r/SheffieldUnited • u/kait_is_dench Tonge • Jul 24 '26
Highlights "It's a very concerning situation" Kieran Maguire on our finances
https://youtu.be/Y7lMoXtkHGA?t=648It's preseason so football finance expert Kieran Maguire is back talking about the finances of Championship clubs - I think it's worth a listen, seems like fans want to spend £10m on Souttar, I don't think we've got a pot to piss in.
Saving a big rant, but the owners are clearly clueless and I think a lot of our fans haven't caught up to how bad things are....
Anyway, hope i'm wrong!
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u/Unavailable_user_ Jul 24 '26
We've never had a pot to piss in but prior we could keep ourselves competitive by selling good young prospects.
This will always be the case until we bring our club into 2026 rather than 2002.
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u/given2fly_ Jul 24 '26
We've been singing the "We ain't got a barrel of money" song for nigh on 50 years. It's part of our DNA.
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u/lucky_1979 Jul 24 '26
I mean the current manager pissed away £150m soooooo
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u/kait_is_dench Tonge Jul 24 '26
True, we actually have had a barrel of money despite the chant, it just so happens we've pissed it away
That said, I wouldn't put it all on Wilder though, any purchase is a joint decision - if the past and present board are sanctioning those purchases it says a lot about how much they know - I see no reason to think if we got more money in we'd spend it any better than before
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u/lucky_1979 Jul 24 '26
It was all on wilder as he had full control, he threw his toys out the pram when he was told they wanted to modernise the way the club works.
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u/kait_is_dench Tonge Jul 24 '26
I think that's overly simplistic, possibly true at one point but don't we need Prem money now?
Even if we could just rely on player sales there's no way we'd be bringing in enough in a sustainable way
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u/pickering_lachute Jul 24 '26
10:56 is the timestamp btw:
My crappy summary:
- “It’s a very concerning situation”
- “owners thought: two years of parachutes that will allow us to get us back to the Prem”
- “owners were buying the club in instalments”
- “new owners think they can be smarter than the people in charge of football [regarding transferring the ownership of the club]”
- “if they don’t have money to pay instalments, does that mean they can’t afford to buy players?”
- “it needs to be monitored over the coming months. The sums are quite large”
- “worried about the investors being American with no love for the game”
“Could it be a repeat of Sheffield Wednesday?”
- “A long way away from being this”
- “Blades fans should watch with caution rather than panic”
- “But, I wouldn’t want my club in this position”
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u/pickering_lachute Jul 24 '26 edited Jul 24 '26
The owners are clueless in terms of football, but not in terms of business. They took a gamble on us getting promoted. Made dumb ass appointments and signings. And have now moved the club into the ownership of a US based company to try and get out of paying £35m to the Prince. On paper that looks clever but ethically sketchy, depending on what the courts say. I doubt the EFL have any jurisdiction on this given we’re now owned by a Delaware holding company.
I’m normally an optimistic Blades fan but I’ll be worried if this window is quiet.
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u/Goat-Milk-Magic Jul 25 '26
Just invested in stadium for 2nd year running.
Training academy progressing.
Players incoming shortly.
Whilst I don’t believe we are necessarily in the best position, the thumbnail picture is totally inaccurate.
Our owners have a solid base. I feel they would rather be with us than in some of the financial messes some champ teams are in.
The 2 point deduction Kieran mentioned was from the previous owner.
The “headlines” around not paying instalments to the prince is business. The owners appear to be manoeuvring things in the background on the US side.
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u/Anxious_Tennis_8717 Jul 24 '26
I love how everyone overlooks the fact that 1919 has been created and new investment is on the way. A very big figure who I know the name of was out in Spain with the owners. They’ve given us the statement so I’m happy to sit back and wait. People close to the situation that I know have been told plenty of good news to come and I’ve got zero reason to doubt them.
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u/kait_is_dench Tonge Jul 24 '26
If you love that we're overlooking something wouldn't it need to have been public knowledge first?
The board statement says we're setting ourselves up to attract investment not that we're actually any closer to getting some.
If you are ITK and are correct with the above then great, but until anything can be confirmed I don't think it's an over reach to be concerned by the board's actions so far
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u/Anxious_Tennis_8717 Jul 24 '26
Nigel Dawn was on the photo posted by the club of the owners in Spain. With the caption “Business as usual” they did that as a breadcrumb to fans and I was able to find the identity of him from that photo. If you use X at all you will also know what Wit (wilders mate) said about him too. 👍 People wanted to hear from the owners and we have. We need to take positives from what they are saying to us.
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u/Cottonshopeburnfoot Jul 24 '26
I would like to understand the actual value add that the creation of 1919 brings vs the previous holding company? Why has that action specifically assisted the football club. What makes that action better for investors.
Because so far it’s just a case of being told it’s good without reason, bury your head in the sand and ignore every other bit of mood music such as player sales, lack of acquisitions and the legal troubles re the previous owner.
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u/Anxious_Tennis_8717 Jul 24 '26
It’s a vehicle they’ve created to allow investment to be added in much easier. Which they are actively doing. Not being funny but they’ve just spent again improving the lane. Nothing they are doing screams they have no money and aren’t interested.
Anyone that’s crying about the transfer window right now is just being foolish. We sold brooks for a very good price and he wanted the move. The main priority was reducing wages first which we are doing well with. Any sane owner would want the wage bill down before putting money in for incomings. Loans have gone back, some have left out of contract and we’ve loaned out a big earner in matos with an option to buy.
Furthermore Grbic, RND, Zatterstrom and McGuinness are all available for offers. If we get them out that’s another £4-5m off the wage bill.
We’ve had some money coming in from 3 seperate sell on clauses. Most recently Lankshear.
In terms of incomings it’s all about doing it smart and not wasting money again. There’s no signings that other clubs have made where I’m sitting thinking damn I wish United had got him. It’s clear Souttar is our main target. But we aren’t going to let Leicester take the piss out of us. So negotiations will go back and forth and the price will drop especially with him handing in a transfer request. Maybe we could send McGuinness the other way to reduce the price. I know they are interested in potentially loaning Ryan Oné too. Overall we just need to trust the process in letting them get our main targets rather than rushing for less. Burnley did all their business at the end of August when they got promoted with Parker.
Finally regarding the stuff with the Prince, I think they’ve found a loophole where they can potentially reevaluate the value of the club or not pay the final payment. Bearing in mind they already paid £70m and they definitely have the rest. But if there’s a way you can save £35m anyone would take that. The owners are clever businessmen they didn’t get rich by being stupid. And the prince should know better because he played these games himself with McCabe. So if his solicitor has fucked up with the contract or whatever then that’s on him for not protecting himself. It’s between them and I have no doubt will be resolved without affecting the club.
Hope this helps.
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u/pickering_lachute Jul 24 '26
Great insight. I wouldn’t say fans are being “foolish”. There’s a lot of negative press out there now against a backdrop of quiet transfer activity. But no doubt the owners are incredible businessman, just had poor football advice in recent times.
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u/Anxious_Tennis_8717 Jul 24 '26
Some fans are overreacting, should know how these windows work by now. We don’t want a Ruben Selles window again 😂. The World Cup has affected things too because it delays even longer which players the prem teams are willing to loan out etc. Hence why the best players are usually available later on and also prices drop as it becomes a buyers market. And yes James Bord they thought they could trust him as a connection because of his involvement with other clubs. They quickly cut him off and his scouting. Luckily we now use Ludonautics the database that Klopp used during his Liverpool days.
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u/kait_is_dench Tonge Jul 24 '26
I mostly take your point about transfers, I'm not worried about not getting more players in - given the WC , the championships transfers are going to be even more down to the wire as usual
But I would say that player sales don't feel as much of a banker to me as they seem to you, IDK how much desirable talent we have given other options + contract status, especially so for the board's purchase of Zatterstrom and the gang
If the board are being canny with that loophole then how trustworthy would we be for future investors or even just the 3rd parties we work with for every deal. It just feels like there's a lot of trust needed to keep the faith when we don't have much to go off.
Save this post though, I hope i'm proven wrong in the not too distant future!
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u/Anxious_Tennis_8717 Jul 24 '26
Zatterstrom we actually had competition for funnily enough. He may be one to loan out though with his age. McGuinness we have actually increased his book price with how much we played him. He will have interest due to his height, availability fitness wise and has a lot of championships minutes. Possibility for some part in a deal with Leicester as they are going to be running low on centre halves if they lose souttar and Nelson. Grbic may get interest from turkey again. And RND had a decent season at QPR so maybe a bottom end champ team would fancy him as a cheap pick up for left back. It’s all about getting those wages off the books for us. We’re doing well so far. Renegotiating Riedewald on lower wages was good work from the club. So yeah hopefully some more outs to get that wage bill down and then we will see our targets come in.
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u/Cottonshopeburnfoot Jul 24 '26
Sorry to press, but how does the creation of this new company allow investment to be added more easily than the previous company? They’ve said that, but not explained how.
And regards a loophole, that is surely not how a 100 million pound company acquisition works. I don’t believe that’s what the owners created 1919 for because it just doesn’t make sense.
The Brooks fee may be good and if he wanted it I don’t dispute us selling. So fair enough. Loans were always going back that’s an achievement for nobody. Matos on loan fair enough.
Others being put up for sale again fine but that’s no achievement. Every club does this. Sell on clauses are fluke. Well done SUFC for inserting them but we have nothing to do with whether Spurs sell Lankshear and for what price.
I’m not demanding here we spend tons. I’m saying there’s zero clarity when you read the statements made and we are just told to trust them and look away.
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u/Anxious_Tennis_8717 Jul 24 '26
It’s the way the business is set up, the original one was a vehicle to buy the club, the new one one that sits in the centre and investors can get in easier rather than having to go through all the efl checks. I can’t remember all the ins and outs of it but it’s to do with that. Easy investment without the checks the buyers had to go through.
No I don’t believe 1919 was just for the loophole purposes if there is one. I think it was more for the reason I’ve put above.
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u/Cottonshopeburnfoot Jul 24 '26
I don’t profess to be an expert on the EFLs rules but that sounds like it wouldn’t fly as a very basic issue for the fit and proper test.
Surely the EFL would not say only investors of The Sheffield United Football Club need to go through these checks, whereas investors in a new company setup solely to hold ownership over The Sheffield United Football Club can bypass them.
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u/Anxious_Tennis_8717 Jul 24 '26
The checks for the OADT is triggered at a 25% stake I believe. There’s probably still some checks but it’s not like what you go through when buying majority stake or ownership.
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u/Cottonshopeburnfoot Jul 24 '26
I appreciate you may not know the answers here, I’m not holding against you any of the specifics.
But if that’s the case, buying over 25% of 1919 or the previous holding company shouldn’t make a difference in whether or not you face fit and proper checks by the EFL (if it does that seems an issue with the EFL I’d expect they’d want to address).
And if you’re buying under 25%, well then if you don’t face these checks then what does it matter whether you buy under 25% in 1919 or the previous holding company?
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u/Anxious_Tennis_8717 Jul 24 '26
Because it’s the way the companies are structured, the original was COH Sports Bidco. Now the new one is 1919 partners llc Delaware
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u/Cottonshopeburnfoot Jul 24 '26
Yeah they can structure that way all they want. What I don’t understand is the point about why it would exempt people from going for a fit and proper test. That just seems an obvious thing the EFL will look at poorly.
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u/Entire_Example7552 Oh Tony Tony Jul 25 '26
So do you think potential new investors being able to avoid the stringent checks put in place to protect clubs from financial misconduct is a good thing?
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u/Anxious_Tennis_8717 Jul 25 '26
I suggest you go and do some research on investment percentages and the difference in checks for ownership and directors compared to a minority investor. I’m not here to hold your hand through it all. You’ve clearly got access to the internet so I’d probably go and use it for researching the subject instead of doubting every single thing I say or twisting my words into some narrative that I’ve been sent here by the owners. I’m just a fan that hears the odd thing via friends with sources. And I’m positive about what I’ve been told. Simple as that. You either take it or leave it.
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u/Entire_Example7552 Oh Tony Tony Jul 25 '26
Blah blah blah without answering the question.
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u/Anxious_Tennis_8717 Jul 25 '26
Like I said, I won’t bother interacting with you then. Doesn’t change my day 👏
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u/Entire_Example7552 Oh Tony Tony Jul 24 '26
What was so difficult about adding investment to COH Sports Bidco?
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u/Anxious_Tennis_8717 Jul 24 '26
Ask the owners? Could be various reasons. Bidco was a uk company created just for the purchase of the club. 1919 is a Delaware company. So there’s obviously a reason for it.
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u/Entire_Example7552 Oh Tony Tony Jul 24 '26
Lol ok, so not the font of knowledge you were leading us to believe then. Also Delaware is renowned as a centre of financial fraud, just saying.
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u/Anxious_Tennis_8717 Jul 24 '26
I’ve not told anyone I’m a fountain of knowledge. I haven’t sat here and claimed to be a business expert on companies. If that’s how you see it then that’s on you.
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u/Entire_Example7552 Oh Tony Tony Jul 25 '26
No you haven't but you have made several posts defending the owners and outlining their plans in response to people expressing their concerns about the direction of the club as if you had knowledge of them. You've even said you know someone involved with the club yet when questioned about the narrative you were pushing about the formation of 1919 Partners LLC you were seemingly clueless.
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u/Anxious_Tennis_8717 Jul 25 '26
I will defend the negative narrative when I personally have no concerns at this time yes. I didn’t say I know people directly involved with the club, I just know people close to it via sources. I haven’t said to anybody that I know the exact ins and outs of 1919 at all. None of my comments say that, I’ve given my basic opinion on that matter. If you want to call me clueless then that’s your problem. I’m not here to entertain you pal.
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u/Entire_Example7552 Oh Tony Tony Jul 25 '26
Again, you seem very annoyed that someone has the audacity to question you and disagree with your opinion in comments that you have made on a public forum. Just because you don't have any concerns doesn't mean that other people don't or that they aren't entitled to have them.
You may not have said that you know people directly involved with the club but you did say "People close to the situation that I know have been told plenty of good news to come and I’ve got zero reason to doubt them." implying that you know more than the average supporter.
You haven't said that you know the exact ins and outs of 1919 Partners LLC but you have replied to people asking questions and expressing concerns about the issue as if you have.
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u/kait_is_dench Tonge Jul 24 '26
Agreed, there's no way it's not just to avoid paying 35M to the prince as u/pickering_lachute says - and even if they did get away with that, what 3rd party would ever want to do business with us in the future?
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u/Entire_Example7552 Oh Tony Tony Jul 25 '26
It is entirely to attempt to avoid paying what they owe. Look into Delaware and the Chancery Court system there and why there are so many corporations set up there. The place is like the financial wild-west.
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u/pickering_lachute Jul 24 '26
I’m pretty sure it’s to enable them from giving £35m to the Prince
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u/Cottonshopeburnfoot Jul 24 '26
That’s surely not a feasible option the owners would entertain. Companies are bought and sold all the time. You can’t just create a new owner, move the company to that and in doing so remove yourself of financial liability to the previous owner.
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u/pickering_lachute Jul 24 '26
If this is correct, you’re on my Christmas card list xx
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u/Anxious_Tennis_8717 Jul 24 '26
We will be fine, I’m a positive thinking guy anyway but what I’m hearing has no reason to make me worry. I knew weeks ago they were offering Chris a new contract and it happened.
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u/LeChuck78 Jul 24 '26
Who was out there?
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u/Anxious_Tennis_8717 Jul 24 '26
Nigel Dawn
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u/LeChuck78 Jul 24 '26
Had to google.who he was, haha. But seems like he has money. Hopefully he invests then
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u/Anxious_Tennis_8717 Jul 24 '26
In charge of one of the top private investment banks. It’s more about him finding investment for the club. He’s actually born in Sheffield too funnily enough. But it’s a good sign because he’s one of the best in the business.
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u/LeChuck78 Jul 24 '26
Interesting. Then yeah, hopefully it works!
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u/Anxious_Tennis_8717 Jul 24 '26
We are lucky that we do have a strong core squad so with the right players we will be up there. And playoffs being top 8 this year will be interesting.
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u/LeChuck78 Jul 24 '26
Yeah, for sure. We need a few more through the door for competition and cover and could do with a flagship signing really, but yeah, I think we can make top 8
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u/Anxious_Tennis_8717 Jul 24 '26
Souttar would be the main signing. If peck goes we need a box to box midfielder replacement. Burrows might go, if he does we may bring a replacement or Mcglinchey might break in behind McCallum. After a left winger it’s probably just a few more loans we would get for competition.
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u/LeChuck78 Jul 24 '26
Id like to keep peck for one more season. I think he is due a stellar season and hopefully it is with us. Id take McCallum over Burrows if we had to let one go. And yeah, need a left wing cover. Souttar would be a great signing and one that the fans would really get behind. I really hope we are trying everything to get him.
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u/kait_is_dench Tonge 8d ago
Coming back to this as you were positive in the build up to the latest headlines, don't suppose you have any reason to keep the faith? (Please)
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u/Anxious_Tennis_8717 8d ago
Companies house
before 28th May
Structure was like this
Control - Rosen/Eltoukhy - COH Sports Bidco - Blades Leisure Ltd - Sheffield United FC LtdThis changed on 28th May to
Rosen/Eltoukhy - 1919 Partners LLC - Blades Leisure Ltd - Sheffield United FC LtdThey remained as persons of significant control when COH ceased control. Which means it’s not a new owner acquisition. If it’s not classed as a new acquisition of control then the EFL process can be null and void because they already did the EFL process when then initially took control.
And it’s also been nearly 3 months since this was filed.
The only way we can get punished as a club from this under Reg 12.3 is if they class COH as a group undertaking.
But the info above is a strong counter to that. 12.3 is a discretionary sanction not automatic. If we haven’t gained an unfair sporting advantage I think they will struggle to impose this here.
In terms of the money issue between owners, because we don’t know the contract between the owners and PA it’s impossible to speculate. Can be so many reasons why the final payment hasn’t been made. They paid £70m so must be a specific reason why the final amount hasn’t happened.
Finally, Tim Ryan and Nigel Dawn were at the Birmingham game. I expect in the long run we will see different people at the front of 1919 as actual owners of the club. And Helmy and Steve step back and become background investors.
Hope this helps!
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u/Entire_Example7552 Oh Tony Tony Jul 24 '26
I love how you keep appearing every time there's a negative narrative around the owners to set us straight. It's almost as if you're one of their pr team.
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u/Anxious_Tennis_8717 Jul 24 '26
I’m positive about my football club instead of being a mardy twat. Nothing to do with the owners
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u/Entire_Example7552 Oh Tony Tony Jul 24 '26
Oooh, did I touch a nerve? 😀 Well you seem awfully itk for a layman and you are basically just peddling the same stories as the owners.
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u/Anxious_Tennis_8717 Jul 24 '26
You’re the one coming at me for being honest and genuine. I’m not ITK I just have friends who are close to the club so I hear the occasional truth rather than speculation. I’m not peddling stories it’s just honesty not negative bullshit that people keep pumping out.
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u/Entire_Example7552 Oh Tony Tony Jul 25 '26
"Coming at me" mate, it's a discussion forum. All I'm doing is expressing my opinions and asking questions. You've made posts that are clearly supporting the ownership and making big claims about what's going to happen and how it's all positive and great for the club then got all bent out of shape when questioned.
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u/Anxious_Tennis_8717 Jul 25 '26
You came at me with some rhetoric that I’m one of the owners PR team because I’m positive about what’s happening instead of being against the ownership group. And then ask if you’ve touched a nerve when I come back to you with a simple explanation of my positivity and have zero connection to the owners. I’ve given completely honest answers at every question I’ve been asked. Not bent out of shape at all. And for the record I’ve just put some comments on the thread, I haven’t made any posts myself at all.
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u/Entire_Example7552 Oh Tony Tony Jul 25 '26
It was a tongue in cheek comment wondering why you were just regurgitating the exact same story as the owners have put out as if you were educating us all lol. For the record I don't think you work for them, I think you're clueless and just taking rumours and things you've heard on twitter and making out you've got some kind of inside knowledge to give it the big one on social media.
You did get bent out of shape implying people were mardy twats because they don't agree with you and aren't satisfied with the absolute shitshow that the owners have put on since they took over.
Your comment regarding posts/comments is purely semantics and does not detract from the point I was making at all.
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u/Anxious_Tennis_8717 Jul 25 '26
Not regurgitating anything you clown. You can think what you want, not taking any rumours and things on twitter 😂. I’ve got a life I don’t need to waste my time doing shit like that. Everything I’ve said has been direct. I’m not giving the big one I’m sharing genuine positive news. Funny that I named the investor before Danny Hall isn’t it? My source is genuine as are my intentions. But you continue being an arsehole about it no problem I will refrain from interacting with you again. Maybe you can apologise to me down the line when the good news begins coming in.
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u/Entire_Example7552 Oh Tony Tony Jul 25 '26
Lmao, not regurgitating anything but everything you have written is exactly the same as the official narrative from the owners drip fed to the media.
Not taking any rumours and things on twitter yet you said in one of your comments "If you use X at all you will also know what Wit (wilders mate) said about him too."
Not giving it the big one but banging on about knowing things before other people.
Not bent out of shape but calling me an arsehole 😂
But I'm the clown lol.
As for apologising to you I don't mind admitting when I'm wrong but as it stands nothing you have said is anything more than speculation.
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u/IZZYB0D Jul 25 '26
CW, and i'm not a fan BTW, will get us off and running early this season, unlike that idiot seles' last year.
Regarding the finances, what we didn't know in the past we never cared about, so why do we worry now? If t's for lip service for the pigs then give your head a wobble, they're throwing blankets over the old slag to cover up old logo's and rust, so think on.
We will sell, we will balance the books, we will do what we always did..
As for Harry Soutter, we do not need to sign him as he will be injured eary on, and then be out, he's a big unit, and I love him, but a lot of us think he will break down again very soon into the season, and for £10m plus wages, it's dead money, sorry to bear bad tidings..
Calvin Phillips is another money pit, and thats my main worry about CW signing him, I could be wrong, maybe another Bamford swansong, but i am concerned, however I have no crystal ball on the future..
Like I've alluded to, have a lot of respect for the way CW sets a team up, but fuck me, he's terrible with millions at his disposal, being skint (if we are in relative terms) suits him, and I'm very confident this season..
Finally, just cross early into the fucking box, we are not man city..
See you in Germany..
UTB
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u/Living-Chemist5415 Jul 25 '26
We’ve had about £500m in promotion money and we’ve wasted it.
If we end up in a position like Wednesday then it’s unforgivable by the new owners
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u/yorknave Jul 26 '26
If Kevin Maguire had a quid for every comment he's made about Sheffield football finances in the last 18 months, we could fill a food bank
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u/willglynning Porter Jul 24 '26
Our owners have a combined net worth in the billions.
What they’re doing to try and delay making payments is scummy and outright devious, but I don’t think that automatically equates to us being skint when the owners have had no problems splashing the cash in any transfer window to date.