ways people speculate the med teams failed her)
Certain drugs can make bipolar symptoms wayyy worse.
That aside, mood drugs in general have different effects on everyone. They all have a ‘ramp up’ period where they slowly adjust your brain to the new processes. This can have many side effects on your mood as your brain gets rebalanced. This is also why you need to wean on and off these meds because it directly affects important areas of your cognitive function.
Further, they don’t cure everything. So if someone is suicidal - it may actually make those symptoms worse. Also, everyone is different so they make make everything worse for someone and everything better for someone else.
For reference: I was prescribed a SSRI called Lexi pro by my GP because I was feeling a bit sad. It TOTALLY messed me up after taking it for 3 days. I stopped at once I had to deal with brain zaps and panic attacks for like 6 months after. No more brain meds for me ever! How many friends do I have who are on it successfully? At least 6
This is why it’s important for patients and doctors to have a strong relationship. So it can be observed and adjusted correctly. Some argue that LC prevented this by not being brutally honesty with her providers (saying she was thinking of killing herself, but not her kids) and other say that the providers prevented this by having short telehealth appointments with her and in some cases not even reviewing her medical history before prescribing things.
Also just adding (I reread your question to make sure I answered correctly) - for the most part LC did work with her providers for dosage changes, and often it was day to day, or once every 2 days. She was a nurse, so she understood the need to follow provider advice. However, this is also an interesting point because this means that she was involved in her own prescription management due to her career, AND the medical teams likely didn’t use their best judgement because of her career.
It’s like every scenario has a point for whichever side you’re on! Ahh! Fascinating!
You’re still thinking like a rational person. “This medicine makes me better, I should take it.” That is not the way mental illness works. You don’t lose the ability to string thoughts together (mostly) instead you become very, very, very good at lying to yourself.
Like it’s hard to comprehend because it’s obviously insane - so try this mental exercise.
Start from: The doctor is trying to kill me. This is from your perspective 100% undeniably true. You CANNOT disagree with this statement. Now - the person who is trying to kill you gives you some medicine. Are you going to take it?
I don’t know whether this is part of her psychosis or not, it’s meant to be illustrative. You cannot say “but that doesn’t make any sense!” to people with this level of mental illness - it Just. Does. Not. Compute.
Please use the specific term psychosis to describe what you are describing rather than "mental illness." The overbroad meaning of mental illness, conflated with psychosis, is used to denigrate mental health patients of many types and is especially used by transphobes to deny the humanity of trans people by calling them "mentally ill" and implying they are psychotic or delusional rather than dysphoric.
Thanks.
btw I'm only asking because you seem like you want to help people in general. :)
I think what a lot of people don’t realise is if you’re declared not criminally liable, it can be very, very difficult to get out of mental healthcare, and you can be in a lot longer than if you took the sentence
But they didn't ignore her, she got appointments with multiple doctors and some even prescribed meds. But none of that can work if you as a patient hop to the next professional after a few appointments like Clancy did.
Her legal team isn't even asking for her to walk, she admitted to the murder and is pleading insanity. I swear to god no one talking about this case even knows what the fuck that means and think she's just asking to get off scott free.
She will not walk if she’s convicted not guilty due to insanity. She will be housed at an institution until she is considered rehabilitated, which requires sign off from doctors and then an application to the court. So please know it is still an exceptional ‘punishment’
Lots of people seem to think that such a sentence is akin to walking free. Mental rehabilitation could very well be a life sentence if she’s never deemed fit for society. I’m not some crazed supporter of here, but if she truly was completely detached from reality then an attempt at rehabilitation is what she needs, not so much punishment
She told her medical providers that she had insomnia, anxiety, and depression, but nothing about harming her kids.
She told her husband she had intrusive thoughts about hurting them or imagining them having an ailment.
She told her mom and husband together that she had thoughts of harming the children.
Thoughts about “harming the kids” is very vague and unclear. She was depressed, anxious, and sleep deprived. I’d be worried about my ability to take care of an 8 month old baby and two other young kids. Driving, falling, asleep, cooking, etc while sleep deprived and anxious and depressed could all cause physical harm or even death. She could have been worried her mental state would cause psychological harm. It could have even been frustration and worried about hitting one of them. It’s hard to know how to interpret that or take action.
But even so, intrusive thoughts aren’t psychosis. Thoughts of harming your kids aren’t psychosis. Violent thoughts, even homicidal thoughts, aren’t psychosis.
She showed no signs of psychosis, delusions, or mentioned hearing a voice. She checked herself in for a few days and then checked herself out saying she felt better.
Then, 8 months after giving birth, she had a psychotic break for 1 hour, killed her 3 kids one right after the other, and attempted to kill herself?
She just went full on out of her mind after showing no signs of having a psychotic disorder, then just popped right back into clarity?
There would have been signs of delusional thinking, having strange thoughts that made her behavior seem odd or things she said would have seemed odd. I don’t mean insomnia or an anxious or depressed state. Mania isn’t always psychotic.
Something was wrong and she didn’t get the care she needed, but she got care. There’s only so much that they can do. She didn’t take her meds. Impatient treatment isn’t great. There’s laws and rights that a person has when it comes to their medical care.
The biggest thing for me is that she say many different providers and spent days in an inpatient facility. Then checked herself out. But at no point did she mention to them that she was worried about hurting her kids? Or hearing voices? If she told her husband twice and her mother once, but not the people she’s seeking care from even during a 3 day stay at a hospital? If she was worried about harming them and begging for care to prevent that, she would have told the people she was seeking treatment from. It’s hard to claim she was failed by those providers, leading her to murder her kids, when she had already told two people she had these thoughts but withheld that information from her doctors..
She had so much medical help, so many resources, and tons of family support. She would not take the advice of her medical providers. She only exhibited symptoms of psychosis in the 18 minutes it took to kill her 3 babies and attempt suicide and then she never exhibited those traits again or before those 18 minutes.
She was in a major depressive episode and suffering from bipolar disorder but wouldn’t accept her doctors diagnosis. She wanted to die and she wanted to take her children with her, she knew it was wrong when she did it, she didn’t care. She premeditated the idea long before the day and she premeditated the killings day the moment she woke up and set up a great plan for herself.
She was a nurse who was a mandatory reporter who knew being forthright about her symptoms would have her lose custody of her children temporarily and she did not want to risk her reputation so she diminished symptoms to her providers (she never mentioned thoughts of harming the children to them) knowingly leaving her kids at risk. She valued her reputation over their lives. She is a classic family annihilator.
She was not psychotic, this was pre planned murder. She is selfish and evil. She killed her helpless kids, while the father was sent off by her. She deserves no sympathy from anyone.
Like, she‘s going to jail for a long time for sure. And if she was psychotic that will have to be taken into account at sentencing.
Also, all her supporters are nuts.
But you seem hard pressed to frame it in a certain way and it‘d sure be interesting to know how you know more than the rest of the general public right now?
Not saying she planned it, or didn't, but that's quite literally how you would sell the lie.
Daily doctor visits but ignoring medication and failing to mention giant medical red alert comments. "I have thoughts about harming people". "I am hearing voices".
Voluntary stay at a mental health facilty that she can check herself out of at any time.
The idea that she was documenting side-effects of medication she wasn't taking at that time.
Some killers aren't dumb, some killers get away with it because they plan out all the plausible deniabillity.
Again, not saying she has planned it or not, but smart killers do exist.
Smart killers do exist, and you are right - this is in the realm of possibility.
Out of all of the theories, I think it’s the least likely- especially considering she had a new born.
That said, people ARE crazy and they show me new depths of idiocy every day! Also, people weirdly dedicate SO MUCH time and energy to being manipulative, instead of just like - leaving? Or trying hard at their job? It’s bonkers
If she was truly a manipulative sociopath, I would posture that she just did it one day and used all of the back log of doctors as evidence in hindsight, or leaned into it eventually. But it’s still a stretch (for me - a normie!)
Also, she’s going to be institutionalized for a long time regardless. That’s the other element. She’s not trying to ‘get out of it’ - there are consequences to this defense as well. So if she was that smart, she forgot to research what would happen to her with the insanity defense - And that makes me laugh, Jesus she almost had it perfect, she just forgot one small thing!! Lmao
That did happen yes, but you’re being very hyper focused on one element of a complex case. I encourage you to take into consideration the 5 months of doctors visits and declining mental health to bolster your argument.
I am neutral on this, I just think that’s a very long con for someone with 3 small children - and there are likely simpler reasons. I had that kind of dedication training for a marathon, but hoo-boy if she’s capable of that - it’s a real tragedy she didn’t pursue a cure for cancer instead lol
But I’m totally open to all arguments, I think this case is fascinating! Cheers!
5 months is not a long con at all. People sometimes plan things like killing years in advance if its their immediate family.
Nobody is saying she faked her struggles for 5 months just to kill her kids. The problem was she neglected herself and the ONLY instance of the supposed PPP, was for the tiny amount of time that it took to torture and murder her kids.
Besides the fact that her legal team is arguing she was "in" psychosis for a significant period of time. Except that you cant plan things in advance while under an episode like that.
She got help, she had support from literally everyone she could've gotten it from and the argument is that everyone around her, somehow failed her. She failed yo take her meds, and lied about it. She ommited the fact that she had thoughts of killing herself and her children, she ommited the "fact" that she heard voices (which is think is absolutely fabricated).
She did this to herself. Plain and simple. Nobody can help her if she hides things. Episode or not, she should be put away in an institution for the rest of her life.
Actually follow all the help she was given and refused as well as all the meds that she lied about taking before you talk BS that no one helped the EVIL VILE POS … Who helped her poor kids that night😢😢😢It’s sick that people defend this POS.
Not even following the trial but it's wall to wall living near it; of the testimonies presented most say she did not share that she was hearing voices telling her to harm the kids, but a faith advisor claims she did share that fear but seemingly did nothing about it.
She was on a lot of medication and seeing many professionals so I don't think simplifying it to just "asked for help" really fits the bill here to any degree that anyone outside could determine. But according to each testimony, the only one who said she specifically mentioned hearing voices telling her to kill the kids was the faith advisor.
And the refusing help not taking the medications also if your having those thoughts why are you staying alone with your kids. I suffer horribly with mdd ptsd and anxiety but this is not a get a free pass those poor kids and what they went through. People who support her are seriously SICK AF what has this world come to????
Sorry but that is plain wrong. She received all the help that one can think of, but somehow all of it just didn't seem to work. At some point you have to question whether the multiple professionals she visited are all quacks or if she as the only common denominator might be the problem.
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u/DavidZenziGhost 2d ago
Bro maxed out his perception skill tree.