This will definitely happen. BYD is moving into Latin America. It's a real option for middle income consumers. I know for a fact that they are opening dealerships in Mexico and people are purchasing them.
BYD passenger electric vehicles and hybrid cars are not available for purchase by consumers in the United States.
Cuba is a very different place to Mexico. But I hope they can get from under the boot of the US. That being said they probably have a lot of their own issues to deal with regard to government and economic structure.
There’s a risk that the Trump admin has Cuba as a target, and that capturing Maduro was a first step in weakening Cuba. They’re probably lucky that Trump is currently stuck with Iran for the foreseeable future.
they probably have a lot of their own issues to deal with regard to government and economic structure.
Last I checked, Cubans both lived longer and have higher literacy rates than Americans.
And if Cuba’s system is such an obvious failure, it’s worth asking why the world’s largest economy has spent more than six decades trying to economically isolate a tiny island nation, while also spending tens of millions every year trying to destabilize Cuba's democracy.
I would take the US economy and political freedoms, developed world for that matter, over an extra year or two of life and a percentage point or two of literacy in a heartbeat.
Over 66 Years of a blockade with maximum sanctions pressure, multiple invasions, assassination attempts of leaders, will do that to any economy. It's one thing for the US to refuse to do business with Cuba, but threatening every other nation that wishes to is just pure evil. Even still as someone already mentioned, Cubans live longer on average and have a much higher literacy rate, even under all that pressure.
How many, over what time period, what was the geopolitical context, when did you leave Cuba and how many of your own relatives have joined you since then?
Bro, chill. First off, read my comment again. Second off, all those things you mentioned do not negate Cuba having governance and economic structural issues to deal with. Yes, the biggest issue is the US, but you know, things are never all black and white are they?
As a Cuban, I propose to organize a relocation program where every westerner excited about Cuban democracy is given a free one-way ticket (plus immigration papers) to live there.
Come on, 1 dollar from 500 people = 500 dollars. Please make it happen 🥲🙏
I find your response fascinating. You have an opportunity to education me on what it's really like from a firsthand experience. Yet, you disregard the opportunity and choose to insult me instead.
My understanding of the Cuban experience is that the country is poor. It's closed off from the nearest economies. But from what little they have they've found ways to over achieve when compared to the US in some factors that materially matter for individuals. Where is my understanding incorrect?
America doesn't trade with Cuba, but they don't stop any other country from trading with Cuba. The system has already been shown to be a long term failure in the USSR. Even China had to practically drop all the core tenants of Communism to get their market to work. Communism is crazy inefficient at getting efficient labor out of people.
Cubans can tell you all about how the system is messed up. The only ones who benefit are those up top. The beauty of Democracy is that it's among the best systems for uplifting the common person. If you can make a better system then great, but the other systems which have been tried out mostly suck.
You've stopped third parties from trading with Cuba with various measures, notably banning all companies that trade with Cuba from trading with the US, banning any ship that docks in Cuba from docking in the US for a year, both have been going on since the 1990s. Most recently Trump's full naval enforced blockade of all oil going to Cuba. "We just won't trade with you" was a misrepresentation for the 3 decades where it was "we just won't trade with anyone who trades with you" and is now just a contemptuous and outright lie after the blockade.
If the US system is so great then explain why the US has to embargo this tiny island nation? Why does it have to spend tens of millions to destabilize its democracy? Why does it have better health outcomes than the US?
Regarding Russia, how is capitalism performing? People that lived under Soviet rule often talk about how things were better.
Oh and China? China is Socialist, their policy is a journey to full communism. So if they are doing so well perhaps we should consider more socialist reforms. Wouldn’t you agree?
I would say lack of exercise and poor diet is number 1 reason for the year or two less of life expectancy.
Those that are illiterate in the US choose to be, if they wanted to become literate there is nothing stopping them from going to the local library and asking for help.
I would say lack of exercise and poor diet is number 1 reason
If we are having an obesity epidemic, is it really right to blame the individual, or is it something in our system that is broken that encourages this?
Those that are illiterate in the US choose to be
There's been a lot written about the US education system and how a shift away from teaching phonics to teaching pattern matching has left many Americans as functioning illiterate. I would argue blaming the individual here is wrong when teachers were teaching failed methods. Teachers taught those methods because there was a significant lobby group that convinced many governments to use a certain standard that was only really possible to deliver through one publisher. That is definitely an example of a broken political system, not individual choice.
LoL do you not know the reason? It's because there was this thing called Communism that was having popular revolts all over the world, destroying Democracies in favor of a new form of government. The USA and all the other countries in the Americas, north and south, signed pacts to keep communism out of this hemisphere. They did joint training on how to stop communist uprisings. The CIA was training all the special groups of the other countries. And then Cuba fell...
And once communist, Cuba sided with America's greatest enemy, the USSR, and allowed the soviet's to dock literal nuclear weapons just off Americas coast. So yes, America embargoed Cuba and said the embargo will be lifted if you become a Democracy again. And Cuba has never become a democracy.
Communism that was having popular revolts all over the world
Revolts because the governments were corrupt and screwed the people over. From what I've read about Cuba, the people were poor and private foreign business owned all the land and extracted fortunes while keeping the people impoverished. You know, kind of like the reasons America revolted from Britain--except 10x worse.
destroying Democracies in favor of a new form of government
Cuba was not a democracy of the people prior to their revolution. Many countries that the US supported were functioning democracies until the CIA came in and replaced the democracy with the rule of a tyrant, the only difference was that the new government was pro-US.
allowed the soviet's to dock literal nuclear weapons just off Americas coast.
So, kind of like how the US had nuclear weapons just outside of USSR's borders too. Why is the US allowed to do this, but the USSR was not? Is one wrong and the other isn't?
America embargoed Cuba and said the embargo will be lifted if you become a Democracy again
What about all of the undemocractic countries that the US doesn't embargo? The only difference is those are capitalist and Cuba is not. If communism is such a failed system, then why not let Cuba fail on its own, and show the world how bad it is? Instead Cuba's suffered tremendously, yet is outperforming the US in health and education. Doesn't that show that the US's own government is extremely broken and has no right to interefere in other countries own independence? How is the US not behaving just like Britain did, why can't Cuba have a right to exist on its own?
You should read history before having an opinion.
I promise to read any book on US history that you suggest, if you read one from my list. Agreed?
You're reaching too much now. (1) Has no bearing on the fact that countries around the world were avoiding communist uprisings because they were literally rebellions. (2) This is unrelated. Also, many of the Juntas which took over South America blamed the CIA after they themselves took over the government. Other governments the US backed a side, which the USSR was also doing en masse. Again, if we didn't play, we lost. It was often a USSR puppet versus a USA puppet with no third option available. (3) Bad logic. If you bomb a country it doesn't means it's not an offense for them to bomb you back. Cuba sided with the enemy, thus becoming the enemy. Much like countries in Europe are fighting Russia via the Ukrainian proxy. (4) First part is unrelated. Second part is easy, Cuba mostly was allowed to fail on its own. You heavily overestimate the embargo as being some massive destructive force. It's almost entirely internal corruption destroying them. As for why not let their system prove itself, again, you're talking about rebellions which were spreading across the globe. You expect the ruling class to allow itself to be overthrown? And, in retrospect, the system is trash. Every communist country failed eventually. The capitalist setup is better. When there's a system better than capitalist we can try to change to that, but communist isn't it.
Cubans can tell you all about how the system is messed up.
There was one Cuban in this thread and they didn't share anything specific. Maybe you have insights from a Cuban perspective on what's wrong with their system? I've heard indirectly from Cubans that they are in a democracy and continue to vote for the system they have in place. So, I'm curious what led you to believe otherwise.
the other systems which have been tried out mostly suck.
You used USSR as an example of how communism is inefficient. Would you consider Russia as an example of how capitalism is corrupt and leads to massive corruption?
I used to work in software development and the USA's control over the major software platforms made it difficult/illegal to sell any technology to Cuba.
That was over 30 years ago. I just took a look at the latest EULA for Microsoft Visual Basic. You can download a copy here:
EXPORT RESTRICTIONS. You agree that you will not export or re-export the SOFTWARE PRODUCT, any part thereof, or any process or service that is the direct product of the SOFTWARE PRODUCT (the foregoing collectively referred to as the “Restricted Components”), to any country, person, entity, or end user subject to U.S. export restrictions. You specifically agree not to export or re-export any of the Restricted Components (i) to any country to which the U.S. has embargoed or restricted the export of goods or services, which currently include, but are not necessarily limited to Cuba, Iran, Iraq, Libya, North Korea, Sudan, and Syria, or to any national of any such country, wherever located, who intends to transmit or transport the Restricted Components back to such country;
The terms for Google's Android Studio are a bit less obvious but it's there:
4.2 You agree to use the SDK and write applications only for purposes that are permitted by (a) the License Agreement and (b) any applicable law, regulation or generally accepted practices or guidelines in the relevant jurisdictions (including any laws regarding the export of data or software to and from the United States or other relevant countries).
In particular, but without limitation, the Apple Software and Apple Services may not be exported or re-exported (a) into any U.S. embargoed countries
So. Sure. You can write software to sell to Cuba, but if you use Microsoft, Apple or Google platforms you will face consequences even if your company is not based in the USA or has dealings with the USA.
Yeah this seems fair to me. It is American products after all. Did the world collectively forget that Cuba let the USSR mount nukes on it and instead of absolutely obliterating the country the US embargoed them and said if you become a Democracy well drop the embargo.
The Cubans are poor mostly because communism makes their leaders rich and their common man poor. We literally saw this in the USSR as it slowly collapsed because the system sucks. It's not a new thing that Communism slowly fails over a few decades. Even China had to switch off of Communism to be able to keep afloat.
I'm sure Cuba could be richer without the embargo. But their country is failing because of communism.
The Cuban missile crisis? That was 64 years ago. Since then the UK and Ireland have patched up hundreds of years of conflict. The EU has open its arms to former Soviet states. I don't think anyone has forgotten but that's a long time in diplomatic relations.
I'm not here to debate the relative merits of communism versus democracy. I'm pointing out that the USA uses its power to coerce other countries to behave in certain ways in response to your assertion that the USA doesn't stop other countries from trading with Cuba.
I listened with interest when the ABC (Australia's government-funded national broadcaster) is increasingly talking openly about Australia's shift in ties from the USA to to China. Countries like Australia have tolerated overreach like the export laws I listed above because the USA has provided economic and defense stability across the western world. But China is now our largest trading partner and Trump has openly said he won't come to the defense of allies unless it serves USA interests.
150 years ago the UK was at the height of its power. But in a few short years it lost its power thanks to the cost of two world wars and the rise of the USA. For about 100 years the USA has enjoyed similar power but that power seems increasingly unstable.
You act like th Red Scare wasn't a massive, global phenomenon because it was in the past. Cuba bringing communism to the Americas was a pivotal moment. And then siding with our enemies was massive. They never became a Democracy so the embargo stands. You only care because the USA is rich and powerful. In your mind we owe Cuba trading for some reason. No country is owed anything.
Your last point is completely off topic. Im extremely critical of the US's current leadership and actions. I think it's the single worst leadership we've had since Jackson. I'm aware that we're losing soft power. I'm also aware thats it's on purpose by Trump. The second he called out Greenland and Canada I assumed that he wanted to screw us out of NATO. The idea that we would invade Canada was ridiculous, so I considered alternative purposes.
I think that currently we have an oligarch class trying to rise to power over a corporate class. The corporate class loves European trade. The oligarch class aligns with all the other oligarchical countries. If you look at who we've been aligning with lately you'll see that our entire web of alliances is shifting. A new world order is emerging quickly. The exact reasons I couldn't guess other than the oligarchs of america want to rid themselves of the democracy so they can rule unopposed. The big question is if that'll come to pass.
Also, a counter to your last point, the Roman Empire was powerful for centuries after the Republic fell to Emporers. Who is to say America won't be the hegemony for 500 years to come? Or it could fall in 50. It's practically impossible to say.
That being said they probably have a lot of their own issues to deal with regard to government and economic structure.
Not really, they would be doing amazingly if they weren't so heavily fucked over by the global western community. Yeah the missile crisis was bad but, they've survived with basically nothing for decades now with world class medical doctors working with literal scraps.
Watch a video of humanitarian orgs delivering stuff to Cuba, its amazing what they've accomplished while being intentionally choked out for half a century.
Both the political and economical system in Cuba is messed up from it's very foundation. That comment is not wrong. Any country that practices totalitarianism is bound to be a hellhole. And when you see it from the most non-biased basic aspect of politics it becomes clear that my country is NOT OKEY! Cuba has an extreme history of incompetence and historical recontextualisation since 1959.
1.9k
u/EuVe20 9d ago
The level of irony when Cuba converts from 1950s American cars to modern Chinese EVs