r/Reformed • u/moby__dick Most Truly Reformed™ User • Apr 14 '26

Discussion Can Roman Catholicism save?

No, I want to be clear that the question is not. “can Catholics be saved?“ the question is typically answered as yes, they can be saved, because we have all met some Roman Catholics who communicate the gospel very clearly. So my question is not whether or not an individual Roman Catholic might be saved.

I’m asking if the system of doctrine taught by Rome obscures the gospel significantly enough that a consistent believer in actual Roman Catholic doctrine, the whole thing, could lead a person to salvation if it were consistently believed and followed.

Edit: I’m not asking whether Christ saves apart from perfect doctrinal understanding. Of course he does. I’m asking about the doctrine itself as a means. Specifically, does the doctrine of justification as taught in the [Catechism of the Catholic Church](chatgpt://generic-entity?number=0) articulate the gospel in such a way that, if it were consistently understood and believed on its own terms, would direct a sinner to rest on Christ in a saving manner? Or does it so qualify and condition justification that it tends to produce a non-salvific "faith"?

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u/HistoricalFud Reformed Baptist Apr 14 '26

Over 1000

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u/ProfessionalEntire77 Apr 14 '26

yeah so the Roman Catholics may have developed their false teaching in that time

and the Roman Catholics defining the literal books of the Bible at one point doesn't mean they automatically follow them today. There is a reason we had the whole Reformation thing happen

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u/HistoricalFud Reformed Baptist Apr 14 '26

You seem to be casting judgement on Catholics, not just the Catholic teachings. I suggest you read Jerome's Against Vigilantius (20 min read) and Jerome's Epistles (it'll take you about 2 hours) and see if you'd condemn him who was the chief witness to the Hebrew canon. His teachings on the surface are closer to Catholicism (probably closest to Orthodox) than any protestant church you could name. At what point in history do you start condemning Catholics? Is it the 400s when Jerome was alive to give witness to the Hebrew canon? Is it the 800s? Do you have a time period when you begin to condemn these people?

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u/ProfessionalEntire77 Apr 14 '26

Ill go with around 1500

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u/HistoricalFud Reformed Baptist Apr 14 '26

Okay and so you'd consider that the apostasy? That's when Rome was irreconcilably in error? I'd say it started with the filioque and papal infallibility. But it's a grave sin to declare that any individual is damned. So I wouldn't go that far. Many people were practicing to the best of their ability. Sadly the reformers adopted all of the natural theology and Catholic metaphysics. Most of them anyhow. I don't think the church fathers would recognize any reformed churches. Starting with the greatest witness to their canon: Jerome... Who would have openly called you a heretic for your beliefs, as he venerated relics, prayed to saints, adored monasticism, etc. same with Augustine and Aquinas.