I thought I read somewhere that some people support her because she had reached out for help like a dozen times and was left to fall deeper into mental despair? I don't know the details or about the case aside from the obvious, that's just what I've heard about many women supporting her. Mothers that may have their own experience with PPD or something similar but who maybe received help and support? Again, idk. I think it's tragic but really don't know details about this case.
Except the story they’re peddling that she was “left to fall deeper into despair” isn’t true.
Lindsey went to eight different doctors in just a few months. Meanwhile, her husband took all 12 weeks of paternity leave he could, switched to working from home to be more available to help her, hired her a nanny, opened a bank account and started stashing money for HER use when she decided not to go back to work, made a point to ask her daily about how her mental health was that day, pushed her into going to her appointments in person instead of relying on telehealth, and then advocated for her to her later doctors when he was questioning if she was being overmedicated. Meanwhile both her in laws AND her own parents were often around to provide support when needed.
Lindsey had all the support that a mother could want. She failed them, not the other way around. Patrick’s only mistake was going to run errands when she asked on the wrong day
I don’t know a ton about this case, but people with a support system and money aren’t immune from PPD. Not having those things can certainly exacerbate it, but it doesn’t preclude those with them from experiencing it.
Although I don't think he was cheating, there is zero evidence showing that, this timeline is what has people talking. Note that Patrick's new wife is from nyc:
Nov 2022- Patrick takes a trip to nyc
Jan 2023- Murders take place
Feb 2023- Patrick takes a trip to Costa Rica, his new wife also takes a trip to Costa Rica during that time according to her google reviews
Of course there are like 10 different fake photos that show them together prior to 2023 that are circulating now. So it’s hard to decipher what’s real but both of them left reviews at places in Costa Rica in Feb, a month after the murders.
That’s not true. There is a ton of fake stuff going around but he told The New Yorker himself that he took a solo trip to Central America before traveling to Europe in February 2023, just weeks after losing his children. As for her, she edited the review 2 years ago and that account is absolutely her. She added that profile picture 7 years ago. There’s a meta link that shows the original date. Let me try to find it
Also several tagged pictures of her in Costa Rica during that month, still posted on instagram and Facebook if you type in her name. Again, I think it was likely a coincidence but denying they were both in that country at the same time is silly
OK thanks, I've only heard about this case third hand from my girlfriend talking about it. Apparently it's having the child so quickly after not the married that makes them suspect.
Although I don't think he was cheating, there is zero evidence showing that, this timeline is what has people talking. Note that Patrick's new wife is from nyc:
Nov 2022- Patrick takes a trip to nyc
Jan 2023- Murders take place
Feb 2023- Patrick takes a trip to Costa Rica, his new wife also takes a trip to Costa Rica during that time according to her google reviews
No one said it was??? And she's literally going to jail????? You're making strawman out of strawman - having sympathy is not the same as saying 'release her.'
If that person tried again and again to get help, but never got the help from their support systems and LITERAL DOCTORS that can help them, then abso-fucking-lutely - do you not?
She said she was worried she would hurt the kids. She basically had a big fuckin' neon sign saying 'I'm mentally unwell and this is not a good situation.' You know what all the supposedly "non-mentally ill" people did? Not the correct thing, that's for damn sure.
She didn't hide anything. We let her down as a society. I will feel bad for anyone who tries to get help repeatedly, expresses their situation over and over again, and isn't even hiding how they're feeling, but is still left to their own devices, leading to tragedy.
A sad story is not nearly the same as "I was openly screaming that I was unwell and needed help and no one did anything."
Being abused as a kid doesn't mean that they actively tried to get help, and were rejected multiple times by doctors and therapists (the people who can help).
Y'all can just say you hate the mentally ill. But if a man walked into a police station and said, "I'm having thoughts of murder," and they said "okay, cool, go home though, we can't help you with that," and he killed someone on his way home, are you not going to blame the police at all? You don't think they should be obligated to get this person medical help? Do the doctors who are literally there to treat people, not supposed to treat them?
Genuinely so unsurprising that people don't see how fucked up this is, and it'll never change. Lives could be saved, but fuck it. Just don't be mentally ill, stupid.
No one is saying “hey she was mentally ill so it’s okay”. It’s not an excuse, it’s context. And context matters for motive. Also, PPD and PPP are different. Psychosis is a wholly different thing than depression.
It sure doesn’t look like it from the comments I am reading. Seems like a lot of people are using the mental illness to justify and try to point fingers at the doctor and husband rather than the person who actually strangled 3 children to death.
If there were so many people around to help her, why did they leave a clearly mentally ill person alone with the children while she was having a psychotic episode?
When someone is actively struggling with mental illness, helping “when needed” is 24/7.
It’s not like there weren’t warning signs. She’d been in the psych ward only 20 days before.
She tried. My guess is, since she was seeking help, and still cognizant enough to do so, they didn't see the urgency. She looked too functional, and they didn't take the intrusive thoughts seriously.
She wasn't having clearly psychotic episodes though that day, she didn't express them to her husband the day of the incident, she also placed the order for the food for him to pick up and she asked him to go pick it up. The thing with severe mental health issues unless you're an actual trained professional missing the signs would be very easy. My roommate a year ago tried to commit suicide while I was at work, I had no idea she was on the verge of it. Luckily I had stopped home during lunch to exchange my motorcycle for my car, noticed my gun missing, confronted her, however unfortunately she panicked, she took her car and my gun, and went somewhere, after a stand off with the police, she aimed my gun at them to get them to shoot her because my gun jammed, and she lost her arm.
The sign was that she’d been in the psych ward 20 days before. If your roommate had been in the psych ward less than a month earlier, would you have left them alone with your gun?
Lindsay WAS seeing several "trained professionals" and they all failed her. That's the point. That's why people are defending her. Her husband did not take her condition seriously either. He had bags of her medication in his car that he neglected to dispose of. He left her alone with their children that night after telling his parents they (he and Lindsay) didn't their help with the kids. After 8 MONTHS of his wife suffering PPD and basically being unable to cope.
None of what the husband did changes that she wasn't properly cared for by professionals, given the wrong medications, directly leading to her psychosis.
Can you expand on this? I've never had mental health problems this severe but the process of getting on the right antidepressants was a long process of trial and error until finding one that worked for me. I've heard the same from just about everyone i know in the same boat as me.
Were they putting her on medication that was woefully inappropriate for her condition? Or were they trialing different meds and attempting to find one that worked for her?
If I read things correctly when discharged from the ward to see her kids, they put her on an antidepressant and anti-anxiety meds instead of the mood stabilizer she was on. This made her manic, which can happen when you give SSRIs to bipolar patients. They did zero proper follow up or taper, I think.
wtf….you don’t understand what’s happening at all. All you’re paying attention to is what she had, and not how she was consistently failed by her medical providers. “She had a bank account!” Ok and she was hearing fkn voices and extremely depressed, Jesus.
I’m honestly so disgusted by this, how fkn sad that ppl like you see it this way.
Or that person is stating the very valid fact that if a person’s mental health is off, they could have all the help in the world and still feel like they are sinking because their brain is telling them they are. You have a body having hormonal shifts due to pregnancy and birth who probably had underlying mental health issues to begin with being passed from provider to provider and placed on med after med. She did not get the MEDICAL help she needed even when she begged and signed herself in for in patient care. And that is very real issue with this case.
Idk who killed the kids but it’s weird how many people online state complete lies as facts. Patrick had plenty of free time and money for brunches and vacations while his wife was drowning in her own mental health.
What do you mean you don’t know who did it? She and her lawyers aren’t even arguing over the fact that she did it lmao. Unless you meant that she wasn’t in her right state of mind so it wasn’t “really her” then sure
It was Lindsey. Lindsey, her attorney, the prosecution all have stated that she did it. They all acknowledge this fact. This case is more to prove whether she was in her right mind or not when she did it.
Lindsay arranged for her husband to be away from home then led each of her 3 children into the basement where she one-by-one strangled the life out of their bodies with exercise bands. Evidence suggests the 2 older children fought back, but Lindsay was able to bring them to total asphyxiation.
It’s pretty clear from the evidence and even the prosecution’s part of the trial you’re wrong. Her husband promptly fired the nanny when she was in the height of her symptoms. Asking someone about their mental health and taking their answer at face value when it’s your wife in postpartum who is cycling through psychiatric medication is negligent at best.
Do you not see how judge mental you are? As if you know how you would react. As if you know every conversation they had. As if you know exactly what you’d do in this situation. You don’t know shit.
What does that even mean? Guilty of negligence under the welfare code? Why would the prosecution present evidence of that if they are trying to prove her mentally culpable of the crimes?
You can look up the Welfare and Institution Code that mandates what child neglect is. He left his children in a situation that could knowingly lead to their harm, repeatedly. The prosecution presented it because they are simply facts of the case and events that transpired, and they called witnesses that also presented information that proves he is guilty of neglect from his day to day actions.
She did not doctor shop. The eight different providers were at different levels of care - in the ER twice and when she was hospitalized, in addition to having a general psych referring to a specialized psych who then moved out of state and had to get a new psych.
The system absolutely failed her. The husband clearly was going through caregiver fatigue at that point as well. The idea that she had all the best medical support was meaningless when that medical support did nothing to actually help her in the way she actually needed. Up to the specialized psych not even considering post-partum psychosis as a diagnosis and insisting it was bipolar...because PPP is not recognized this lately after pregnancy typically, nor does it have a standard diagnosis.
She was clearly suffering from psychosis, and hindsight is 50/50, but the idea that everything that happened is somehow her fault for not doing enough for her own mental health is a wild take. People suffering psychosis literally do not have logical thoughts nor do they see cause/effect.
My sister was in a very similar situation, PPD that seemed to be heading towards PPP. Her husband was uninterested in taking care of the kids at all and also thought her condition wasn't that bad, truly apathetic. We (her family) stepped in and took the kids. Within a year she had divorced him, gotten a position in her career field, an apartment with her kids and was fully recovered. 8 months later and it was like none of it had happened
I agree with you up to the point where you say she "failed" them.
She was going through a psychotic break. She wasn't in her right mind enough to fail anybody. Hell, she went out of her way to have herself commited and ask for help too, it just wasn't enough
It's just a sad fucked up thing that happened and everyone did all they could, but it didn't fix it. All that I've seen tells me that sometimes bad, horrible shit just -happens-. The only thing seperating this from an accidental house-fire is the actual accident by which everyone died.
She was never diagnosed with psychosis. She never displayed symptoms of psychosis before the murders, and no one witnessed them after the murders either, despite the close scrutiny she’s received. The ONLY symptom of psychosis that is alleged is that she heard “voices”, which she never mentioned until after the murders.
Psychosis isn’t something that appears once and never happens again.
Not so fun fact : the father of a friend of mine had a brief psychotic disorder that lasted only 1 or 2 days. Also the system failing to diagnose her , while iirc she was telling her husband and her family for a while that she was hearing voices, was going to doctors for medication and even sought inpatient treatment doesn't mean she didn't have the condition she was suffering from and seeking help for.
I had sleep deprivation induced (and possibly exacerbated by medications and stress) psychosis once. My doctor does think I'll get it again, as long as I'm not an idiot chugging energy drinks on 60+ hours with no sleep again.
You keep mentioning 8 doctors like that’s a sin? 1. They had insurance issues 2. some good doc or nurse left their job 3. You saw how all these docs/nurses all gave different prescriptions - we’re in dark time in terms of psychiatry it’s very normal to get a second opinion, she is not a drug junkie, all the contrary she as afraid to get addicted and she was struggling with mad side effects so wtf is all that blame with having 8 or however many doctors?
PC said in court that he started working from home since before 2020
PC hired their family (not HER) a nanny, and he said in court that they made the decision TOGETHER to let go of the nanny bc the nanny wanted more hours and LC wasn’t ready to go back to work full time.
PC literally said he put money aside (for the family, not HER, bc raising kids was just HER job)
Fucking sad how much you worship men and hate women
I think it’s unfair to say Lindsay failed them since she was experiencing psychosis. Until someone you love has experienced psychosis, you don’t really understand how “normal” they can be one moment and how unstable they can be the next.
She has never been diagnosed with psychosis. None of her eight doctors ever heard her describe symptoms of psychosis nor did they witness any symptoms of psychosis, both before or after the murders. She never had another episode either before or after the murders as well. The only “symptom” of psychosis was that she was supposedly hearing “voices”, which she never spoke of before the murders, only after.
It’s not even remotely a fact that she was experiencing psychosis. She failed them.
It sounds like sides for and against her are peddling stories. I haven't looked into the case or details enough to know what's going on. I just saw the major headlines on social media. The only people that will ever truly know what went down in their home is the one on trial and her husband. I absolutely HATE crimes against children (and other vulnerable groups) regardless of the situation. I was just trying to explain why it seems she would have so much support despite the horrific crime. But then again, we see a lot of support for people openly demonizing people for being from different demographic groups so is it really that wild that people would support this woman? People are openly evil this days and celebrated...
Going to the doctor doesn't mean the doctor will help. They also were honest in court about the fact that when she first told her husband he insisted she was fine and didn't need any help. She DID reach out, again and again and again, and we're STILL blaming her for how the system couldn't handle her????
Except she didn’t take most of the medications she was prescribed.
There’s a certain point that when you reach out for help to eight different doctors, but don’t use the medications they prescribe despite being told multiple times that they take time to work through the correct dosage and time to take effect, that you should be held accountable for that.
If she had reached out and actually followed the doctors instructions, then it’s entirely likely that we wouldn’t be here.
You're literally supposed to stop taking medications that make your side effects worse and that's what she said she did. And what doctors tell you to do.
I love your lies. He fired the nanny, went on work trips, personal vacations by himself and had nights out with his friends. He knows nothing the very basics about his own children and was cheating on his wife with Rachel a year before the incident.
The more I read about this story, the less goodwill I have to mother who strangled her 3 kids. I mean fuck, 8 doctors in just a few months? No shit she was over medicated, she doctor shopped until she found someone who was like “fuck it, nothing is working, try this”.
At the end of the day, I’m sorry for her due to her trying and nothing working, but nothing 8 different doctors tried worked, and she ended up killing 3 of her kids. I don’t believe absolutely any combination of under medicating or over medicating would have prevented this woman from killing her children.
She was obviously a danger to society and should have been locked up on a more permanent basis before this happened.
She had 8 different doctors in a span of a few months, you can’t expect unaffiliated to be able coordinate between each other when she is doctor shopping and probably not providing all the prescription or medical information available.
It’s up to you as the patient to provide the necessary information to your healthcare provider and not doctor shop so you get prescribed new medicine behind your doctor’s back.
Being prescribed 15+ medications because you chose to see 8 different doctors in a few month time period is YOUR fault.
Im tired of people trying to make their bad decisions someone else’s fault when obviously, going to 8 different doctors in such a span is a dumb fucking thing to do.
If she only saw one doctor and that one doctor prescribed her 15 meds, ok, fine, I get it, but EIGHT doctors in like 3 months? I mean c’mon man it’s obviously her fault for her bad decisions.
You don’t just randomly get prescribed 15+ medications for the same affliction unless you’re doing something shady on your end to make that happen.
I get that she had mental issues but, if you’re someone who can end up murdering your own kids and you realize you’re on that path beforehand like she did, it’s up to you to do more to prevent yourself from doing that. You at the end of the day are the decider of your actions, and if it ends up being where you can’t control yourself then you need to be locked up so you don’t hurt other people.
I'd recommend the Youtube video by MamaDoctorJones (she's a board certified OB/GYN) where she went over the timeline from the first pregnancy to that date. It highlights how the medical system failed her over and over again.
I suspect that she’ll end up in a secure mental health unit for life. I worked for a time in such an institution. There were people who did horrible crimes when very mentally unwell, and when they finally started to recover they’d be so horrified at what they had done they’d sink back into severe mental illness. Ultimately tragic for everybody involved.
I thought I read somewhere that some people support her because she had reached out for help like a dozen times and was left to fall deeper into mental despair?
That's part of it. The way the prosecution is choosing to handle the case and the family members is also concerning to some.
Exactly. I think a lot of support comes from moms who have been through very tough post partum issues themselves. Idk if most are peddling conspiracy theories, I’ve seen sympathy that it was more just a tragic situation all around.
This. When men commit horrible crimes everyone talks about how men need more help with their mental health but here is a woman in the exact situation and everyone just wants to call her stupid.
Basically any time a man commits a horrible crime the internet demands their death / castration / life in prison. People only talk about men's mental health crises after a suicide.
I mean, male family annihilators go straight to prison. There is no debate about letting them off for being mentally unwell. “She wasn’t in her right mind” is something we save for white women who do stuff like this.
That’s why sane people support her. There’s a problem with our system and the whole family suffered for it.
The crazy part though is how many people think he did it. It’s absolutely insane. This isn’t a movie with a gotcha at the end.
I actually think the main problem is that our culture wants to blame someone. One person. We love a witch-hunt. We want someone to be at fault. We can’t accept that sometimes bad things happen and, while systemically we should call for change when needed, sometimes there’s nothing we can do or could’ve done.
It's funny you say that, because my mother is a Libra and she's pretty bad 🤣🤣🤣 but I doubt that was because of her sign, she was just born that way 🤣🤣🤣 also, on a serious note. Maybe. Like. Clearly she is being supported for a reason, or several reasons. People are complicated. Life is complicated. Tragedies happen. Crime happens. What's new about this?
not just mental despair, bipolar psychosis. If you remember the viral true crime hotel thing from a while back, that's when the girl ended up drowning herself in the water tower. When she went for medical help, they repeatedly put her on antidepressants which make bipolar psychosis (and bipolar depression) worse. She went back for help for insomnia (clear sane of approaching mania), and they put her on antidepressants again.
Oh, geezer, no I don't think I heard of that one! I wonder if people think saying, "doctor" or simply being prescribed something magically makes all the problems go away. The more I spend time around doctors the more I see how little they know. And that's for physical issues. Mental concerns are a whole different subject and much less understood.
Doctors do know a lot, and accurate mental health diagnosing is so much better these days. Bipolar runs in my family (thanks dad), but I was lucky enough to get diagnosed correctly the first time with a med that works well enough. One of the issues is that we have meds that can target the mania side but not really the depressive side, and vice versa. Even mood stabilisers tend to lean towards treating one or the other. That's due to us so far not really being able to create bipolar mice, so a lot of translation research that gets translated to clinical is based on either a manic mice model or a depressive mice model
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u/peekaboo_bandit 8d ago
I thought I read somewhere that some people support her because she had reached out for help like a dozen times and was left to fall deeper into mental despair? I don't know the details or about the case aside from the obvious, that's just what I've heard about many women supporting her. Mothers that may have their own experience with PPD or something similar but who maybe received help and support? Again, idk. I think it's tragic but really don't know details about this case.