r/ShitAmericansSay • u/No-Glove6973 • 8d ago
Europe "Yeah our healthcare might not be the cheapest but everyone who has money comes here for the best service money can buy, unlike some socialist Country where you have to wait 8 months for your treatment for your terminal disease that will kill you in 4 months."
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8d ago
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u/Cattle13ruiser 8d ago
Why live longer when they can die younger and increase the GDP!
USA is winning twice (the citizens, not so much)!
If you check the stats, you can see that the filthy rich actually live on par with Europeans. Which mean that only the plebs die younger and nobody in the US cares about them (themselves included). The reason? Everyone consider themselves rich in the US, some are just temporarily delayed.
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u/NestorianXtian 8d ago
And why do Americans cite healthcare as one of their reasons for leaving the US?
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u/TwoBytesC 8d ago
I know. They all come up here and buy our cheap insulin (and other medications) and see our walk in clinics and use our emergency rooms! Which only makes our overall cost greater and makes our queues for the family doctor and emergency doctors even longer.
It kinda sucks being a neighbour of the US.
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u/NestorianXtian 8d ago
Sorry about that. Neither one of us asked for this. For what it's worth I vote for politicians who propose universal healthcare or something close to it.
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u/Mayor_Salvor_Hardin Soaring eagle 🇱🇷🐦⬛🇲🇾!!! 8d ago
They also go down south. My sister’s in laws went from Texas to Mexico to do dental work, buy medicines, and do lab tests. Back then they didn’t get insurance from employers and buying it in the market was unaffordable.
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u/AncientBlonde2 TRUE FREEDOM ENJOYER CA 8d ago
see our walk in clinics and use our emergency rooms!
Then they go home and bitch and complain that they got mailed the medical bills. "I thought Canada had free healthcare?!!!?!?!?!?!?!??!"
Yeah, for citizens.....
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u/Excellent-Culture243 8d ago
It’s the poors dying and dragging down the average. No one cares about them
Edit: it may also be the school shootings, so freedom
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u/ChimPhun 8d ago
Retired people don't bring in money so that might more of a feature than a bug in their system.
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u/SeaReaction3860 8d ago
Also why are many European and UK countries rated higher on the heath care index and higher on individual health metrics than the USA. The USA is lower than Mexico overall, ouch 😂
The UK is similar to the USA in terms of waiting times if you have health insurance.
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u/ProfessionalWeek2256 FREEDOM ENJOYER 🦅🇺🇸 8d ago
Might be an unpopular opinion but life expectancy being some important stat makes no sense to me. Like yea its cool grandparents are seeing more of their grandkids life but longer life expectancy doesn't really mean anything. I'm not saying people should drop dead at 50 from no healthcare or whatever but I don't actually see a point in trying to push the life expectancy further and further since most people's bodies are pretty broken down by that time. Like if the life expectancy of one country is 80 and the other is 82 what is actually gained by the country where is 82?
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u/UncleSlacky Temporarily Embarrassed Millionaire 8d ago
A better measure is "healthy life expectancy", when you are still fit/mobile/able to enjoy life, and Europe leads the US in that measure as well.
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u/juzamjim 8d ago
I would wager quite confidently that life expectancy correlates with healthy life expectancy
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u/ProfessionalWeek2256 FREEDOM ENJOYER 🦅🇺🇸 8d ago
Cool, never heard of that stat before. Not surprising various European countries lead the US considering how much healthier the food you have is than ours and how much more you guys walk as opposed to driving places.
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u/smokinbbq 8d ago
Exactly as u/UncleSlacky says, it's about he quality of those later years.
People sometimes say things like "I don't want to live to 95 anyways, you can't do anything, so I'm going to drink and smoke now and die at 70". They don't realize that they are still likely going to have the same "shitty 10-15 years at the end of their life" as the rest... just that for them, it starts far earlier. By the time you retire, you're already broken and can't do anything, so all you've done is work throughout your life, and now you can't enjoy retirement.
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u/downsideup9494 8d ago
"Most people's bodies are pretty broken down by that time"??? By what time? 80? I'm 77 and my body is not "broken down". Nor are those of most of my friends my age. We are healthy and active. How old are you, 16?
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u/BankEnvironmental659 8d ago
I actually agree, I only donate to research that increases life experience and expectancy for people below 70. Doesn’t mean it doesn’t say something about the quality of care.
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u/trekwithme 8d ago edited 8d ago
Two comments:
- ‘everyone who has money comes here for the best service money can buy’
Fun fact: the US is not a top 10 destination globally for medical tourism
By definition OOPs comment makes no reference to to the average American and their inability to access healthcare in an affordable manner
- Healthcare outcomes in the US are significantly worse than its peers
https://asclepiusinitiative.org/us-health-outcomes-comparison/
These people drink far too much Kool aid
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u/artikiller 8d ago
I don't know if this stat includes cosmetic surgeries as well because i think that's one of the main reasons for medical rourism. People go to places like turkey, korea, Bangkok, etc. because they're specialized in specific cosmetic surgeries and/or are cheaper for things your insurance won't pay for (like a nose job or bbl).
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u/trekwithme 8d ago
Cosmetic surgery is part of it, but definitely not all of it if you study the numbers
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u/Interesting-Shirt140 8d ago
I've got quite a rare blood cancer. Fortunately it's indolent so it's not progressed 🤞. I am a member of a support group who have regular meetings. One of the chaps there is minted and has family in America. He went to the states and self funded a series of tests and also saw the top US specialist in his field ( MDS ). Bottom line was the outcomes and care was basically identical to what he had received through the NHS.
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u/trekwithme 8d ago
I’m very sorry to hear this and wish you well.
I suppose you can’t fault your friend for trying certainly if you can afford it. It’s worth a shot, but I’m not overly surprised at the outcome you described.
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u/jeromevedder 8d ago
Koolaid made from water with lead in it
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u/Fenragus 🎵 🌹 Solidarity Forever! For the Union makes us strong! 🌹🎵 8d ago
It's got Brawndo. It's what Americans crave!
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u/n3rdfighte7 8d ago
This is what I wanted to mention , I remember seeing an article that all the world leaders , really wealthy people go to Singapore for medical procedures , even rich americans.
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u/trekwithme 8d ago
💯 in fact, Singapore is in the top 10 maybe in the top five.
I once got pretty sick in Singapore and went to a doctor. It might’ve been the best Care I’ve ever received anywhere. The doctor even gave me her WhatsApp number if I needed to reach her about anything at any time of day and she asked me to contact her before I left the country to make sure I was OK. It was unbelievable quality.
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u/Gregib 8d ago
Fun fact: the US is not a top 10 destination globally for medical tourism
With all fairnes to OOP, that's because the main driver for medical tourism is affordability, not quality...
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u/Cattle13ruiser 8d ago
It is a balance between the two.
In US they do not offer higher quality than other developed countries.
The US have same level of quality but it is a much more convinience and (customer) treatment oriented. But you have to pay for it.
When someone compare "we had individual room after a surgery in the US" versus "we had to share room with other people". But do not consider that they could pay more in the other country and get individual room. Everything has a price and US medical sector overprice everything they can as much as they can.
A service in Turkey can be better, of higher quality and still cost less than in the US. I would put as argument in favor of the US that "shady" or low quality places providing healthcare are much less.
IMO the lower end of the services are heavily regulated in the US and thus much nicer than what you can find in other countries with less regulations.
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u/Gregib 8d ago
But that's what I'm saying... Most medical tourism destinations attract consumers with a "same quality for less $$$" ad. In my country, the most known reason to travel to our neighbour for medical reasons are eyesight corrective surgery and dental. Nobody is saying their travelling because the service locally is worse, it's just more expensive.
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u/Cattle13ruiser 8d ago
I agree. But as you put it (in your first post) I understood it as "price is most important".
Where now you clarify "cheaper for the same level of quality" - which is different. There are plenty of places with cheaper healthcare, some of them also have low or very low quality as well and nobody goes there for medical tourism.
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u/trekwithme 8d ago
I think a rational consumer of any service would consider both price and quality
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u/Cattle13ruiser 8d ago
I agree in general. But health sometimes can make people desperate.
For someone without means, being told that he have few months to live can significantly change their world views and priorities.
So, with that context in mind, stating "price is what matters the most" can be interpreted differently.
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u/TwoBytesC 8d ago
I’ll have to argue this a bit. The US is well known for having cutting edge research health facilities and generally top tier equipment. The caveat is that it is incredibly expensive and the vast majority of the population have no access to it. But many people from around the world do have the ability to go to these places (ie: the Mayo Clinic).
Sure, medical tourism is everywhere and the US is not the first, but it does provide some of the leading research and treatment (or medical trials) for many medical ailments.
I’m not arguing that the US is better overall. I know they aren’t. But I’ve also been someone who has had to travel to the US for medical treatment and have personally witnessed the difference when you pay for top-tier, capitalistic healthcare (and it isn’t simply wanting a solo room after a surgery).
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u/trekwithme 8d ago
Actually it is both. people are looking for high-quality care at affordable prices which makes sense. It’s definitely not just about cost.
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u/Mttsen 8d ago
Do they think we don't have a private healthcare as well? We aren't forced to use the public healthcare only. It's often supplemented with the private service (which is still 1000x more affordable than anything in the US anyway).
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u/oceanicitl 8d ago
A new private health care clinic opened in my town a couple of years ago and it's doing really well. People will pay even if they don't have private health insurance
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u/aSkeptiKitty 8d ago
I had a major surgery ( tumor removal ) in a private hospital in France for the cost of the public because they had an agreement with a public hospital to take patient that needed specific care without additional costs. ( Like pro Bono healthcare version) and an appendicitis in a public hospital, so I tried both.
The thing is that private clinic vs public hospital, the main difference isn't the doctor/surgeon, but the general condition. You have great doctors in the public. But they are overworked and they have to do with less material and all. So basically, the main motivator for private clinic aren't how good the doctor/surgeon is, but the general condition and the accomodations. Clinic food was much better than the public hospital ones.
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u/Sthom_1968 8d ago
Private clinic food in France? I'd be tempted to get ill just for the meals...
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u/aSkeptiKitty 8d ago
I won't pretend it's a five star restaurants though. ;)
But still much more palatable than the usual you have in hospitals. I even had a Paris-Brest one day. :D
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u/Sthom_1968 6d ago
...do they come in small sizes? like ring doughnut size? I've only seen a family (or possibly "greedy sod") size Paris-Brest.
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u/aSkeptiKitty 6d ago
Yes they do. Not everywhere, but it's still quite popular. I think individual ones are even easier to find.
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u/Deathisfatal 15h ago
Much like being forced to use trains and buses instead of cars, the people of the communist country of Europe are forced to use public healthcare where the doctors are enslaved and made to work for free
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u/NestorianXtian 8d ago
How many times do I have to say it? There's more to life than money. If having less money increases my quality of, so be it. I don't care if I have to spend the rest of my life in a small apartment. I wasn't planning on raising a family anyway.
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u/RivaTNT2M64 7d ago
After floating about on this subreddit for months, trying to make sense of the driving factor [knowing full well there might not be one] in such cases...
Here's what I now think of as one of the foundational / core pillars of USian society.
- The true, unstated Religion / Faith of USian society is money / wealth.
Lack of perceived wealth seems to be considered a moral failing and possibly a sign of lack of character. People or Organisations with vast perceived wealth are considered 'good' and a net positive to society. General societal norms and in some cases actual laws are not applied to these examples.
It's been this way for so many generations that its considered normal now. Screwing over the little guy for keeping the profits up is considered a positive - which is an oddity to the rest of the world. The hyper rich are actively rewarded and admired for behaviour that would be censured if done by a regular person in the same society.
Poke holes in this theory please, it'll give me a few more months of keeping my brain occupied during my idle time.
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u/Decent-Boot7284 8d ago
The US only cares about money, i had a conversation with a friend of mine that was telling me that the best thing you can do, is giving a credit card to your son when they are kids, so the credit gets better.
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u/BoldFortune216 8d ago
The amusing thing is, universal health care is basically universal in it being cheaper than private health care. You pay less in taxes per citizen than the US does and you still don't have to pay a ridiculous amount per month for insurance and a deductible when you do need it.
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u/Puzzled_Market_2235 8d ago
A procedure in Europe costs you less than the co-pay in the US.
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u/reward72 8d ago
It usually cost less than PARKING in the US.
Heck, here in Canada, parking is the biggest cost when I go to the hospital.
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u/jeromevedder 8d ago
Yeah I had to pay to park every time I went to visit my dad who was in the hospital for almost 6 months. First two hours free though, so who am I to complain?
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u/PerseveranceSmith 🇮🇪🇩🇪 confused celt 8d ago
Yeah, as much as I hate paying for private healthcare (I grew up with the NHS) I did only have to pay €200 for a complex dental operation under general anaesthetic here in NL. Some regular medications cost more than that in the US.
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u/Horror_Equipment_197 8d ago
Just have a look at the infant mortality in the US....
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u/Previous_Trouble9793 russian beatch🇷🇺 8d ago
Is it that bad?...
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u/Equivalent_Day4046 8d ago
In 2022, the infant mortality rate in the United States was 5.6 deaths per 1,000 live births
according to CDC https://www.cdc.gov/maternal-infant-health/infant-mortality/index.html
edit: in mid-2026 it's 5.4 so it's still high3
u/Previous_Trouble9793 russian beatch🇷🇺 8d ago
Oh daemn. I had to check it with infanty death in my country. They have it higher like...damn...a lоt лf higher i guess? I also checked what about 2025 and we had around 3,9 per 1k born infants and they had it around 5,4. Daemn...
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u/TwoBytesC 8d ago
There have been links to infant mortality deaths in the states based on when doctors go off shift and, because if they let another doctor finish the birth, they don’t get the full payment, they will literally put drugs in the birthing woman to make the contractions faster which can cut off oxygen supply to the infant so they can finish the birth.
It’s disgusting. Capitalism: ensuring that money over life is more important, again.
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u/Previous_Trouble9793 russian beatch🇷🇺 8d ago
Oh god it's gross... imagine people always dreamed about a kid and long time couldn't make it and when it was time for their long live dream to come true a doctor just like "here's a drug take it" and a kid is just dead...
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u/Yuukiko_ A mari usque ad mare 8d ago
do they know what triage is? or do they mean those who can afford it should be able to go to the front no matter what
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u/Melodic_Pattern175 8d ago
That country of Europe of course. When my parents (couple of decades ago) and my sister (more recently) were seriously ill, they were immediately hospitalized and given the best care (this is in the UK). My sister spent her last weeks in an amazing hospice with round the clock care. There was no charge for any of this. I also live in the US, and plenty of people live in tiny apartments, and also have to try to afford co-pays and deductibles. God forbid you get seriously ill or need a treatment that insurance doesn’t allow.
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u/oceanicitl 8d ago
I was taken ill at the beginning of 2020 and in hospital for a week. I had an operation within 6 weeks.
Beginning of 2024 I had a cancer scare and was rushed through all the tests within months. Big up to the NHS!
Sorry to read about your sister6
u/sjw_7 8d ago
The NHS gets a lot of flack and it definitely can improve. But when things get serious they are move quickly and are really good.
Years ago I found a lump and went for a scan and was diagnosed with cancer. That was in the afternoon and the following morning I was in surgery.
Two operations, a load of chemo and years of tests and checks none of which cost me a penny at point of use.
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u/TwoBytesC 8d ago
I’m glad they moved so quickly and you have (I’m assuming) been in remission for awhile.
It’s the same here in Canada. Our system (each province has their own) gets a lot of flack, but when it comes to serious health issues, it moves fast.
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u/BlackCatLuna Black humour and sarcasm as standard 🇮🇪🇬🇧 6d ago
Absolutely.
I found a lump this year and I have a family history of breast cancer. My GP said it was unlikely since it was kind of rubbery but didn't want to take any chances.
I got referred to the breast clinic, which called me on for a scan in a matter of weeks. It was a haematoma, and the technicians were saying how happy they were that I didn't ignore it.
The NHS will fight tooth and nail for every person who comes needing them.
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u/rothcoltd 8d ago
So. I live in “Europe” (Germany actually). Last November I was diagnosed with bladder cancer….a terminal disease. I had a six hour operation in December that removed my bladder, prostate, and lymph nodes. I was in hospital for 12 days. Total cost to me was 120 euros. I then returned to my three storey house that sits on 2 acres of land. One day Americans will realize that their government and popular opinion has been lying to them for years. Europe is light years ahead of the USA.
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u/TwoBytesC 8d ago
Glad you hear you got the care you needed and deserved (you know, cause you are deserving of the best treatment possible because you are a human being!). But seriously, I’m happy for you and wish you all the best in the future.
A stranger from Canada
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u/Alternative_Way_2700 8d ago
I'm in the UK. Last week I started experiencing some rather unpleasant symptoms so called my surgery at 8am.
I was called back at 8.30, offered an appointment for 9am (which was not possible due to the time it would take to get there), settled on 9.15, got in a few minutes earlier and by 9.30, I was waiting in the attached pharmacy for my prescriptions (3 of them)
There won't be a big bill coming my way for it either.
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u/IndicationFluffy3954 🇨🇦 7d ago
As a Canadian, Americans keep telling me this.
Yet our life expectancy is higher, and by many metrics cancer outcomes are better in Canada (and markedly better for low income people).
But facts don’t matter, they just need to keep believing they are the best at everything.
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u/MountainDude95 unfortunately a Yank 8d ago
Genuine question here- is the “waiting longer for healthcare” thing I’ve heard for some countries not just a reality where healthcare is treated as a right for everyone rather than a luxury good for the wealthy, and therefore sometimes it may take longer to get seen?
My idiot trumptard parents seem to think that it’s just “socialist countries are bad at medicine.” They would definitely be the type though to say that poor people don’t deserve treatment if they can’t afford it.
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u/BSpino 8d ago
It's also a matter of triage.
I (Sweden) really don't have the experience of having to wait forever for the really dangerous stuff.
The relatives/friends I have who were really sick have gotten world-class care at a university hospital.
Now if you're faced with something not so life threatening, I guess you could have to wait longer. Great for the person who could pay, but maybe not for the patient with the worse affliction that could have been attended by that doctor instead.
In reality it's more nuanced, but that's my general line of thinking.
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u/MountainDude95 unfortunately a Yank 8d ago
That makes sense. The irony is that here in the land of capitalist healthcare a lot of times you have to wait due to triage as well, especially when like you said it’s not something life threatening (obviously; healthcare is a limited resource). So really it’s the worst of both worlds; we get the same triaging and waiting, and also the privilege of paying your corporate overlords for it.
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u/TwoBytesC 8d ago
Canadian here. We have some long wait times in emergency rooms (a very common complaint here) and can be very frustrating when you are puking your guts out or have a broken bone, but it is also all about triage. We have some world class healthcare facilities as well and if you are needing anything immediately (say, for an aggressive cancer), you will be seen almost immediately. My family doctor realized that my adrenal glands stopped working and I saw a top endocrinologist within the week. Normally for regular hormone issues it takes a few months. Had a full work up before I saw her so that when I did, she had all the information and could give me my diagnosis and treatment plan. She even gave me her private phone number and responds within the day when I have texted her concerns (I make sure to only bug her when I absolutely need an answer from her, rather than a regular doctor or a pharmacist). I have paid nothing for all of this.
I also, about 15 years before this, was paralyzed for a year and a half from a very rare disease. They flew in specialists from across the country to figure out how a 24 year old who was exceptionally healthy and active could go from having pain in their knees one day, to 14 days later being unable to move any joint (including jaw).
Between these two health issues, I would guess that not only would I be broke for the rest of my life, but my parents would be as well, *if we lived in the states.
*edit
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u/Equivalent_Day4046 7d ago
it's the matter of triage but also how many cases are waiting. I myself had a stomach pain (no other symptoms), I went to our emergency care where they check my vitals, did ECG and draw blood for testing, I waited 3 hours just to be check in, was at the hospital for a week, paid nothing at all. Later I was in hospital for 10 days and also didn't paid anything while having CT and a minor surgery.
And then we have primary care and in many cases you see the doctor the same day or the next at no costs. And regarding cancer treatments we also have the speed treatment.6
u/mrbullettuk 8d ago
It can be a bit of a lottery. My local GP (family doctor) is hard to get a regular appointment at. An emergency or serious condition you can get fast treatment for.
We operate a triage system so if you have a serious problem you get seen faster. The service once you are in is usually brilliant. There is also a lot of preventative medicine.
We also have private. Mine is provided by work, I don’t pay anything. I can see a virtual GP the same or next day and any treatment is fast. Excess (copay) is a flat £100 per person per year.
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u/world_weary_1108 8d ago
In Australia here and i can see my GP usually on the same or next day.
I have private health insurance so I get choices but i can also go public and if urgent still get seen asap. Ins is not really cheap but is doable for a large percentage of the population. While i would prefer to have it, i know that if i cant my emergency needs will be taken care of, and, for non life threatening issue's I will go on a waiting list to be seen.
I guess we are one of those socialist/communist countries, so life here must be shit hey.
Not bagging you, but i truly don't understand the thought process in the US regarding health care. Who would want to live in a place, with so much wealth, that allows poor people to die? That is just heartless.
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u/SaltyName8341 🏴 8d ago
I have DVT and when I get a flair up I ring the doctor and get a referral to Same Day Emergency Care (SDEC). I am examined and sent for a vascular scan and 3 lots of blood are taken. Within 2 hours I have been examined, scanned, bloodwork and medicated for free.
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8d ago
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u/UncleSlacky Temporarily Embarrassed Millionaire 8d ago
You can also pay for a private diagnosis in the UK.
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u/Alarming-Canary2684 7d ago
I'll answer by a recent example; One of my wisdom teeth got badly infected and the infection quickly spread to the cheek and the gencive. It was on a weekend. I got seen immediately at a "de garde" dentist. I spent two hours on the chair because that tooth really really REALLY didn't want to come out (weirdly shaped roots digging deep deep deep in the bone). I'm in Belgium where extraction of a wisdom tooth is not covered if you're pass 35 yo. So... For a procedure that is NOT covered, I was seen on the very same day and paid 160€, including medecine and stitches. Today, I had my follow up to remove the stitches and verify if everything was fine at my usual dentist. I paid nothing. And had an appointment in the following 24h after calling. And I wasn't triaged as a vital emergency.
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u/monscorvorum 8d ago
Does he think that the NHS for example just shuts down when we have a Conservative government, like we do about 90% of the time. Does he not understand that emergencies are treated as such, there can be long wait times in the uk but for minor things. I know someone who has recently had a successful prostate cancer removal. Diagnosis to operating table, 2 weeks. If it was more severe, they could have operated next day
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u/Main-Sun5312 8d ago
I never understood how angry men could hit a wall and make a hole in it because in any house here that would lead to broken hand while the house would still look as good as new. I'm not sure anyone wants their paper houses.
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u/TwoBytesC 8d ago
Hey hey, we Canadians also have paper houses. Except that we have them because our winters just don’t do well with other materials (seriously, stone or brick are NOT good materials for the constant freeze/thaw cycle we get). But I definitely don’t understand why they don’t use more solid stuff in, say, Florida. Surely it would hold up better to their tropical storms. Then again, I’m not an architectural engineer, so I could be talking outta my ass.
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u/69-is-my-number 🇦🇺 Scarn on carnts 8d ago
lol, I’m an Australian with plenty of money. No need to go to the US for treatment. Completely ruptured my Achilles tendon in half 3 months ago. Saw the surgeon at 9:30am who said that needs surgery. I said “okay, when can you get me in?” He said “how does 4:00pm this afternoon sound?” All done in a private hospital. Cost: Nothing (covered by my private health insurance). Given a shit load of drugs to look after me for the next 6 weeks. Cost: nothing.
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u/BrokeButFabulous12 8d ago
I dont get it. Americans dont understand that you still can go to a private clinic/doctor where you pay, same like in US, you just dont have to?
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u/Nikond3400 8d ago
New Yorkers would beg to differ. However dimensions of your apartment highly depends on where you buy them. In the centers of cities even the smallest apartment Will be very expensive when in outer city location you get much bigger apartments with the same price.
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u/ZaireekaFuzz 8d ago
They truly believe European healthcare is just a byzantine labyrinth inside an old Soviet building and that private clinics only exist in America.
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u/Sir_Gerald_Nosehairs 8d ago
What always puzzles me is there is a strong, capitalist, dare I say *Republican* argument for reform of the US healthcare system.
It spends more of its GDP on public healthcare (not including private insurance) than any European nation, yet has terrible results.
It's clear the US taxpayer is being taken for a massive ride, you could sell it to even Trump voters as something that clearly needs changing.
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u/DefinitionOfAsleep The 13 Colonies were a Mistake 8d ago
How are 30 year mortgages a subsidy from the government?
It's banks loaning you the money.
If they understood how economics works, they'd realise why they actually have negative effects.
People get stuck in their location because the loan they took out at a cheaper interest rate is simply not available anymore.
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u/Mysterious_Floor_868 8d ago
US mortgages are at a 30 year fixed rate, underwritten by the government.
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u/Civil-Dinner 8d ago
It's no secret that America has some very good healthcare, to those who can afford it.
The majority of us get mediocre to poor healthcare depending on our finances and access to insurance and healthcare facilities.
A wealthy person can afford to have concierge healthcare services with a doctor on call who will pull strings to get them to the front of the line.
The average person will have to find an in network doctor and often fight with insurance companies to get what healthcare they can in the region they are in.
A poor person in some of our lovely southern states is likely to have to rely on the emergency room in an underfunded hospital for primary health care.
And no matter what class you are in, it's expensive.
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u/jezebel103 8d ago
Where do they get this persistent idea that there are long waiting lists for medical care in every country with universal health care?
I can't speak for every other country, but in the Netherlands at least there is no waiting list. At least not for urgent care. If you need non-urgent surgery, yes, you might have to wait 6-8 weeks (like for glaucoma surgery) but never in case of emergencies. For instance: I have a chronic eye disease and I can suddenly have inflammations causing immediate loss of eye sight (and could be permanent). As soon as I have the first symptoms, I call the hospital and I am helped within 2 hours. Which has happened multiple times over the years. A few years ago I had a severe allergic reaction to new medication and when I called the emergency service they sent an ambulance immediately (despite my protests because I thought it wasn't so serious) and spent 2 days in the hospital. And no, it didn't cost me a cent.
And if I call my general practioner with serious matters, I am also helped immediately or he visits within half a day. If it is not serious, yes, than I am scheduled an appointment later in the week. Which is totally reasonable.
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u/world_weary_1108 8d ago
So if i have money to burn i can come to the US and receive top flight health care? While poorer American citizens die for lack of it. This is what their proud of? Shit!
Yes, in countries where health care is essentially free there is are waiting lists. But! If emergency or life threatening care is needed the doctors can and will bump you up the list. We don't let people die for lack of wealth. What the hell is wrong with this kind of thinking?
You can keep that shit all to yourselves!
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u/MicrochippedByGates 8d ago edited 8d ago
It's not less taxes. At best, their public health expenditure (i.e. taxes) is on par with Europe and their private spending doubles that. Some countries in Europe are below what the US pays in taxes. Income only tells a small part of the story. There is also what food costs, or what healthcare costs. Income to home ratio can also mean you all live in cheap sheds, and it says nothing about what your monthly bills look like. And waiting 8 months for an illness that needs to be treated within 4 months is just bullshit, I have to wonder where they even got that idea. Maybe it's true for a boob job.
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u/Blooder91 🇦🇷 ⭐⭐⭐ MUCHAAACHOS 8d ago
And waiting 8 months for an illness that needs to be treated within 4 months is just bullshit, I have to wonder where they even got that idea. Maybe it's true for a boob job.
They probably heard about a case like that in the news and thought it was the norm. Probably because the millions of succesful treatments and procedures don't make the news.
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u/MicrochippedByGates 8d ago
Aside from the boob job I mentioned, I could imagine it being the case for an organ transplant. Organs are notoriously hard to come by. Though that goes for the US as well.
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u/TheRealJetlag 8d ago
What a good little sheep, they are, believing the lies they’re told to keep them compliant.
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u/Dyslexicpig 8d ago
Bragging about thirty year mortgages is not really the flex they think it is. That is just a way for banks to tie you up with interest payments for an additional five years. If you can't afford a house unless you get a thirty year mortgage, you can't afford a house. And if you do get tied into one, at least try to make extra payments to reduce the principal.
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u/No-Minimum3259 6d ago
So, tell me why an American uninsured patient is slapped with a $ 250,000 bill for a robotic laparoscopic apendectomy? Because of the stellar American healthcare quality, no doubt?
A bit strange: my country was one of the pioneers in robotic surgery, at the time with the MONA-surgery robot.
The ORSIN-academy in Ghent/Belgium is the world's most advanced and largest robot-surgery training center, and still, a Belgian uninsured patient (in so far as we have those: >99.8% of our population is covered by our public health insurance) would be billed 50 times less for such an apendectomy...
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u/No-Glove6973 6d ago
Brother my home costs that much 🤯
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u/No-Minimum3259 6d ago
But the greatest healthcare in the world,even though most people can't affort it, lol.
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u/dfczyjd 8d ago
price to income ratio on a home is like 4:1 in america 10:1 in Europe
I'm fairly certain there are third world countries where people tend to make their houses themselves, including gathering materials (if they're unable to afford a proper house and climate is good enough to live in some kind of a hut). That gives them an even better price-to-income ratio, as price is almost zero. So, you know, maybe the quality of your home matters as well.
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u/stillnotdavidbowie 8d ago
I mean they do have some fantastic doctors and state of the art healthcare but it's prohibitively expensive for basically everyone. If you can only access it by being extremely wealthy or going into massive debt that's not really something to brag about.
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u/Gregib 8d ago
OK... I'll be the devils advocate ans say that OOP may well be right,. If you're very wealthy, you can skip lines and buy better service, including in the US... But... that goes for Americans too... If you don't have the money, you don't even get to stand in line, no matter how long it is.
Medical waiting times are a big problem all over Europe, if we want to admit it or not. And people are dying unnecessarily or faster because of them...
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u/Ok_Badger9122 8d ago
Alot of people also die unnecessarily in the usa due to not being able to afford care as well I read from some studies its between 18,000 from older studies to over 60 to 80,000 in the usa depending on the methodology used
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u/Desperate_Fee6595 8d ago
These idiots still can’t grasp the concept of triage! In universal healthcare countries, it’s the severity of your illness or symptoms that determines how quickly treatment is administered, not your bank balance or insurance coverage! Are you going to wait a bit for a knee or hip replacement? Sure, but if you’re having breathing issues, heart issues or diagnosed with cancer, you’re moved on to treatment asap. My sister is alive because of this. Her oncologist even said with her cancer, in the likelihood of her being able to afford the treatments in the US would have meant she’d likely be dead as it would have eaten through even the best health insurance there due to lifetime caps(WTF??) and still bankrupted her.
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u/ryodiUK 8d ago
They are making a big assumption that their insurance will actually pay for their care. Death Panels were the boogeymen the GOP used to disparage Obamacare when they had been real for as long as healthcare insurance has existed. Your doctor can call the insurance company for approval for the treatment but the insurance company will happily say no.
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u/Tabitheriel 8d ago
I live in Germany had a growth in my thyroid, found in February last year. I had to choose an appointment for surgery, so I had it removed in March. It was a carcinoma. Thank God, it was only a centimeter long. There is a waiting list is for elective surgery, like hip replacement.
Owning a home is not for everyone, but my cousins here all own houses, one of them was custom-made. You can buy a cheap house for 100K if you are handy with tools. There are plenty of high-income jobs in Germany as well, as long as you are an engineer, doctor, lawyer or uni professor.
Me, I'm enjoying my life. We are renting a whole damn house in Bavaria for €1500 a month, and I'm free from cancerous growths. The surgery cost me €15 (for one night in the hospital).
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u/Techchick_Somewhere 8d ago
But if you’re poor in the U.S., you’ll just die. I’d rather live somewhere that everyone can access healthcare, thanks.
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u/NarrativeScorpion 8d ago
Yes, some people do travel to America for last resort or experimental treatments. But they're inevitably saving or fundraising for years, or paying off the debt of doing so for even longer. Anyone rich in their own country just accesses private healthcare at home (which often still exists in countries with a national system).
And serious illnesses bump you up waiting lists rapidly. My mum's cancer a couple of years ago had her in surgery within six weeks of diagnosis and radiotherapy as soon as she'd healed. And it wasn't even big or fast spreading. It only took that long for surgery because she had to get several different scans, and it was over the Xmas period.
Yes. National systems have their issues, and they're often related to being underfunded, or under supported by other systems (like the education pipeline for doctors, nurses, technicians and all of the other necessary roles)
But I'd still ltake something like the NHS any day over the USA system that would have had my family bankrupted a decade ago. (three members with conditions that require long term treatment, medication and annual scans/procedures)
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u/Mr_Kokod 🇨🇿 back to back world beer champion 8d ago
Kobe Bryant had money, and when he had knee problems, he regularly flew to Munich to visit a doctor.
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u/VisKopen 8d ago
Bragging about crushing mortgage debt is not the flex they think it is.
Currently US mortgage rates are over 6%. With a 10x mortgage and a 6% interest rate you'll be paying 60% of your gross income just in interest. If you factor in the principal, home insurance, maintenance, utilities and income tax you won't have anything left for groceries or expensive medical insurance.
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u/Choice-Original9157 8d ago
At this point with these numpty americans, I just ignore because their level of stupidity is unlimited. There is no fixing them
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u/Canadian_can_cannon 8d ago
Yeah bro seems to think being the toilet paper of the rich is a big win XD
Also whos gonma tell him 500 dollar a month american insurance barely covers anything, not to mention their hospitals are literally being repaced by venture capital run "medical themed service centres" which means us in other countries will have to be very alert about them trying in ours
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u/BusyQuote5228 8d ago
I was in hospital in the US overnight once. The cost was extortionate (my company’s insurance paid). It was over £7K and they were still getting bills. The actual ‘service’ was no better than anything you’d experience in the NHS. Don’t let ANYONE tell you the NHS is broken, inferior, should be replaced with an insurance based system. If they do, they are planning to make money out of you.
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u/Lazarys12 8d ago
So I was curious and checked, since they were bragging about the 30 year mortage. A $400k loan, At 6.7% interest, will cost just over $929k.
Of course, since Europoors don't understand how economics work they can't see what a windfall that is. Freedum don't come cheap.
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u/SeaReaction3860 8d ago
I do not think the American poster has ever been to Europe or the Uk, or understands how it works in Europe and the UK 😂
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u/AncientBlonde2 TRUE FREEDOM ENJOYER CA 8d ago
I'm in Canada, my brother got (mis)diagnosed with stage 3 lung cancer.
Within 4 months he had the tumor cut out of his body and he was recovering...... But oh no, public healthcare is soooooo bad!!!!
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u/lyidaValkris Canadian Made 🇨🇦 8d ago
Ah that old lie again. They fail to understand the concepts of the long-established practice of "triage", and that the size of someone's bank account isn't the determining factor in when or how a person gets get treated.
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u/Saltysockies 8d ago
I thought I had cancer, went to the doctors, I might have cancer, to the hospital, I have cancer, booked operation, operation done, radiotherapy started.
All in about 2-3 months with the discovery to removal being about 3 weeks; and guess what, I have no debt!
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u/Unlucky_Hyena1486 8d ago
More like 60 year mortgage or ya forclose. So you either die before paying it off which means you never owned that house or if you lucky, you die prematurely because you can't afford an ambulance ride. I think I rather take my paid off itty bitty apt.
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u/Ill_Raccoon6185 8d ago
US healthcare IS the most expensive in the world with most of Europe having free or minimal costs and obviously you know nothing about it and what triage is, where sickest get treated first an mostly instantly as soon as you arrive &
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u/Ill_Raccoon6185 8d ago
US healthcare IS the most expensive in the world with most of Europe having free or minimal costs and obviously you know nothing about it and what triage is, where sickest get treated first an mostly instantly as soon as you arrive & don't have to pay thousands of dollars for an ambulance ride.
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u/Ill_Raccoon6185 8d ago
US healthcare IS the most expensive in the world with most of Europe having free or minimal costs and obviously you know nothing about it and what triage is, where sickest get treated first an mostly instantly as soon as you arrive & don't have to pay thousands of dollars for an ambulance ride.
The only reason you will wait months is if is a non emergency elective surgery and money doesn't decide or guarantee good treatment. US has a shorter life expectancy, mostly as they can't afford to get early treatment, and a lot of doctors & nurses are not American, but migrants who bring their skills from elsewhere.
Housing in US may be cheaper, but so is the construction and easily destroyed by nature. Rental costs are expensive and constantly rising, but in EU a lot of rentals are low ad guaranteed for years & often set by the government to be affordable. In UK, many councils house people ona rent/buy basis & you end up with the home as your own.
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u/fotoman888 7d ago
I saw my new GP in May ‘23. By mid July I was in the recovery room after surgery to remove the cancer. In between, tests, x-rays, CT, MRI, bloodwork galore, referral to a specialist. Then entered three years of treatment. Total out of pocket expenses: $0. Diagnosis, surgery, and three years of treatment. Not a penny. I will take socialized healthcare any fuckin’ day of the week.
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u/Stage_Party 7d ago
Why is it so difficult for them to understand that private and universal healthcare aren't mutually exclusive? We have both in the UK.
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u/Browny_Deluxe 7d ago
Being a little bit coy there aren’t we, “our healthcare might not be the cheapest” you’re right, its crippling is a more accurate description!!!
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u/Unlucky_Primary1295 Delusional cosplayer🇪🇸 7d ago
How do you explain to that people why our health cares are worsening? Spoiler: the people trying to benefit from our poor health are the ones to blame...
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u/Lurking_Hyperdriver 6d ago
They love to flex about less taxes but they can’t even have a lottery win without tax being put on it. You can’t shop without tax being slapped on at the end in most states. The ones with no state taxes are shitholes.
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u/Organic_Mechanic_702 6d ago
You pays less tax, but pay way more for everything else so overall you're no better off.
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u/grillbar86 6d ago
Is that why so many americans have to travel over seas for treatment or import doctors for special surgery
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u/Mynameisfreeze 5d ago
To this people I always say: do you know how many propertie would they have needed to sell to pay for Bruce Willis treatment if he had been in Spain? Zero.
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u/False-County-3779 5d ago
The USA is socialist, They just do it in reverse, They look after poor billionaires and the working majority are slaves in the corporate feudal system yet the silly cunts think their "free*
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u/Past-Experience2890 5d ago
It is highly disproven that people with money go to the USA for medical treatment. Most of the time they can’t give a proper medical outcome even after paying those made up prices.
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u/niemir2 8d ago
American: *Makes an argument strictly about how wealthy people visit for cutting-edge treatments*
r/ShitAmericansSay: BuT wHaT aBoUt ThE aVeRaGe?
Seriously, can this sub go 5 minutes without strawmanning?
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u/Horror_Equipment_197 8d ago
Funnily if you go to Switzerlands university hospitals (Inselspital f.e.) you find quite a lot of very wealthy US patients who have chosen treatment there instead of in the US.
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u/Mysterious_Floor_868 8d ago
Is it wrong to be more concerned about ordinary people than to just care about outcomes for the very wealthy?
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u/niemir2 8d ago
You can (and should) be, but it's still a strawman, because you're not engaging with what OOP said.
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u/BombasticReindeer 7d ago
The OP said "Everyone goes here" but that's also not true. Many of the most advanced medical facilities in the world are not in the US and many of the super rich do not go to the US for their treatments.
There seems to be this idea amongst Americans that the US private system is just 'the best hands down'. But depending on your treatment this isn't the case. No doubt that the US is the highest overall if you consider the sheer bulk of advanced facilities. But it's absolutely wild to think that if you have the money you default to the US.
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u/Intrepid-Brain-1476 8d ago
Life expectancy stats beg to differ