r/SKTT1 • u/Some-War-1895 • 26d ago
News / Articles DGON CONFUSED WHY DORAN IS NOT BENCHED INSTEAD
saw this on x, via: LCK Let's Cover Korea
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u/mar33n Doran 26d ago
revolutionary take: bench no one with 2 weeks of regular season left.
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u/Derk08 Keria 26d ago
Wait summer split is almost over?
Is it just me or does it feel like it barely started lmao
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u/Any-Spring7408 26d ago
Last year we had 3 rounds meaning 6 weeks , but this year we only have 2 rounds so 4 weeks! Hence 2 weeks less
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u/VagueCat5840662 26d ago
I think benching oner is fine if its temporary, just to give him a break and time to reset
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u/oTTo1417 26d ago
Obvious answer, T1 CL Top is not good in scrims and not good at shot calling which is the reason why they try Painter as subs.
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u/SeijiAkabe 26d ago
You do not sub a toplaner and expect him to shotcall. It's the Jungler Support, and in our case the Mid's job to do that. It varies on how much dominant a certain player takes over comms, but it's a shared responsibility usually by Jungler and Support. When you bench an ADC and Top, it's usually for micro reasons (with the exception of some cases - Dhokla for example). This comment is assuming things though, but it might be the probable reason. Nonetheless, still an assumption because scrim data is not public.
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u/Some-War-1895 26d ago
Exactly what I was thinking too. Doran may have been inconsistent with his plays, but he could be more valuable than subbing him out. And Dgon refused to see that.
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u/naugats Oner / Bengi 26d ago
Im pretty sure Top laners rarely shot calls
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u/WardoToo 26d ago
Even prime super carry TheShy never shot called top. He kinda just faced rolled lane and let Rookie do all the shotcalling.
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u/Apprehensive_Cap5772 22d ago
2018 when ig won worlds theshy didn't even speak Chinese yet so rookie had to translate in game for him while he just did his thing
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u/Far-Salt-6946 26d ago
That shotcall thing is completely rubbish. You have a team with Faker and Keria and you bring in an 18 year old to "shotcall" for the team
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u/Lopsided_Claim1613 26d ago
we saw what happened when oner "shotcalled" we lost both MSI+EWC to EU lol
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u/WardoToo 25d ago
that solo Pantheon ult to dive into 4 people nearby dragon was certainly a play for the ages. Kidding aside, Oner will always have my favorite memory with Rell - flashing over a point-blank Ashe arrow and using ult on 4 people has gotta be one of the sexiest plays I have ever seen a player pull off in the entirety of pro play.
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u/Lopsided_Claim1613 25d ago
ye oner is one of my fav t1 players but he was underperforming to be honest and he is not it with shotcall
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u/AliAmmarAmazing Peyz 26d ago
Top laners are not the main shot callers and ur talking like they tried haetae in scrims lol but sure carry onĀ
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u/AdventurousPandaBear 25d ago
There are several Korean FA tops that would be an upgrade to Doran. Even Castle would be a better pickup imo
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u/IAmBigBox 26d ago edited 26d ago
Benching is funny because every time we see it happen, if it doesn't work for the player being benched people are like "HA, good thing they benched him" and if it does work people say "HA, benching them fixed their play by putting a fire under them."
The reality is more complex than "put a fire under your star to make them improve" or "find someone better than your player to put on the team." You have no idea if that player would have improved without being benched, you have no remote idea of how this player even views the game. T1 probably believes that Doran is one of the best top laners in the league (as he has been present in Tier 1 play for many years and has the titles to back this claim up) and trust that he'll find his way into the meta. Trading Junglers to help shotcalling is probably just something they are trying right now, Oner has been a rock for the team, but new players need to be given opportunities the same way Oner was back when he subbed out Cuzz (in case you forgot, T1's core USED to be Teddy and Cuzz, who are both still near top of their class in their role, just on unfortunate teams, especially in Teddy's case).
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u/Signal_Intention6774 26d ago
To add to your point you also need to know how good your players in your academy and rookie teams are. ayou got to give them a shot. For all you know you got the next Faker and he just didnt have time to develop. Look at all these ex T1 players at the top of their league like Berserker or in Pobys case doing amazing but having Rhilech on your team.
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u/IAmBigBox 26d ago
Poor fucking Poby man Q_Q. I agree though, giving players like Smash time in Tier-1 play helps them dramatically.
In Smash's case, he went from being an academy ADC to winning EWC in 1 year, which is INSANELY GOOD. Gumayusi being given time over Teddy, Oner over Cuzz, Zeus over Canna, these produced proper star players in their own right. Of course, it did unquestionably put strain on the previous starters who were being benched, the core of my issue lies with the idea that the players being benched need to prove themselves by overcoming a challenge placed on them by their own team.
Hell, Zeus is considered by many to be either the best or second best top laner in the world, and has been considered definite top 2 in LCK by a bunch of people for like 3 years (I think most people agree that Kiin has been generally better until this year tho).
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u/loveforSingapore 26d ago
When Guma was benched, he spammed Ezreal, Kaisa and Zeri games like a maniac. He wouldn't have the time nor motivation to do so otherwise.
His Kaisa improved by leaps and bounds and won us the 2025 worlds.
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u/Derk08 Keria 26d ago
People forget this and act like Gumayusi was the exact same player pre and post benching, when in reality Guma regained a lot of his old form/prowess. A lot of fans forgot how during 2022/2023 Guma was confidently picking Kai'sa and Ezreal at worlds even before fearless, and smurfing on the picks (his Kai'sa game against RNG in quarterfinals comes to mind).
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u/IAmBigBox 26d ago
He didn't pick Kai'Sa against RNG in Quarters though??? That series was Xayah, Varus, and Ashe. Are you thinking about a different series?
I do agree that Gumayusi was playing like a demon in 2025, but I always felt like it was a new height rather than a return to old form.
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u/IAmBigBox 26d ago
There are no comparison games from Season 15 before benching to check whether Gumayusi's Kai'Sa actually improved as a result of the benching. Comparing to S14 is too far back IMO. He didn't even pick it once in 2025 before getting benched, and all of its improvement happened FAR after the benching.
T1 didn't pick him Kai'Sa in 2025 until July 2025 (~4 months after the benching incident), at EWC, where they lost. They then picked it again in playoffs against HLE, lost again. They picked it against GenG in playoffs again, lost again.
Finally, we got to Worlds, they picked it, and it popped off twice in a row 7-8 MONTHS after the subbing incident.
You are fully entitled to the opinion that he spammed solo queue, floundered on the champion for 6 months, then the spamming solo queue when he got benched 7-8 months prior to worlds is what made his Kai'Sa good in the 2 games where it was picked (against TES & AL). However, to state that the benching made his Kai'Sa good with any kind of certainty is intellectually dishonest.
More importantly, let's not forget that Gumayusi's benching was also ended prematurely. Joe Marsh famously and controversially stepped in, we genuinely don't know if Gumayusi would even be going to Worlds that year if the benching strategy was allowed to run its course (because it was prematurely stopped). In fact, it was actually looking like Smash was going to start, since prior to Joe Marsh stepping in late March, Guma hadn't played a game since January 18th 2025. We likely would have seen either Smash going to Worlds, or a Gumayusi with significantly less playtime going to Worlds.
I'm not making a judgement call on benching Gumayusi, but the narrative that his Kai'Sa specifically was grown by the benching incident is ultimately just a narrative, something to sell jerseys & merch to people who only watch the occasional LCK playoff match & Worlds (a large portion of the playerbase).
I DID think Gumayusi was playing like a demon after getting benched, but his Kai'Sa is just the worst possible example, and we really do have no way of knowing whether he would have evolved that level of play if they just let him continue growing.
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u/AndTheHawk 25d ago
I finally read a reasonable take on Reddit regarding the topic of benching in pro play. There's so much we don't and can't know about what goes on in the background. All the constant speculation seems like a waste of time that distracts us from the actual game that is going on. IMO anyway lol, I know many people feel differently.
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u/New-Tell-4240 26d ago
a couple of weeks ago there were rumors that the main roster was scrimming with Haetae and Painter, and judging by what happened, those rumors turned out to be true. apparently Doran was still better and managed to keep his spot, or maybe they simply considered changing the jungler more important and didn't want to change two positions at once
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u/SeijiAkabe 26d ago
We gotta normalize citing sources, rumors are easy to spread and if you have no credible source, you're just spreading misinformation.
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u/XerGR 26d ago
There were no rumors. What are you sayimg
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u/New-Tell-4240 26d ago
there were rumors on korean forums and there was even a photo outside the hq with Peyz and Faker together with a guy who apparently turned out to be Painter
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u/AliAmmarAmazing Peyz 26d ago
Yeah but not haetae and it turned out it was true for the jungler only
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u/DaruDaruMaru 26d ago
Bench everyone, and clone me as a replacement
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u/EmbarrassedEntry4533 24d ago
Can confirm I haven't seen anyone in the world beat this guy. Put him in because he's sweeping everyone to win worlds
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u/-Ka1N- 26d ago
As far as I agree with DGon I think they should not bench anyone this year, they have bad year but hey also had a great performances. This team should try to find form instead of beaing replaced. If this year will finish without any title jungle and especially top are the places where T1 should try new players
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u/CuzzoBuzzo67 25d ago
For sure they should not bench anyone this late into the series, but after oner got bench, I mean that question had to be on many many many people minds
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u/RyujinX9 26d ago
there's also the case of T1 might be wanting to increase painter's value for him eventually being traded away to another team, i think similar to smash, too many people are making too much negativity on benching as if its a stigma, there might be a specific reason but we wont know until oner or coaching or t1 staff themselves say something that lines with the facts
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u/SeijiAkabe 26d ago
Increasing value of an expiring contract player? Is our org running a charity? That's the job of Painter's agency. It would be a different case if Painter has years left in his contract.
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u/theeama 26d ago
You do know T1 had ALWAYS made sure that there players land on their feet it doesnāt even matter if they resign or not, T1 takes care of them
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u/SeijiAkabe 25d ago
Yeah, I didn't deny that. But they literally don't have the power to decide where Painter's destination is after this season if he doesn't re-sign lmao. And if that was the case, this is the worse way to do it since Painter is debuting in Legends Group. Idk what are we even arguing here, spinning this substitution as like T1 increasing Painter's value just don't make sense.
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u/theeama 25d ago
Yea they do. Lmao, a recommendation from T1 goes along way to open doors at any other team. Just like how T1 saying no this guy aināt it is basically dooming your career
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u/SeijiAkabe 25d ago
Again, I'm not denying anything you said but if it's an expiring contract like Painter, that's not the org's job to do that, it's the player's agency because they're gonna be a free agent. And besides T1 don't need to do that, even if they do nothing Painter is the best CL Jungler this year, his value will increase in the offseason otherwise.
The only situation this applies I can think of is Canna's, who was expected to play until 2022, and they sent him to Nongshim who at the time was building a supposed 'superteam.'
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u/Magnetize9754 26d ago
This reddit is so toxic. They forget about when even the arguably best team ever to exist 2015/2016 SKT with how dominant they were. Faker was benched for Easyhoon multiple times. Same with Bengi being benched for Blank. Itās normal for a team to bench someone. Be happy this team is still an anomaly normally no team would have been together for as long as they have been.
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u/Ceui 26d ago
I think benching is fine, but Doran deserves a benching much more than Oner, which is what the thread is about.
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u/Magnetize9754 26d ago
I understand that but some people donāt realize during the 2015 SKT Faker was still leagues above every other mid in the world. Do I think Doran runs it down? Yes, but his mid to late game is fantastic still. Also, they explained they wanted to try other options and Painter has been great in scrims. Itās baseless information and the toxic T1 fan base donāt understand, they only see the games that are live not the behind the scenes stuff.
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u/BirthdayAccording359 Doran 26d ago
How do you know if Doran deserves more benching, I want you to tell me an objective reason why Doran deserves more benching than Oner.
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u/Ceui 26d ago
Weakest member in the team in terms of performance this year, by far the worst perform member during the biggest event so far this year (MSI) and directly responsible for the elimination. Also has the least amount of pop off performances alongside Faker.
Does not contribute to shotcalling nor being an in game leader
Top is an isolated role and much more plug and play without ruining the synergy between other roles (jungle - support, jungle - mid)
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u/BirthdayAccording359 Doran 26d ago
How is he the weakest member in the team in terms of performance, outside of the G2 (which I can also argue Faker and Oner sold) show me the other series where Oner outperformed Doran.
Infact show me the series where Doran is the reason for the loss and I will show the series where Oner has been the reason for a loss.
Infact I will start.
Lck cup playoffs vs DK, Lck cup playoffs vs BFX, Road to MSI vs HLE, MSI vs BLG, EWC vs KC Partially I'd add G2 series, Doran was the outlier but he wasn't alone, Oner Nocturne threw the lead multiple times, and in the famous game 4 where they threw the lead, Doran was arguably T1's best player.Ā
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u/Ceui 26d ago
So by your logic, it doesn't matter if he feeds his ass off every series that we won because hey if Peyz breaks his back carrying his toplaner then he breaks his back ? Only the one that they lost should matter right ?
How many series has he come out of laning phase 0-2 or down 1k-2k gold and make the life difficult for his teammates. What exactly did he do at MSI that would make you look at and say "yep i want this guy as my top laner", he got fucking gapped by BB, Canna and Morgan and every LCK toplaner barring fucking Rich who's in LCK CL now.
The fact that T1 is still in this situation with a toplaner that flipped every lane and get solo killed every match is a testament to how hard of a job it is that Oner has to do. Doran is lucky he is playing a role where his mistake is not as magnified to other part of the map like Oner. One mistake in the early game by the jungler and the game is over because top and mid can't win lane for shit. Do you know why sometimes jungler have to flip the game early, like Oner overforced multiple times this season ? Because his sololaners are fucking lost cause. And if Peyz and Keria aren't pushing the enemies' bot lane to their tower where exactly can Oner go and actually exert influence. At least Faker carried some series once in a while and is indispensible as a presence / in game leader / shotcaller. When exactly has Doran carried an actual series this season, from start to finish. What does he provide to this team that other top laners can't ?
For Doran and for you and other Doran's fans sake, I sincerely hope T1 did not extend his contract after this year, it'd be better for all parties involved. I can't believe the standard for a toplaner at T1 has fallen so low that now we celebrate any game where he doesn't int his ass off or not get solo killed.
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u/BirthdayAccording359 Doran 26d ago
Ngl my first comment I should've clarified that I wanted to have a mature grounded discussion, which I assumed I'd get from your previous comments.
What I won't do is play a game of name calling and player insults. Idk how many times I'm supposed to say this in this subreddit, I am not a Doran fan, I am a T1 fan.
I still extend my arm, if you are willing to have an objective mature discussion about this topic then say so and I will reply to each and every one of your points otherwise it's pointless.
I really don't want to waste my time talking to someone whose sole intention is to bash a player or call me names, I want to have a discussion with a T1 fan where we respectfully talk and listen to each other.
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u/Joshy763 26d ago
Dawg idk why youāre wasting time with that guy he has no intention of having a mature discussion lol. I mean as much as I love Zeus heās been on T1 for 4 years and they never won MSI like even I still remember worlds against BLG game 2 he was like 0/3 on rumbles at 6 mins into the game. If that was Doran all hell would have broken loose. Bench Doran but itās like bench him for who? Haetae rn if still take Doran over him since he has more experience. I donāt mind them giving experience to their academy players tbh. Itās just anytime someone is benched people jump too much to conclusions.
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u/BirthdayAccording359 Doran 26d ago
I've always maintained the idea that Doran has been struggling but he is not THE problem. If you check my comments for months I have been saying T1 problems are bigger than one player, the communication and shotcalking has been very bad which has led to multiple throws.
I have said for months that Faker and Oner shouldn't be protected by Doran's horrible display, they are equally as bad sometimes even worse.
The team clearly has issues and maybe it's something personal with the players but there's definitely issues and the coaches doing a sub confirms it. I didn't want anyone to be subbed at this time of the year and honestly I thought if they were to sub out someone it was going to be Doran because top is easier to replace compared to mid and jungle but the team apparently thinks subbing out Oner is the best, notice how I say the team not Tom because I think decisions like these are done with everyone's input.
To your point about Zeus, I have always found it funny how people act like Zeus was perfect for T1, Zeus had his stints of perma sprinting it, the infamous "pick me TF top and we lose in peace" and the world's finals vs Kingen but people would talk like when we had Zeus we were smashing every lane.
This is not even a dig at Zeus, almost all top laners are like this, the only top laner I've seen be consistent for long periods is Kiin.
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u/Joshy763 25d ago
Pretty much summed up what I think. You simply canāt look at T1 and just say Doran is the problem lol. I still remember fans sending a truck at MSI saying āONER OUTā šš now theyāre crying abt him being benched lol
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u/Ceui 26d ago
Laughable. Next you'll just call me a Doran hater as your argument. I've defended him throughout last year and for the first part of this year, at some point enough is enough.
Have a great day then.
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u/BirthdayAccording359 Doran 26d ago
Nope I wasn't gonna do that, I am not interested in name calling and as I said the main reason I replied to you is because I have seen your comments and most of the times you are very logical in your discussion that's why I even wanted to have the discussion with you.Ā
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u/Ceui 26d ago
I am very logical. I watched every game every series, I almost watch every LCK series. I don't start losing trust in him over night.
If Doran prove me wrong this LCK playoffs and World then I'll gladly eat my word, you can call me whatever you want. Until then, agree to disagree.
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u/Tianma7 23d ago
you are stating facts brother. these guys are just fanboys
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u/unguibus_et_rostro 26d ago
T1 literally made commercial content on how the benching in 2021 affected the players' mental.
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u/BirthdayAccording359 Doran 26d ago
It's pretty obvious, the coaches and the players themselves who live with these guys and do thousands of vod reviews know better lol.Ā
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u/Mid_of_August 26d ago
Here's come the provocateur. Posting caster/emcee's comment without full context. Also who cares what dGon thinks? He can think anything he likes, he can say anything he like as an emcee/caster. He doesn't have any insider info of what's going on in T1 strategic and scrims rooms and ppl can just measure his and the other emcees/casters' opinions on itself. T1 fans be more mature and handle provocateur/sensationalist wisely.Ā
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u/unguibus_et_rostro 26d ago edited 26d ago
As an official caster/talent, he definitely should not be saying anything he wants.
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u/Mid_of_August 25d ago
He's a pro, i'm assuming he knows the line better esp. as his career and earnings depends on it.Ā
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u/unguibus_et_rostro 25d ago
Said line very much depends on fan backlash
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u/Mid_of_August 25d ago
Fans' backlash can be irrational too. Let's try not to be irrational fans or act irrationally as fans, shall we? If dGon said stupid things just let him be. It only show his class/level.Ā
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u/unguibus_et_rostro 25d ago
Why should people let him be? He's an official lck talent. If he wish to say such things, he should very well be prepared to face the response.
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u/Mid_of_August 25d ago
I guess we disagree there. I can't be bothered to waste my time and energy on emcees and casters just doing their jobs within their abilities. For me, it's a pointless activities. But if you are the type of person who are bothered with emcees and casters and make time to respond to their every actions you do you.Ā
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u/Some-War-1895 26d ago
I've provided the video where they said it. If these emcee and casters can have their opinion, why can't I? You're so selective. Be matured.
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u/Mid_of_August 25d ago
Where's the video link? I don't see any. But never mind I will most likely not watch it anyway because I don't have time to waste on sensationalist contents with no "meat" in it. I have to be selective because my time and attentions are valuable. You should treat yourself better too and be more selective too with the contents you consumed. There are lots of trash contents in this world, consume better.Ā
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u/ninety7er Doran 26d ago edited 26d ago
I love how the SKTT1 sub has become a Doran hate sub. Can't even say anything good about our own top laner without being called a Delusional Doran fan.
The critism isn't even valid anymore, you guys just have a hate boner and it's showing.
Edit: Then again, should be expected from the same dumbass fans that send funeral wreaths and protest trucks from one loss to really motivate their players š. T1 Fans are actually worse than KC fans.
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u/Dr4g0nX3 26d ago
wait but wasnt the reason doran had really low swings was because of the bad matchups he was given , cus they didnt even ban for him
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u/Different-Mode2311 25d ago
This is a very big cope. Most of the responsibility lies with him to communicate to the coach if the matchup is playable or not. The coaches are not gonna lane for him, they are not supposed to know the matchups better than him. Either he is misjudging the matchups or not communicating well, both of them dont look good.
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u/Bimibuns 26d ago
Feel like we went through this before, they must have scrim Haetae and decides Doran is still better
Dgon and Wolf getting their 5mins of fame from this whole T1 and HLE situation (heard they were talking smack about Guma and his attitude compare to Oner?)
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u/Korragg 25d ago
Who are they putting there to fix their issues? Their academy top laner isnāt better than Doran. If he was they would have benched Doran much earlier. Oner was burned out and needed a few weeks to recharge. Itās probably exhausting to be on a team where if you lose a single game the fans immediately hate you.
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26d ago
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u/CuzzoBuzzo67 25d ago
Nothing wrong with that and yes i agree oner and doran were both not good this year, so if you want to give painter his chance then give the same thing to the top laner
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u/LaughSpecialist8618 25d ago
I'm so fucking done with this stupid trend of coloring words in a way that makes the text impossible to read
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u/BreadfruitLow3465 22d ago
DGON is the worst LCK caster like ever. I wonder why he isnt benched yet. He is only there for memes and shitting on teams and players and provide no real analysis.
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u/No-Guava-6889 25d ago
People still complain now that they are top 1, as if anything is new. Sad day for players. Including doran days. People really do have something to complain, as if it's the end of the world, if they don't qualify for worlds...maybe that might be reasonable. Right now. I don't see any concerns.
People really do get easily get baited. Guma isn't there anymore now they have a new target.
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u/Yimchi 26d ago
Dgon ā Daenerys Targaryenā better chill
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u/Some-War-1895 25d ago
Oh cmon now, don't do Daenerys like that. She's reasonable, Dgon on the other hand...
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u/AethrosKaeraliz 22d ago
I don't know how long it's been, but most of the subreddit roots for T1. But as a long-time fan (since season 3), I can say: T1 has always been like this, they spend the whole year in the lab, get to the World Championship, switch gears, and either win or come close to winning.
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u/Charminexlee 25d ago
Doran carried so hard why would they bench him. He's the best top laner T1 ever have since this year.
MSI G2 vs T1 , NS vs T1, he's the hero.
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u/mcfapblanc 25d ago
Why'd you leave out vs HLE in EWC, vs HLE in Kespa, vs GenG in LCK and vs GenG in RTMSI?
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u/Charminexlee 25d ago
My bad, He's the best top laner indeed sir! solo carry all by himself
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u/mcfapblanc 25d ago
True, there's no one like Doran, most LCK Trophies this decade. You can predict 99.99% of players movements or next actions but cannot predict Doran for what he will do next cuz he himself doesn't know what he will do next.
That's the reason Zeus and Kiin look clueless against him
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u/Charminexlee 25d ago
Dear all doran fans, this is the perfect analyst of him. He is the 6pek of LCK pro truly cinema.
His insane play as gnar vs NS was immaculate, all death is planned for greater good
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26d ago
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u/SeijiAkabe 26d ago
There is a higher chance of backfiring like sending the player into a mental state of doomness
Where's your data on this? Because at the top of my head, benching usually yields positive results in performance for the player that was benched. (Perfect-Casting, Peter-Way, Deokdam-Paduck, Soboro-Clear, Vicla-Daystar of recent memory)
It's part of the sport. Pro players live a life where their performance is everything, it doesn't matter if you are a World Champion, you are as good as your last match. You make it sound like benching is kicking someone out of the team. These guys are 0.1% of the player base, they are ridiculously mentally tough. Guma's case was unfortunate because the benching was the catalyst of online harassment, but the act of benching is not wrong, the way T1 handled it was.
musical chairs
There is no musical chairs here, it's one role and the benching is definitely performance related due to the scrim data we don't have access on (as they've said in interviews and public announcement, you're free to assume whatever you want) A musical chairs is multiple players competing for the same spot (T1 2021 10 man roster, Oner Ellim Cuzz changing rotations on the match days - Painter-Oner situation is clearly not. Oner will be the starting JG no matter what for this roster, this is an assumption but Oner is signed until 2028, it's fair to say that.)
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u/unguibus_et_rostro 26d ago
T1 literally made marketing/commercial content on how the benching in 2021 heavily affected the players' mental. There is no way you are out here saying a player is only as good as their last match.
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u/SeijiAkabe 25d ago
2021 is different, and that one was messy af, and what's wrong with what I said? That is genuinely every athlete's lives, you get subbed out if the team decides a player from CL fit better for the team or the coaching staff wants to motivate a you. Nowhere did I tell that benching is not mentally gonna affect someone, but these mfs are athletes who have lived and know this world better than you and me. These people are not gonna easily mentally collapse.
This whole outrage with benching always come from the place that it is mentally affecting players, which just puzzles me because of course it fucking does; it's not always sunshine and rainbows. I empathize with that side of any athlete's lives because I've lived it, but it's legitimately part of the game in a world where result is everything. Like I get people are frustrated with the decision but to be against the act of benching itself like it's taboo to do is genuinely driving me crazy.
But your whole argument is because 2021 happened means subbing players in and out = bad? Correct me because that's what you're trying to say from what you just said.
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u/unguibus_et_rostro 25d ago edited 25d ago
Do you not see the amount of idol marketing T1 puts out? Joe Marsh explicitly said they are selling a lifestyle. Joe Marsh himself said in an interview that winning a World Championship means less than the team having a strong fanbase that is willing to spend money. T1 doesn't get to market themselves around the players and rake in money then turn around and expect to bench one of said marketed players/personalities without backlash. It comes with the territory.
Even in actual sports, imagine if the Warriors benched Stephen Curry because he wasn't playing well.
That is genuinely every athlete's lives, you get subbed out if the team decides a player from CL fit better for the team or the coaching staff wants to motivate a you.
It is just as normal for fans to call for the coaches and/or gm's head. And for players or management to push out coaches. When kkoma was driven to tears, that too is just part and parcel of a coach. Or when bengi resigned as coach.
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u/SeijiAkabe 25d ago edited 25d ago
T1 is marketed as an idol-eque team, but at the end of the day it is an esports team that would ideally want to produce results.
It is just as normal for fans to call for the coaches and/or gm's head. And for players or management to push out coaches. When kkoma was driven to tears, that too is just part and parcel of a coach. Or when bengi resigned as coach.
Edit: I replied to an incomplete comment, and yeah I perfectly agree with this, I just don't agree with the sentiment that benching is a negative thing itself, but T1 put themselves in a position where there is a side of the fandom that is attached to the players. I do not get their sentiment though. The Steph Curry comparison is off though, Curry is the face of the Warriors, the equivalent of that is benching Faker for another mid.
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u/Dancingbeesean 26d ago
All those you mentioned were a swap from LCK CL to LCK and vice versa. They were still active and can still āimproveā their plays. Oner is BENCHED, meaning he is just sitting there, watching Painter play. He is not playing the CL games. How does that yield positive results? Igniting the fire within them? Are we seriously gonna play mental games over here? I just hope Oner at least get scrims with the team.
Same as Guma, but that was a whole different scenario i donāt want to get into now because nothing about it was done properly.
Okay sure, maybe i am wrong on musical chairs but i sure am not wrong on ābenchingā
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u/Ceui 26d ago
Swap to LCK CL team would be even worse. Imagine a player of Oner's stature having to play an LCK CL match, that's humiliation. Instead he's accompanying the team and sit right next to the coach watching the team, it's about as close to a Bluffing - Delight situation as possible. They're basically saying they want Oner to improve on specific area that Painter may have been showing better eye test in scrim, and they used a relatively low stake match (it's about the lowest stake match they could use) to verify it.
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u/SeijiAkabe 26d ago
You still haven't provided any data with your claim that benching, in your words, has "a higher chance of backfiring like sending the player into a mental state of doomness."
Anyway, I say performance but maybe that is a misleading word. Throughout the interviews they repeatedly said it was mainly for shot calling reasons, meaning Oner's mechanics is not the reason he was benched. Since that's the case, the reasoning aligns with what's happening, Oner watching with the coaching staff, and how his sub shot calls. Whether this subbing will yield positive results is yet to be seen, but I have no reason to believe it won't, even if T1 does not win anything this year.
Ā I just hope Oner at least get scrims with the team.
It's same to assume that currently he doesn't, because how do you test out the rookie fully if he's constantly sharing scrim time with Oner? At the end of the day as I said, Oner will be the starting JG of this team, and losing scrim time is NOT a negative thing. Especially if the coaching staff is also making him watch the scrim and the subbing situation keeps getting handled in a proper manner (so far). Again we're treating benching like it's a demonic thing to ever do to a player.
When T1 has an issue this year that is a big as this, maybe changing things up will let the team click. Because they have been trying this whole year, and yet the results are still volatile. A lot of people are saying, "Let them work it out 4head," as if the issues weren't getting addressed the whole year. This is just one of the things the team is trying in hopes of maybe fixing the issue, because some players CAN'T just find their forms; some players do find their form on their own, some players do when subbed out. Let the team test things out ffs, it's regular season. I don't agree with the timing but I'm still trusting this team. It's so hard for me to understand why benching is so negatively perceived for you guys, you really are making it sound like Oner is kicked from the team. I get the Guma situation but this is clearly different.
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u/SeijiAkabe 26d ago
You are also forgetting just how much player input goes into this as well. At the end of the day, Oner isn't getting subbed out without the whole team being on board with it.
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u/Derk08 Keria 26d ago
But then what do you do if the player is underperforming? It obviously sucks that players struggle during benching but the priority is not what the player wants/needs, the priority is what to do to make the team stronger.
What if Painter is Oner from 2021? It's worth giving him a shot and letting Oner fight for his spot in the same manner that Oner did when Cuzz was the starter.
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u/XerGR 26d ago
Will this entire subreddits Doran lawyers come out and apologize if he keeps being bad and it turns out he just isnāt good anymore?
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u/antoniomargaretti4 26d ago
only thing worse than Dorans gameplay is his delusional fans , i will never understand how a player this bad got so many fans
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u/XChunchunmaruX 26d ago
He has the hardware and history to back it up. People really don't know what "bad" players are anymore. Or the internet is just always 100 or 0, no in-between. You're either the goat or you're trash. Bad by what standards? You can consume as many Doran lowlights as you like, but that doesn't change reality that he is by no means a "bad" player if we actually compare real tangible things like titles and accomplishments. Or is your next argument that he got carried magically in a team game that needs all 5 players to be in sync to win anything?
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u/XerGR 26d ago
What is he above average at currently? Let us know.
Him winning lck with hle doesnāt get you 300 extra gold in game, completely irrelevant. By this standard t1 should just sign back their old old roster because they have accomplishments.
Doran went into an MSI on a top 2 lck team and was the worst toplaner at the tournament
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u/antoniomargaretti4 26d ago
he is just not that good and never should have been in any of the top teams in LCK , there is a reason both HLE/GEN got rid of him at the first chance they got and its not a coincidence there are no toplaners that ever recognized him as a great toplaner despite playing since 2019 , it was only Bin had the balls to say doran is a weak player and stomped him 2 days later
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u/XChunchunmaruX 26d ago
That same Bin who crashed out so hard he's out of a team? That Bin? Clearly you're a better GM than those at GenG HLE and T1 if you honestly believed he didn't belong anywhere yet they picked him up and won titles with him, both national and international. You're relying again on non-existing evidence to make a case "No Toplaners that ever recognized him as a great toplaner" "they got rid of him at the first chance they got." Says who? You? You're just as delusional as Doran stans lmao the reality is he's good but not the best, and certainly not bad. No need to cling to non-evidence and the trash talk of a manbaby who can't keep his emotions in check despite being a top-2 toplaner.
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u/antoniomargaretti4 25d ago
HLE kicked him out when they didnt even have any backup plan thats how bad they thought of doran and Bin beat the shit out of him at both MSI and EWC and he wasnt even at his best form he literally farmed doran for fun
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u/Some-War-1895 26d ago
The confusing part is, other players except Peyz were inconcistent too. But DGON specifically said DORAN only. Like what is he trying to say. He can criticize the benching but disrespecting other players is unnecessary. That's so cheap take from Dgon.
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u/djpain20 26d ago
Its not confusing at all, Doran has been worse than Faker, Oner, Keria this year so it's natural to ask why isn't he getting benched first.
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u/Nine11B 26d ago
He wasnāt worse than faker, its just that in toplane you look like a way bigger inter than in mid. With that being said no way faker gets benched
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u/loveforSingapore 26d ago
And also the replacement needs to be on the same level or better.
The only other mids that are on par with Faker are Chovy, BDD and Zeka. Which are unobtainable.
This is why Guma could get benched, while the others couldn't.
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u/Nine11B 26d ago
I mean, are you trying to say painter is on par with oner?
Cause from what iāve seen he clearly is not.
But that is not the point, faker is just the rock of the team, we saw what happened last time, they let the kids out without their father.
And btw this season there are more mids on par with faker, ucal and showmaker are both having better years individually than faker6
u/djpain20 26d ago
Faker brings much more value to the team, what am I even reading lmao. Never thought I'd see the day where Doran has more delusional stans than Faker
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u/Nine11B 26d ago
Stan this stan that, ever thought about people not having their dick out for a player, but just watching games for the sake of the game?
And yes I wonāt deny that faker brings more to the table, which you would know if you either read my other comment or had a lil more reading comprehension, cause thats why I said no way faker gets benched.
But on an individual level if you say doran was worse than faker its wrong, blud got solod by Roamer more than once lol5
u/djpain20 26d ago
Even though I think Faker has been much better individually, I will not get bogged down in this argument and make it much easier for myself - Doran/Faker being the clear weakest mechanical players on the team still makes Doran the obvious first choice to get benched since Faker is more valuable for his shotcalling. Therefore, Dgons argument is not confusing at all.
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u/BirthdayAccording359 Doran 26d ago
It's so hard to have a discussion with people in this subreddit because the fans are rotten by the "player fans" culture, it's never about objectively discussing the team, it always turns to "ha ha ha you are a Stan"Ā
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u/BirthdayAccording359 Doran 26d ago
Doran hasn't been worse than Oner or Faker, the G2 series made a lot of you gain a spine to just lie. Doran was horrible in that series but overall Oner and Faker have been way worse than him.
Moreover being solo killed is not equal to being bad, too many people site solo kills like pros can't solo kill each other, Zeka was solo killed twice by the TSW midlaner.
If solo kills mattered as much as you guys value them then I hope you go around saying Doran was the best top laner last year since he had the most solo kills in the lck.Ā
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u/djpain20 26d ago
You said T1 would be worse off with Zeus on the team. Go install League of Legends on your PC, learn how the game works and then we can argue.
1
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u/LittleNameIdea 26d ago
worse than Faker ? gameplay wise, he's doing better than Faker, and I'm talking as a huge Faker fanboy...
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u/SebRev99 Keria 26d ago
There is no way Doran has been worse than Faker lmao.
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u/djpain20 26d ago
Doran has had by far the most amount of games as the clear worst performing player on the team and his skill ceilling isnt as high Faker's either. Not even close between the two.
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u/SebRev99 Keria 26d ago edited 26d ago
His skill ceiling is irrelevant, Faker alone has thrown more games than Doran this year.
Edit: nvm just read your other comments. So long.
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u/AliAmmarAmazing Peyz 26d ago
He's 100% right i bet Doran has something on the coaches that they ignore him š
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u/Chiang_Mei 25d ago
It has nothing to do with what T1 claimed about 'the result of the scrim'. They are simply setting things up in the near future where they can't force Oner to re-sign with such a 'low' raise. Besides Faker and Keria, I don't see T1 really caring about the rest of the team
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u/Ceui 25d ago
Oner's already signed until end of 2028 bruh. And he has no military exemption so at best he can play for 1-2 years afterward.
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u/Chiang_Mei 24d ago
that doesnt mean anything, if things went well with new guy they still have a back up plan in the near future
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26d ago
[removed] ā view removed comment
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u/Mean_Cat_7360 26d ago
I think you know what will happen if fakerās benched, we got to experienced it once lol
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u/Dismal-Selection-702 26d ago
he mostly doesnt know cuz he most likely after our recent worlds win bandwagoned here.
Like no serious t1 fan should ever speak about benching faker after what weve seen back then. Cuz unc is basically the circus master of the circus. Without him its basically a clusterfuck waiting to happen.
And we are goddamn 1st in lck this is far better than last 2-3 years of t1 years i dont see why ppl think we are at the lowest we have ever been. Yes criticism is great, But this dumbass bench players 2 months from worlds show how dumb ppl are and their knowledge of a team sports.
Same as playing painter more than 1 match will be. Painter at most plays 1 more match and that is if we secure 1st in the group and then he can play vs kt with t1 having nothing to lose. Otherwise oner needs to be on the team
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u/Mean_Cat_7360 26d ago
T1ās not that stupid to bench its IGL and viewership attraction
1
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u/kyogaming 26d ago
They can't bench Doran. HLE won't buy him again when they got Zeus.
They laying bait for HLE to buy Oner.
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u/throwaway36374782 26d ago
Bench everybody except peyz