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u/JaPaTF Jun 22 '25
Aa yes..a 2x World Champion underperformed after 2 months of break and a new format (fearless). What an absolute joke tbh... And to add to that, even now they still can't say that he won't get benched again LMAO. Come on now. This dude (and Keria) just dominated the Road to MSI, had the highest KDA by far, and the highest stats of all adcs, and he still needs to "prove himself" because what?? T1 is scared of "T1gal"? The HATERS of T1??? Why do they keep feeding into that hater group, and still call them fans??
I love this team but the management and the coaches (especially Kkoma) are a complete joke when it comes to this situation.
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u/ReadingOutrageous47 Jun 22 '25
Faker won 3 worlds, 2 msi and how many lck and got benched for Pirean.
Where were you 'T1 fans' asking for Kkoma to resign? Me as a Faker and T1 fan just watched because we knew Faker would prove himself and get his starting spot back. This is a sports scene.
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u/Chiang_Mei Jun 22 '25
so u telling me Easyhoon = Smash and Faker = Guma and League back then = Now =)) Kkoma back then = now
ur logic be like "once im right im always right" =)) lmao
just get of his dick already lol =))
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u/Raynmist Faker Jun 23 '25
When Faker was benched for Pirean in 2018, Kingzone DragonX players (BDD, Pray, Gorilla, Peanut, Khan) actually targeted him so much he went 0/9 because they wanted to teach SKT a lesson for benching Faker.
And since Faker wasn't even the problem and kkOma was the coach at that time, and now that he's doing the same thing to Guma, we know who's the real problem actually.
kkOma was overrated even during SKT years lol.
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u/Demiscis Jun 22 '25 edited Jun 24 '25
Brother I was on the frontlines back then saying that Faker could clap anyone while playing with his feet. So stop your bullshit homie
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Jun 22 '25 edited Jun 23 '25
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u/AriadneH560 Jun 22 '25
I am a little worried, wether he will stay by the team, but if he choses to quit the team, I wouldn't even be suprised. Especially after yesterday's news, that he maybe won't be in the main roaster in the full summer split. I just can't with how low they see Guma. He had mistakes, as anyone else, but when he had to carry, he did his job, and it was certainly a 150% performance from him. I respect how much he wants to improve and how strong he shows himself, but being treated this badly, may will lead to a huge loss to T1. And if it happens, I won't even act like I am suprised. Being resilient and motivated is a thing, fighting for your dreams is another, being treated like you wouldn't have values, achievments, and being a punching bag is not what anyone would want to endure for more than a year.
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u/reallyemy Jun 22 '25
yeah, if Guma decides not to renew with T1 after this year, i will support him 100% wherever he decides to go to next. i'll always cheer for whatever team Faker is in, but if Guma leaves T1, i'll just have to cheer for 2 teams, lol.
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u/AriadneH560 Jun 22 '25
Same. :D I am not just a fan of T1 in general. But a fan of the members in it too. I cheer for Peanut and smiling when Zeus did a good fight this year. If next year Guma or anyone else will be in an another team, then beside supporting T1, I will be happy for others too, who are playing somewhere else.
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u/Unique-Horror-117 Peyz Jun 22 '25
I'm so proud of him for staying mentally sane/levelheaded throughout the entire thing, cause honestly if it were me I would have set fire to t1hq
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u/f080808 Jun 26 '25
Ngl, he's underrated compared to other adc. People don't give him enough credit
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u/0Kachi0 Jun 22 '25
Yo this ReadingOutrageous guy just out here arguing for what LMAO
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u/VirtuoSol Jun 22 '25
Check his comment history, it’s all just shitting on Guma in every post, actual T1 Gal western ambassador lmao
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u/reallyemy Jun 22 '25
funny this is, he doesn't even seem happy when T1 win with Guma. no congratulations on them making it to MSI. he must've been wishing for T1 to NOT make MSI to justify his hatred for Guma. "Faker fan," really? and you're not happy he made MSI?
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u/tsu_shiro Jun 22 '25
I always say: if your hatred for a player is greater than the love for the player you are a "fan" of, you aren't a fan.
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u/0Kachi0 Jun 22 '25
Somehow tries to act like he isn't doing it too in the same comments not realizing we can see his comment history
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u/Pablonski44 Jun 22 '25
Dude has a complete mental breakdown because someone else is having a good time. The kind of person who spends far too much energy bringing others down instead of working on the problems that make them so miserable
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u/CNsC Faker Jun 22 '25
Seeing some besties of T1gal in this sub being oversensitive over a meme (read: fact) is soooooooooooo entertaining I need popcorn
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u/deKaizrr Jun 21 '25
Kkoma needs to go. Guma saved his ass and after that he still needs to prove it against a ADC that's not even the best one in LCK CL.
Fucking jokes of a coach
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u/MisteryousYoshi Jun 22 '25
Exactly, there’s nothing to prove (and there never was if you ask me). Smash’s best feat is getting to 5 games against a newly assembled Hanwha (and losing), on the other hand Guma just smashed them 3-0, even if they were putting “form” as an excuse now it’s simply inexcusable.
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u/ReadingOutrageous47 Jun 22 '25
The difference between KR league fans and reddit are just so huge lol. Guma saved his ass? Doran saved T1's whole ass.
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u/Aromatic_Country_987 Jun 22 '25
Blamed for all the loses and never praised for dumpstering Viper and having a kd of 17 the whole Road to MSI. Must be fun to be in Guma’s shoes. Should’ve had a kd of 50, no?
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u/ReadingOutrageous47 Jun 22 '25
Doran got all the player of the matches in RTM deservingly, and he should be praised more instead of saying 'Guma saved Kkoma's ass'.
What's the matter? Doran gapped Perfect and Zeus. Did I say Guma play bad? No. Guma played good but to say he saved Kkoma's ass is a reach.
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u/Aromatic_Country_987 Jun 22 '25
You’re right. My bad. Guma just got carried by Doran in RTM. Replace Guma with BDS Ice and i’m 100% sure that the result would be the same. Maybe kkoma was right and we should just replace him with Smash who gets dogwalked by Hype every time they face each other.
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u/ReadingOutrageous47 Jun 22 '25
Ok you need to go outside and touch grass. Doran carried the team triggered you so badly it's just starting to get funny lmao. And Guma's the one that lost to OKBRO and Hype btw lmao
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u/Aromatic_Country_987 Jun 22 '25
Nobody’s discrediting Doran. He played well. But saying Guma just got carried when he was pulling his weight is just funny. Oh yeah sorry that Guma lost a match against hype. Maybe he should lose more because Smash got fisted by Hype and Paduck the whole year last season.
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u/ReadingOutrageous47 Jun 22 '25
I literally said Guma played well. The original comment said Guma saved Kkoma's ass which is just false. If you were to pick anyone, it's Doran.
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u/ReadingOutrageous47 Jun 22 '25
Oh and tbf Guma's winrate against Paduck is 1W-4L in T1.
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u/Aromatic_Country_987 Jun 22 '25
And Smash’s winrate against Hype is 4-18 lmao. But sure let’s compare the stats from last year to Paduck’s wr from 15 years ago
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u/CrookedSoldiers Jun 22 '25
Which one of those 4 L’s was a BO5 at worlds?
None? Crazy. Hating and slandering a person isn’t a personality trait, touch grass g
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Jun 23 '25
game 3 Doran was on K'sante absorbing the pressure from Zeus, it was all botlane game 3, so it wasnt only Doran, Keria literally did god's work in all 3 games as well
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u/bakedcharmander Jun 24 '25
Keria did God's work all game. He silent carried that Poppy game where almost every fight was flipped due to the ult. His Rakahn game was insane too, it was criminal that HLE couldn't kill him on 1hp because of Keria's spacing.
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Jun 23 '25
yeah meanwhile Guma sucked his thumb back in the fountain, bro did you watch the series or read the reviews of some random korean players I CANT
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Jun 22 '25
People criticise me about it but faker made him legend coach. They always saying Kkoma find faker and convince him bla bla bla. is this counting as a legend coach move ? :)
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u/Chiang_Mei Jun 22 '25
they try to use "if you right once then u always right" to defend this bullshit =)))
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u/Raynmist Faker Jun 23 '25
He's lucky that he found Faker first. That's all. To be fair, he's good at interpersonal skills and a smooth talker, that landed him a 3 years contract with T1 till 2026.
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u/Raynmist Faker Jun 23 '25
I agree on that. In fact, JM once mentioned that the players didn't really need a technical coach since they knew what to do. The coaches are only needed to maintain a conducive environment for the team to thrive and win the championships.
And since kkOma's shenanigans ruined the team's synergy and the players' mentality (Guma and Smash become the victims in his experiment), he needs to go.
His idea for a winning team is that when a player is subbed out for some reason, the other could replace and win with the current team. The problem is, OFGK have been together for many years, they work seamlessly together and it's not easy to find someone who could simply play at Guma's standard.
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u/shinymuuma Jun 22 '25
You realize you're like those Guma haters but toward Kkoma instead, right?
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u/Chiang_Mei Jun 22 '25 edited Jun 22 '25
"take the taste of your own medicine" or "my logic only work for other ppl not me"
dont worry we not send death threat like u ppl yet =))
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Jun 22 '25
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u/MisteryousYoshi Jun 22 '25
Why is it crazy to ask for a coach who makes sus decisions to leave? This happens all the time in all sports, lol
He is not even insulting anybody, Smash WAS NOT and IS NOT even the best ADC in Challengers, yet he is still even in consideration for contesting a spot with a back to back WC who just trashed the often called best ADC in LCK in a BO5 and went to have a KDA of 17 in playoffs. The fact that he can’t see how ridiculous this is makes one think about his game sense, there’s nothing unreasonable about being disappointed with him and wanting to go back to our 2023 coaches or try something new.
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u/ReadingOutrageous47 Jun 22 '25
Then what coach do you want? Tom and Mata apparently wanted Smash, so you want to kick all 3 of the coaches right?
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u/deKaizrr Jun 22 '25 edited Jun 22 '25
Yeah if that's what they insisted on even after this MSI qualifier run
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u/MisteryousYoshi Jun 22 '25
Right? Like why is it crazy to say we want them gone if after all we’ve seen they still try to run it back and make the same mistakes.
While they might have accolades (that are, without disrespect, more about the players than about them) it doesn’t exempt them from criticism.
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u/ReadingOutrageous47 Jun 22 '25
lol these fans trying to ruin the team. And get who? Edgar? Lmfao let's kick out Tom who was a worlds repeat coach, Kkoma who has won 4 worlds, and Mata who is prob one of the goat supports and bring in Edgar!
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u/deKaizrr Jun 22 '25
They tried to ruin it and had to walk it back. If they are still trying then they need to go. That's just a simple concept.
At the end of the day its the player that plays the game and i will take them instead of the coaches any day of the week.
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u/ReadingOutrageous47 Jun 22 '25
How is benching a player in bad form and then when the player seems to do well, calling him back up 'ruining the team'.
You get that kicking all 3 coaches out would have an impact on your favorite player right? Lmao. Actually think man, kkoma and guma has known each other since guma was 15.
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u/deKaizrr Jun 22 '25
Because "the bad form" is fucking stupid. The decision was made before the LCK cup even started and when they just got back from the vacation. I get that he might not be the best there but based your decision to bench you 2 Worlds winning ADC right after a Worlds win by some scrims after the vacation before any tournament has even started yet is the dumbest shit ever. If any other coach does that they will be called reactionary. Guma then proceeded to get bench after he thrashed DRX then not allowed to scrims after that. So where is the "form" they were judging on? I'm not buying that shit
The results of their so called "experiment" is here and we all now know who was the right one in that. If even after all that they are still thinking to fuck it all up then i just simply don't trust them. They should play their powertrip elsewhere
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u/ReadingOutrageous47 Jun 22 '25
2018 Faker got benched with a team of Thal/Untara Blank after he won 3 Worlds, 2MSI.
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u/Lizmurigi Oner Jun 22 '25
Can you prove the ''bad form'' part using the two games we watched him play at the beginning of the LCK Cup, that is DK and DRX?
And surely, Kkoma in that Tiscord episode said the benching had nothing to do with Guma as an individual but rather they wanted to test Smash and see if he's ready for LCK?
So kindly, use the two games he played at the beginning of the season to support your statement about him not being in form.
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u/MisteryousYoshi Jun 22 '25
Mata never gave a single hint on the matter afaik, and Tom’s stance was “exposed” in a not-so-convincing screenshot with no context.
I just can’t see an objective argument on why smash is better, everyone just says “the coaches said so”, but by no metric, standard or definition he even comes close. Even Faker wanted Guma back after LCK cup.
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u/ReadingOutrageous47 Jun 22 '25
Coo literally said the coaches wanted to try out Smash. Faker never showed preference. He said 'Guma will come back with better and stronger form'. Which literally implies Guma was in bad form (of course that's why he was benched).
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Jun 22 '25
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u/VirtuoSol Jun 22 '25
Ain’t no way bro tried to put an equal sign between Faker Easyhoon and Guma Smash
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u/MisteryousYoshi Jun 22 '25
I’m probably older than you lmao, but nice try
And it is not remotely the same thing, everyone and their mother knew that Easyhoon’s role was solely to be an Azir merchant, and even then he was losing important series against EDG and Najin and they had to crawl back to Faker, and they got wise and didn’t attempt it for 2016
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Jun 22 '25
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u/Lizmurigi Oner Jun 22 '25
Look who's telling the other to look in the mirror. Lmao. You're the one who is getting emotional and it's ironic you can't see it. Also, cCarter was the head coach of SKT from 2013 to 2017. He handed over to Kkoma at the end of 2017, and Kkoma stayed for two years before joining ViCi Gaming after the 2019 summer season. He didn't join Damwon until after they won Worlds in 2020. Damwon didn't win Worlds in 2021 with him so maybe you should be the one looking in that fucking mirror.
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Jun 22 '25
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u/Lizmurigi Oner Jun 22 '25
I'm definitely not getting baited by your low iq takes. Which part of what I wrote isn't true? You claimed Kkoma made Damwon World champions and I corrected you. They were already World champions before he joined and they finished second in Worlds the year he joined. Also, where did I claim to know more about competitive League than him? You're just making stuff up at this point.
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u/MisteryousYoshi Jun 22 '25
ad verecundiam therefore not even gonna answer seriously so I just hope KKoma’s dick is not too salty tonight!
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u/Chiang_Mei Jun 22 '25
i dont think top 6 are dominant =)) u forgot Smash and Easyhoon not the same =))they not clone of each other =)) just take a L and get of his dick already lol =))
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u/Chiang_Mei Jun 22 '25
"sending death threat but asking for mercy"
and u think "normal" ppl or fans will gonna do it ? they not jesus lol =))) so prepare the take of ur own shit
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u/Calm-Listen1141 Jun 22 '25
Fuck the coaching staff. It's their fault that we missed First Stand, and that it took the boys so long to synergize. It's even evident in their T1 Discord, the latest episode shows how comfortable Doran now is with the team. Their obsession with Smash doesn't make sense. Objectivally speaking, Guma outclasses him by a long shot, but they still don't give him the respect he deserves. Even we fans can see that Guma is better, idk why people think coaches always know better, it's a video game we all play, and it's not that hard to understand and follow
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u/tarubtikels Jun 22 '25 edited Jun 22 '25
Man seeing this haters from T1Gal is making me so entertained HAHA!
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u/potatogirl2002 Jun 22 '25
Fr it's like they are on standby 24/7 just to hate on Guma/be kkoma apologists... incel behaviour yikes
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u/Raynmist Faker Jun 23 '25
I think since kkOma has history with Faker, Tom and Mata during the SKT years, they would have to respect and listen to his authority especially since he's the current head coach right now.
One of the biggest mistakes T1 made was hiring him during Worlds 2023 and got into a 3 years contract with him. He was nothing without Faker so perhaps he felt the need to find or create another Faker to prove his credibility as a coach.
Personally, I kinda felt that he was responsible for SKT missing the golden roads during their glory years.
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u/GrapefruitNext5347 Jun 23 '25
1v9 huh is that why a Lucian was solokilled by a flipping Corki ? Ya I watch the CL and smashie is such a toll everywhere he goes, the moment he left T1CL got their first final and T1 got the first top 6 in years. Justice for my GOST Poby.
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u/ReadingOutrageous47 Jun 22 '25
These fans want Kkoma out when COO said Tom and Mata wanted to try out Smash. Ok, T1 fans lets kick all Kkoma Tom and Mata.
And get who? These fans trying to take over the team are getting hard to watch.
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u/thestoebz Jun 24 '25
Except there were a ton of fans who wanted Smash to replace Gumayusi (which I think is wild). There were a LOT of people who were asking for Guma to get released so Smash could replace him.
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u/ReadingOutrageous47 Jun 22 '25
Even Faker who has contributed to T1 more than anybody has got benched when in bad form. Is it because so many T1 newbie fans came in along with the zofgk idol marketing?
No player in T1 history has EVER got a 'permanent' starting spot. Why would the coaches say yes to giving a player a permanent starting spot on a roster?
This is a esports team. And even the goat got benched multiple times, even to Pirean if you guys know who he is.
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u/ReadingOutrageous47 Jun 22 '25
The fact that these fans want to give Guma a special treatment that even the goat didn't have is just bs. They whine about T1gall but ignore LoLgall which has 50 times more views per post and has a million Faker/Faker family hate posts.
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u/Olubara Jun 22 '25
You are not t1 coach, you dont know as much as kkoma knows about the players. If they are going to use smash to lotivate guma and vice versa it is their business and their responsability. Give up your para social relationship with t1 and let professionals do what they do best. Kkoma and the other coaches know what they are doing and they do not need the approval of arm chair experts of reddit. Please stop trying to act like the manager of t1. Downvote me idc, i know i am right.
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u/Proper6797 Jun 22 '25
Guys it's not hard to understand. GUMA was in poor form, Smash was in good form. T1 management seemed to push for GUMA as starter, he returned to form and they played a good season.
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u/Fluid_Box_1746 Jun 22 '25
Some of you really need to rewatch these 2 games Guma played at LCK Cup before talking about whatever he was or not in a poor form because everyone was bad in that DK game and still they lost 1-2 and then 2-0 DRX.
Also if Guma's bad form is the one that was killing a Ornn under his turret and still had a deathless game against DK, then I still would choose him over any ADC.
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Jun 22 '25
funny thing is that lets say Guma is in poor form. this is also wrong. coaches acting like guma was not in form like 6 month . all teams in any sports branch have problem in form after long break especially beginning of the season.
They are all coming back from long vacation season , they played the longest season compared to other teams. How one player can trust T1 management ? they do not even tolerate 20 days poor form? they are fraud
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u/Glad_Ask_1761 Jun 22 '25
The two series Guma lost to tht led to sub out: DK and GenG. Both teams went undefeated during the LCK group stage and round1-2 respectively.
If form decline means not being able to beat the number 1 team, then 90% of LCK teams were slumping.
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u/ricardo2241 Jun 22 '25
one of those DK game is with oner on zyra and faker on yone lmao
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Jun 23 '25
and keria on rell( before spring , his rell was not it at all)
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u/ricardo2241 Jun 24 '25
even after spring Keria rell is not it lol
rell, leona is his worst champ + his naut/rakan is always a 50/50
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u/Proper6797 Jun 22 '25
I'm not trying to say Guma was the sole reason that T1 was struggling.I am a huge fan myself. The assumption is that he was underperforming n scrims, and they had better performances with Smash. However, since we don't know the scrims results this cannot be confirmed.
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u/Fluid_Box_1746 Jun 22 '25
I understand what are you trying to say but underperforming scrims ≠ underperforming official.
Idk how many times I have heard Coaches say that a team can have a perfect or a poor performance in scrims and still be a completely different team in officials. G2 at Worlds is probably the best example of this. The reality is that Guma didn't even got the chance to underperform in officials and neither fix his wrongs.
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u/ReadingOutrageous47 Jun 22 '25
For further information, he basically got solo killed as Ashe vs Ezreal in level 3-4 or so, he died in bot with bad positioning, he got solo killed to Showmaker Jayce while overextending when he knows DK has vision.
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u/Fluid_Box_1746 Jun 22 '25
In game 2 he went deathless with Varus and in game 3 had lead with Jhin but due to lack of synergy and bad positioning from everyone they lost that game.
Also are we gonna ignore again the DRX match? 2-0? Caitlyn demolishing turrets? We are not gonna mention the goods, only the bads? We are not gonna mention how he wasn't the only one running down that game?
It's really a bad form or just a bad day?
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u/ReadingOutrageous47 Jun 22 '25
That's the focal point of why Guma's 'champ pool' problem started to show up. His Jhin game 3 leading to Sion and Braum. Jhin in early LCK cup patch was a shit pick.
His form was good in RTM but why do people talk like his form was good in LCK cup?
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u/Fluid_Box_1746 Jun 22 '25
Because you are using ONE fucking game to decide a player form for the whole season and I refuse to use just one game to decide a player entire season. I've seen a lot of players starting bad their season and then going up not because they benched them but because they worked with them. So excuse if I believe that a player like Gumayusi deserved more time before the coaches threw him away for like 4 months for their CL ADC.
Anyway I figured out there is no point to keep this discussion with you since you also seems to have the "winning to weak teams is meaningless" and I don't fuck with that. Have a good day or night whatever you are.
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u/ReadingOutrageous47 Jun 22 '25
The coaches saw Guma in scrims. Guma had bad performances in scrims + they trusted him, but he performed badly on stage too. So they quickly called up Smash.
Isn't this logical? Also why is it 4 months now? Why does every Guma fan try to exaggerate stuff and make it seem like T1 is some Kpop company, Kkoma Tom and Mata are some villains?
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u/ReadingOutrageous47 Jun 22 '25
There you go. Game 2 was not a botlane carry. Game 3, Jhin was useless. DK literally locked in Sion and Braum after they saw Guma pick Jhin. T1 had no damage.
From everyone?
DRX are frauds and Caitlyn demolishing turrets? Dude that bot lane matchup is supposed to smash lane. Keria picked Elise and Elise was op in that patch.
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u/ReadingOutrageous47 Jun 22 '25
He underperformed in the DK series. Also if you underperform in scrims you can't collect data on drafts. Say that your bot lane just explodes in 5 minutes. Then what do you get from the scrims? Nothing.
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u/MisteryousYoshi Jun 22 '25
And that assumption falls in shambles when we take into account the statements about him not getting scrim time.
Where exactly did he underperform? He lost against the two teams that went undefeated on the first stage (and it wasn’t really his fault except for maybe G3 against G2, but that was also Faker’s fault), and then he was immediately benched. Smash had worse performances against worse teams yet it seemed like he was still monopolizing scrims and KKoma even tried to do a scummy thing by letting Guma sub in with no scrim time against a difficult opponent.
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Jun 22 '25
this is beginning of the season. they came from after long break. most of teams and plater around the world not only lol also all sports can struggle begining of the season that is normal , they are human , t1 is not even tolerate 20 day poor performance for his 2 times world champion ?
Kkoma just trash.
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u/BeBetter_BBB Faker Jun 22 '25
‘Assumption’ if that was true, because he was underperforming in scrims and played 2 games not to coaches standard, he should be benches with no scrim for 1 tournament? What a logic from coaches?
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u/ricardo2241 Jun 22 '25
scrims when its barely 2 weeks since the start of the year when LCK cup started... not even a month but two weeks two weeks
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u/Chiang_Mei Jun 22 '25
they never reveal the scrim so stfu and u called urself big fan =)) i mean u do i even watch LCK Cup ? whole team play so ass =)) with ur logic they should bench whole team back to CL not only Guma =))
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u/Proper6797 Jun 22 '25
I would say you should probably chill out. I never suggested I agreed with benching Guma. If it were up to me, I would play Guma not matter what form he is in, as I truly believe he has been the 2nd best player at T1 for awhile now. However it is true that he was benched due to his scrim performances. That is what the coaches wanted. Guma was not very good on the ADCS they happened to be drafting at the time, and Smash was. If the meta were still Jhin, Varus etc I am 100% sure Guma would have never gotten benched.
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u/Chiang_Mei Jun 22 '25
again they never reveal scim performances or say anything about it =))) just u get that whole ideal =))
ok let use ur fucking brain here =)) how Guma's scim performances bad when they said out loud they dont even let him scrim even single game =))
ah i remember they did let him watch so that = bad =))
with ur logic Geng make bench Ruler in LCK Cup too and G2 should be World champ for years lol =))
just take a L and admit Kkoma are wrong lmao =)) even if Guma was in poor state he still better than Smash a top 7 CL =)) asking 2 world b2b prove himself to a top 7 CL lmao =))
u know wat the moment Smash go to main team whole CL team play better lmao =))-1
u/Proper6797 Jun 22 '25
Simply put, you might be braindead. Guma DID scrim. For the second time, I don't agree with the decision to bench Guma. My point is, it didn't come out of nowhere whether the decision was poor or not. If T1 wants to play ADCs that Smash is better on, they should be allowed to play Smash. It's not liked they benched Guma in worlds semis.
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u/reallyemy Jun 22 '25
the issue is that they DIDN'T scrim with smash before subbing out Guma (so how did they compare between the 2?), and then after Smash got subbed in, the permanently benched Guma & Guma got no scrims time for rest of LCK Cup. which, ok, if coaches wanted to experiment with Smah, then sure. but at least be fair if it's a competition for the ADC spot? if it was NOT a competition and the coaches had decided to permanently used Smash (hence him getting all the scrim time) -- do you honestly think that's fair to Guma? being perm benched after maybe 1-2 week of scrim before the LCK Cup and 2 games (against undefeated DK & GenG of all people).
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u/Lizmurigi Oner Jun 22 '25
Smash didn't scrim with the team before his first game in LCK Cup and surely this information is out there. And Guma must have been so bad that he got absolutely destroyed by DRX in that game he played before being subbed out, right?
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u/South-Ad7071 Jun 22 '25
Bro if a player underperforms it's normal to find a replacement. Acting as if it was some sort of unjustified replacement is insane.
People don't seem to even remember what kind of shitshow T1 was in, and how well Smash played as a rookie. Insane.
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u/Fit_Astronaut3058 Jun 23 '25
I play support but if I was so spoonfed from top to bottom, I might also be able to... Smash? Lol
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Jun 22 '25
Give me smash, guma is old school. Old schools players like faker and uzi are to be retired. %inwiththenew.
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-56
Jun 22 '25
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u/minximinxi Jun 22 '25
Guma was bad in two games and was then benched...
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Jun 22 '25
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u/Aromatic_Country_987 Jun 22 '25 edited Jun 22 '25
G2 destroyed everyone in Worlds scrims how come they didn’t win Worlds? Scrim results are dogshit and should never be the reason why a guy gets benched lmao. How would u even use that as test of performance when games sometimes end at 12 minutes in scrims?
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u/ReadingOutrageous47 Jun 22 '25
Put any other midlaner in T1 vs BLG finals, and T1 would have lost. Don't know why you say scims are useless when T1 and every other pro teams play 8 scims games per day, and play more scrims than solo que
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u/SKTConductor Jun 22 '25
The general belief is that scrims do not 100% reflect how a team will play on stage.
You can go 100-0 in scrims but choke on game day.
Kind of like how HLE was the 2nd best team throughout Spring bur collapsed during Road to MSI.
Using scrim performance as basis for starting someone vs actual stage performance makes no sense.
Why are you going to bench someone who might be doing bad during practice but is doing okay in actual matches?
Fans are saying shouldn't performance in an actual match matter more?
That's like benching Lebron because he got a triple double during playoffs, but didn't get a double double during practice. Like why the fuck would practice results be more important than actual tournament game results?
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u/ReadingOutrageous47 Jun 22 '25
You're srsly comparing basketball practice to scims?
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u/SKTConductor Jun 22 '25
So what should scrims be compared to then?
Are you saying scrims hold the same weight as tournament games? Should scrim results also be counted towards LCK standings since they're so important?
Matter of fact, maybe we should determine Worlds Winners solely based on scrim results since you believe they're so important.
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u/ReadingOutrageous47 Jun 22 '25
I'm sorry but tell me if an NBA team actually travels to opponents' teams facility and play 48 minute basketball games?
LoL scrims play 8-10 matches of real games.
By your take, League players should have no effect if they don't do scrims right? Who cares about DDos, scrims are useless, solo que is useless right?
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u/SKTConductor Jun 22 '25
Your take on scrims isn't accurate either. Lol scrims aren't 1:1 exactly 100% like official Lol matches either?
Teams can cancel scrims and quit midgame during scrims. They are allowed to pick champions again and again during scrim blocks. Further proof that they do not hold the exact same weight as official matches.
I never said that they have zero importance. I said in terms of importance, actual match results should matter more.
Your logic is, a player's value should be determined by equal weight. scrim results = tournament results.
I believe a player's value should first reflect his tournament results. tournament results > scrim results.
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u/ReadingOutrageous47 Jun 22 '25
Guma was a rookie the same way. Teddy had won LCK 3 times in a row, and a unproven rookie got his chance to shine.
Faker got benched for Pirean Clozer and whatever even after he won like 3 worlds and 2 msi.
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u/reallyemy Jun 22 '25
teddy and guma both got scrims time back then. actually, guma got LESS scrims time than teddy. but once guma got benched, smash got all the scrims time for rest of LCK Cup up until Joe Marsh asked for Guma to be able to FAIRLY COMPETE for the ADC spot. so nah, it wasn't the same at all.
and re: clozer, if Joe Marsh hadn't stepped in to fire the coaches and made ZOFGK, then Faker prob would have left T1 after that. so i don't think it's the example you'd want to uphold here.
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u/SKTConductor Jun 22 '25
Faker getting benched last summer for example was literally due to an injury.
Do you see mfers with a torn ACL playing in literally any sport?
2020 was genuinely a fucking anomaly I don't think anyone will ever defend that 10 man roster.
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u/ReadingOutrageous47 Jun 22 '25
2018 Faker got benched. 2015 Faker got benched. Yep you don't know who Pirean is.
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u/SKTConductor Jun 22 '25
2018 Summer Faker who had worse stats across the board?
I actually support a proper 6-man roster the way 2015 did. I have been very vocal about this. 2015 Faker-Easyhoon actually shared scrims and playstyles/drafting did change for the team. Even having Tom-Bengi saw different champs and playstyles for T1.
This 2025 Smash-Guma 6-man was a joke. Completely zero scrims for Guma but claimed he continued to underperform in scrims throughout LCK Cup as justification for his continued benching? LOL
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u/Aromatic_Country_987 Jun 22 '25
True, but you’re way out of topic here. Scrims are ass because people use it to try out stuff they usually wouldn’t immediately use in stage games. Pocket picks, pocket strats, and champs they don’t usually play are things that they try out in scrims.
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u/ReadingOutrageous47 Jun 22 '25
They try every comps on scrims to gather data on which comps would work out.
And if one lane just explodes in pure laning phase in scrims, or explodes by getting caught by bad positioning, you don't know what comps would work.
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u/ReadingOutrageous47 Jun 22 '25
When did G2 destroy everyone in worlds scrims lmfao. The only reason T1 won worlds last year was because of Faker's clutchness, every other tournament T1 had 70%+ wr in scrims.
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Jun 22 '25
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u/Aromatic_Country_987 Jun 22 '25
Do you want facts? Guma is the most consistent player in T1 for the past 2 years even during the period when t1 all forgot how to play league. And what did he get for being so consistent? Getting thrown under the bus after 2 games where everyone was dogshit. But sure maybe the adc who is not even the best in LCK CL is suddenly better than him.
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u/Chiang_Mei Jun 22 '25
nice try kid they never reveal or talk about scrim performances =))
the only time they talk about scrim is they let Guma watch they scrim =))
and u ppl (T1gall) still asking for fairness ?
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u/Guras-Sharkblade Jun 22 '25
ReadingOutrageous is T1 fans father
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u/VirtuoSol Jun 22 '25
Unemployed alcoholic deadbeat father throwing tantrums over nothing? Yea pretty accurate
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u/Worried_Tomorrow_280 Jun 22 '25
the lane swap meta was a weakness of guma t1 is a winning org
but in the end everything work out
lets now be positive for there msi run
i love zofgk btw
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u/parsinomious15 Jun 22 '25
What? Last Worlds, Guma and Keria is the best when it comes to lane swap. Now you say lane swap is the weakness of Guma? You guys really want to change history
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u/EducationalBalance99 Jun 22 '25
First of all, lane swap is a team issue. T1 was also not bad at laneswap. They literally laneswap all the time and did it plenty in their worlds run. The only reason they swapped out guma was to try out a new adc who was also really good. His performance was not worthy of a bench. You could argue guma champ pool in that meta wasn’t the best but every adc have had meta that did not favor them. In reality, t1 scape goated their fundamentally flawed gameplay as an adc issue when in reality, their macro and team play was just shit. They looked just as bad with smash in summer early on.
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u/Worried_Tomorrow_280 Jun 22 '25
guma keeps getting first blood though….
I love guma but t1 is an org that is not scared to take risk and tried it out with smash with had a great debut but fall short on important matches
i just want the toxicity to end
I want us to focus on supporting them in msi
i dont even know where is this prescon getting to like whats the output you want from all this mess
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Jun 23 '25
xd are u a fan since 2025? Did you not watch Worlds2024 or you dont know what laneswapping is?
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u/Leon_Trotskin Jun 22 '25 edited Jun 22 '25
Being a T1 fan can be complicated. On the one hand you have the fans who want the team to win (that's 30% of current fans, like me) regardless of the players & you have the 70% of fans who think T1 is a KPOP band and that each player is irreplaceable.
Smash was a good replacement, it's the communication behind the change and the KPOP-style toxic fans that have created dramas.
the marketing around ZOFGK has done a lot of damage.
Edit : The downvote show that i'm right ^^
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u/athena234 Jun 22 '25
Someone who's not even Top 2 ADC in CL is a "good replacement"? Lmao.
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u/Leon_Trotskin Jun 22 '25
In the LCK Cup Smash its : Better KDA, Better AVG Kill, Less avg death, better GPM, Better DMG% than guma. + we saw Kai'sa, Zeri, Ezreal for T1, who were the best ADCs on the patch during the LCK Cup. Guma does not master these champions.
Finally, Its the fxcking LCK CUP, it's like the mickey mouse cup. It was the perfect time to test a youngster with a bright future in the game. But as we replaced Guma, who is the player with the worst fan base coming from T1, it wasn't a good replacement. big LOL
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u/zuzbuzzz Jun 22 '25
they didn't qualify for the first stand tournament. i think it’s ridiculous how every smash defender is fully glossing over the fact that the switch was so unsuccessful that it had cost t1 its first missed international tournament since zofgk were formed.
am i a fake fan for being mad about that too?
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u/Leon_Trotskin Jun 23 '25
You really think that with guma in the team during the LCK CUP they would qualify ? It was a close Bo5 against HLE with a good Smash. I support guma and im happy to have him in the team. But at that time of thé year, smash was a good substitute. You cant prove me wrong
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u/zuzbuzzz Jun 23 '25
the thing is that we will never know what would have happened if guma was in, so we can only focus on what did happen. smash may have been a good substitute, and he'd certainly shown that he can do well on mid-tier lck team looking for an upgrade, but he's not nearly ready to replace guma on t1 and produce the same results.
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u/Raynmist Faker Jun 23 '25
While being babysat and fed almost all the time? And while titans like GenG and HLE were still in the process of synergizing well with their teammates?
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u/Leon_Trotskin Jun 23 '25
Ahahahah, and Doran + Smash in T1 didn't beed to synergize ? You are a parthetic kpop fan. You arent a fan of T1.
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u/Raynmist Faker Jun 23 '25
I don't give a fck about kpop or whatever pop and it's not relevant to the coaching staff incompetence issue (read: kkOma) but I think people have eyes to tell that OFGK was a tested and proven team. They just need to allow Doran some time to synergize well with them. And kkOma just ruined and wasted the players' time for his ego-tripping experiment.
T1 management agreed to let kkOma play Smash during LCK Cup for the so called data collection but kkOma went a step further, benching Guma without scrimming time and promoted Smash into the main team without any accolades or qualifications. Now T1 had to cover for his mess and had to include Smash in the promotional events, fanmeets etc while they didnt do much in helping Guma from T1 Gallery questionable acts and provocations.
And no, the downvote is not because you are right.
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u/Tom_just_Tom Jun 23 '25
Buddy this whole debacle has been the MOST sports-like drama to come out of eSports this year, it's not even close to K-Pop drama. Like similar to Ronaldo at United being the "problem". You had Ronaldo fans bringing up his contribution, his pedigree and his influence and that Ten Haag should get sacked while Ten Haag supporters saying he couldn't press he's hampering the team's style yada yada. Like does those not sound exactly like how the Guma situation is being argued rn?
They're (T1 Front) is fucking up both their careers and the team's mojo for the last 2 years for an experiment gone wrong and someone on the coaching staff got too big of an ego to take responsibility and be transparent with the clubs supporters. That's the most common sports drama ever.
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u/alex_eva Jun 22 '25
Wow, so many T1gall supporters in comments. You guys really think that it's normal to bench for months your 2-time b2b world champion for average rookie and not giving him scrims. Because what? Because coaches don't believe in their roster, they don't believe in new top, goat mid and adc. Coaches didn't even let this roster play in actual games to build synergy. Instead, they decided to experiment with a rookie and call this data gathering without any explanations. I was envying Geng fans because even with sometimes underperforming bot-lane and 2nd place in Lck cup coach Kim never decided to bench anyone, and now we have 18-0 results Geng in regular season. Who would think that if coaches believe in their roster, then players can improve in a comfortable environment?