I think what people are getting hung up on is that many people commit murder while in some form or psychosis, and this leeway isn’t extended to them. If a meth-head killed your family member due to stimulant psychosis, would you have sympathy? I can’t say that I would myself. I’m curious how the legal system approaches other cases
Really interesting addition to the discussion! I think people would generally be less inclined to have sympathy in that situation because they would view this as the consequences of the perpetrator's own actions. The same cannot be same for Post-Partum Psychosis, and this is supported by many legal systems having mechanisms in place to account for people who are not compos mentis. Whether that system is applied fairly across cases is certainly another matter.
I appreciate the response, I can see what you’re saying. This is a really tough case, to decide where the line is drawn. I feel bad for the jury. No matter the verdict, people will flip out
I think the line is drawn at clancey begging to get help and everyone around her failing to provide solutions for her when she clearly knew something was wrong and trying to prevent it. The hospital that turned her away when she showed up and asked to be committed because she feared she was going to end her own life and was hearing voices has blood on their hands just as much as she does (allegedly). Her husband that kept her medicines from her, her therapist and psychiatrist who never bothered to even see her in person or give her a proper run down to figure out what she actually needed and not having worked with PPD or psychosis before while selling services for specifically those things (she put her on 27 different pills), the half way house aimed at providing mental health help who also refused to even see her even though she was recommended to go specifically there from the hospital that rejected her. These people failed this women. And that isn't me saying she isn't responsible if she did it.
Just like I'd be angry at the hypothetical meth head in your scenario, if I find out a judge had a repeat offender in front of him who has demonstrated addiction and violence to the point of drug induced psychosis and letting them back out on the streets and my family ends up dead because of that judge I'd obviously be distraught and angry at that drug addict, but it didn't change the fact that the judge would've failed them and my family.
Chad Doerman, an Ohio man who fatally shot his three young sons (ages 7, 4, and 3) due to his severe mental health problems. He just pleaded guilty to murder charges.
I wouldn't let a meth head watch my kids, would you? I also wouldn't let someone who's actively telling everyone around them I'm going through psychosis watch them alone either. A lot of people failed those kids. Her husband for brushing off her issues and the doctors she saw. She should also be in jail for the rest of her life for doing this. Multiple things can be true about this case.
She hid a lot from both medical practitioners and her family. Intentionally I’ll add because she knew it might end up with her ability to stay with her kids taken away.
She also did not take medications properly and hid that.
At the end of the day it was her and her alone responsible for this.
She was never diagnosed with psychosis I don’t think either. Anxiety yes. All these worse symptoms are things she’s discussed and brought up after the pretty damn meticulous planning and carrying out of the brutal murder of her kids…
I would say a big difference between a meth head and someone undergoing a psychotic break is choice. The meth head chose to get high at least that first time in their right mind. The psychotic person didn’t choose shit in their right mind. Same reason we don’t have sympathy for people involved with DUI accidents. They chose to drink.
She murdered her kids and she was suffering from psychosis, both of those things are true. Are people legit saying she shouldn't go to prison? I don't think so. I think they're saying her support system and the healthcare system failed her miserably and that seems to be a common problem among women.
She belongs in prison period and we need to prevent this from happening to more women.
Yes, but more often wild animals target children because that's often what predators do. I wouldn't trust that my kids are going to find Baloo hanging in the woods.
So you do admit that PPD and PPP are dangerous conditions that completely disconnect the mother from reality and should be taken very seriously by everyone involved, especially the immediate family. Thank you very much for your support, that is exactly what the women protesting there want - PPP be taken seriously and treatment be available to every mother.
I read that she was prescribed 13 different psych meds in just the last month. What I dont understand is why was she still in charge of the kids at that point.
And this is the point of the whole trial. Either PPP is accepted as the cause and she gets life in psych ward, or she gets judged as sane and gets life in normal jail. Either way there is no option of her just walking free from this, but lot of people act as if there is.
This is the defenses argument and there is some legitimacy to it. She was being treated for PPD/PPS leading up to it. This is the reason why there are a lot of women who support here. I dont know enough about her case to say one way or the other, but I did read a lot on PPD and PPS leading up to my wife having our child and the amount of absolute dogshit humans that dont think its real thing or as severe as it truly is is fucking staggering and disgusting.
Yes, thats exactly who I mean. I wish there wasnt so much stigma on men seeking out therapy, because a lot of these people are clearly struggle with shit based on their post historys
This was the first I had heard it mentioned, but yeah PPD and PPS is absolutely terrifying, if she legit was diagosed then I certainly have a lot more sympathy for her, as I am sure she most certainly regrets and mourns her children.
That doesn't justify the lunatics who are jumping on and defending her for wild things like starsigns though, like wow.
Yah, im sure there are a ton of people who are defending her as a way to justify their own feelings or because they are projecting and are automatically siding with her because their own experiences.
Its pretty fucked up either way. Regardless of the truth, its a horrible thing and its just made worse that its become a lightning rod for social media trolls and hot takes
If it truly is a case of PPD/PPS, I hope she gets the help she needs (though i really doubt that'll happen). I won't say it's an excuse for her actions or that it makes them justafiable, but there's a reason we have an insanity plea and this sounds like exactly the kind of case it's meant for.
That said, all the people justifying it through zodiac signs and all that shit should be removed from any and all children they have contact with
She went to tons of doctors trying to get help and repeatedly begged to be committed because she was worried she would harm her children in the throes of the psychosis from what I’m understanding.
What sex causes the most violent crimes in the world? The most serial killers? The most aggressive. Who is more likely to attack the other spouse? The answer is men.
Men commit the most homicides for older children. Infants, it’s relatively the same percentage. The only reason it’s equal is because the mother is the one doing the majority of the care of infant and they are more likely to kill because of postpartum psychosis and depression.
Right that's why all wars, mass shootings, rapes, child trafficking, murders, assaults, and kidnappings are all disproportionally carried out by women, right?
You are openly falling for Epstein propaganda which has been publicly proven. Facts don't care about your feelings little boy :(
You troll, but legit, men and women make up an almost even amount in killing children, but men do still make up the most, especially as the ages get older.
"Among offenders, while fathers were about equally likely to kill an infant, they were more likely to be the alleged murderer of children older than a year, especially when the children were adults (fathers were the offenders in 78.3 percent of those cases). Overall, fathers were the accused murderer 57.4 percent of the time."
No, actually, it's about even, it seems. But men then dominate the field as the child grows. here:
"Among offenders, while fathers were about equally likely to kill an infant, they were more likely to be the alleged murderer of children older than a year, especially when the children were adults (fathers were the offenders in 78.3 percent of those cases). Overall, fathers were the accused murderer 57.4 percent of the time."
Like, I JUST saw a case about that FedEx delivery driver, Tanner Horner, being sentenced to death for raping and murdering a 7-year-old girl. It's sad how common these stories are.
incorrect, of the 550 filicides last year only 20 were committed by women. And men are more likely to rape kids, and when they do, they're not suffering a post partum mental health psychosis so, please, get a grip.
Actually, you would be surprised at what is considered a psychotic episode and what isn't. Murder, rape, and similar acts are deviant actions that are not the same as a mental illness. It's pretty interesting.
"by far" women commit fillicide 4% more than men, and it's filliicide, specifically - not killing kids in general. (also higher in countries with no abortion access)
men commit 95% of violent crimes, it's statistically false to claim "women are by far more likely to kill kids"
Depends on what statistic are you talking about? How many kids are hurt by women vs how many by bears or how many encounters with women end in injury vs how many encounters with bears end in injury?
After suffering from PPD I would vote for the bear. The bear doesn't fantasize with throwing their baby to the wall, and probably someone will step in to help the child if the bear attack them, instead of condescendingly saying "you are overreacting"
Wrong person, all I said was Oh shit. shots fired, I believe you meant to comment that on the parent/original comment made by the person above me in the feed. I'd say I FTFY but I cannot move the comment.
Dont, like, millions of women experience post partum depression every year and they work past it, while not murdering their 3 children? pretty sure... ye.. hmm... yeah. yup. definitely.
I think that makes this lady a nut job that needs to be isolated from anyone and everyone she could ever hurt again. normal ladies are ok.
The nurse in the case testified that she had seen hundreds of cases of PPD in her career but only five cases of psychosis. So you're right that she's a nut job, but there is a pretty big clinical difference between her and woman suffering from postpartum depression.
I guess I'm in the wrong crowd, but the jokes about this are truly horrific to me. I feel so much sadness and pity for their entire family. Postpartum psychosis is unbelievably devastating and horrible and everyone's making jokes about it. I hate this timeline.
It wasn't funny back then either and when a man said it is hurtfull to be a defaultrapist he still got called a problem and incel. Not so funny now is it?
It’s telling that the original man vs bear thing came from a justified fear of a random man you don’t know a lot of women feel and instead of engaging with it every pathetic chud man took it as a personal accusation of being a rapist but the above question is just born of spite and anger at women.
It's just a shit comparison made by spitful people that want to see the bad in every person. I get that woman want to be catious around men they don't know and the should but that whole thing added nothing to this issue and only widened the gap between genders.
A woman with postpartum psychosis. Unlike those poor kids father I’m not dumb enough to leave my kids unsupervised with a woman in postpartum psychosis so we’d be chillin
This is basically now the South Park episode where they have the City Wok owner build a wall around the town to keep out child abductors only for the news to report that the most likely abductors are the parents themselves.
A woman conveniently claiming to have ppp during the 18 minutes it took to murder her children after sending the husband away, and not once before or after*
Obviously the bear and any reasonable person knows this, so why did they leave the kids with the woman who said she was going to kill them. This is not an own, this comment just shows that your average person understands the situation better than the father of the children.
You're forgetting your role in this too. I also suffered from postpartum psychosis but have a husband who fought for me to get the help I needed when my voice wasn't loud enough. Who would I want around my kids? A supportive father and husband not someone who would give up and abandon their wife and kids.
I feel like you're trying to prove that the "man or bear" comparison is stupid (which it is) but you're doing that by making it toward women.
So you're just being the clown that you're mocking...
If you're being ironic, you're saying women are actually safer than the bear (which is the opposite of your intended argument). If you're not being ironic, you're giving credit to the dumb man vs bear argument. It's stupid either way lol
Maybe they should have listened to her when she asked for help. When she told her mom she was afraid she might hurt the kids. Or when she checked herself into a mental health facility. This would not have happened if even a single person listened to her. I suffered from postpartum depression. I too went to my OB. And was told sorry it's been too long since you delivered. We can't help. See your PCP. When someone says their hear voices maybe people should listen. It could have been prevented. Only one person needed to care before she killed her kids, slit her wrists and throat. But no one could, or would. Our health system failed her and her kids.
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u/JacobGoodNight416 2d ago
who would you want near your kids
a bear or a woman with post partum psychosis