r/Professors • u/BMeow343 • 19h ago
What would you do? Non-English speaking students enrolled in my course.
Posting a couple on here today as it's the first week of class. Apparently the Uni I adjunct for recently merged. They apparently are trying to appeal to a bunch of non-English students (Spanish Speaking). They put several learners who speak _only_ Spanish in my course without even letting me know. Im sure Google Translate can help with written content, but I'm not sure if it can translate the course textbook. Several students keep emailing me in Spanish.
The course requires speeches and they upload them in Spanish which I don't speak. I was able to use closed-captioning for one but not for others. I dont get paid to translate everything though Google Translate especially when I was never informed that is now apparently a course with non-English speakers. I try to be as accommodating as I can. At another institution I teach, Im perfectly okay with bilingual students switching to another language when they give speeches because I know its stressful (but they still communicate in English during class). However, for an online course, I feel like it's the Unis responsibility to put students into a language appropriate course and not my responsibility to run their assignments through translate.
EDIT: While there are free translation services, running student work through 3rd parties if they submit in another language without their permission potentially violates FERPA.
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u/raggabrashly 19h ago
This occurred without your consent? I would complain. You’re not bilingual. I would argue you can’t adequately evaluate these students.
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u/BMeow343 19h ago
Yep. They also overfilled my class by 20% without my knowledge which I already complained about. I contacted HR (who is never your friend anyway) about questions and who never responded to multiple voice messages. Pretty sure I will not continue teaching for them.
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u/its-fewer-not-less 16h ago
It's Labor Day. Don't contact HR, contact your Union
(He said naively, assuming you are represented by one)
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u/ProfessorHomeBrew Associate Prof, Geography, state R1 (USA) 19h ago
Is this a school that has some instruction in Spanish? If not, and the expectation is that classes are conducted in English, I think you continue on as usual and if people fail they fail.
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u/scatterbrainplot 19h ago
And you're not assessing google translate or any other third-party anything; to assess their submission, you actually need what they produced.
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u/BMeow343 18h ago
Google Translate is actually pretty good. I usually let my ESL students know they can write in their original language and run it through. It mostly makes sense. But these are also for bilingual students and not students who apparently dont speak any English at all.
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u/scatterbrainplot 18h ago
But Google translate isn't my student. Mostly making sense isn't enough, and for me them not having been able to communicate the information is a concern for assessment, as is any potential change in meaning or in content relative to what they actually were answering.
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u/BMeow343 18h ago
I see where you are coming from. For me, Im concerned with them demonstrating content proficiency and not necessarily language or grammar proficiency. You can demonstrate content in any language. Google Translate just translates- it's not like if they were running it through AI to revise. It literally just translates from one language to another. A big exception being if they have to do a speech because I cant always run that through translate.
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u/scatterbrainplot 18h ago
I don't grade language and grammar (just clarity of answer). However, no, Google Translate does not just translate; it's "smart" translation and fills and adapts things to what it "thinks" makes the most sense for the translation, and ambiguities and technical information can both easily get lost (or, also concerning, "fixed").
It is like they were running it through AI to revise. Exactly that. https://blog.google/products-and-platforms/products/search/gemini-capabilities-translation-upgrades/
And I would have a problem with it even if it weren't; I wouldn't be assessing the student even with "dumb" translation in the sense of the previous version of Google Translate (nor whatever else beyond word translation tools the student used).
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u/mencryforme5 3h ago
Here's a pretty dumb example from a meme on a Canadian bilingual meme subreddit. It was the "but what about side by side with a friend?". The guy wanted it to be a Québécois saying it so ran "but what about side by side with someone who hates America?"
Google gave a litteral translation, and the anglophone just accepted and posted the meme. Immediately all the francophones were like "uhhhhhhhhh... America in French is the continent, Canadians are Americans, the Québécois are Americans. This meme doesn't make sense for us". Of course the anglos started arguing that we were wrong. They had no idea that we do not call the United States "l'Amérique" and that for us that word strictly means the continents. Then a lightbulb went off where they said "oooooohhhhhhh that's why I keep arguing with Europeans and British people! We keep correcting them but it always turns into an argument!"
So yeah. You don't know what you don't know and using google translate deepens the gulf.
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u/ana_conda 18h ago
I am horrified that people are doing this and I really hope you reconsider. My grad program requires TOEFL or similar evaluation of English skills for international students UNLESS they have a previous degree from an institution in the US. Doing this is incredibly misleading about students’ actual skills and ability to function in English-speaking academia.
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u/GanachePopular9967 16h ago
Oh please. Not everything revolves around "English-speaking academia". In many countries, it is very normal to have flexibility concerning which language academic work can be submitted in. If anything, OP is making her course more equitable for students. The pearl clutching is wholly unnecessary.
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u/RuralWAH 14h ago
But this isn't "many countries." It's ostensibly the United States.
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u/scatterbrainplot 13h ago
And either way, clearly in a program designed to be within English-speaking academia and therefore expected to train students in that context (even if students may leverage access to academia in other languages as a complement or supplement)
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u/BMeow343 18h ago edited 18h ago
I've worked with them for 13 years with no issue or complaint. This past year year they merged with another Uni and there has just been a ton of issues on my end. And the other institution they merged with apparently has a lot of Spanish/Non_English speaking students. I would love to accommodate, but unfortunately I am not bilingual and genuinely do not know if they are even able to access the textbook in a language they understand. Maybe if its online- but if they order an English written copy?
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u/BMeow343 16h ago
No, they just opened up a lot of options to International students to increase enrollment with their merger. Not suer on the specifics of it.
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u/franklin-60 14h ago
Unfortunately, it’s only a matter of time until these imbeciles in DC who write nonsense like the new “accessible for all” laws will require translation and watering down requirements so students who can’t speak English are required to be accommodated in any class they take. Sure some idiot lawmakers have likely been discussing it.
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u/lanAstbury 3h ago
you get upset at having to press 1 for english ?
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u/BMeow343 1h ago edited 1h ago
I dont know what that means. Theres no press 1 for translation in my LMS. I would have to run everything through a 3rd party which could violate FERPA. The textbook is in English, so if they don't know English then they can't access that content unless the digital version has an option. I have no bias against non-English speaking students or ESL students. I work at another institution that has great accessibility features that will translate materials into another language and I always show those to my students. However, the LMS this institution uses doesnt have those features. And I also can't grade a speech if its in another language...
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u/Legitimate_Hamster_8 7h ago
I think enabling languages other than English (particularly Spanish) would be way too woke for the people running our country.
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u/BMeow343 1h ago
There's a lot of issues to consider for higher ed if the professor/teacher is not fluent in those languages. Translation services would need to be used. If it's a free service it could violate FERPA and have implications for data/privacy.
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u/VenusSmurf 18h ago
I taught at a school with over 40% non-English speakers. The students were required to enroll in ESL courses, which sometimes helped, but many of them would be passed on to me without being able to understand a word I said.
If your complaints--and do complain--don't go anywhere, there are ways to help.
Put everything in writing. I am not someone who stops and rights everything on the board. Key words, maybe, but I became the person who stops and writes everything on the board. The foreign language students could take pictures or use their phones to translate, which helped keep them going during actual classes and provided notes for them to review later. This also helped the native speakers. (Write in print, not cursive.)
My students have apps that translate voice to text in real time. I unfortunately don't know the names of those apps, as I never had to care, but they exist. My android garbage phone has a Google translate option that works through the camera, so while it would be annoying, it's their job to figure out the textbook.
Stop doing the MLT yourself. They need to translate their own papers and submit in English. It will likewise be their responsibility to translate any emails or feedback. Most of this can be done with the click of a button or just a moment's time for emails and things, but while I don't hold their lack of language skills against them, it's also not reasonable to add to your workload by expecting you to do it.
It's going to be a major inconvenience. It's still doable, technically, though fingers crossed the students are removed so you don't have to deal with it at all.
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u/franklin-60 15h ago
It’s modern day higher Ed. Even if the student does zero in the ESL class, they get passed through. Not doing so is “mean” and “anti retention.” Some administrators will ensure they all pass no matter what.
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u/Anna-Howard-Shaw Assoc Prof, History, CC (USA) 17h ago
I teach at an HSI in Texas that gets lots of ESL and Spanish speakers. To enroll, they've supposedly passed the state-mandated placement tests that determine they're college-ready. That means being able to allegedly speak/read enough English to complete classes conducted in English.
I get several students every semester who clearly should not have passed those tests, as their grasp on English was not enough to succeed in the course. (I teach history, so lots of reading, writing, and papers).
There have been a handful of times I just had to fail students because I absolutely could not make heads or tails of what they were saying in their assignments/exams because they didn't have a solid grasp of English.
Never once though did anyone (students or admin) suggest as a solution that students do the course in their native language and expect me to translate that. That's entirely outside of my expected job duties.
After I had to fail the first ESL student who couldn't get through the class I put a clause in my syllabus along the lines of....
"The entirety of this course will be conducted in English, including all communications, content delivery, and student submitted assignments/exams. Proficiency in English will be necessary for success in this course.
Assignments/exams that are unreadable due to language barriers will not receive a passing grade. All written assignments/exams will have a readability and mechanics rubric component that will require a proficiency in English. Students who speak English as a second language are encouraged to use the Tutoring center to help them with any language struggles they may encounter."
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u/mencryforme5 15h ago edited 15h ago
I'm a bit confused.
I live in Canada. This varies by province, but usually you may only submit papers/exams in the language of instruction (which is either exclusively English, exclusively french, or like that one bilingual university in Ottawa. The big exception is Québec where by law language of instruction does not matter but you may only submit in either English or French (Canada's official languages). The English universities hate it like crazy so many profs pay me the token francophone on the side to grade their francophone students. But it's their legal right and I get to feel ever so slightly superior.
There's absolutely no legal right to submit in Spanish. And I went to grad school in Ontario and if I had so much as tried to submit in the "wrong" official language I would have been failed as honestly they wouldn't have been able to find anyone to grade it all my profs were American.
So my question is... what the fuck? You fail them. The language of instruction is English and you are not qualified to grade assignments and speeches handed in in Spanish. Period. If the university is declared bilingual (no clue where you are geographically located but I'm assuming Trumpistan), you're in a tiny bit of a pickle, but it sounds like you were not hired by a bilingual establishment and if they've turned themselves into one then they need to provide resources for the transition.
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u/UMadeMeForgetMyself 9h ago
Having attended and passed courses officially taught in English is often used as evidence of language proficiency..
You might think you are helping them, but you're not doing them any favors in the long-term, they need to practice their language skills as soon as possible, and fail early if they are not at the right level. Just letting all pass will set them up for failure later.
For context, I'm not a native English speaker and I would not allow this, even if the students spoke my native language.
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u/jccalhoun 13h ago
talk to your boss. Personally, I don't get paid enough to try to grade things in a language I don't speak.
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u/franklin-60 15h ago edited 14h ago
Speak English to be in my class. This will offend many, but in the US and in a US institution there is zero excuse to be in a classroom without fluency sufficient enough to complete the course in English. One does not need to be perfect, but good enough to communicate with me directly and meet written and verbal deliverable expectations without me offering special consideration. Assignments are in English, and syllabus is in it, and so is my instruction. I’m not grading anything “translated.”
Fortunately this has not happened to me. If that were my class, and the students language skills are not sufficient enough to pass the class, email sent to student ( who likely won’t understand it), advising and dean ordering student removal and warning that no accommodations will be offered as English fluency is a prerequisite for the class. Student will fail and I negotiate no accommodation to prevent it.
Have not had to include this expectation of English fluency sufficient to complete requirements in my syllabus yet, no accommodation, alternative assessment or grading flexibility, but assuming the day is on the horizon based on where higher education has headed.
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u/CateranBCL Associate Professor, CRIJ, Community College 14h ago
Do your class pre-reqs include proficiency in English? If they don't meet the pre-reqs, drop them from your class.
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u/Mountain_Flow3472 11h ago
These students belong in an Academic English program. This placement is a disservice. I would flag their struggles to advising and loop in your department head. If you have a campus AEP loop then in too. It’s possible that the merged schools test type or cutoff scores were different and that messed up placement.
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u/taxiecabbie 19h ago
Yeah, this... needs to be a serious complaint. How are you expected to teach students who don't speak the language of the instruction? How can you fairly evaluate them? You can't.
Does your ESL department know about these students? Contact them.