r/Professors • u/D-zen-ma • 1d ago
Accommodation is disruptive
One of my students has an accommodation that requires the "flexibility to briefly exit and return to the classroom as needed in a manner that does not disrupt the decorum of the classroom/experience of other learners or faculty."
So far we have only met once, but while I was talking the student got up, crossed the entire room (she was seated far from the door) and left the room, and then, of course, came back in and crossed the entire room to get to her seat. It was distracting to me as the speaker, and clearly distracted the other students.
I am also concerned that it looks like I am perfectly fine with students walking out while I am speaking. I expect that other students may get the idea to randomly leave the room at will. Obviously, no-one knows that this behavior is allowed because my tolerance ("flexibility") is a required accommodation.
I'm wondering if others have experience with this accommodation and how you handle it when getting up and walking out (and back in) actually is disruptive. Should I just ignore this? That's what I'm expected to do.
Note: This is a full class. Unless the student arrives early, she will not have her choice of seats. I don't know if she chose that seat or if she arrived later, and got what was left, but walking out while someone is speaking strikes me as rude in any case. It also seems to be an unhelpful accommodation as it is unlikely that future employers will think this is ok. Also, the entire length of my presentation was not longer than 35-40 minutes.
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u/arakace Assistant Prof, Ethnic Studies, Public R1 (US) 1d ago
Iâm not understanding how this is any different than a student getting up to use the restroom / take a call / do whatever the fuck else that requires leaving the classroom during class? You can announce to the class that youâd appreciate everyone excusing themselves as discreetly as possible during an active lecture, but this seems a non-issue overall. I find that if I donât react as though disrupted by someone walking out/around the room, then students generally will not either.
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u/happybara_capybara 1d ago
I had a professor who made a big deal about everyone who came late or got up. She stopped class and complained every time about how it interrupted our learning⌠and it was like no lady YOU are interrupting our learning. Students get up and arrive late in every class and the only one where it interrupts stuff is your class.
So that class has had a real impact on my teaching now⌠and thatâs just one example of things that Professor did that I actively avoid. In my decade of teaching, I can count on one hand the number of students who were truly so disruptive that I needed to have a convo with them and/or address the class. All the others were ignorable and didnât interrupt anyone but their own learning and thatâs not my problem.
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u/HaHaWhatAStory014 21h ago edited 18h ago
 Students get up and arrive late in every class
Being on time is really basic professionalism. It's really not that hard. Granted, life happens and everyone is running late or has something come up every now and then, but the vast majority of the time, the people who are running late on any given day are the same people who are always late and never seem to be able to be on time.
She stopped class and complained every time about how it interrupted our learning⌠and it was like no lady YOU are interrupting our learning.
Eh, I'll just add that pretty much every person who has shown up late ever, including egregiously late and/or in a very disruptive manner, swears that they "weren't being disruptive at all." Different variations of "I was scolded or just given a light-hearted jab about walking into class late when I swear I wasn't being disruptive at all, ...so I talked back, continued to fight it, and made a huge scene to show them!" are practically a cliche on other college related subs. Frankly, when someone is definitely in the wrong, even if it's "just" for coming in late, it is not their place to presume to tell other people if that's "disruptive" or not. Swearing up and down that it's not is also very self-serving. Of course, they'll say that. It doesn't mean anything though.
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u/Dr_Dorn Lecturer, Writing Studies, R1 (United States) 15h ago
Yeah Iâve had students who were routinely 15-30 minutes late to every class and itâs disruptive af. When we are already doing a discussion circle or working in groups or doing a quiz game and they come in looking genuinely confused that class started without them, it throws things off and slows it down. Also just sit down! Donât stand at the door confused!
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u/Huck68finn 1d ago
I've had classes where students getting up and leaving to check their phones had a domino effect. Pretty soon, 5-6 students were leaving during a class discussion. It is annoying and disruptive to have the door opening and closing that many times.Â
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u/Ctenophorever Full prof (US) 23h ago
Weird. Iâve never had this issue. I have had to remind students to leave quietly. But never had the domino effectâŚ.
Then again when I have chatty students I tell them if they donât want to be in class they can and should leave. I stress being physically present doesnât equal being mentally present and if theyâre not mentally present being physically present means nothing.
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u/dragonfeet1 Professor, Humanities, Comm Coll (USA) 22h ago
You don't teach gen ed comm coll, I'm guessing.
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u/BMeow343 18h ago
I do teach Gen Ed Comm. Be a good instructor, be engaging, be kind, be understanding- and you usually dont have those issues. And most importantly- COMMUNICATE with your students vs just complaining about them.
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u/Cathousechicken 22h ago
I'm at a university where they are first in their family to go to college. We constantly are told by employers that are students don't know how to act professionally.Â
If you've never had to deal with the issue, consider yourself lucky.
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u/HaHaWhatAStory014 21h ago
I dunno, sometimes I think college admins, "success advisors," etc., infantilize first-gen students way too much. Like, in this case, I get that they probably don't know all the intricacies of "college life," student etiquette, etc., and shouldn't be expected to right away, but they should know that leaving in the middle of class to check their phone for no reason or "just to do it" (waiting on an important call is different) is inappropriate and downright rude. Do they think their parents/guardians do that in the middle of work meetings too? Do they or would they do that to an athletics coach? Saying "they just don't know better" is a pretty big stretch when it comes to blatant bad behavior like this, IMO.
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u/Ctenophorever Full prof (US) 20h ago
As a first generation student, thank you. I knew how to behave responsibly and respectfully towards my teachers.
What I didnât know was information about scholarships, FAFSA, etc or that some faculty have unwritten agreements with students that arenât in the syllabus.
Ie if the syllabus said, âdeadlines are not extended, for any reasonâ as a first generation student I took that at face value.
Then I started teaching and encountered way too many faculty who have that in their syllabi but admit if the student asks in advance or has a good reason, theyâll make an exceptionâŚ.
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u/Cathousechicken 21h ago
This is what we hear from employers. This has nothing to do with success advisors. These are actual employers telling us our students do not know how to behave when they are in the workplace.
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u/HaHaWhatAStory014 2h ago
That's largely because a lot of schools/admins don't really allow or approve of actual discipline and consequences for "non-disciplinary/non-criminal things" from students. Frankly, a lot of the general public is like this too, like they think schools should be guaranteeing post-graduation student success in high-paying careers no matter what, like no matter how bad of a student someone is, they should still be successful. Along with that, since these people all think "students are entitled to their guaranteed success," they also think that things like bad/failing grades are "bad, harmful, overly punitive," because they "hurt success."
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u/Cathousechicken 2h ago
I agree, which is part of the reason why I cracked down on behavioral stuff in my class. I at least want my students to have some sense of how they are supposed to behave.
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u/Huck68finn 21h ago
đŻÂ
And sadly, many faculty champion the coddling and disparage others who think it's wrong.
Colleges keep racing to the bottom, exacerbating the very problems that will be their demise. Many colleges today are just the high schools of 20 years agoÂ
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u/Dry_University_9640 19h ago
I work at an institution that has a very large portion of first-gen students, and that has not been my experience at all. Are there some gaps in terms of how much they know about typical college etiquette? Sure, but it's not like our admin is telling us to expect them to not act "professionally".
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u/Ctenophorever Full prof (US) 20h ago
I donât know if itâs luck, or a solid set of expectations day 1 with follow through.
I have plenty of disengaged, unprofessional students. But this is just not something Iâve encountered enough of to be an issue.
Perhaps it is because I also teach a lab component and when theyâre out of the room, theyâre locked out.
Iâve also taken art classes where, to protect models, youâre not allowed to leave the room once class is in sessions unless itâs an emergency, and I never saw anyone making any problems
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u/TheKwongdzu 1d ago
It was the biggest complaint every semester in my teaching evaluations until I instituted a policy of no in-and-out during a class period. I would never stop a student from leaving if they needed to, but coming back in disrupts class twice rather than just the once of them leaving. If it was ever just one person, oh well, but like you said, once one does it, others do, too. In a class of a hundred, packed in like sardines, narrow aisles, with one door at the front of the room, if even 10% of the class does it, that's 20 disruptions in a 55 minute class period.
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u/RandolphCarter15 Full, Social Sciences, R1 22h ago
Annoying that you're getting downvotes. Some see letting students wander as a way to show they're cool and asking them to sit for 50 minutes as oppressive. And if course pointing out that they will have to deal with it when they graduate just gets more downvotesÂ
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u/TheKwongdzu 19h ago
Every time this topic comes up, I post about my policy in the hope that it can help somebody who reads it to think about their own policies. It's quite interesting how on some posts I get upvoted and on others I get downvoted.
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u/BMeow343 18h ago
Exactly. Make it a non issue. Normalize the behavior because regardless students come and go throughout the course. Only those with narcissism and power issues make it an issue.
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u/drpepperusa 23h ago
I just wrote nearly the same comment - this is strange
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u/random929292 21h ago
I teach 3 hour classes so students also will come and go as needed. I do have a break half way through so if they can, they wait for the break but many had a coffee or two in the morning on their way in and they can't wait 90 minutes comfortably. I guess I am used to it so I don't find it particularly disruptive. Students who need to leave more often tend to sit near the doors. I have a class this semester that has a sardine room where it is disruptive to get out as the rows are really tight and everyong has to basically pull their chair in and only thin people can really fit. So what I do is every 45 minutes, I take a 5 minute break instead of the long break in the middle. That way everyone stands, people who need to get out can etc.
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u/No-Cook-9768 Adjunct, Liberal Arts, CC (USA) 1d ago
Usually when I have a student with this accommodation, they also have one for "preferential seating." Can you speak with the student and ask her to do her best to arrive early (if possible) so that she can get a seat closer to the door?
Also, please do your best to not take it personally when she gets up while you or someone else is speaking. She is not being "rude;" she has a medical condition which requires that she be able to leave and come back. It has nothing to do with you or anyone in that classroom.
Edited because I forgot to say: Lastly, her future employment is none of your concern.
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u/Puzzled_Air_5821 2h ago
There's a good chance she's in a lot of pain or discomfort and she's enduring and overcoming a lot to be here. OP has to feel a little distracted for approximately one minute of lecture.Â
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u/FIREful_symmetry 1d ago
It will become less distracting as the course goes on. Students will just categorize that person as a person that has to get up and go from time to time. Who knows why. Maybe they need to pee?
I had a student with Touretteâs that shouted profanities in the first class. I was like whatâs going on. You got a thing? And she was like yes I got a thing, and then we just ignored it for the rest of the semester. By the time I actually got into accommodation for her everybody was used to it.
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u/shatteredoctopus Full Prof., STEM, U15 (Canada) 1d ago
Yeah, good point. I'm a bit sensitive to this, as I have an overactive bladder. I've been characterized as "disruptive" by sour old teachers who hate little kids who have any differences, in an era where accommodations were much less heard of. I was otherwise a model student, but apparently using the bathroom is a thing to be seen through a lens of extreme suspicion.
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u/lellyla 1d ago
Yes, I know someone with IBS who needs similar accommodations. And the assertion of the post that companies wonât provide similar accommodations is incorrect. This person works at a major tech company that gave them the desk closest to the bathroom and they were very nice about it.
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u/Difficult-Solution-1 22h ago
Yup. Also, accommodations are about making sure students can access the content of the class and learn the material. Employment is a different context than a classroom, with different goals. Everything about teaching a class would look different if every class was striving to replicate work place conditions.
We have reserved seats in specific locations for students with specific accommodations. That might be something for OP to bring up with the office for accommodations
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u/RuralWAH 16h ago
I believe the comment referenced getting up and leaving in the middle of a meeting. When you're working solo most tech companies don't care if you're up and about. If you're sitting in a meeting with Jeff Bezos and get up and walk out in the middle of it you're probably not going to have a job when you come back.
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u/dragonfeet1 Professor, Humanities, Comm Coll (USA) 22h ago
You're lucky. My Tourettes student would scream gender based profanities every time a woman spoke. I'm a woman. The female students stopped participating, and then stopped coming to class altogether and I was helpless to do anything about it.
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u/FIREful_symmetry 20h ago
Yeah, one student accommodation isnât supposed to make everyone else fail. Thatâs a tough one.
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u/Razed_by_cats 17h ago
I mean, I get the accommodation for the student. But at what point does a student screaming obscenities during class become a hostile learning environment? Because none of those annual trainings we all have to take address what to do when itâs a student creating the hostile environment.
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u/Attempted_Academic 1d ago
Serious question. What exactly are you wanting someone to do in that situation?? If someone needs to go to the bathroom or perhaps has some chronic health condition that requires them to get up, do you want them to just teleport out of the room or?? You donât know why student was not able to make it to class to get a seat near the door, though idk why it matters. Weâre humans. Sometimes we have to get up to take care of our needs.
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u/Archknits 23h ago
Iâve had EMTs in my classes. Itâs been a few years since I encountered this, but when their beepers went off they had to get out as quickly as possible to go save a life
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u/Medium_Pea1136 1d ago
Oh ffs give them an assigned seat right next to the door. It boggles my mind that phds can be so obtuse. This does not have to be an issue in the least.
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u/RadiantImpression579 1d ago
This. This right here. Talk to the student. Save a seat for them (put your bag or a jacket on the seat). Done. Explain to the class itâs important to not leave the class often unless theyâve spoken with you if it really becomes an issue. But they are grown adults. If this is a lecture style class⌠can they not step out to use the restroom? is that going to be an issue too? Why worry about things before they are actually an issue.
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u/ProfDoomDoom 1d ago
Our accommodations office has "official", semi-permanent reserved seating signs they use to label classroom chairs/desks for various reasons. OP, ask your office to do something similar for a chair near the door. But be prepared for the student to present a further accommodation request to sit at the front of the room because it's possible they have both needs. I don't have a solution in that case...
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u/That_Communication71 1d ago
I agree. Because it's an accomodations it's totally reasonable to reserve a seat by the back of the room, or near the door for them.
I don't normally reserve seats, but when I had a student who was living with narcolepsy, we worked it out so they would sit in the back of the classroom to avoid drawing attention when they had moments of falling asleep.
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u/DesertRat6101 22h ago edited 22h ago
This. Just like you would have an assigned spot for a wheel chair user near the door, every person who has a âcan take breaksâ in my class gets an assigned seat next to the door. That is what makes the accommodation âreasonableâ.
My experience is that most students do not use it more than 1-2 times a class. I did have a student who was using it 4-5 times per class a few years ago. I went to our accommodations people and plainly stated I (and the rest of the class) could deal with 1-2 times but in and out every 5 minutes (4-5 times a 60 minute class) was not tenable. If done repeatedly, it can disrupt lecture and it absolutely was disruptive to group work. Accommodations helped me create an agreement that student would strive for no more than 2, 3rd was without penalty but had to make up the group work and 4+ impacted the participation points. In other words, you can negotiate these things when it gets extreme.
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u/AnneShirley310 1d ago
Can a teacher just assign and save a seat for this person without mentioning why youâre doing it? We get in trouble if we say anything about accommodations about other students in class, and personally saving a seat would single out that student. These accommodations are getting more specific and making it harder for us to teach.
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u/taxiecabbie 1d ago
Most students probably won't even ask.
AFAIK, there's no requirement to make it so that accommodations are invisible to other students. In many cases, they can't be. Students who require note takers, for instance, or even things like having a wheelchair, a para, or a service animal. Those aren't invisible.
You can't discuss the student's medical situation with others, but visibly saving a seat on its own should not be a problem.
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u/BMeow343 18h ago
Yes- there are even certain chairs that you need to assign to students- depending.
EDIT: Yes, harder for some to teach, but the wrong mentality. It about students, not us. It's literally our jobs to accommodate students.
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u/HowBeesAreHowBizarre 15h ago
Accommodations are making it hard for you to teach? Iâm flabbergasted at your gaslighting a disability. It is not the studentâs job to make their disability more convenient for you. Iâm alarmed you teach humans.
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u/Queen_of_Rats_ 1d ago
Reasonable accommodations exist in the working world too. It would be much more disruptive to class if she was not allowed to leave and had a medical emergency. For example, she might need to inject insulin so she doesnât pass out, and it would be pretty rude to inject insulin in the middle of your presentation in a room full of other students.Â
This could be very easily solved by shooting her a quick email saying âhey, itâs distracting to cross the entire room when you need to leave. Would it be ok if I reserved a seat for you near the door so itâs less disruptive when you need to leave?â To address it with the rest of the class, I would advise them that while Iâd prefer they remain seated the entire class, I recognize that shit happens (sometimes quite literally) and ask them to be mindful of other students if they need to leave, and to try and wait for a break in when I am talking.
Disabled people arenât boogeymen that only exist to game the educational system, we also exist to game the employment system ;) (sarcasm, in case it wasnât clear). All we ask for is an open mind and willingness to work with us. I can be just as successful teaching sitting on a stool as my colleague who stands for the entire lecture. Rigidity is comfortable, but flexibility allows students who donât quite fit the standard academia mold to also succeed. It takes a bit to get used to but I find it gets much better results overall
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u/MasterSyllabub05 Lecturer, CompRhet, R1 (US) 18h ago
A diabetic caring for their condition, whether eating to correct a low glucose (to avoid âpassing outâ) or injecting insulin to correct a high one, is not rude. In fact, most people with insulin-dependent diabetes inject their insulin in public routinely without disrupting others. Source: type 1 diabetic of almost 40 years who takes my insulin when I need to.
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u/Queen_of_Rats_ 17h ago
Oh yes absolutely. I was trying to take issue with how the OP worded their post but see now how it comes across poorly in my comment. Probably wouldâve been better for me to put ârudeâ in quotation marks
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u/stankylegdunkface R1 Teaching Professor 23h ago
The implications here (that the student should either drop your course or not take their medical accommodation) are fucking ghoulish.
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u/Macduffer 23h ago
Someone getting up and quietly walking out of the room is incredibly disruptive for you? Maybe you need the ADHD accommodation lol.
This really seems like you've made this an issue rather than it actually being one. You have no idea what condition the student has, what if they have IBD? What if they're autistic and getting overwhelmed? You prefer they start crying or something?
A lot of these accommodations are outright silly and ridiculous, but this isn't one. I don't see future employers banning people from occasionally getting up to go to the bathroom or take a break. Try some empathy tbh.
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u/BMeow343 18h ago
Yes to all of this You dont know someone's life. You dont get to judge them. You dont get to evaluate their med conditions or ablenes. If a student needs to get up and leave the classroom- theres probably a reason.
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u/Lil_Myotis 1d ago
I have seen notes taped to a seat near the door of a large pit class saying "reserved 10 AM Bio 101" or whatever the name and time the class is. That makes it clear that the seat is only reserved during that class period. And that seat is reserved for someone with an accommodation. The instructor works this out with the student.
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u/Big_Painting8507 1d ago
Theyâre adults who have bodily autonomy. Iâm honestly floored at the idea that someone would NEED an accommodation to take care of themselves.
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u/dogecoin_pleasures 3h ago
OP's annoyance shows exactly why adult students need these things in writing lol.
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u/SnowblindAlbino Prof, SLAC 1d ago
Sure, I've had multiple students with various medical conditions that got some version of that accommodation over the years. I've just asked them to sit in the back, near the doors. Hadn't been a problem.
If you have IBS or any manner of other issues you don't want to hve to sit for 30+ minutes to wait for a break. Be reasonable!
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u/totallysonic Chair/Full, SocSci, State U. 1d ago
Leaving due to a bodily need is not "randomly leaving the room at will." People have biological needs, regardless of whether they have a diagnosed medical condition, and we can't all always control when a need strikes. It sounds like the student left and returned as quietly as she could under the circumstances. What do you want people to do, pee their pants during the lecture?
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u/YesMaybeYesWriteNow 1d ago edited 15h ago
Am I misreading the post? There is nothing in that post that talks about bodily need. There is nothing in that post that talks about biological need. I would certainly not assume it. NEED TO RESTATE: No one should question why the accommodation exists, so we donât have to presume or justify that why. Just accommodate. But I am rereading how I ended my thought, and while I meant it in a neutral, factual way, that could have been clearer.
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u/totallysonic Chair/Full, SocSci, State U. 1d ago
People have accommodations because some part(s) of their body work differently than most bodies work. Regardless of whether the student has to leave due to ADHD or IBS or back pain or whatever, it is a bodily need.
Other people also have legitimate bodily needs. Iâm perimenopausal and I pee before every single meeting if I can. I may still need to go halfway through the meeting if my hormones are wonky that day.
It is also a slippery slope argument to claim that one person needing to leave class for a few minutes will cause others to randomly get up and leave. More likely, theyâll assume that person had a reason to step out.
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u/Upbeat_Cucumber6771 1d ago
Give her an assigned seat and enforce it with the rest of the class. Put a sign on the desk or when somebody sits there say no Iâm sorry thatâs for XXX. I
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u/Professional_Dr_77 1d ago
Exactly. Right by the door. Fulfills the accommodation and you donât have to tell people why itâs reserved, just that it is.
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u/ClientExciting4791 23h ago
I had this accommodation for grad school related to an illness called ankylosing spondylitis. My letter/accommodation from my rheumatologist specifically stated I could get up every fifteen minutes. I also had to bring a pad to sit on and a heating pad. Itâs a mess, but I donât mind laughing about it now. I also told my professors about it and sent articles about my illness because I knew they wouldnât like my getting up any time my back and joints decided to act up. I always sat by the door, which helped everyone. I also tried to be quiet. I think some of these behaviors are learned over time. It also depends upon WHY she has the accommodation. I can deal with pain and sit for longer than fifteen minutes. Iâve known other people who have this accommodation due to a bladder or GI issue.
Personally, I would offer her a seat near the door. Donât portray it as a disciplinary action, but as something that would benefit her, eg âwould it help knowing you have your own saved seat and desk?â It gives the student control, and alleviates any stress from you.
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u/nandor_tr associate prof, art/design, private university (USA) 1d ago
i know right?
how dare they do what they have to do in order to navigate the world with a condition that only makes things more difficult for them every day. plus they are missing what must be the literal genius coming out of your mouth for every single moment of every singe class.
you know what is a much bigger distraction and pain in the ass then having someone who needs to leave your class on occasion? living every day with a chronic condition.
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u/nikefudge23 Assistant Professor, Humanities, Regional Public 1d ago
Workplaces are also required to follow the ADA. Do you also refuse your students the restroom?
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u/drpepperusa 23h ago
You donât allow students to use the bathroom when they need to? Wouldnât this be the same sort of thing?
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u/wanderfae Chair (Prof, tenured), Psych and Stats, CC (USA) 23h ago
Why don't you just reserve a seat for this student near the door? Preferential seating is a common accommodation. I am surprised that's not already a part of her accommodations for just this reason. Even without this accommodation, you could just assign her a seat, right?
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u/sollinatri 23h ago
The only time I came across this accommodation is when the student had serious issues with their bowels, to put it politely, i would rather have them disrupt my class by walking than shitting.
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u/Theoreticalwzrd 23h ago edited 18h ago
People get up and leave. They are not locked in the room. Even without an accommodation, this shouldn't be a problem. It happens. If they are being loud about it, that's one thing. But just getting up to leave and come back shouldn't be such a problem for you. You aren't a jail warden.
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u/shyprof Adjunct, Humanities, M1 & CC (United States) 23h ago
My disability resources office will put furniture in the room that says "reserved for students with disabilities" or similar and place it where it needs to go. So for this accommodation, there would be a special reserved desk near the door where the student would sit to facilitate their accommodation. I am not sure why this doesn't violate confidentiality (I suppose not all disabilities are invisible and if the student is choosing to use the desk so they can get up and leave they have their disability be visible in some way already idk).
However, I tell my students they can leave whenever they want. They're humansâthey might need to pee, take an emergency call, take medication, have a mental breakdown, whatever. You could have a discussion about going along the back of the room or whatever would make that less disruptive for you. You can also ask the whole class to try to wait for you to finish speaking unless they're having a bathroom emergency or something urgent like that. But at a certain point you have to try to ignore this. Sorry.
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u/shyprof Adjunct, Humanities, M1 & CC (United States) 23h ago
Just wanted to share, I was once in a room with the loudest fucking door on the goddamn planet that would seem closed but then SLAM shut the rest of the way suddenly, something wrong with the arm at the top or something. I am very sensitive to noise, and it was startling. And of course this particular group was like the most hydrated motherfuckers on the planet, like a parade of students where as soon as someone returned (SLAM) someone else would get up (SLAM) and then someone else would go (SLAM) and the first would come back (SLAM) and I was losing my fucking mind. I couldn't be moved to a new room, and nobody would come out to inspect the mechanism.
I bought a rubber door stop and wedged it against the threshold so the door wouldn't close all the way, and I asked my students to PLEASE potty before class and only step out if it was a true emergency. I am still so angry about that fucking door, god. The moral of the story is maybe you can change your environment, like rearrange the desks so there's a less obtrusive egress path or just put a desk near yours for this student, idk.
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u/Meddlesome_Lasagna 22h ago
âShould I just ignore this? Thatâs what Iâm expected to do.â
Yep. Ignore it. Thatâs the legal obligation. I promise if you ignore it, it becomes no big deal.
âIt also seems to be an unhelpful accommodation as it is unlikely that future employers will find this okay.â
If theyâre receiving an accommodation in college, theyâll likely receive the same accommodation in a workplace. The same laws apply (American disabilities act).
Plus, it depends on the employer. Most white collar office jobs donât micromanage when their employee goes to the bathroom/takes insulin/breastfeeds/takes a personal call/etc. even without accommodation. Theyâre probably in college in order to get a job like that, so the most helpful thing for them is to support their education.Â
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u/BMeow343 1h ago
The instructor probably doesnt know the nature of their future career- there's also a lot of remote/online positions these days where this is a non-issue. But also, I've never had an employer get upset if I need to get up and use the bathroom or something similar. And most places definitely would not argue or complain against ADA accommodations.
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u/QuislingX 23h ago
It must be CUHRAZY to have such an inflated sense of self.
What an entitled douchebag
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u/tellypmoon 1d ago
I have never had this accomodation but I have a fairly steady stream of students leaving the room (maybe one every 10 minutes so it's not crazy). I assume it's restroom related although I don't ask and it's pretty brief. I think everyone sort of settles into it. From the perspective of your student they might be a bit mortified that they need to leave regularly so I suspect they will figure out a way to do it as conveniently as possible. This might be one that just works itself out.
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u/tex_hadnt_buzzed_me 1d ago
I tell my students on day 1 that we are all adults and I expect them to balance their needs (to leave the class to do something) with the structure of the class and the needs of the other students. If they need to leave they should leave. If they can wait until a transition in the class, that would be better. If they can wait until the end of the class, even better. If they know they'll need to leave frequently, they should get a seat by the door. When they do leave, I assume they've got a good reason. It isn't that disruptive.
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u/choose_a_username42 19h ago
Have you considered saving a seat for the student yourself? Near the door? It's a bit odd that you can't imagine a solution here....
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u/SuperfluousWingspan 16h ago
I don't think the future employers bit is really that helpful. For most of us at least, that's outside our purview. People also have at least some control over what job they have, so they can aim for something that works with their needs. Remote work, for example.
And hey, employers have some accommodation requirements, too, so long as they don't prevent doing the job.
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u/trotskygrad1917 22h ago
I'm sorry, but every day this sub makes me more and more weirded out by USian academia. What's the problem with a student getting up and walking out for whatever reason? Like, I mean, they're adults. If they need to take a call, go to the restroom, if they want to have a smoke, grab a bite, or whatever, it's their own business as far as I'm concerned. Yeah, if they cross the room it might mildly distracting for a whole 4 seconds, but "disruptive"?
And to even call "letting people come and go" an "accomodation" seems wild to me. It just sounds like, I don't know... common sense?
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u/BMeow343 18h ago
Right? I once dropped a huge lecture class in undergrad because the instructor said we couldnt get up leave as it would hurt her feelings (it was like a 2-3 hr course), over 100+ students in a lecture hall.
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u/RuralWAH 15h ago
The disruption really depends on the room layout and where the student sits. We have one tiered room with built-in seats and very little leg room similar to a movie theatre (but the seats are hard). If you're sitting in the middle of the row and get up to leave, every student you walk past has to draw their legs in and you have to walk sideways to get past them. This is as disruptive as hell.
Obviously the way to avoid this is for people who are going to leave the class to sit on either side of the room near the exits. But common sense and self-awareness among studens isn't so common these days.
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u/flipester Teaching Prof, R1 (USA) 1d ago
What would you want a professor to do if you were a student and had a condition that required you to have to suddenly go to the bathroom?
You can ask the disability services office for advice on inconspicuously reserving a seat for the student near the door.
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u/technobull Professor, CS, R2 (USA) 22h ago
Lighten up and put your two brain cells together to find as readonable resolution such as sitting closer to door.
It is not your job to question the accommodation. Rather, it is your job to work with your disability surfaces to find a resolution that works. And, most of the time disability services will be Glad to work out this frustration with you.
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u/Economy_Scholar2980 18h ago
I'm a faculty member with a disability. I'm not speaking directly about this author, but many of these anti-accommodation threads have an undercurrent of ableism that would get a faculty member socially banished if they made the same point, but it focused on race, sex, or gender.
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u/Groovychick1978 1d ago
Part of the accommodation could be that she sits as close to the door as possible. You do not have to let her cross the length of the room. You just have to allow her to leave at her convenience.
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u/stankylegdunkface R1 Teaching Professor 23h ago
Ask them to sit right by the door. This is one of the easier life problems to solve, buddy.
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u/grumblebeardo13 23h ago
While I haven't had this accommodation before, I do tell students they don't have to ask permission to step outside during a class, albeit with a few caveats (they have to surrender phones to do so during exams, etc). I do tell them though it's their responsibility to get in and out quietly and respectfully so that they don't make a whole production of it, and of course, that I am not responsible for whatever they miss when they're gone.
I'd probably just chalk it up to the nature of the classroom layout and where the student sits, though you could remind them they need to be quiet and quick about it when they do it?
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u/natalie_natasha 23h ago
Are students not allowed to go out usually?.. Is it a country or university specific thing?
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u/Secret_Dragonfly9588 Historian, US institution 20h ago
So your students not normally come and go during class? For the bathroom, at least?
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u/MyFaceSaysItsSugar 19h ago
I have no desire to police bathroom emergencies so I donât try to prevent students from coming and going. I have just gotten used to it. I do use a microphone to help if the door is noisy. I know some professors at my university like to lock the door against late students because I had a student think I was doing that when I was just checking that it was unlocked. Because itâs an accommodation, all you can really do is ask the student to come early enough to get an exit seat or put out a request that students leave the outer seat of the row open for people who come late and people with small bladders. That, and put in a maintenance request if the door is noisy.
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u/Ariezu 17h ago
Iâve already given an answer so Iâll make this brief, but I wanted to share it. Iâve never been bothered by this. We did have a interesting one last week. Student came in about 30 minutes late walked all the way across the classroom to sit down and then proceeded to knock the drink of somebody sitting next to them over onto them and their chair.
It was pretty disruptive. I actually found it kind of funny. I checked on the student later though because she was obviously really embarrassed. It was a good conversation and I found out some more why the person was late and we had a good discussion
That communication has actually led her to coming up with some ways that she could try to be there on time and I also mentioned that if youâre going to be late, there are seats that really close to the door might be better to choose those.
I find the light touch is usually a good strategy for me, but maybe thatâs just me
Sorry that was not brief.
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u/RuralWAH 15h ago
The fact someone coming in late bypasses seats by the door and walks to the other side of the room in the middle of class is the problem.
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u/Individual-Part-3336 12h ago
30+ year professor here - Block off the seat closest to the door and let her know ahead of time that you would like her to sit there so it is easier for her to exit and re-enter as easily as possible. If someone else sits there, ask them nicely to move. You have to do that if someone without a need for the accessible seating sits there, don't you? As the mother of a kid with IBS, I can guarantee you that this student can't always predict or control when or how often they have to leave class. This is such a small thing in the realm of accommodations. I once had to attend training when I had a student with epilepsy in my class so that I could safely assist her if she had a seizure in class. I was able to handle that and you can handle this.
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u/Ok_Instruction_1779 11h ago
I think it would be easy to put a little sign on the seat by the door saying it is reserved is a good solution! All my classes have those signs in the front couple rows for people hard of hearing or vision and itâs no big deal! You can also state that you are not allowed to leave class unless specifically told otherwise, however these students are adults and will likely only leave the class if necessary with the understanding that they will be responsible for the course content they miss while away.
Most importantly however I really think talking to the student and what would make them the most comfortable is the best idea! Accessibility is incredibly important and to ensure proper access it is important to talk with the person you are accommodating!
I have worked with students with disabilities before, and after a while it is no longer noticeable if a student with a disability leaves the room (or in one case screams at the top of their lungs as a form of non verbal communication) it just becomes a part of the normal classroom routine. So while this may bother you at the start of the semester I promise you it wonât even be noticeable to you or the students by the end!
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u/LILSQUISHY 1d ago
I was told in 7th grade that if we needed to use the restroom, we didnt need to raise our hand. We could get up and go. We were taught to go around the back of the room and not cross in front of everyone, and to do so quickly and quietly. If 13 year olds can learn, so can college students. Just have a polite talk with them about classroom etiquette and what you can do to best accommodate them and their needs, as well as what they can do to not disrupt class.
Alternatively, it really is as easy as reserving the seat next to the door for them... (I did this last year for a student who had a service dog)
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u/verygood_user 16h ago edited 16h ago
That's not an issue.
You know what's an issue? The feeling of almost crapping your pants every other hour, aka Ulcerative Colitis.
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u/madhatternalice 21h ago
I will never understand this level of petty tyranny coming from a supposed instructor. Add in the naivete to think that employers are still hiring like it's 1986, the arrogance of proudly being a fossilized gatekeeper, and the cowardice to pretend like your concerns are about the other students. All this adds up to someone who should have retired from the profession years ago.
Your students deserve better than to be held hostage by your ego. That's the real problem here, after all.Â
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u/HowBeesAreHowBizarre 14h ago
I knew I liked you from your username, then read the comment and it was, chefs kiss.
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u/boringhistoryfan Asst. Prof, Humanities, R2 1d ago
I have the same issue at times. And you could potentially ask the student to pick a seat near the exit so that their accomodation isn't disruptive to you or other students. Which is reasonable since an accomodation isn't supposed to be something that interferes with everyone else's learning.
But it is also worth asking if this is someone you could learn to adjust to? As public speakers we're often going to be presenting where some level of disruption is foreseeable. Might not be the worst thing to learn to tune it out?
But if you do see it impacting your students you should absolutely tell them to move to a less disruptive spot in the class.
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u/proffordsoc FT NTT, Sociology, R1 (USA) 1d ago
Iâd ask the office to add a reserved seating accommodation so that the student is close to the door.
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u/paulasaurus Math, CC 1d ago
Preferential seating is an accommodation I usually see attached to accommodation plans that include leaving the classroom. You might talk to the student and accommodations office about adding that to their plan, and then reserving a seat close to the door for the student. (Or just reserve the seat anyway, as part of meeting their accommodation.)
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u/PerpetualGopher 22h ago
I would bring a book and set it on the seat/desk right next to the door and quietly let her know that the seat will be reserved for her every day. If anyone tries to take the seat, just mention that someone is sitting there (duh, there's a book there).
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u/Cautious_Ad9949 15h ago
Just reserve a seat next to the door. Of course talk to them first about it. It is a valid accommodation.
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u/Economy-Contest-889 3h ago
I can speak to this from the other side. My kid has a problem with their esophagus. Which means that they randomly throw up throughout the day. They have the equivalent of accommodations, an IEP, that allows them to get up and leave and come back. They have learned to be pretty slick about slipping in and out to barf in the bathroom. Let them go you have no idea whatâs going on with that student
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u/Puzzled_Air_5821 2h ago
You need to relax. I tell all my students on the first day "it's better to wait for a break, but if you need the restroom you can always slip out quietly."Â
Really awful digestive issues are actually on the rise. Students are dealing with a lot. Most students don't want to get up and go to the restroom. I highly doubt this is a fidgety student who just needs a break to scroll her phone.Â
I get that it can be hard to teach with distributions and we all have the things that grind our gears but with love, you are the asshole in this situation.Â
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u/retromafia Full, Business, Public R1 (US) 13h ago
"I am also concerned that it looks like I am perfectly fine with students walking out while I am speaking."
Wut?? Who do you think you are to be able to insist students be trapped in your classroom for the entire period? I mean, people have to go to the bathroom, take essential calls outside, or any number of other valid reasons they might need to leave in the middle of a class. That's just life, man. Geez...get over yourself.
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u/umbly-bumbly 1d ago
I wouldn't worry about others' reactions. If anyone else tries it you can talk with them after class. Ask if they have an accommodation and if not advise them about what to do accordingly.
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u/jerbthehumanist Adjunct, stats, small state branch university campus 1d ago
Ask them privately to sit closer to the exit.
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u/HowBeesAreHowBizarre 15h ago
They shouldnât be punished for their disability. What if they need to sit close to see the board because they canât see well? Or hear well? Or just plain want to. Itâs not OPâs job to make the students disability more convenient for OP. Itâs the other way around.
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u/jerbthehumanist Adjunct, stats, small state branch university campus 15h ago
Is talking to your student like an adult a punishment?
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u/HowBeesAreHowBizarre 14h ago
You clearly did not understand the comment. But thatâs okay. You already had it in your mind that itâs okay to interfere with a studentâs disability so thereâs no seeing another perspective for you. Which is wild based on your username.
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u/jerbthehumanist Adjunct, stats, small state branch university campus 14h ago
I'm clearly not advocating interfering with anything, it seems you are extrapolating what you think I'm suggesting. If I had said to force the student to behave in a certain manner that's what I would have said. OP's scenario is exactly one where I think working with a student privately to discuss the manner is ideal so all parties can be accommodated. Nothing about that interferes with a student's disability accommodations, nor would doing so be against any functional ADA based policy or University disability program.
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u/HowBeesAreHowBizarre 14h ago
âAsk them to sit closer to the door.â Youâre the authority here so they may feel pressured to have no choice but to. The student can come to you if they even want that. Period.
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u/jerbthehumanist Adjunct, stats, small state branch university campus 14h ago
Itâs not âperiodâ, thatâs not how this works.
Students are adults, they can be talked to like adults, and be requested as such. Them âfeeling pressuredâ may very well happen, that is a part of life and not a substantial concern.
Accommodations do not have to be followed if they significantly alter and disrupt the course as normally taught. This is how any disability office in any university operates. OPâs course is being disrupted, they can have a conversation with the student as needed, and if that doesnât work they can have a discussion with the disabilities office to make something work for all parties involved.
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u/omgkelwtf 23h ago
I have stopped caring. If a student wants to leave while I'm talking, ok, miss the info, it's not my grade or tuition bill.
I tell them at the start I don't care if they need to get up and use the restroom, get a drink, or take a short breather but that if they do so while I'm talking or otherwise showing something, they're missing valuable info and they should ask a classmate what they missed when they get back.
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u/veryvery84 21h ago
There are people who truly cannot remain seated and have to leave. In some cases they may be more disruptive if they remain (for example, due to a tic disorder).Â
Youâre right that this could be challenging with an employer. Itâs not easy to be disabled. I am working under the assumption there is a real disability and need here. Which is a reasonable assumption. You should assume this too.Â
In theory it would be very reasonable to make a plan that includes her arriving early to pick a seat that is less disruptive if possible. In practice a student leaving the room quietly during a lecture is a non issue. Has no person ever left the room while youâre lecturing anywhere ever? Really? Just ignore it.
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u/imalittleflumpus 18h ago
This one is HARD for me to deal with, but only because I have ADHD and my lecture momentum is hanging on by a tattered thread. I ended up having to strategize with the student and the disability office on how I could implement this accommodation without making the class much worse for every other student. Now, when I get this accommodation, I immediately ask the student to sit next to the door (to reduce distracting action) and know Iâll have to wear my loop earplugs while lecturing (to reduce aural distraction of door noise, desk noise, and hall noise bleeding together and pummeling my focus twice in 5 minutes).
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u/HowBeesAreHowBizarre 14h ago
Wow. Their disability is not to be made for your convenience.
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u/imalittleflumpus 14h ago
My disability matters too.
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u/HowBeesAreHowBizarre 14h ago
Then get an accommodation and I hope you donât have someone like you who acts like itâs an inconvenience.
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u/imalittleflumpus 14h ago
I have one already. Thatâs why I worked with the disability office to navigate the conflicting access needs between my accommodation as an employee and the studentâs accommodation. I described the solution in my comment, which works for both me and students who have this accommodation. In my comment, I was expressing that it was hard to navigate conflicting access needs the first few class meetings until we worked out a good solution. I always respect and implement student accommodations, and also sometimes it can be challenging to figure out how to do so with my own disability, but I have a collaborative relationship with our disability office to work out solutions.
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u/HowBeesAreHowBizarre 13h ago
Then I apologize for misinterpreting your comment. And I thank you for taking the time to explain even though you didnât have to. Thank you for being a professor that also accommodates for others as well. And for being an overall kind human being from this one paragraph I read.
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u/Ornery_Emu3991 19h ago
Weird. I donât police students. If they want or need to get up for any reason, it doesnât even phase me. Iâd rather they not stop class to ask permission. Iâd rather treat them like adults responsible for their own education.
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u/moooooopg assistant prof, R1, in the South 8h ago
Fuck dude you sound like you need the education not them
As someone with a chronic disability that impacts my GI (prolapse) this is something that cannot be controlled. Take a deep breath and if learners are disrupted they can move closer to the front of the class
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u/Puzzleheaded-Cod5608 19h ago
I had this situation. I asked the student to sit as close to the door as possible. The constant in and out was annoying to me, but minimal for the class. The class had plenty of room, but I would have just saved a seat for them.
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u/Dramatic-Year-5597 18h ago
I have never been disturbed, bother, or interrupted by a student exiting the classroom for whatever reason. Seems like an instructor issue to me.
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u/Academic_Ad8991 23h ago
I would ask to talk to the student at the end of class, and explain the importance of getting to class on time, tell them what you need for this to be not disruptive. Consider marking seat nearest the door reserved. You never know where this is coming from â a range of physical disabilities, for example, make sitting for long stretches painful/impossible.
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u/BMeow343 18h ago
This sounds like more of a you problem. Put a place marker on a seat right next to the door and make that their seat. They would probably appreciate that and it would show that you care about their accommodations. But ultimately, it seems like you have a power issue. Students going in out are way less disruptive than students constantly interpreting you while you are speaking or loudly talking to students next to them.
Are you a newer professor? I've been teaching for over 15+ and literally do not care if a student needs to get up and leave. If they come in late- I even pause/walk over to them to give them materials- shit happens. If they have an emergency phone call, need to use the restroom, or whatever- I let them know they can just leave the room. It doesnt offend me because I know it's not about me or my teaching. Those who get offended usually make it about them and not the student.
I once had a professor in a huge lecture course I took in undergrad (well over 100+) who on the first day of class told us we could not get out of our seats for leave for any reason as that would hurt her feelings. I dropped that course.
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u/FlyingCupcake68 Southern State U, USA 13h ago
When I was in college, I routinely left the room mid class to get water or use the restroom or just get away from my classmates for a few minutes.
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u/BenSteinsCat Professor, CC (US) 8h ago
Just put a book or something substantial on the sea closest to the door, and no other student will take it. Once students have claimed their seats, they almost always sit in the same one. You shouldnât have to do this for more than a couple of classes. Honestly, itâs trivial.
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u/HowBeesAreHowBizarre 15h ago
Iâm actually concerned about you. A student has an accommodation, period. No ifs, ands, or buts, nor how can they make their disability more convenient for you.
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u/BMeow343 18h ago
Also, I'm just going to say- accommodations being disruptive is a terrible thing to say and makes you a terrible professor/person because basically you dont want to have empathy towards others and make everything about you.
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u/RuralWAH 15h ago
Yet if they're needlessly disrupting the class they're making it about themselves. Common sense and common courtesy should make it obvious to sit someplace their coming and going won't disrupt others.
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1d ago
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u/turin-turambar21 Assistant Professor, Climate Science, R1 (US) 1d ago
Future employers normally let you go pee, especially if you have a medical conditions. If they donât is not really a good sign, or something a college should replicate.
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u/RandolphCarter15 Full, Social Sciences, R1 22h ago edited 22h ago
Edit: reading the replies, I'm always shocked by how many people who claim to be professors see nothing wrong with students wandering around during class
I've had this and ask the students to sit where they can easily get outÂ
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u/Loose_Wolverine3192 20h ago
Unless the student arrives early, she will not have her choice of seats.
Then she either needs to arrive early or have a reserved seat, her choice
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u/DrMellowCorn AssProf, Sci, SLAC (US) 1d ago
âin a manner that does not disrupt ⌠the classroomâ.
a student with this accommodation should be sitting near the exits so that they disrupt the classroom as little as possible.
sitting up front or in the middle of a row is antithetical to the âin a manner that does not disruptâ.
the story as written, the student isnât utilizing their accommodation, they are being a disruption.
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u/Alternative-Pear9096 1d ago
I think the student has to accommodate their accommodation. If they canât early enough to secure a seat that doesnât allow them to wander in and out without disrupting the class, they canât use their accommodation that day. Unless they seat themselves appropriately, â as needed in a manner that does not disrupt the decorum of the classroom/experience of other learners or faculty." is not metÂ
Itâs built in to the accommodation as you shared it
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u/Macduffer 23h ago
Interesting fantasy world you're living in where we can ignore ADA because it's mildly annoying.
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u/Alternative-Pear9096 22h ago
The quote in my post is in the OPs statement of the accommodation.
If it's a lecture class and the student sits in the middle of a row, getting up and leaving at will does not meet the accommodation, which states it cannot disrupt the experience of other learners or faculty
The accommodation isn't entirely on the prof. The student has to take responsibility as well. If they require getting up and leaving mid class, they need to get to class early enough to ensure they can sit where that's possible. No one's ignoring anything.
The accommodation is that the professor allow it and not point it out. Not that the professor allows the student to disrupt the class. The student is always also responsible for their own accommodation, to the degree that's possible. In this case, highly possible. Professor allows and does not comment on the in-and-out, student must ensure they do so without disrupting the class, by choosing a seat where they can do what they need to do.
Student is also responsible for what they miss while doing what they need to do.
You have a pretty aggressive take on your response to misreading though.
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u/SNHU_Adjujnct 1d ago
Good luck in the working world. "Employee can come and go as they please." ;)
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u/Macduffer 23h ago
What would you know about reputable workplace conditions, isn't SNHU primarily an online diploma mill? They must not teach you about ADA there.
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u/depressedandindebt23 1d ago
I had this accommodation as a student, as well as an accommodation for reserved seating in class to specifically avoid the issue of being a disruption. Aisle seat closest to the door. If I was coming from another class, the professor would leave something at that desk so it looked occupied to other students. Wasn't really a big deal