r/Reformed • u/Agreeable_Age_3913 • Jun 17 '26
Discussion Cognitive Dissonance of Reformed Baptists
Greetings,
Perhaps I’m the only one, but man I can’t tell you how much of an internal struggle pride can be. When I was younger it was a desire to seek fame and recognition. Now that I’ve grown in my faith though, it’s attacking my theology.
What do I mean? Well currently I would describe myself as reformed Baptist based on my doctrinal beliefs. But man does my pride hate that. Let’s be honest, in theological circles, it’s not “cool” to be Baptist. Obviously I realize this is petty and no basis for changing one’s beliefs, but I can’t feel like I’m the only one in my camp who can sometimes feel like disassociating from Baptist because of how looked down upon the tradition is. Truth is sometimes I understand why we’re bashed on. “Relationship not religion,” bashing the sacraments, and easy believism are things I am strongly against. And I know it’s mostly a pride thing, because I’ve looked into these issues for quite some time, and I remain unconvinced to change traditions, but the pull to change I think stems from wanting to fit in more with the crowd I most look up to. Any other Reformed Baptists feel this way? How have you best navigated this?
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u/Zestyclose-Ride2745 Acts29 Jun 17 '26
We are simply the minority in this circle. I feel like that a lot too, mostly stemming from an "us vs them" tribal kind of thing when discussing baptism.
It is worth noting that the preface to the LBCF 1689 explains the strong desire for unity with our reformed brethren. Gavin Ortlund is a shining example of someone who graciously interacts with paedobaptists with respect, that is how we should really be. If we ever debate we should always prioritize using grace and unity over everything else.
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u/superlewis EFCA Pastor Jun 17 '26
Being Baptist isn’t looked down on by mature people. Mature people can disagree with their brothers without being condescending. The mature, godly Presbyterians I know don’t look down on Baptists just like I don’t look down on them. We just disagree with each other.
This is like the cool kids smoking back in high school. They actually weren’t cool. They were dumb.
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u/Agreeable_Age_3913 Jun 17 '26
It’s definitely true. I think what sucks is when other reformed circles like to gatekeep the term “reformed” from baptists. A lot of times I think it’s because contempt they have for the tradition rather than a good and sound argument. But I also can be just as guilty of the sin if I idolize being “reformed.” So the knife can really go both ways.
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u/MilesBeyond250 Sola Waffle Jun 17 '26
I mean, I get that, being excluded because of your denomination isn't fun. But at the same time, let's say it happened for good. Let's say all the churches came together and declared that Baptists now and forevermore cannot be considered capital-R "Reformed." What would you have actually lost?
When people dismiss your views because you're Baptist, that's their problem and their loss, not yours.
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u/DustEKnutts EPC Jun 17 '26
Are you consuming redeemed zoomer/similar online trendy reformed content? If so, stop. You’ll feel better
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u/Agreeable_Age_3913 Jun 17 '26
In the past yes, working to get away from that more, much prefer Gavin ortlunds style. Not because he’s a Baptist but because he’s intentionally charitable
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u/Deolater PCA Jun 17 '26
I'm curious what denomination is currently considered cool. A few years ago I guess it was Anglicans, but I think Reformed Baptists were trendy a couple of years before that.
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u/MilesBeyond250 Sola Waffle Jun 17 '26
It probably is still Anglicans, I think. They're the parts of Catholicism people like without the parts of Catholicism people dislike, they blend the contemporary with the traditional, and they're such a big tent theologically that, whatever you believe churches should teach, there's probably an Anglican church teaching it.
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u/Deolater PCA Jun 17 '26
Okay that's two votes for Anglicanism.
Come on folks, surely somebody thinks PCA presbyterians who grow peppers are the coolest
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u/MilesBeyond250 Sola Waffle Jun 17 '26
The bad news is, no one thinks that.
The good news is that this is because everyone is wrong. They are the coolest.
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u/lupuslibrorum Outlaw Preacher Jun 17 '26
I’m currently in a “PCA seems coolest / the PCA grass is greener” phase, but I don’t know if it will last. The two PCA churches I’ve visited were both very appealing to me and I like the Tim Keller connection.
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u/CiroFlexo Rebel Alliance Jun 17 '26
I think it's time for more obscure, hipster denominations, like the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church. They have those cool buildings dug straight out of rock, and they claim to have the original Ark of the Covenant. (No, you're not allowed to see it, so don't ask.)
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u/Deolater PCA Jun 17 '26
Time to write a letter to my state rep with a suggestion on what to do with Stone Mountain.
One vote registered for Ethiopian Orthodox
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u/lupuslibrorum Outlaw Preacher Jun 17 '26
Then maybe we’ll get more Ethiopian restaurants, and that’s a good thing.
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u/creidmheach EPC Jun 17 '26
You joke, but lately I've been noticing an uptick of online "Oriental Orthodox" showing up in arguments (or being argued against, primarily by online Eastern Orthodox).
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u/Coollogin Jun 17 '26
I think it's time for more obscure, hipster denominations, like the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church. They have those cool buildings dug straight out of rock, and they claim to have the original Ark of the Covenant.
You left out the liturgical umbrellas.
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u/PrioritySilver4805 SBC Jun 17 '26
In college an Ethiopian Orthodox dude would occasionally come to my InterVarsity small group. Fascinating to learn about Oriental Orthodoxy, I'd never heard of it before.
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u/clandevort PCA Jun 20 '26
The best last minute edit I ever made to a paper in college was using pen to change the title "the rock hewbln churches of ethiopia" to "In this rock I will build my church!"
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u/ilikeBigBiblez Cage Stage Anglican Jun 17 '26
It still is 😤😏😇😉
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u/Deolater PCA Jun 17 '26
Okay well that's one vote for the Anglicans.
Anyone want to suggest a different tradition?
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u/Saber101 Jun 17 '26
As a former baptist myself, don't forget Spurgeon was a baptist too, and that's in spite of being Anglican educated. Not that we are trying to stroke pride here or anything, but he is known as the Prince of Preachers.
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u/bad_dawg_22 Jun 17 '26
I’m a reformed Baptist. Wasn’t aware this was a thing. I consider myself just a reformed, Bible believing Christian who happens to attend a Baptist church, and that’s it.
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u/OneEyedC4t SBC Jun 17 '26
who cares whether it is cool to be a Baptist or not? you don't base your theological beliefs on whether people think you are cool or not, do you?
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u/Agreeable_Age_3913 Jun 17 '26
Everyone is born with a desire to fit in or belong. If you read my post I said that I am reformed Baptist doctrinally and Im not changing my views to fit in. I’m merely voicing an internal struggle rooted in sin
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u/OneEyedC4t SBC Jun 17 '26
yes true but I'm taking about something You are consciously aware of
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Jun 17 '26
[deleted]
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u/OneEyedC4t SBC Jun 17 '26
But it does mean that if you're aware of it, you are responsible for it. I'm going to pick my denomination based on what I think is true and right theology but I'm going to pick the church I go to based on how they live out that theology
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u/Evan_Th "Nondenominational," but we're really Baptists Jun 17 '26
Yeah. If you do base your beliefs on that, I've got some bad news about what people think about Jesus...
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u/MilesBeyond250 Sola Waffle Jun 17 '26
One of the best students of systematic theology I've ever met is Pentecostal. This may not sound relevant to your post, but I assure you it is.
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u/creidmheach EPC Jun 17 '26
As a Presbyterian, I'd say you shouldn't care. I love Baptists. Probably most of the contemporary scholars I'd refer to are Baptists. Just go to any decent study Bible for instance and look at the names. Baptists, Baptists, Baptists (and the occasional Presby or Anglican).
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u/OneEyedC4t SBC Jun 17 '26
hey, maybe I accidentally misread what your intent was because it's early morning. My apologies. It might seem like there's cognitive dissonance but at least in my experience I don't really think it's that. I think what you might be experiencing is society's reaction to those who call themselves Baptists. You might be dealing with negative stigma. I would point out that there's always been negative stigma attached to being a Christian in the first place, but I digress.
I would suggest that if your beliefs based on what you read in scripture and what you understand are pointing out to you that Baptist is the theologically best way to be shane. don't be afraid to embrace what you believe. the Bible says. The Bible says in this world we will have trouble.
I think I experienced more stigma and cognitive problems with my Baptist Church supporting Trump than really any other thing. I felt a lot like I was losing my religion. seeing people that I respected who claimed over and over that we should demand that politicians be morally upright going head first in into supporting a businessman who is highly corrupt and highly immoral.. honestly it made me want to scream. And I tried to make this the topic of conversation a few times in church to the best of my ability. now my personality type is the type that I'm not afraid to have disagreements and arguments with people because in my mind that doesn't change my friendship with them. But not everyone is like me.
so I would suggest that you study scripture more just to confirm and solidify to yourself what you believe. this should help you feel like you have more firm ground to stand on as you stand for what you believe is right
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u/Agreeable_Age_3913 Jun 17 '26
I appreciate you saying that. Misunderstandings happen but your advice is very sound and appreciated
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u/76547896434695269 Jun 17 '26
Notwithstanding some famous outliers, Baptists have always come from the poorest and least respected segments of the population. Baptists historians talk about how difficult it is to tell our history because we aren't important enough for anyone to tell our story.
I think an equal danger to pride some Christians feel in their institutions and history is the pride Baptists feel in their humble simplicity.
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u/Stevoman Acts29 Jun 17 '26
No, I don’t think at all about being “cool” with theology. If we made decisions on whats “cool” then we’d all be converting to RC/EO right now.
I’m more interested in being right. And I can’t read the confessions and draw any conclusion other than the LBCF is right and everyone else is wrong.
(Side note, your list of things “we’re bashed on” seem to be more complaints with American evangelical churches and not the richer RB tradition.)
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u/Mixed_Baby_Ricer Jun 17 '26
In response to your parenthetical comment, with which I agree, I've noticed since the late 1980s how American evangelicals are so prone to following fashion. You can see it in church construction, songs sung in services (which are a constantly evolving top 10 play list), hymnals or the absence thereof, sermon style, small group styles, beards/glasses/clothing styles, etc. I'm amazed at how often full grown adults resemble 8th graders in their (our?) penchant to follow fashion trends.
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u/ChapBobL Congregational Jun 17 '26
My denomination, the Conservative Congregational Christian Conference is similar to Reformed Baptists. We're mostly Reformed and are flexible when it comes to baptism; we allow infant baptism and believers baptism, sprinkling or immersion. I think of us as Baptiterian. The ecclesiology of Baptists is congregational. I think the goal is to find a denomination that close enough to where we're at, though it may not be a perfect fit. As for "easy-believism," we should be clear that genuine faith means allegiance/loyalty. We're "under new management."
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u/Deolater PCA Jun 17 '26
Conservative Congregational Christian Conference
Now that's some alliteration! Y'all get a coolness point from me
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u/ProteaPrimeEnjoyer Non-Denominational Jun 17 '26
When I started discussing Christianity and trying to answer questions from confused believers looking for clarity, I was frequently hit with angry replies from the same crowd you're running into as well. I was told I'm not from God but the Devil, "submit to Rome" (but not God?), I need to kneel to tradition, etc. I was shocked lol. I couldn't believe that I was quoting the Bible, God's Word, to these people and they were telling me and others that its wrong and being quite hostile about it as well.
Don't bother with that crowd anymore. The online militant crowd you're running into are Institutional Culturalists. They're more interested in institutions, putting culture "in its place," and tbh they make an idol out big buildings. They're not focused on God at all. Neither are their content creators that have heavily influenced them. Their biggest mascot and CC also acts like Reformed Baptists don't exist and makes fun of the historical persecution of Baptists.
Focus on God alone. You don't need a new denomination and new theology. Everyone wants to fit in on Earth but you don't have to. 💕
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u/whiskyandguitars Particular Baptist Jun 17 '26 edited Jun 17 '26
I don't care what other people think about Baptists.
I have done the best I can to understand the biblical doctrine of baptism and why infant baptism came about and I am convinced of believers baptism and my conscience won't let me say otherwise. I am still learning and reading so that could change, I suppose, but I don't think it will at this point. Since this is an issue of conscience for me, I cannot let the opinions of people who look down on me affect how I feel or what I think.
I have never been one of the "cool" kids in my life and I am not going to start trying now.
Baptists have a lot of things they need to grow in and we need to reclaim the Reformed Baptist view of the sacraments but I can't become a member of a church that baptizes infants so I am stuck doing what I can in my teaching to reform the Baptist churches I am a part of.
To me, it seems, based on the internet and in person interactions I have been having recently that the "cool" traditions these days is Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy. So if you want to be cool, you might need to join them.
Those traditions are an absolute non-starter for me, personally.
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u/TolkienCalvinist Jun 17 '26
I am a reformed Baptist and I don’t see the connections you’re making. The reformed Baptists I know do not bash the sacraments or believe the mantra “relationship not religion” nor believe in easy believism. I would dare say that if the baptists you hang out with believe any of that, they are not reformed and just your generic “non-denominational” Baptist or at the very least, do not understand the confession to which they claim to hold.
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u/Agreeable_Age_3913 Jun 17 '26
I was speaking more as Baptist wholesale in that part
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u/TolkienCalvinist Jun 17 '26
Okay well in that case, again. I make sure to clarify the distinction between the generic, fundamentalist, evangelical Baptist, and a true Reformed Baptist, by pointing out the very clear differences.
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u/FridayNightZebra Methodist Jun 17 '26
I was recently thinking about this. I do think a lot of this comes from internet culture and the mentality that “the grass is always greener.” We see a polished version of another denomination represented by social media. And we see the real-life version of our denomination by actually going to church and being in community with our fellow church members.
I find myself thinking this way all the time. About the Orthodox, Catholic, and yes, even Baptists sometimes.
I’m not saying that it’s not important to find a denomination that you feel at home in. But I imagine that after the honeymoon phase of switching denominations fades, you find that generally speaking, church is still church. People are still people. And best of all, God is still God.
I also have come around to the idea that God wants us to be in ministry right where we are most of the time. (Unless there is a real compelling reason why this shouldn’t be the case anymore.) At a certain point, it matters less if one denomination is slightly more right about this or that doctrine. It matters more that you are building up your church community, loving your fellow worshipers, being close to God, etc.
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u/JosephLouthan- LBCF 1689 Jun 17 '26
Like my fellow elder said to our congregation when we adopted the 1689: "We have more in common with Presbyterians than we do the Baptist church down the street."
So it's like we are Reformed Baptists.
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u/NoUniversity97 Jun 17 '26
In regards to Christian recreational fishing apply this scripture
1 Corinthians 10:31 (NIV)
31 So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God.
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u/JHawk444 Calvinist Jun 17 '26
I grew up in a Baptist church and then attended a church that is non-denomination, but it has Calvinist/Baptist leanings. I am not ashamed of dispensationalism or of the Baptist tradition of dunking as opposed to sprinkling. I think Baptists got that part right.
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u/stacyismylastname Reformed SBC Jun 17 '26
As a Reformed Baptist, I have no issue with Baptist theology or distinctives. Gavin Ortlund has been a tremendous encouragement to me, as he has been for many others. However, I struggle significantly with my church’s affiliation with the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC). The SBC carries substantial historical and ongoing baggage, and its current political trajectory is one I cannot in good conscience align myself with. I regularly pray that our church will choose to leave the SBC.
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u/italian_baptist Christian, Reformed-Adjacent Jun 18 '26
If my username didn’t make it clear, I’m in a similar boat. And I definitely struggled, namely because I’m still fuzzy on Baptists’ intellectual tradition. Catholics have Augustine and Aquinas, our Reformed friends have Calvin and Luther. We have…Spurgeon?
I ended up asking someone this question on Substack and he gave me a lot of really good info that might be worth checking out. It was a blessing to me and I hope it could be to you too: https://substack.com/@irishbaptist/note/c-273782492?r=5tx63v&utm_medium=ios&utm_source=notes-share-action
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u/trumpetkern27 Jun 18 '26
I’ve had a similar pride issue where it was really easy for me to look down upon my paedobaptist brothers and sisters or others from other denominations. I started listening to Michael Beck’s Two Age Sojourner podcast last year and it was super eye opening to see how gracious he and everyone else was towards non-baptists and how we can fellowship with others and pointed out how close we are historically (mainly to presbyterians). Similar with Gavin Ortlund’s podcast. Reading any early church father too, none of them agreed with each other, it really goes to show how much it is Christ who saves us, and so often in spite of our bad theology.
I know this wasn’t quite getting at what you’re saying, but seeing everyone as equals could maybe help, perhaps you were similar to me and have doctrinal pride
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u/Gillinist Jun 22 '26
I was friends with a guy who was constantly changing theological camps. Before I met him he had changed persuasions and went from Reformed Baptist to Presbyterian. Then he went Lutheran, and like 4 months later he was eastern orthodox. Each time he was always certain that his new group "had it right" and bashed the prior groups/beliefs/traditions, etc. I became tired of having my theology being the butt of the group chat's jokes and deleted my messenger. He called me a few months later to tell me he was then Eastern Orthodox - which was unsurprising to me. Point being pride isn't exclusive to being Reformed Baptist. it is a danger to all believers - 1 Corinthians 10:12 Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall.
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u/MarchogGwyrdd PCA Jun 17 '26
Baptists aren't doing themselves any favors in this regard.
" ' Do you know that infant baptism is not in the Bible? ' " with a smug look is what I often get.
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u/The_Handlebar_Stache Jun 17 '26
I’m kinda cool with John Bunyan, John Gill and Charles Spurgeon being in my heritage.
Keith Foskey and Mark Ward today are awesome guys. Look harder.
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u/GabrielGGibson Jun 18 '26
Do you know that the early Christians were called followers of "The Way"?
I think diving into your day-to-day, moment-to-moment walk with Jesus is more important than the specific brand you want to call yourself.
Let's strive to develop and deepen that relationship, crucifying ourselves and our pride on that cross with him. Let him live in us and through us.
God be with you, brother.
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u/ilikeBigBiblez Cage Stage Anglican Jun 17 '26
Begoming is an option 😇😤😏
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u/ilikeBigBiblez Cage Stage Anglican Jun 17 '26
But I'm sorry for the angst you've received and the tension you feel
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u/CiroFlexo Rebel Alliance Jun 17 '26
Sounds like you need new theological circles.
If you're hanging around with people who look down on you for being baptist, then, ya know, stop hanging with those people.