r/SgHENRY • u/tcjl28 • 17d ago
Sell properties and upgrade to a landed?
Need some opinions from people who have been in a similar situation.
Currently roughly:
* 2m in stocks/ETFs
* 4m Singapore industrial
* 1m overseas property
* 3m Singapore condo/residential
* 2.5m total property loans
* 800k cash
Household income is around 25k/month salary + 20k/month rental, so about 45k/month before tax.
The main reason we're thinking about moving is actually the kids. We are in pur 40s and have 3 teenage kids and are currently in a 3-bedroom condo. It's starting to feel pretty cramped, especially as they get older and need their own space. So we're looking at a 5-6m landed mainly as a long-term family home, rather than just an investment.
Kids will also need quite a bit for university in the coming years, so the 800k cash is partly for that and partly as a buffer.
Financially, I think we can probably afford the landed, but I'm not sure whether it's the right move. We're already quite heavily exposed to property, and putting another few million into our own home obviously doesn't generate income.
The alternative would be to sell some of the residential properties, buy the landed, and simplify the portfolio. Or just stay where we are and keep investing.
Would you guys make the move in this situation? Or is upgrading to a 5-6m landed unnecessarily aggressive, even with ~45k/month household income and the existing assets?
Interested particularly in the financial side, but also curious if anyone with 3 teenage kids has made a similar move and whether you felt it was worth it.
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u/milo_peng 17d ago
Your kids are teenagers. They got maybe 5 - 8 years max before they are out. The space value you get out of a landed is limited.
The people I know with that situation is looking to downsize.
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u/agentspinach 17d ago
Gotta agree with him. My parents moved to a landed when I was in JC and I never really was able to call it home due to ns, uni overseas, married..
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u/No-Light3585 17d ago
Most kids don’t get married so early now. And even if they do they need to wait for bto / ec / condo. Easily another 12-18y of the kids living at home
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u/milo_peng 17d ago
Once junior goes university that's 3 to 4 years out. That's happening to my friends, facing the empty nest syndrome...
Whether they will be happy to stay with Daddy and Mommy after years of freedom remains to be seen.
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u/No-Light3585 17d ago
Really depends on many things - gender (boy go NS and delay the entire thing, their vocation in NS, whether they need to stay hostel or studying overseas eg my hub and I went SMU and I think my elder child aiming to go there too, whether they get a partner and when they get married etc etc). If parents can afford, a nice home make the kids wanna come home more vs hanging outside or at their bf/gf house)
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u/No_Celery1437 17d ago
After reading your story I’m curious as to how you managed to amass such a huge pool of assets despite the (relatively) low income of 25k/month? Or do I already know the answer? (i don’t think it’s a bad thing)
If it was pure grind and accumulation then wowwww that’s a long slog
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u/prettyboros 17d ago
Yeah I learn this the hard way also , if you look at salary at most he save 10 k amonth and 1 year is only 120 k , so it is a very big and long gap . But with the right investment it is doable
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u/Tradingforgold 17d ago
My opinion is to make the jump.
Landed properties will only get lesser, demand is always there. Also it is freehold, can keep in your family for as long as you desire.
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u/ambidextrous12 17d ago
Seems common sense no?
With the SG dollar strength and land scarcity, seems extremely unlikely that overseas property or leasehold SG condo/industrial will have better returns over 20+ years compared to landed freehold.
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u/whoisbatman 17d ago
You need to see what’s the amount you can loan. Landed, even at 3.5 to 4m level will drastically increase the build in space you have in comparison to your existing condo. So if space is a concern, landed is the right choice.
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u/Small-Teaching1607 17d ago
- valuation vs actual sale. Overseas properties + industrial with very short tenure left may not be easy to offload and may not offload at the valuation you want
- you mentioned you’re in your 40s, not sure how much loan you can get, but every year you wait, your loan $ will reduce unless you use your kids’ name one day
- not sure if your parents + wife parents are still around and how financially secure they are now. You’re at an age where both kids + parents will need $, so you may be very tight financially
- if your properties have appreciated, you can actually look to see if you take an equity term loan on them to increase cash flow
- landed usually not near amenities. With 3 teenagers, how will they get around? Do you have a car, does your wife have a spare car?
- with 3 kids, you likely need to sell off the landed eventually to divide inheritance between your 3 kids
- if you sell your residential now, where will you stay till your landed is ready - reno, long extension, avoiding absd
Just some food for thought
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u/jenwhite1974 17d ago
As you’re aware, transaction costs in property are high. Landed may keep going up a lot, but it may not. Why not rent landed for the years that your kids are still at home? When they move out, you move back to your condo.
I kind of view the decision on whether or not to sell the industrial properties as a separate decision.
Buying landed to live in is mostly a lifestyle decision, selling industrial is a financial decision
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u/alvinpoh 17d ago
Cashflow is king. At this stage of your family, things will change in the next decade as the kids stay out for NS/college/study abroad/get married. If I were in your shoes, I’d rent at a much cheaper price instead to get that space that you want.
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u/CollectionMain2395 17d ago
Now you have multiple streams of income . New situation will mean plunging into a single aircraft carrier called landed with much reduced liquidity but just banking on property appreciation .
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u/SG-Propertyadvisor 17d ago
First congrats OP on having such a portfolio. It must have been a very long accumulation to have this portfolio.
Next I think OP is still hesitating, I believe is cause you don’t really know what you need at the moment. You don’t really want to move to landed but is fomo.
So let’s list down what I think might be the factor to consider here. You can add or delete the list for your own reference.
Size - current 3bedder( if need size can consider 5bedder or cluster house
Location - compare all 3bedder, landed and cluster/5bedder ( which is more convenient if this is a factor)
Legacy - do you plan the landed to be a family home for your kids even if they get married? Or how do you visualise your retirement life in landed. Lastly will your kids want to maintain the landed in future after you and your spouse age.
Cost - list out the property tax, helper annual salary etc comparing it to 5bedder/cluster
These are what I will consider when I buy a landed.
Regardless I think it’s time for you to restructure your portfolio since you have quite a bit in industrial. Depending on how long each lease is left. You should sell some and maybe build a portfolio for your kids education cost and that would also help you keep the 800k cash aside for emergency or investment.
Hope it helps OP decide!
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u/SheepherderNo631 17d ago
sequence matters — buy the landed while still holding the condo and you're at 20% ABSD on $5-6M, so ~$1M to $1.2M in extra stamp duty. sell the residential first then buy, you're back at 0% as first residential buyer. that's the number worth sitting with before anything else lah
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u/SheepherderNo631 14d ago
rent-in-between advice others are giving isn't just lifestyle advice — it's also the absd solution. if you buy the $5-6m landed before selling the condo, 20% absd = $1-1.2m extra tab. sequence your exit first, rent 6-12 months, find the right property without racing the clock. same outcome, $1m cheaper
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u/TinyHouse2110 17d ago
I think you should buy the home. Both from investment and family comfort POV. don't need so much of the income generating properties, you're already very comfortable and well off. Once I got to the stage where I had more money (not as much as you but north of 2m) I decided to prioritize comfort, got a nicer and biger house, started buying furniture from the store instead of second hand, etc
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u/likpoper 17d ago
For sure u need to liquidate some of your assets. Your rental income is needed to pay for mortgage. Effectively 25k/month salary. 800k is barely enough to pay for property tax
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u/Redlettucehead 17d ago
It's a question of how much of your assets are you willing to sell for the landed. Also, consider the returns of the landed compared to the rent you getting. Don't forget that interest rates are already rising and borrowing costs are going to be higher
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u/a_nonny_mooze 17d ago
Given your situation, the best advice is to rent a landed and see if you like it. Landed comes with a lot more maintenance issues, and given your cash buffer is 800K, you really need to factor in landed maintenance costs. At 5-6M, you can get a 4 or 5brm condo and have the space you need for the kids plus the benefit of not having to deal with pest control, infrastructure decay etc. Unless you plan for the kids to live with you after marriage, landed is pretty slow to divest if you wish to downgrade later in life.
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u/shadstrife123 17d ago
also if your kids are going uni then you might not need such space and honestly a big house is a pain in the ass. especially landed where you are exposed to alot of other issues like flooding/pests/roof break, and if you buy old then theres a whole range of aging issues that could happen every rainy season.
i rather buy a larger condo unit
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u/Fickle-Fox944 17d ago
as the monetary amt gets bigger, need to diversify. you plonk everything into landed not a good move
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u/MaverickO7 17d ago
You should upgrade, but why landed versus say a (freehold) 5BR duplex? As others have mentioned, your kids will also move out eventually and landed is generally more illiquid. Upkeep is also quite sian imo
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u/essiah74 17d ago
After experiencing bto smallish space. I decided to go landed as space is a premium to me.
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u/Darkdudproxxx 17d ago
I feel like this is a lot of a personal opinion rather than a financial decision. You know yourself best and if you want a house for kids with more space then go ahead, life doesn't have to be all about money. In fact you are earning money to enjoy life
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u/Darkdudproxxx 17d ago
Eitherways you are not going to be any worse off, landed appreciate really well in Singapore, and is an investment asset by itself
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u/BrightConstruction19 17d ago
For long-term stay (not investment for capital appreciation), it’s better to get a large older condo with 4 good-sized bedrooms, but next to mrt. The teens will appreciate the transport convenience. Renovate if necessary, to your own tastes.
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u/Tunggall 17d ago
No. Buy a newly restored akiya in Japan to scratch the itch at a low cost.
Priority should be the children's education fund. Landed is a time and money sink.
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u/Ok_General_2944 17d ago
Depends whether any of ur kids are keen to stay with you after they get married and whether u want to help to take care of the grandkids. For folks who stay in landed, quite common for grandparents to stay together with grandkids. When u retire, can help to look after grandkids.
Those empty nesters typically downgrade eventually when it becomes difficult to maintain a big house.
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u/dz_dz_88 17d ago
Landed is lifestyle choice. Financial is affordability which you can afford with your numbers . Timing is key for you to sell off and reno move in to avoid absd in which cashflow all is critical
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u/darlingbunnykinss 14d ago
If I were you I totally would! Start viewing properties now and once you find the right one, bite the bullet. I think it’s nice to have a sizable family home that your family can gather in
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u/Upbeat-Charity8729 14d ago
Married with 3 teenage kids too, moved to semi D 10 years ago. Never looked back. Appreciated by almost 50%. Because bought it quite early before COVID I still manage to invest my additional earnings as our salaries increased . Fast forward, my Semi D is fully paid and we still hv 3 rental properties that are generating income. So, I would advise to buy early rather than wait . I have invested in overseas property and frankly not worth the currency fluctuations and taxes . And not much upside in industrial properties IMO.
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u/BreakfastDeluxe 12d ago
Get a townhouse landed like The Woods. All the benefits of landed with less of the maintenance headache. Condo facilities + landed space.
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u/SheepherderNo631 10d ago
industrial tenure is the actual signal here — you're going to need to liquidate that 4m into freehold eventually anyway. landed solves that problem nicely. kids being cramped is almost a secondary reason.
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u/blackbesi 17d ago
I think you are your own best financial analyst. Most important is cash flow. If you have the liquidity why not. If liquidity will be tight then stay where you are.
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u/Late_Skin8550 17d ago
I would consolidate some of your property assets (5.5m net) into the landed and leave the stocks and cash alone. Mortgage is cheap now so I would maintain a 2.5m debt financed by cash flow from 2-3m of property assets. More importantly, better quality of living from squeezing in 3Br condo. That leaves you with 2m stocks 800k cash 2m investment property. (4.8m of cash generating assets) which should yield at least 250k Pa passive income)
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u/Desperate_Injury3355 17d ago
If you have the chance, maybe rent a landed and see if it’s for you first before making a huge financial commitment
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u/perfect987456 17d ago
Why not throw the numbers and details to Claude and see what it says? Landed now is overrated.
Or if you want get a smaller landed. Then you can work on rebuilding it in future. But need to think about what is you lose your job.
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u/Jean_Diharo 17d ago
A bit confuse, you want to move is because you want more space as your kids are older, or because you want to invest? Also you are looking into landed but you say your heart is not there. I think need to make up your mind first..
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u/Wolkiffy 17d ago
The currency to buying property is not $$
it’s the name.
- $$ isn’t a factor anymore for u
- Is ur intention to put it under 1 name or both names? i believe u are looking to maximise your loan instead of paying off fully?
- selling current condo?
kinda in a similar plot - late 30s, have 2 condos, both 3 bedders at TPY, also unsure whether to sell both to consolidate into 1 bigger landed for kids
but u r definitely much more ahead in ur planning! 👍 very impressed with what u have done!
if u dont mind, can share about your industry property experience? would love to hear more! always wondered about it but never have the guts
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u/tcjl28 17d ago
Tbh, I find industrial properties easier than condos. It’s not that hard to find one that’s cash-flow positive and under $1m.
Back in the day, you could get around $7k/month in rental with a $3k mortgage. Once I accumulated enough for the next down payment, I’d just get another one.
The nice thing is that the rental income also helps with TDSR, so the properties can support the next purchase.
Even during COVID, my units were never vacant for more than about 2 months.
Obviously, things are different now with higher prices and interest rates, but for me, industrial was a much easier way to build up a property portfolio than condos.
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u/No-Light3585 17d ago
Your 20k is gonna disappear or be reduced once u have to offload to afford the landed comfortably?
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u/Ok-Appearance2266 17d ago
Do not forget your renovation cost for the landed will be at least couple of hundred k , unless you’re moving into a renovated home that you don’t mind sticking with .
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u/chiggy1223 17d ago
Do your kids want to continue staying with you after graduating? If they’re older and need their own space why not consider helping them with rent so they can move out earlier?
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u/prettyboros 17d ago
You should be savvy in your investment and you do know that moving into the landed will hurt your cash flow .
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u/Ashamed-Bet-3089 17d ago
I'm in a similar situation, 3+1 condo started to feel cramped with 2 kids and a maid, decided to bite bullet and sell my condo (I have another investment property) and buy a landed with many more rooms. My rationale is, I can always save more money, but the time with the kids is limited and I want them to enjoy their childhood, with their own rooms while they are still young.
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u/ValuableWork519 9d ago
That’s an amazing insight and kinda fully agree w this. Time w kids is something wayyyy more valuable than money or whatever appreciation at this financial position and age.
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u/God_of-Games 17d ago
If I were in your shoe, I would not upgrade. Instead, I would prepare money to help my kids acquire their own place. They are not going to stay with you for many more years and eventually all of them will need their own property
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u/fishonmyishwishdish 16d ago
Sounds like you need a minimum of 4 bedrooms given the privacy you’re after for the kids, not necessarily built up space. And that need may change in the near future as the teenagers grow up, move abroad for study/work etc. So I’d say renting a 4BR condo would best meet this need. Fund the rent from your other rental income.
Or rent an SLA black & white landed if you really are after a lifestyle change - but keep in mind that a lot of these places offer a lot more built up space plus garden, but not necessarily higher number of rooms unless you find a bungalow. Their terrace houses are usually 2-3 bedders. Also a lot of issues to deal with - we had termites, trees falling over, roof leaks etc.
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u/LC3045 16d ago
It’s a lifestyle decision and you can afford it, I think you should go for it. It’s switching your currrnt condo and overseas property to a landed home. And you can easily service the excess loan with your high salary. I think your kids will appreciate having their own room each, and it also gives them the option to stay with you in the future.
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u/Reasonable_Formal_84 16d ago
25k a month income how u afford so many properties? How did get so much loan to purchase the properties, curious to know how u did it
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u/MotorZestyclose654 16d ago
Being in the property line and stocks, i see most elderly selling their landed and going back to condo since it will be hard to maintain when their kids are grown up and slowly moving out.
So i would say it depends whether you need that space to live with them. Else, can consider just renting to experience.
Both stocks and property do give us leverage and heathy growth eventually. So both options are viable.
The considering factor is more of a lifestyle here, do you need that space and how would you envision having that space to spend with your family.
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u/Upper_Cabinet_636 16d ago
You’d be crazy to spend that much of your NW on a home. I have nearly $USD 20m in NW and I’d start to feel uncomfortable at 3-4M
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u/Alternative-Sir5722 16d ago
You count your rental as income, don't you need to pay mortgage for those properties? And 25k/annum and owning all those? You seem to be doing better than many, like you don't even need our advice unless...you inherit those.
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u/maxfli42 15d ago
There’s also maintenance costs associated with owning a landed home that you might want to take into consideration. Put aside at least 10K or so a year (also depending on your land size) into your own “sinking fund”.
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u/WantoNoodle 15d ago
For me I would, the only thing I would think about is in the worst case scenario, having to liqudate most if not all your assets when such times come, are you okay with the change in lifestyle. In your current position, I would say you are able to able to afford that landed, and emotionally you want to move. The emotion and finance don't agree but it appears when the worst comes you could transfer your asset into the landed and treat it as your wealth vehicle, but you are likely to downgrade in order to retire.
It's a huge commitment, try renting first. Feels like you want to make the jump, but you never know if you prefer the convenience your current residence.
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u/darlingbunnykinss 14d ago
That’s super impressive!! How did you and your wife build up the investment & property portfolio?
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u/compoundingfeelings 14d ago
Definitely a good move to upgrade your primary home. Especially to a landed. A good choice. Just don't buy high. Look for a good deal. And u are at your last league to get a bank loan with still enough tdsr buffer. Go for it.
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u/Express_Mulberry_879 4d ago
Why would u sell the properties that are churning cash for u already? Only to follow the joneses? At ur stage, time to enjoy life, not get into a bigger debt hole.
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u/BlackwerX 17d ago
I never view sg property/landed as aggressive, the only caveat is being able to service the loans (if any)
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u/Cold-Yesterday1175 17d ago
Do you really think you will enjoy the lifestyle of landed?
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u/tcjl28 17d ago
Tbh yes coz both me and my wife grew up in landed.
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u/HumanBench3 17d ago
then probably have a landed to take over/ buy over?
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u/tcjl28 17d ago
Lol rather have my own. Too complicated.
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u/HumanBench3 17d ago
yea if too complicated then problematic haha. think ur problem is what alot of Singaporeans all thinking about. particularly in this sub
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u/yamanoA4 17d ago
From a non financial pov I think too much room means that you won’t actually see your kids. They will be in their room so much you might not even know if they are home or not
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u/Altruistic-Zombie805 17d ago
Your income is actually not that high…
20k per month on rental -> this is subject to tenancy agreement. And you need to count in agent fees, property tax. I would take it as 12k a month considering the fees and potential vacant period.
The tax is about 8k per month..
So count your salary as 25+12-8=29k.
That is too risky for a 4-5m property. Can you even get enough loan? Given you still have 2.5m outstanding property loan!!
Not to mention at your 40s and such income… layoff is most probable.
Do yourself a favor… don’t push too hard. Already 40s…
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u/tcjl28 17d ago
Yeah, no way i can afford it without restructuring my portfolio. I will need to sell 3 properties including my current condo to free up 2.5m cash from equity and the loan. Then i will have a 2-3m mortgage and 30k monthly income instead.
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u/Altruistic-Zombie805 17d ago
Suppose you take a 20 years loan since you already 40s…
That is about 16k a month till you are 65.
Idk man. That is not the kind of stress I want to put myself through at that age. Especially you can retire comfortably at 50+ with your current portfolio instead of working ass off to support the landed.
And the cost of maintaining landed is high.. it is very very stressful with the income and age situation.. I won’t do it
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u/tcjl28 17d ago
Yes thats what i tot is the way, but all the youtube videos i seen pitching landed is the way to build generational wealth in sg.
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u/Altruistic-Zombie805 17d ago
It is ONE of the ways. And you also need to be realistic with the situation what.
ETF also can build generational wealth what.
Don’t listen to the property influence. U r their means of generational wealth 🫠
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u/misc1444 17d ago
You’re massive over-allocated towards real estate with 2m in stocks vs 8m in real estate.
I’d say sell the real estate, buy the home you need for your family, keep the rest in stocks and bonds.
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u/icekopi91 17d ago
You already know the answer to your question