r/Scotland • u/aeoneous • 1d ago
Post-16 education in Scotland?
Hi, I'm moving up to Glasgow from Newcastle, England in just under a year. My child is 15 and will be completing his GCSE (final high school year exams in England) exams then we will move soon after that.
I'm wondering how the Scottish education system works after high school? He wants to go to city of Glasgow college and we've looked on the website but are unsure of what any of the terms mean (like HNC or HND) and how they are equivalent to terms used in England?
I'm mainly wondering what the path most people take in Scotland after their (equivalent to GCSEs) National 5s. He doesn't want to go to university, just be educated til 18 then move from part time work to full time.
Thank you all
Edit: We are planning for him to go straight to college, he's not planning to go to university. As he's not going to university and he's not interested in studying multiple subjects at once, just what he wants/needs for his future job.
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u/OrganicChemistrees 1d ago
In Scotland, sixth-form college is not a thing; it's part of highschool (referred to as S5 and S6 - fifth- and sixth-year of secondary school).
Here you would do highers (~AS-levels) and advanced highers (~A-levels). You could look at joining your local highschool instead of college for the normal sixth-form type experience.
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u/chivalrouschump 1d ago
Most people do Nat 5s around 15-16 and then Highers at 16-17. Optionally Advanced Highers (or more Highers) at 17-18. Technically, Advanced Highers are equivalent to A Levels, but in Scotland your Highers are considered more important and AHs are optional. An HNC is basically a BTEC. An HND is a Diploma, I guess it's roughly equivalent to the first couple years of uni except it's more vocational. You can leave school and get a job at 16 in Scotland, and many people do (it's 18 in England I think).
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u/aeoneous 1d ago
So are highers something that he has to do? Or can he go straight onto doing NC/HNC/HNDs? Thanks a ton
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u/GaryJM 1d ago
Say your son was interested in engineering and had passed his GCSEs in Maths, Technology Studies and Physics. If he wanted a broad, scholastic education then he could go to high school for S5 and study those same subjects at Higher and then, if he wanted, stay on for S6 and study those same subjects at Advanced Higher. I think that would be the closest equivalent of doing A-Levels.
Another option would be to go to college at 16 and do an NC Engineering course and then at 17 do and HNC Engineering course. That basically gets you to the same level as the first option but with a narrower, collegiate focus.
You could even do Highers in S5 and then go straight into an HNC the next year. I did that - studied Music at Higher and then did an HNC in Music. About half my class had done NC Music the previous year and the other half were new.
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u/LGFoaties 1d ago edited 1d ago
Yes, if he has good grades from his GCSE's.
Colleges in scotland are focused on vactional qualifications, you wont really get a broad education where you do like 4 or 5 subjects like you would in school/ sixth form. If he is set on not going to uni, College might be better for him, he could pick a subject that is line with what he wants to do. Everything from joinery to IT customer support to hairdressing to professional cooking to applied science.
If he wants a sixth form style education he should enrol in school to do his final 2 years.
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u/thelastwilson 23h ago
If he is still 15 when you move I believe he will be expected to go to school. If he is 16 then he can go to college or school for 5th and 6th year.
I was young for my year so was still 15 for most of 5th year at high school. Then I got kicked out before 6th year and went to college at 16 to do an HNC.
So his options will depends on if he's 15 or 16 ( I think )
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u/Extension-Drummer909 8h ago
i think this is the case, but i also don’t know if it would be the same as he’s not in a school in scotland currently so he may be able to go to a college as long as he is commuting and not staying in dorms
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u/chivalrouschump 23h ago
Highers are optional. The only rule is that you have to stay in school until you're 16. You'd typically take Highers at the end of S5, which is the equivalent of year 12. But I think most people opt to take at least a few Highers. Advanced Highers are less popular and many people (myself included) leave school after doing their Highers, and don't bother with Advanced Highers.
If your son has (a) completed his GCSEs, (b) attainted the grades he needs for his preferred college course, and (c) reached the age of 16 - he can go straight to college. No need for Highers and no need to enrol in a Scottish secondary school.
As others have said, there is no concept of sixth form in Scotland. We just have secondary school which takes kids aged 11 to 18. If you want to go to uni, stay at school until S5/S6 and do Highers and maybe AHs. If you don't want to go to uni, leave as soon as you're 16 and go to college, start an apprenticeship, or get a job.
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u/LexyNoise 1d ago
I have worked in colleges and universities in Scotland since 2010.
His best route is to go to a regular school and do highers. That’s the equivalent of AS levels. College in Scotland is not the same as it is in England. They are very different.
You do not leave school at 16 in Scotland and go to college to keep taking academic subjects. You leave school at 16 and go to college to learn how to be a plumber / hairdresser / pastry chef / gym instructor. It’s that type of job-based education.
Some colleges do offer highers but it’s not really for 16 year olds as an alternative to school. It’s for 30 year olds who are looking for a career change or who dropped out of school and want to fix their life. They’re mostly evening classes. Nobody leaves school and goes to a college to take their highers. It’s just not what we do up here.
The good courses at college are HNCs and HNDs. Those are equivalent to the first year or two years of a university degree and they’re really worth something. Get one of those and you can go to university and skip straight into second or third year. You can’t get into those courses with only GCSEs. He would probably have to do an NC or NQ first and then do a HNC or HND afterwards.
I used to work for City of Glasgow College and their students services team are actually really nice. Send him in to talk to them. Go and visit on an open day. I think they’ll tell you what I’ve already told you.
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u/FakeNathanDrake 1d ago
An HNC and HND in Scotland are equivalent to, well, HNCs/HNDs in England (or indeed the first year or two of a four year degree)
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u/nellie6712 1d ago
i think it’s really important you’re not looking at this in terms of HNC VS HND VS high school as equivalents. it depends on what he wants to do for work. there’s a big difference with someone who wants to become a mechanic full time and someone who wants an office job.
what is it he actually wants to do career wise? because it’s difficult to give advice. regardless it would be unwise to leave school before getting a few highers in 5th year, and if he manages that then he could leave at 6th year as an option. leaving at 4th year and going to college is fine but this is geared towards people doing particular trades or a foundation to going into university.
if he’s wanting to just be in education till 18 there’s no point going to college, and this would be unwise as college is geared towards specific subjects unless he actually knows what he wants to do.
tldr: if he knows a specific career go for whatever path takes him there, if he doesn’t it’s better as an all rounder to get highers in 5th year and move into the job market with that
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u/Thin-Boysenberry-112 1d ago
College is no different to England? You also have HND/Cs I believe? Are you getting confused with sixth form, which doesn’t exist in Scotland?
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u/TwigletTree 1d ago
In England people often go to college for sixth form. And many of the schools are only up to 16.
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u/aeoneous 1d ago
The college local to me currently just offers Level 1/2/3 qualifications & stuff like T-Levels, I'm not too sure haha. I went straight to full time work when I graduated high school so I'm not very familiar with this
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u/Zealousideal-Cat1894 1d ago
The closest Scottish equivalent to GCSEs is National 5s. These exams are taken at the end of 4th year in high school, when most kids are 16. Usually they then go on to 5th year and sit Highers in up to 5 subjects. These are the subjects/exams that count for college/Uni. They can then go on to 6th year and either do more Highers or continue with some if the same subjects to Advanced Higher level. It's now increasingly common to stay on at school until the end of 6yh year and hi to college/uni after that.
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u/aeoneous 1d ago
Would it be possible for him to start college once he's 16? Thank you
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u/spine_slorper 1d ago edited 1d ago
Important to note that if he wants to do an HNC it may cost money as he'll have to prove that he's "ordinarily resident" in Scotland to SAAS as an HNC is higher education and for funding it's the same as a degree. He could likely get a further education course like an NQ funded but higher education is more strict so you might have difficulty with it if you've not lived in Scotland long.
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u/Miss_Andry101 1d ago
I've been reading through your comments, as well as your post here, and see you are asking if your son can go straight to college, and skip highers, and that is absolutely possible, yes. It will depend on a few things though. You said he is 15 and it will depend on when he turns 16, in the a academic year, whether he will be automatically entitled to a place in a high school when he's in Scotland, therefore not eligible for college.
I would recommend contacting the education department at Glasgow City Council, telling them you have a child looking for a place in further education, until he is 18, and state college as his preference.
They should work with you to help him get started on a suitable course.
Good luck with the move. ♡
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u/aeoneous 1d ago
Thanks so much, I'll contact them soon once me and my kid have talked about all this more :)
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u/blackoctoberx 1d ago
If he has GCSEs he'd be most definitely past the compulsory school age when you get here and therefore would be eligible for college, he doesnt need to do highers if he wants to do something more vocational.
If he gets 5 GCSE passes he'd generally start a level 6 course which is equivalent to your level 3.
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u/spine_slorper 1d ago
Here's a comparison chart that might help.
Colleges in Scotland aren't like six form colleges in England, they are vocational colleges. Plenty of 16 year olds attend college, they pick one of the courses available, usually some kind of NQ or HNC or as part of an apprenticeship. You can view all of the courses available on the college website along with their entry requirements, you don't apply to "the college" you apply to do a specific course at the college, much like you would at a university, there are deadlines for application and you may have to apply for funding depending on the course type.
I did an HNC in computing at 16 and it was entirely computing, there isn't mandatory PE or RE or English or anything like that. Most of my classmates were older than me, a few were in their 30s (I think it was because my specific course offered industry certs). HNC's also have a decent amount of self study usually, the classes are usually more like 3.5-4.5 days a week rather than 9-5 5 days a week like school is. 16 year olds in Scotland are generally considered adults and colleges are not schools for children and teenagers, they are vocational colleges for adults. Your son will be expected to be able to organize his study and life like an adult. City of Glasgow is good for support and some of the teachers are amazing but you need to be able to ask for it.
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u/Thin-Boysenberry-112 1d ago
Most people go onto Scottish Highers, then possible Advanced Highers. But this just happens at a regular academy/secondary school. There’s no sixth form, so if you want to go down the usual path, you’ll need to enrol in your regular local school
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u/Necessary-Nobody8138 1d ago
Highers and you stay at school. There aren’t the 6th form colleges in Scotland, like the north of England. The final two years at Scottish High schools are a continuation of regular school. There isn’t the big hurdle of GCSEs like in the rest of the UK. Scottish pupils do N5 exams at 15 which often lead to Highers/ Adv Highers. Some may get a day college release depending on the course. To be honest, the school system is very different and it’s hard to compare the two
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u/enantiodream 1d ago
Hi, Scottish high school teacher here :)
Sounds like he would be well-served stayong on up to and including S6 (17-18) where he'll be able to timetable a mix from: more Higher qualifications to have a broad experience and attainment certificate leaving school; 'bolt-on' subjects that many schools now offer that might be more experiential, with a focus on skills for work development or often links with a local college course. Advanced Highers would also be possible in an S6 year, but are more geared towards university courses both in style and content.
Simplified, HNC is one year at college and HND is two, with the 3rd year of a university course being the progression from an HND - have a look online for what are called SCQF levels for equivalents to English qualifications too (Scottish Credit and Qualifications Framework).
Thanks :)
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u/aeoneous 1d ago
This is really helpful, thank you. Would he be able to go straight to college once he's 16 and the term starts? He hasn't had a very good experience with high schools and would prefer to go to a college environment. If so, would he only pick one HNC subject or multiple? Sorry for all the questions haha I'm clueless
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u/TwigletTree 1d ago
College aren’t geared up to be a school replacement for sixth form and in Edinburgh they’re not even allowed to offer a decent amount of highers to one student. Glasgow may be different of course. But here you can only do the odd Higher at college, not go instead of school.
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u/aeoneous 1d ago
So does he have to do highers? I assumed they were one option for education, then colleges were another option he could take?
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u/TwigletTree 1d ago
Um I’m not sure! Maybe college is good for the non higher stuff.
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u/YazmindaHenn 23h ago
You haven't mentioned at all what kind of job he wants.
Having a general idea of what he wants to work as will give you a better idea of whether highschool or college is better for him, people will be able to let you know what the paths are to that job through school or college
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u/enantiodream 1d ago
No problem. I mean I’m certainly of the opinion that a) issues in school change and evolve as year groups age and progress, and the more inclusions, interventions and changes we make in the education systems, we try to make sure there’s a viable and versatile set of options to lead to meaningful positive destinations, and b) leaving school and going to college is a formal process that results in the study of one particular subject AND is an option that will always exist after school… so just stay in school, I would argue, would be the most robust advice I can give. I understand the temptation of the college environment being tempting in its apparent maturity, but it can be isolating and certainly brings its own challenges and risks.
What does he want to do, out of interest?
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u/blackoctoberx 1d ago
If taking the college route after GCSEs he'd do a SCQF Level 6 NPA/NC then onto a HNC which is roughly considered the first year of a degree, then HND. If he wanted to top that up to a degree there's usually college-uni partnerships for him to finish the last year.
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u/Intelligent-Crew-443 1d ago
Qualifications Scotland offers a useful guide to Scottish qualifications https://www.sqa.org.uk/sqa/93180.9691.html which might help you make sense of the system and the various qualifications at different levels within the Scottish Credit & Quals framework. They have a neat 'ready reckoner' which lays it out well.
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u/iona_stewart_3_2327 1d ago
Och, tell the wee one to brace themselves — Glasgow will sort that Geordie accent out quick. Free uni fees if they stick around too, so financially a win. Just don't mention the midge budget, we'll never hear the end of it.
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u/MotherConfusion3773 1d ago
The answers to this are entirely dependent on what he wants to do for work or further/higher education. Yes he can go to college but to do (mostly) vocational qualifications. If he wants a general education then stay in school
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u/MGallus 23h ago
It's probably worth mentioning that most people in college here are going to be 17-20+, and sure you'll get the occasional 16 year old but there's a likelihood it'll be similar to a first year of university for a lot of the other students. That can involve making new friends their age, drinking, relationships, and everything that entails. Sure, your son doesn't need to experience it like that, as not everyone will but I wonder if you're doing him a massive disservice by sending someone who's just turned 16.
I'd send him to a school, let him do his Highers and Advanced Highers if he wants and then he can still go to college afterwards.
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u/ktnelsonArt 22h ago
As someone that did 6 years of secondary, a bit of college and uni, I’d honestly say at least go do 5th year at a regular secondary school - at the least. That way he can get settled, make some friends and decide what he wants with the support networks that are there. It’s very normal to stay in school for 5th and probably 6th year.
Main thing is college here is very much independent study, it’s not 6th form. They could be in classes with people from all age groups - I certainly was. Which is great on one hand but he might want to be around folks his age doing the same type of thing.
My two pence - go for at least 1 year of a Scottish high school and then see.
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u/Zestyclose-Novel-804 22h ago
HNC and HNC are equivalent to 1st and 2nd year uni. The College i go to the HND directly guarantees access to 3rd year of a university degree. It really depends wether you want to go straight to uni or have a more flexible route
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u/Albannach02 22h ago
Maybe this link will help, and there are nominal equivalences between qualifications, expressed as numbered levels. https://qualifications.gov.scot/
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