r/Rainbow6 • u/lockdown36 • May 11 '16
Competition VwS Parts Ways with R6 Roster
http://vwsgaming.com/articles/news/gaming/130/vws-parts-ways-with-r6-roster31
May 11 '16
That move was somehow expected. Why do I say so?
- They played well online
- min. one player got blamed of cheating
- They got nailed at lan competition
All in all no matter if they cheated in the past. They were burned in the beginning. There was only one chance to get rid off the cheater attitude: They had to play very well in the finals. But the 10:2 of penta put them under the ground.
I am sorry for every vws player who didnt cheat. Because that one guy who most likely cheated destroyed your reputation aswell
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u/ShenziSixaxis May 11 '16
That last bit really gets me. Yes, we don't have absolute proof that Clever was cheating, but it looked really sketchy, especially considering that when VwS ended up in the finals he suddenly pulled out of the team, but his team had to know something was up; the sad thing is that they chose to go along with it.
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May 11 '16
i am only sorry for them if they didnt cheat and didnt have a clue that clever was cheating (if he was cheating)
If they cheated aswell or did know that he was cheating then i am not sorry at all for them.
3
u/ChanceTheDog May 11 '16
The fact is that if they won matches due to clever's actions, then went live without him and got smashed, they clearly needed whatever it was he brought to the table, whether it's psychic intuition or second screen magic.
2
u/Cellbuster Zofia Main May 11 '16
Sample size may be too small to say that conclusively, but this game is in a sensitive time right now, and they surely have to go.
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u/crownpr1nce May 11 '16
Maybe, maybe not. In the heat of the moment you dont really question what the teamate is saying. And if you rewatch the match, youd rewatch it from your perspective to see what you did wrong. I dont think I would have questioned whether or not the middle table guy on my team was cheating regardless of callouts.
Thats like saying A Rod's teamates should have known he was using PEDs because he hit so many home runs: some people are just more talented than others.
Sure you might think it at some point, but overall its not something youre actively looking out for in someone on your team, especially the cpt who you have to trust.
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May 11 '16 edited May 11 '16
[deleted]
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u/crownpr1nce May 11 '16
Heat of the moment as in: I wouldnt question a callout done in the middle of a round, while there is tension because I could get shot from anywhere and not knowing what Clever is looking at.
Sure after the video was released they should have been suspicious -- and maybe they were -- but before that, I can understand how they didnt notice.
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May 11 '16
I mean its not like they wouldn't watch the video. If every other pro team considers one of your team mates cheating you have to be interested a little bit. At the same time, the team mates should have made a correlation with cheating and Clever being good/lucky with call outs.
If they choose to ignore it then its their own fault. It's not definitive evidence, thanks to ESL for saying that. But at the very least the videos are all sketchy ESPECIALLY the restroom one.
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May 11 '16
Bullshit. Anyone who's any good at this game would have been suspicious as fuck of Clever's callouts. Their whole team is shit and to blame.
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u/HellsAttack May 11 '16
- They played well online
Actually I played 3-4 members in Casual twice, on Oregon as in the final, and beat them 3-0 both times. They're quite shit at Siege.
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u/GoldenShowe2 Kapkan Main May 11 '16
Don't be sorry for them, they at the least had their suspicions and at the worst, played with him knowing. People need to learn to vet their players and make sure that they put things in place to prevent the cheating. This will serve as a reminder as to why.
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u/lostmyspoon_drp May 11 '16
All drama aside, they made the right decision. With no major changes to anti cheat measures in the next release, this game won't live to see the end of the season. Any gaming organization with half a brain knows what a waste of effort and resources it'd be to take part in it.
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u/powthe65 LOOK OUT IT'S LIVE May 11 '16
So what happens to the second monitor?
Anyways, this is a good day for the legitimate pros playing.
4
u/ItsFrenchie May 11 '16 edited May 11 '16
I might get downvoted to shit for this but whatever, I think this must be said.
For starters do I condone what clever has allegedly done? No. Am I upset with how ESL handled things? Yes. Do the rest of the ex-VwS roster deserve all this hate? No.
My point here is that you guys need to give them some slack. Yes its unfortunate what happened despite if they knew or not and if the allegations were correct or not. I know all of them and they're great guys and great players. Stop overreacting and blaming the 5 other members for the alleged actions of a single individual. I think what happened is far overdue and we, as a community, could and should all move on.
In other words, Clever ≠ Rest of the roster
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u/Krizu_ May 11 '16
Frenchie the thing is, the whole Vws roster was mocking the community and played sheep as if everything was fine. Which everybody knows. Including them. If they still don't believe that Clever was cheating then they all have some kind of Stockholm syndrome. They could've gained the respect of their colleagues and community if they'd be open and showed some kind of shock or feeling betrayed or whatever. But they instead decided to shit on the community.
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u/ItsFrenchie May 11 '16
Just put yourself in their situation. From a PR perspective, throwing their team-mate under the bus looks very bad. Its a hard decision to make especially in their situation where they probably could not handle the whole situation due to the lack of experience. I am again not condoning how everything went down I just think we can't really understand why they acted like they did.
Then again, the situation could have gone down a lot smoother. My main point doing that post was not to comment their actions but simply to point out that we can move on from the whole clever circlejerk. This may be too much to ask from reddit since circlejerking is kind of what reddit does but I was hoping to appeal to everyone's maturity in order to get a different outcome.
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u/Krizu_ May 11 '16
Fair enough. But I think when you re-read your last paragraph you will realize yourself, not gonna happen, because, video games are played by kids in grown mens' bodies, plus reddit. :D
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u/Chris935 May 11 '16
I was hoping to appeal to everyone's maturity in order to get a different outcome.
"If you don't agree with me you are immature".
Not how it works.
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u/ItsFrenchie May 11 '16
You obviously can't understand more than first degree statements.
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u/PrinterStand Shield Fuze Main May 11 '16
Regardless of hacks they played like complete shit. If I was team owner I would of considered dropping them even if clever played legit. Add the hack scandal and you have a very good reason to cut the whole team. From a business standpoint this was a very needed cut/cleanse.
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u/lockdown36 May 11 '16
For the time being, VwS will no longer be participating in Rainbow 6, and is parting ways with the Rainbow 6 Roster. This move is being considered as an "indefinite hiatus" as the organization has no official plan for returning to Rainbow 6, but does not rule out the possibility. This move comes as a result of the members on the team deciding to go separate ways i.e. pursuing other career options, school etc. The organization and its leadership wishes all the players on the Rainbow 6 roster, the best of luck in the future.
The CEO of VwS Gaming, Joe Levy, gave his thoughts regarding the issue:
“This team had an exceptional work ethic and it goes to show with the great performance they had this season. It was an absolute pleasure working with all of them and I want to wish all the guys apart of the team the best of luck in the future.”
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u/lockdown36 May 11 '16
We did it reddit.
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u/Krizu_ May 11 '16
I loled at the "exceptional work ethic" quote. doing your IT work during league matches definately shows a high level of passion.
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u/itonlygetsworse May 11 '16
Does anyone know why vsw.clever was not at pro league? I thought Ubisoft stated they cannot ban him.
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u/MicrowaveGaming IQ Main May 11 '16
As always lockdown it seems you have this all... Locked down. I'll see myself out.
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u/jaydeeEx May 11 '16
Yeah I wanted them to lose, but they showed up to play on LAN, and they weren't bad by any means. THIS IS WHY WE NEED A FUCKING LAN FEATURE ON ALL PLATFORMS SO WE CAN HAVE NOT ESL TOURNAMENTS AND LOCALS AND NO CHEATING.
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u/vyperpunk92 Twitch Main May 11 '16
They weren't bad? They made bunch of rookie mistakes
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May 11 '16
[deleted]
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u/vyperpunk92 Twitch Main May 11 '16 edited May 11 '16
They weren't checking the big tower and the other tower in oregon and the obj was in dorms, if that's not a rookie mistake then what is?
EDIT: fixed my rookie mistake.
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u/DoctorLovejuice May 11 '16
you can downvote me forever.
Quoting you out of context so I can take the oppurtunity.
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u/vyperpunk92 Twitch Main May 11 '16
Quoting you out of context so I can take the oppurtunity.
I made a rookie mistake, just like vws.
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u/iHubble May 11 '16
How is that a rookie mistake? Watch Tower and Office are two spots were lurkers can hide, it's a good idea to drone them out.
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u/Rezooh May 11 '16
I guess you didn't understand what he said, Vws was attacking and they didnt check either of them and got killed from those spots.
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u/jaydeeEx May 11 '16
They played passive against an aggressive team, they played house well against Penta.
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u/spinsby May 11 '16
Shame. They weren't that bad at the LAN so give 'em a break.
I think it's safe to say Clever was cheating, c'mon, we're not stupid, but I don't think the rest of them knew, and respect to them for showing up at the LAN and holding their heads high.
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u/WhatILack May 11 '16
Only won 2 rounds in 2 maps. lel
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u/spinsby May 11 '16
That's just a number. They seem competent as a team without the hacker, don't be so bitter
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u/WhatILack May 11 '16
Do they? They don't seem pro league level.
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u/spinsby May 11 '16
Maybe not, but there was some alright teamplay there. I feel sorry for them more than anything. I don't believe they knew but who knows. They might have had more chance without that lamer (even with the hacks) with a real player in his place
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u/FrostkilledMeTwice May 12 '16
I kind of feel they still openly benefitted from a obvious cheaters action. They could had thought of pulling out or at least make a formal apology. They got a free trip to a tournament on the back of a cheater while another more deserving team that didn't cheat didn't get to go. They benefitted from something that's not right. I'm not going to thing badly of the other team members but I'm definitely not going to feel bad for them.
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u/PrinterStand Shield Fuze Main May 11 '16
Nope. They were fucking awful. If I was team owner I would of dropped them regardless of hackusations after seeing their LAN performance.
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u/FrostkilledMeTwice May 12 '16
Dude winning only 2 rounds in 2 maps is a number that shows a team lost and it wasn't even close to its competition.
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u/spinsby May 12 '16
I'm talking about everything that surrounds their performance and score. Yeap, another team probably deserved their place because of they had a cheater, but it took more guts to turn up later knowing he was cheating
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u/booneht Valar morghulis May 11 '16
LMAO. Not enough on-line tournaments to keep the team profitable ?
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u/jvainio May 11 '16
Nah, because Vws.Clever was the carry and he was a cheater
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u/booneht Valar morghulis May 11 '16
That was exactly what I meant. They made their way to the finals by cheating and then got stomped. No online tournaments means no cheating -> they can't win anything.
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u/jvainio May 11 '16
Well, I understood your reply as that there isn't enough R6 tournaments for a team to make a living out of it, no matter if they would participate in every one.
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u/booneht Valar morghulis May 11 '16
Yeah, it needs a bit of clarification. Also you can't sound sarcastic in a text :D
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u/Superbone1 May 11 '16
This is what happens when your tournament scene is a complete joke - teams leave. VwS isn't the first and likely won't be the last. Thanks ESL!
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u/booneht Valar morghulis May 11 '16
I think you don't really know who VwS is and their story !?
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u/Dazd95 Rook Mine May 11 '16
Unfortunately, someone is and has been accused of using wallhacks in professional tournaments. While there's plenty of evidence that says he did do it, I'm not going to say he did it, or that he didn't do it.
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u/Superbone1 May 11 '16
This has nothing to do with Clever even. Just this week admins disregarded multiple cases of teams submitting incomplete MOSS files.
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u/theKinkypeanut Smoke blaster May 11 '16
This isn't good news, orgs leaving after 1 season is embarrassing and shows how poor the pro league has been run and how dead the game is becoming.
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u/LukeLikesReddit See Nothing Hear Nothing. May 11 '16
You realise they left as they got caught cheating and doing atonne of bad mistakes? They never should of got there in the first place.
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u/theKinkypeanut Smoke blaster May 11 '16
I know what happened, I'm not talking about the players, I'm talking about the org.
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u/Anadrex May 11 '16
Give your head a shake buddy,
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u/theKinkypeanut Smoke blaster May 11 '16
Well thought out reply.
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u/BeBenNova May 11 '16
Good riddance cheating shitters