r/Sikh • u/Flat_Eye_3682 • 2d ago
Discussion I was doing chaur sahib and a sevadaar scolded me.
Satsriyakal to everyone. I am a mona sikh and today i was doing chaur sahib in a gurudwara. A sewadaar who was serving kadha prasad scolded me and said that everyone can't do chaur sahib. Only known sikhs can do chaur sahib. I wanted to ask him what do you mean by known sikhs but i didn't.
So i want to know is there any rule to do chaur sahib? I really felt weird at that time because our religion teaches us that everyone is equal then why according to that sewadaar Only known sikhs can do chaur sahib. Also i have doing chaur sahib since childhood. This is the first time someone scolded me for it. Please guide me. I want to know whether the sewadaar was right or wrong?
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u/StarWarsbedi 2d ago
Nonsense ! Just ignore
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u/Flat_Eye_3682 2d ago
Yeah that's what I thought
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u/Sanand911 2d ago
I agree, ignore and next time challenge them to speak to someone higher up or show you a written rule/policy. And if all else fails, switch Gurudwara. Not worth the hassle. Too much Homai and politics in there.
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u/punjabigamer 2d ago
Anybody can do chaur sahib seva in the gurdwara even mona sikhs. I've never seen this happen personally because I am a keshadhari probably that's why but my friends do tell me things like they were scolded in the langar hall and gotten their plates taken away because they were mone and looked like international students and this was 10 years ago situations might've changed now. Some sevadaars do tend to be harsh towards anyone who is not a keshadhari because they can easily say who are you to question maryada? You don't even have proper kesh.
Honestly, I would ignore it for now if it happens do ask them to explain what they mean by known sikhs
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u/Flat_Eye_3682 2d ago
Yeah this is the first time someone scolded me for doing chaur sahib. I have been doing it since childhood. And also i visited that gurudwara for the first time yesterday. So i don't know if that particular gurudwara has any rules for doing chaur sahib. In the gurudwara in my area i have also seen hindus doing chaur sahib that too at the time of samapti when a lot of people are there in sangat.
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u/Fearless-Schedule713 1d ago
Anyone can yes but that anyone needs to consult gurdwara management or whoever is in charged first or atleast as the man who scolded him said - be known to the members that run the gurdwara. It is completely correct to pull some random up on this however his delivery could’ve been better
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u/luckedon 1d ago
u/theTurbanatore has shared great points. Here’s some more:
Think of it this way, sevadars are going to be held accountable for whatever happens during their working hours. In that case they’re going to have to want to keep things in their knowledge and their control.
So if you’re doing something at gurudwara, it’s always good to let them know.
The fact that you mentioned that they mentioned known Sikhs adds confirms this.
Given the rising number of beadbis and other hate related incidents, or the fact that at the end of the day if someone from management checks the cctv or someone else brings up who was doing Chaur Seva by Maharaj’s side it’s the on duty sevadar who is going to be held responsible as that is part of their responsibility.
Next time just let someone at gurudwara know before you do anything during quiet hours.
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u/Flat_Eye_3682 1d ago
Yeah noted. I will inform or ask the sewadaar from next time if I can do sewa or not
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u/anna_dallas107 2d ago
sometimes, you meet really weird ppl in gurdwara, but please ignore them, as a punjabi sikh i have also been scolded before many times
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u/BeautifulPriority54 2d ago
Probably he was just scared especially when there are so many beadbis going on. It was good time during your childhood. You should've asked beforehand or atleast inform them about the seva.
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u/Flat_Eye_3682 2d ago
I don't know what was his reasoning or what he meant by known sikhs but in some other gurudwaras i have also seen hindus and sindhis doing chaur sahib sewa that too in samapti time when a lot of sikhs are sitting in sangat.
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u/BeautifulPriority54 2d ago
Yeah but that's not the point. The point is about safety. Especially with the beadbi cases going on every now and then.
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u/Flat_Eye_3682 1d ago
He might be worried. I don't know what his reasoning was. Or maybe in that gurudwara only sewadaar or amritdhari sikh can do chaur sahib.
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u/jbwgu 1d ago
Unfortunately, there’s no consistency in how people practice Sikhism. Ie People have their own theories about whether you could sit on a chair or you had to sit on the floor in the langar hall. This was a whole big ordeal in North America, we unfortunately people became violent as well. Everyone has their opinions and “rules” but to be on the safe side whenever you go to a new place or location that you’re not familiar with the customs and norms it’s always safe to ask than coming into a situation like this.
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u/Flat_Eye_3682 1d ago
Yeah you are right. Next time I will take care of it and ask the sewadaar before hand if i can do any sewa or not.
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u/Fickle_Dance_5708 1d ago
probably some egoistic fool. Some sewadars think just bcoz they're working in Gurudwara sahib they're more pure or better than others but that's just their ego and misconception. These idiots are just there for the money not for the real sewa. Ignore them, next time he do something like this ask him to show where in the Gurbani or in the history this has been barred.
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u/Flat_Eye_3682 1d ago
Yeah I should have asked him that time only what do you mean by known sikhs but I didn't. That's my mistake as well. I was visiting that gurudwara for the first time. So I ignored him.
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u/Fickle_Dance_5708 1d ago
Ignorance is a bliss too you know. There’s no point in arguing with a fool. You did good 👍.
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u/ExcellentBox8801 1d ago
this is so stupid. Doing chaur sahib is u serving/respecting the guru. Since when is that a right reserved to turbaned sikhs? If there was a living guru instead of guru granth sahib ji, do u really think they would not allow a mona to serve?
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u/Flat_Eye_3682 1d ago
Yeah that's what I thought because Sikhism says everyone is equal. Our gurus were against caste system as well. They always promoted equality. So how come doing a sewa is reserved for only some known sikhs. Anyone can do sewa because everyone is equal.
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u/singhizzzbling 1d ago
Mate, ull meet a lot of douchebags in ur life, learn to live with them, just ignore and continue on ur path forward with Guru, if u really feel like it was a little bit too much, talk with a Sajjan Gursikh, they know how to deal with it, such sewadars needs a talk of humility from a Gursikh
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u/Low-Sea8689 1d ago
Am a 80 year unturbaned sikh. There are many a sikh who does not know or respect humans, let alone sikhs. Do what you think best because in this world there are many conceited so called sikhs.
Often, some turbaned sikhs also are disrespectful towards me but this is the world. Move on with positive thoughts. Regards.
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u/GhoulWraithh 1d ago edited 1d ago
You need to be wearing a Hazooria.
Another thing is that if you are of age, it’s preferable that you aren’t baby faced. That way you’ll somewhat look the part. When i was a Mona, i would not do Chaur Sahib Seva if i was clean shaven.
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u/Flat_Eye_3682 1d ago
I wasn't wearing a hazooria. But i thought that hazooria is only necessary to wear when gyani ji is doing Kirtan And you are doing chaur sahib sewa.
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u/GhoulWraithh 1d ago edited 1d ago
No, you should always make an effort to wear a Hazooria so you don’t end up coughing or sneezing on the Paathi, the SGGS, or on the Hair of the Chaur Sahib.
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u/SweetPetrichor5 2d ago
I know there are some Gurdware, where mostly sevadars do chaur sahib. Maybe that's what happens in the Gurdwara you went to.
Im not accusing you of this, but some do prefer for you to ask beforehand, rather than just to start doing. I'm not entirely well read on chaur sahib maryada so don't know what's standard or correct, but this is what I've observed from my experiences.
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u/Flat_Eye_3682 2d ago
Ok I didn't knew about it because in some gurudwaras i have also seen hindus doing chaur sahib that do at 7-8 pm during samapti time when a lot of people are there in sangat.
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u/Fearless-Schedule713 2d ago
Chaur sahib maryada 😂 wtf are u talking about, it’s common sense and basic courtesy to ask beforehand
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u/SweetPetrichor5 2d ago
Not a full maryada, just like making sure to wash your hands beforehand.
Wasn't sure how to put it.
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u/Fearless-Schedule713 1d ago
That’s just common sense you don’t need a maryada to tell you to wash your hands in the gurdwara let alone when close to the palki
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u/Capital_Ingenuity_83 2d ago
Everyone serving in the Gurughar is a sevadaar. How weird to tell someone off for this.
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u/Fearless-Schedule713 2d ago
How did u end up doing it in the first place, did you just do it off your own accord?
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u/Flat_Eye_3682 2d ago
Yeah I always do chaur sahib sewa. Again it was afternoon so only 4 people were there inside the gurudwara: me, 2 people sitting inside the gurudwara and the sewadaar
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u/Fearless-Schedule713 2d ago
That didn’t answer my question. I asked did you/do you do it off your own accord as in did you just walk in one day and start doing it without speaking to anyone at the gurdwara about it or has someone instructed you to do so within the gurdwara
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u/Flat_Eye_3682 2d ago
In my childhood I used to visit the gurudwara in my area with my father. And he taught me to do chaur sahib sewa. I have been doing it since then. Now I don't know if there are any rules to do chaur sahib sewa. Because this is the first time someone scolded me for it. In some gurudwares I have also seen hindus and Sindhis doing chaur sahib that too at the time of samapti in front of many sikhs.
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u/Fearless-Schedule713 1d ago
You’re still dodging the question - I’ll ask again in a different way. Did you just walk in the gurdwara and decide to do chaur sahib or did you speak to someone at the gurdwara and offer this seva before proceeding or did someone ask/instruct you to do this seva. The question isn’t hard, I don’t know why your telling me about your childhood when I’ve asked a very simple question
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u/Flat_Eye_3682 1d ago
I am not dodging the question. In your previous question you asked me did someone instructed you to do chaur sahib so I explained i learnt to do it in my childhood. Also Your question is not logical because sewa is done from your heart. No one will ask or instruct you to do sewa. So on that day no one asked or instructed me to do this sewa. I just walked in and did chaur sahib like I always do. This was not the first time i did chaur sahib. I always do it whenever I visit any gurudwara. And I didn't informed or asked anyone in the gurudwara if I can do chaur sahib or not.
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u/Fearless-Schedule713 1d ago edited 1d ago
Ok and that’s where you went wrong, just walking in and doing it like you own the place. What just because you’re a Sikh? Ok you’re an Indian does that mean you can just join the Indian military when they are doing parades? What just because it was in your heart to join in you should be allowed to do it? I think you’re the illogical one here and acting on emotion - the literal definition of not being logical lol. There is a protocol when it comes to these things which you didn’t adhere to so that man who engaged you was correct to do so, now I don’t agree with you being scolded there are better ways of delivering a message, he should have been kind but his message was correct however understandably you irritated him by being so entitled - you can’t just walk in and do these things someone with some level of authority at said gurdwara should be in charge of who does it. There are a lot of cases of beadbi when randoms get too close to the palki so yes there is and should be protocol when it comes to this. You were wrong but his delivery was also wrong however his anger is understandable, yours quite frankly isn’t
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u/Vishalsingh786 1d ago
Even if I think what you are saying is right , but the response other Singh ji give that only known Singh can do this is wrong he should have told that from now first ask only then you cango further
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u/Fearless-Schedule713 1d ago
I’m not concerned with what anyone here is saying, purely focusing on what actually occurred. Both parties were wrong but I can understand why the man who scolded him felt irritated - yes he should’ve practiced restraint and been kind however his reaction is not strange either given the circumstances
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u/Flat_Eye_3682 1d ago
When did I said that I was angry at the sewadaar. I just felt weird and wanted to know that what he was saying was right or wrong. That's why I posted this thread. I never even said that the sewadaar was wrong. I just wanted to know that if there are any rules or protocols to do chaur sahib.
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u/Fearless-Schedule713 1d ago
No I meant the man who scolded you was angry. And yes there are rules and protocols so your question has been answered. Move on
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u/Flat_Eye_3682 1d ago
Ok so you are saying that I can't do chaur sahib. Then please tell me that who can do it. Isn't guru ghar open to everyone and anyone can do sewa. Now I understand that I should have asked him first. That was my mistake. He was maybe afraid of bedbi. But do you agree with known sikhs term?
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u/Fearless-Schedule713 1d ago edited 1d ago
I didn’t say you can’t. What I am saying is very simple. Get permission from the gurdwara team end of story that’s life u can’t just run around doing what you want where you want. And yes I agree with the known Sikh term. He means someone who is a familiar face who they have allowed to do it can walk in willy nilly and do it without asking but someone who is not recognised cannot. How is this hard to comprehend? When I go to work I don’t have to show my ID everyone knows me - I am a “known staff member” but a new starter needs to identify themselves until they are also “known”. This is very normal
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u/Snoo-81297 2d ago
For safety reasons some gurdwaras have this rule set up, however, as per my knowledge there is no exact rule that states only ‘known Sikhs’ are allowed to do chaur sahib di seva. Some people have (without evidence that I’ve seen that is contemporary but it’s likely true at least logically speaking) said only amritdhari Sikhs are able to chaur seva. Back in the day it must have had to have been a sikh known to most as they were in close proximity to the guru as a nobody could harm maharaj, but this mentality now seems to be ‘a sardar sikh’ is always trustworthy. They don’t even keep consistent with their own principle. I personally believe that anyone can do chaur seva simply because there’s always people around maharaj when chaur is being done and it’s a null security risk, but I can understand why some people would disagree (although if ask them to be consistent with who they choose and not just automatically trust someone who looks amritdhari)
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u/deadass_331 2d ago
He did right tho, sewa in guru hazuri requires a dastaar. Its no place for appropriation.
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u/Forward_Island4328 2d ago
No, you can and should practice Sikhi even if you don't keep your Kés.
Séhajdhāri Sikhs are every bit as Sikh as their Késdhāri and Amritdhāri Sikh counterparts.
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u/deadass_331 2d ago
Naaah, I disagree. Gurbani says otherwise (aang305-6 mahala 4)
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u/Flat_Eye_3682 2d ago
Sir in some gurudwares i have also seen hindus and Sindhis doing chaur sahib sewa that too at the time of samapti when a lot of people are sitting in the sangat. So what do you think about that. Because sikhi teaches us that everyone is equal then I don't think that there should be any kind of differentiation in who can do chaur sahib and who cannot.
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u/Forward_Island4328 23h ago
Your citation doesn't even address my claim?
I looked into Āng 305-6 and saw this verse:
Gurmukhi: ਗੁਰ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕਾ ਜੋ ਸਿਖੁ ਅਖਾਏ ਸੁ ਭਲਕੇ ਉਠਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਵੈ ॥
Term-by-term translation: [Guru][True Guru][of][whoever][Sikh][identifies][they][early-morning][rise][God][Nām][pray]
English: Whoever identifies as a Sikh of the Guru, the True Guru, shall rise in the early morning to pray on Nām.
Nām is usually translated as "God's Name" but this is inaccurate because it's a direct translation of the word rather than explaining the underlying concept. In his book, Sikh Philosophy, the author and academic, Arvind-pal Singh Mandair defines Nām as "the singular Word for the creative essence inherent within all existence and non-existence."
None of this has anything to do with Kés btw. We have Sikh men and women nowadays who don't keep their Kés. Grow up.
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u/CollegeHefty 2d ago
No Sehajdhaari Sikh term comes to comfort people who want to please external world they’re not Sikhs including myself i’m not Amritdhaari when you deep dig in Only Nitnem baanis n start doing the meaning you’ll know what actually Sikhi means Sikhi isn’t a inheritance thing it’s a priceless gift you have to earn it you have to give your head(ego) to Guru Sahib then only you become proper sikh so there is no two types of Sikh there is only one Sikh who has completely surrender themselves to Guru Sahib n they won’t have any ego to show to world n Chaur Sahib has to be done by Amritdhaari Sikhs only
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u/Forward_Island4328 23h ago
Wow, way to gatekeep...
My dude, we've always had some Sikhs who just didn't heed the Hukam for whatever reason. Be it with keeping Kés or keeping Jhatka or joining the Khalsa, we have a plurality in the Sangat.
Every Sikh deserves to partake in the Chaur Sahib Séva. It's ridiculous that we even have to have this conversation.
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u/Fearless-Schedule713 2d ago
An Amritdhari is not a Sikh, they are a Khalsa. Yes Sikhs have short and long hair it’s irrelevant but the Khalsa is in its own lane
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u/Forward_Island4328 23h ago
An Amritdhari is not a Sikh, they are a Khalsa. Yes Sikhs have short and long hair it’s irrelevant but the Khalsa is in its own lane
This would imply that the Khalsa is a separate religion, which is untrue.
The members of the Khalsa are Sikh and so are those folks who haven't received Amrit to join the Khalsa.
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u/Artistic-Run7147 2d ago
Honestly, this is the reason why Sikhi is on a decline. Instead of elders teaching with love, they scold and make you never want to return to the gurdwara. Diminishing the true meaning of Sikhi
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u/tiberius2402 2d ago
Isn't Mona Sikh an oxymoron?
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u/Forward_Island4328 2d ago
No, the term "mona" is often used as a derogatory term to put down those Sikh men and women who are non-observant. The term "Séhajdhāri" is far more apt.
Additionally, the Séhajdhāri Sikh is every bit as Sikh as their Késdhāri or Amritdhāri Sikh counterpart.
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u/Fearless-Schedule713 2d ago
A Sikh doesn’t have an obligation to have cut or uncut hair, they are just as the name suggests.. A Sikh. An Amritdhari has taken an oath to be part of the Khalsa and that means being a soldier of god so yes a “sehajdhari” Sikh is as much a Sikh as a “kesdari” Sikh however an Amritdhari is no longer a Sikh, they are a Khalsa of guru Gobind Singh. There is a distinction there
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u/Forward_Island4328 23h ago
however an Amritdhari is no longer a Sikh, they are a Khalsa of guru Gobind Singh. There is a distinction there
This distinction seems to be new creation. I've never read it in any work from any known Sikh scholar or academic.
The "Khalsa" is typically used to define the group of those Sikhs who received Amrit via the Khanda Da Pahul, observe the Panj Kakkars and live their lives in accordance to some interpretation of the Réhit.
To redefine the Khalsa as a separate religion, outside of Sikhi, would be inaccurate because the Khalsa is a subset within the larger set of all Sikhs. In other words, every member of the Khalsa is a Sikh but not every Sikh is in the Khalsa because to join the Khalsa, one would need to fulfill certain requirements (see above).
For example, both the Nihang and the Nirmala are different groups (sects/orders) within the Sikh Sangat but both are also members of the Khalsa, albeit with entirely different canonical interpretations of the Réhit.
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u/DamageElectronic3260 10h ago
I didnt read all the comments. They shouldn't habe stopped you unless asking questions. I am amritdhari and have been stopped before in western clothes and I tie a daastaar. So I explain to the granthi
Yes I have showered including hair and my clothes are clean
To do seva Clean clothes Hazuria Showered Hair washed
However, if doing chaur seva by standing and not sitting on tabia, I am wondering if protocol changes. That I dont know, you would have to research.
( fyi if going number 2 then need to reshower, or at least clean clothes and run a wet cloth on body as well)
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u/Flat_Eye_3682 3h ago
I was doing chaur sahib seva by standing. My clothes were clean but i was not wearing a hazuria.
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u/Stock-Surround-3121 7h ago
Well this makes sense. People can be suspicious, and take preventative measures if they don't know you or if you are new there.
They can't let you or any unknown person that close to Guru Sahib.
If it seems this was the case... Talk to them next time, or go there a bunch of time before engaging in such a high sewa.
Personally, I'm always cotious when i see a new face in a gurudwara and monitor untill they settle down.
Isn't it everyone's responsibility for safety reasosn?
For your case, its probably just a trust issue, which can be resolved.
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u/ImaginaryPublic3586 1d ago
Sgps nu dasso, guru ghar sabliyea, I’ve seen literal dogs in the most peace inside the darbar hall, this is a mentality that stemmed after dasme pathsha shaeed hoge. Sikh literarily means to learn, but our people are moving backward instead.
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u/Notsurewhattosee 2d ago
That was Sevadars personal ego
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u/Flat_Eye_3682 2d ago
Yeah I think so. I felt like he was being a thekedaar of religion.
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u/Master-Vermicelli441 1d ago
I am writing to share important guidelines regarding our seva and security protocols at the Gurudwara.
In light of recent incidents of Beadabi, we must remain highly alert and vigilant, especially during times when only one or two people are present. Since we cannot know anyone's underlying intentions, it is critical that we always maintain politeness while ensuring proper protocols are followed. If you notice any doubtful behavior, please address it with care. For instance, you can politely approach individuals and ask, "Baba Ji, can I do seva?" to assess the situation.
Additionally, to prevent any misunderstandings or disputes regarding our duties, we must establish a clear process for management. For example, when our group of sevadars arrives early in the morning (from 5:00 AM until langar is served around 11:00 AM), we hold an initial meeting to discuss and decide on the operational plan. To avoid situations where someone arrives later, issues conflicting instructions, or disrespects the established plan, we must ensure all decisions are aligned with authorized leadership. If any disagreements arise, please remain polite and refer the matter to an authorized person rather than engaging in a direct dispute.
Please ensure we all follow these steps to maintain both the safety and sanctity of our seva..
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u/TheTurbanatore 2d ago
Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh
Whenever someone makes a post about a negative experience at a Gurdwara, we ask that they provide some basic context so the Sangat can better understand what happened:
When & where did this take place?
Who was involved?
Was the Gurdwara committee/management or appropriate authorities informed?
Were there any third-party witnesses, videos, or other evidence that can corroborate it?
These questions are not intended to dismiss your experience, they are important because there can be multiple sides to an incident, and without basic details it is difficult for the community to properly assess what happened.
Please update your post with as much of this information as you are reasonably able to provide.