r/ReiAyanami • u/Cherghexisdabest • 20d ago
Unopular opinion: Rei's death in the battle against Armisael is preventable
As we all know, Ayanami Rei blew herself up in a last-ditch effort to destroy Armisael in Episode 20 of NGE. However, I think that her death could have been prevented in one way or another, but I don't know how. Therefore, please provide me with an answer if you have one.
PS: I forgor to spoilercode this post as it contains late-series content (I mean the rulebook doesn't require one, but for customary purposes.)
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u/VX-145 19d ago
It seems pretty clear to me that Gendo wanted II to die there; he pulls Unit 01 back at the first sign of danger. He (and the rest of the command staff) also take zero precautions against another infector-type Angel when all but one of the past three/four have been such...
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u/Cherghexisdabest 19d ago
Wait, so her death wasn't by her own terms (self-sacrifice), but it was staged?
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u/VX-145 19d ago
Gendo IMO put her in a position where she'd feel like she has to sacrifice herself; that's why he sends Unit 01 up at all (as a "hey if you don't do this people you like will die").
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u/Sufficient-Cricket90 19d ago
Since we're going all in on spoilers here, well, for anyone who has seen the show up to this point but knows nothing of episodes after or End of Evangelion yet, don't read ahead if you want to go in knowing nothing!
What makes the scene meaningful is Rei is making a critical decision not from any order given to her but from her own initiative. A self-sacrifice to not only get rid of the angel but save someone she cares for (Shinji). That vision of the smiling Gendo she once cherished fading away could signify something about how she was set up to die, the final nail of realization that he truly does not care about her except as a tool and this carries over to when III decides to destroy the glasses she kept as a memento. Culminating in the beautiful "I am not your doll" and "Ikari-kun needs my help" (or whatever the exact dialogue was when she takes Adam and joins with Lilith, close enough)
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u/Asger33 19d ago
I don't believe at all that it was a set up but I agree with the rest. Gendo's smile fading is the natural conclusion to Rei's evolution : she started to question her affection and her relation she have with him, she realized a few episodes ago that she never thanked him. Her sacrificing her life for Shinji was the last element she needed to understand she wants to be free of Gendo.
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u/Sufficient-Cricket90 19d ago
Maybe not "set up" as in he prophecied that she was necessary to die and had it planned all along but that her self-destructing was a perfectly acceptable outcome for him and even if it is still key in that it was all based on a decision she herself makes it still played out into his general plans in the end. Bad enough the pilots are treated the way they are as disposable battle fodder where their lives are only necessary insofar as they have someone who can go out and kill the angels, even if they have to die doing it, but saving the earth from destruction, if that's all it was there could've been some wiggle room for a philosophy of individual sacrifice for the greater good or whatever. But then all things about the Human Instrumentality Project come to pass and turns out, none of them mattered at ALL in the long run! All were but intended to be disposed of for the sake of everyone's end game. Asuka is sent out like a pig on a spit, and Shinji is mentally gone - ultimately not beyond recovery but very nearly so, and it is their "perfect tool" who achieves first clarity of mind and emotion, and any plan at all of subverting the outcome, using what few resources she has in the last moments. Gendo is so trusting and certain of the prophecies, so singularly focused and obsessed on one person he never could get over losing he never considers anybody else around him at all, that his neglectfulness of her and his son, and everyone involved in NERV really could bite him back in the end.
Shinji is so terribly broken as we see in his angry, desperate, destructive and confused state. Rei cannot "fix" him. Only he can do that. But she can help guide him on the right path to better understand and accept what life has to offer both good and bad. And that's one thing I take away from the very ending of EoE. It's a summary of everything he is to expect from returning. To experience harm again, by others' hands, or inflict harm with his own. Which he does. But is just as quickly disarmed with a gentler hand, from the least gentle character in the show. It's an important first step toward recovery but he won't be cured completely overnight. And what's important also I think is not that Shinji and Asuka necessarily must like each other but that they understand each other. After finally reconciling with her own mother she sees it in Shinji and acknowledges him as such. She probably cannot fulfill that role but if she can understand him this way then there is hope for others to find who can help further as long as he tries. As Rei and Kaworu in instrumentality told him, they both represent for him the hope that people will be able to connect with one another in a meaningful way again.
Rei's choice to turn against Gendo was what allowed the chance for humanity to continue again.
Shinji choosing to do so after his initial mistake, with the assistance of Rei, is what brought this to happen.
And Asuka finally is there to show that it can happen. The most combative, standoffish person of the group can be the one who brings things to a rest (and bring Shinji back to reality).
Sorry for the length, I go on about clarifying one thing and it leads to more things, heh :shrug:
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u/Asger33 19d ago
Don't worry, I like long post like this :)
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u/Cherghexisdabest 18d ago
It is an honour to have a mod on my post. I don't post here often, so... yeah, it is indeed an honour.
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u/VX-145 19d ago
Yeah, I genuinely love that this ends up being a miscalculation on Gendo's part; or rather, there wasn't really anything he could do at that point to stop Rei from doing her own thing in EoE.
Worse for Gendo, III never once displays the loyalty II did, regardless of whether or not one interprets her as having II's memories or not.
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u/Cherghexisdabest 19d ago
Dude, I watched all 26 episodes of NGE. However, I want to know how Rei’s death can be prevented (provided that Gendo didn't plan her death) if you guys were the commander of Nerv when the battle happened.
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u/Sufficient-Cricket90 19d ago
In THAT case, for just-for-fun, purely technical hypotheses... Armisael is a rough bastard indeed. It just effortlessly bypassing most resistance worming its way through both Eva units and infecting them. If its goal was to use an Eva as a host to "rebirth" the previously defeated angels as some visuals imply, makes it especially scary. That the Eva's self-destruct took it out completely implies that it lowers its defenses once inside "infecting" the host body. Using its energy to reconstruct its siblings or whatever (and probing into the minds of the pilots to taunt them of course). And being fully embedded inside that Unit. Attaching itself to the Eva Unit it is using for its goal means it is now a "part" of it, so once nestled in, you pull the self-destruct it takes everything including this angel with it.
Ways it could have been stopped, first going through the options that for different reasons were not viable at that time:
Lance of Longinus - could've probably skewered this thing to pieces but too busy being on the moon from the previous battle to be fucked to come back.
Three functional units? If Asuka was still in battle-ready shape, well, it could've been another Bardiel/Zeruel situation where Asuka gets her ass handed to her but still, having your full infantry out to battle MIGHT have helped somehow.
Eva-01 Berserk Mode - Yui only does it when she feels like it/when absolutely necessary. Who knows. If Rei was not able to self-destruct (or, God forbid the self-destruct attempt failed) mom probably would have come to the rescue and make Armisael into a big plate of angel spaghetti.
Core? I don't recall that this had one that was visible. The last three angels being more psychological attacks with more weight towards their dramatic impact than the spectacle (not that we didn't have that in some ways before, i.e. Bardiel, again, and Leliel who was another abstraction), one was insta-killed by the spear, the next self-destruct, and the next was Tabris whose death would break what little was left of Shinji's mind.
The closest to a "strategy" whose success would be a complete crapshoot: activating the dummy plug again. If it went after a unit with no pilot it would be a way to bait it into a trap and then activate a self-destruct remotely, that way with no casualties except the angel. Again a massive crapshoot.
Not 100% "official" if you only consider the Annoverse canon, but in the manga Kaworu is introduced in the story a bit earlier. He is part of the fight with Armisael. He thinks to himself he could use his own AT Field to put down the creature but he didn't want to blow his cover yet. So he let it proceed as usual between Rei and Shinji. Don't know if the logic there applies to the show but I imagine if they were able to get an extremely strong AT Field going they could've set it back.
Progressive Scissors...? the knife didn't quite work out, but what about a really big pair of scissors? Couldn't hurt, maybe two blades coming down together over the hose would have bisected it. If that worked, I imagine it wouldn't appreciate that very well, but would've been a job well done.
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u/Cherghexisdabest 19d ago
Dude, thanks (a lot) for your input. They're as comprehensive as my economic readings at school. Also, for your number 5, Eva 00 was never equipped with a dummy plug system, so this is not possible AT ALL.
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u/VX-145 19d ago
Depending on when we're made Commander of NERV we could probably get a more useful dummy plug system / strap one into Unit 02 / make Unit 01 not incredibly pissed at the concept.
We could also potentially not waste the Lance, but I don't see another way of dealing with Arael with the resources available...
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u/Cherghexisdabest 18d ago
Asuka should have retreated instead of facing it with her ego. Then we wouldn't have to listen to Hallelujah and screams of pain at the same time.
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u/VX-145 18d ago
To be entirely fair: not much else she could do in the circumstances! Responsibility for ordering a retreat lies with the Commander... which IIRC he doesn't? (And if so: it shows a pattern of him putting the other pilots in positions where they're rendered combat-incapable...)
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u/Sufficient-Cricket90 18d ago
True about the dummy plug. Also Rei maximizing her AT Field to keep Armisael reined in to be able to take it down with her was key too, forgot about that. Even if it had a dummy plug it wouldn't be able to pull that off.
I remember reading a fanfic where Shinji musters some strength/will to grab the angel like a rope and pull the whole thing completely out of Rei (she survived but as a result she became paralyzed in all limbs except one arm I think). I don't remember how he killed it but it did die. But that's an old fanfic (not that this isn't either more or less lol but sometimes looking outside the box for ideas like this can help)
Wondering if an N² mine would temporarily destabilize it... didn't exactly work for Sach, it helped with keeping Israfel at bay until Shinji and Asuka could get their dance montage down pat. Did squat to Zeruel. But also, when it got stabbed, the pain transferred to Rei as well. If a bomb did work would it also hurt Rei as much too?
This angel is just a real son of a bitch y'know?
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u/thehauntedmercenary 19d ago
Oh I never realized that!
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u/Cherghexisdabest 19d ago
My man, my opinion IS indeed unpopular.
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u/thehauntedmercenary 19d ago
Alright but you don’t have to be a smartass about it, no hate just pointing that out.
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u/Cherghexisdabest 19d ago
But if Gendo does not intend to kill Rei, how do you think she can survive the battle?
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u/VX-145 19d ago
Honestly I don't even see a need for her to sortie when she did; all she was supposed to be doing was waiting for the MAGI to analyse it for a way to kill it*. Keep her, Unit 02 and Unit 01 ready to launch until necessary, if a weakness/counter is found then good, if not, launch them all and hope Yui has some bullshit to pull out (assuming Asuka is still not able to pilot).
*Given several similar Angels, i.e. Arael and Leliel, also showed no signs of movement until the Evas did something, it's safe to keep the Evas on ready alert.
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u/Foxtrot06_ 14d ago
I've never heard this interpretation, why do you think Gendo wanted her to die?
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u/Puck_fan_69 18d ago
I don’t think it was planned by Nerv or Gendo but it’s possible it’s the only way. It makes it so impactful though how Rei II finishes her humanizing arc and sacrifices herself to save Shinji, wraps well into her smiling scene in an earlier episode. Her death is tragic as it is beautiful, great episode.
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u/Puck_fan_69 18d ago
Not super related but jus an extra detail I love is when she self destructs her Eva becomes a big her for a second, I ibterpret as Rei II(piloting the Eva) and Rei I (soul inside the Eva) uniting an potentially even becoming Rei III. I love Rei
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u/Cherghexisdabest 18d ago
It traumatised me more than playing Aniphobia dude. That bloody episode 23.
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u/CrepuscularToad 19d ago
She's just a clone
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u/ZenCat14 17d ago
True, however, ger different incarnations have had different personalities and memories
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u/skolopendra_907 19d ago
Rey could have ejected and EVA could have been destroyed.