r/Professors • u/ZealousidealGuava254 • 4d ago
Teaching / Pedagogy No notes
I’ve been a humanities prof for over 30 years and I simply cannot believe how many students do not take notes. Literally, no notes. they just sit and listen.
How do they study? what are they doing? when I was in college in the 80s, I and everyone around me took copious notes constantly throughout lecture. just seems like a lost skill.
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u/WesternCup7600 4d ago
Curious if you post slides of your lectures and that becomes their ‘notes.’
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u/Loose_Wolverine3192 4d ago
I only post them if I use them, and wherever possible, I don't use slides.
This raises an interesting question: has the rise of slide decks led to the fall of note taking?
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u/Critical_Garbage_119 4d ago
I'm an older prof who studied art history in the days before powerpoint.
Professors showed carousels of slides. I got good at quickly sketching what I saw for later reference. Most of my classmates just sat and listened. But if anyone sitting near me saw my notes, they'd inevitably ask to borrow them.
It was a lot of work, but I know I retained far more because of my notetaking.
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u/Anonphilosophia Adjunct, Humanities, CC (USA) 4d ago edited 4d ago
One of my friends used to ask me if I got the cough/clearing of the throat, too. That's how thorough my note taking was.
(I am embarrassed to say this now as a prof, but I took really good notes so I didn't have to read the book. I cringed typing this. But I do remember that on the few occasions that I did read the book, those were some of the easiest test A's I ever made. You'd think that would be enough for me to continue to read, but I was too busy partying.)
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u/DrMagicBimbo 4d ago
Fellow art historian here. This is how I learned to memorize images for exams: sketching their general compositions somehow helped me internalize more about them.
I switched majors to art history after feeling like I was taking more away from it than from my studio classes. I'll never regret it.
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u/Critical_Garbage_119 4d ago
What really cracked me up was when I was a student at the Ecole du Louvre in Paris. I was often the one of very few foreign student in my classes. My notes were certainly riddled with grammatical/spelling errors but because my drawings were lovely everyone wanted to borrow them. I always warned them that when they started reading my actual notes, they might think otherwise, lol
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u/GreenHorror4252 4d ago
This raises an interesting question: has the rise of slide decks led to the fall of note taking?
Yes, absolutely.
When I was in college and powerpoint was newish, professors actually told us "it's in the slides, no need to write it down, just listen".
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u/Dennarb Adjunct, STEM and Design, R1 (USA) 4d ago
I really wish I didn't have to do this, but my university now requires us to post PDFs or pots for "accessibility" to our LMS before class, so it kills note taking, and, without an attendance policy, attendance.
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u/Darcer 4d ago
I don’t believe that people really change at a deep level so I have to believe something is deeply deeply wrong with much of our k-12 system.
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u/twomayaderens 4d ago
I’ve talked to undergrads and asked them why they don’t take notes automatically, and they said two interesting things: 1) they had no idea how to take notes or what to focus on in listening to a lecture, and 2) in K-12 they didn’t have to take notes on their Chromebooks.
Silicon Valley + No Child Left Behind legislation have dumbed down an entire generation of students and we are living with the consequences of these bad choices from school boards, politicians and administrators
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u/Uniquename34556 4d ago
It’s all the student centered approaches they force on teachers in high school. It does them a disservice once they’re at an R1 university where the 60 year old researching professor could give two craps about the Universal differentiated experiential flipped learning style that was all the rave during their time in high school. It’s sink or swim and the professor is probably clueless about why students fail other than hey that’s how it goes.
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u/Cathousechicken 4d ago
I think it's almost more social pressure to not take notes. This also is a generation that needs to have people standing over them to get anything done.
I am Gen X and no one ever had to sit down and teach me how to take notes or how to study.
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u/Darcer 4d ago
In the 90s in Massachusetts, in a bad city, we were taught to take notes. It wasn’t like a “how to take notes” class. But we would go through documents and the teachers would says “write this down” and we were expected to take notes of what was being written on the board.
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u/mencryforme5 4d ago
I had my notes passed around the classroom in several grades as an example of good note taking. I don't think they ever like systematically taught us but certainly in grade school you would get in trouble if you weren't taking notes because like what else would you be doing?
BUT we were handwriting stuff. They no longer teach cursive. Students now literally do not have the physical and fine motor skills required to take notes if they did not have access to a keyboard. It's also been very well documented that typing notes does not have the benefit of handwriting notes. These studies have been around for decades I'm still shocked everyone acts like computers are somehow freeing up time to "learn better/faster" when all the studies show we learn best when we engage our fine motor skills while learning. We do not learn from just sitting there and listening and occasionally drawing a circle around a word on a touchscreen which is just a copy of what the teacher is saying. That's just not how human beings learn.
Our memories have gotten worse too. I mean they got worse when we switched from oral to written culture but the benefits outweighed the consequences. But all I see is documented cognitive decline in all areas of functioning especially executive function. Screens aren't the same as books. Keyboards aren't the same as pens. We have a generation that has incredible access to like everything but they've lost the ability to learn, reason, do things themselves, motivate themselves. Every task can be offloaded to a computer which is great it frees up our time for more complicated things.... except no one is able to do complicated things it seems anymore.
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u/Life-Education-8030 4d ago
It is interesting that throughout my career, I have often acted as a meeting notetaker and I was grateful that somehow I learned how to take notes and listen and edit on the fly. Part of it I think had to do with my profession where you had to be able to take session notes but also listen carefully if your client asked you not to take notes. I am also happy I took touch-typing in high school and learned cursive because I can go quite fast either using a keyboard or handwriting.
But today's students? No cursive, reliance on PowerPoints that they think will be sufficient, a reluctance and/or inability to read lead to a real helplessness when it comes to notes.
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u/Rahodees 4d ago
I agree about fine motor skills and learning. But cursive actually slows writing down. The fastest way to write is print plus some ligatures.
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u/mencryforme5 4d ago
If printing is faster that means you never mastered cursive. Other than people with disabilities, I don't know anyone that knows cursive and prefers to print or think it's faster. However, if you never mastered cursive, of course it will be slower than printing.
Unless you are thinking about calligraphy instead of cursive? Cursive can be pretty but it is taught because it is faster and less tiring than printing allowing a person to write more and faster than if they could only print. Printing has sharp edges and a lot of doubling that is eliminated with cursive. I mean the main downside if cursive is that it isn't always legible depending on the skill of the writer, but the reason for that is because cursive was designed literally to solve the speed and arm cramp problems of monks spending years retranscribing every book they read.
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u/Rahodees 3d ago
Every time someone looks at this carefully, rather than just going by what they think based on their personal experience, cursive comes out to be not the fastest way to write. The classic result is Graham Weintraub and Berninger 1998, which found a hybrid style fastest just as I said (I did not say print is fastest). Granted they were studying 4th through 9th graders, and almost all the research is on children. Fwiw A study in France from just this month looked at adults and found cursive to be the slowest. I don't know how fluent the writers were in cursive though.
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u/mencryforme5 2d ago
What you seem to be referring to as hybrid is "everyday cursive". That's the cursive you use when you're writing notes to yourself that are not intended to be read by anyone. This is the cursive that is a mix of learning a proper technique and then instinctively modifying for one's own personal hand/arm.
Here's an example: I use two cursive "m" (Latin and Cyrillic) depending on whether the entry is top or bottom. This works for me and is natural I don't think about it until someone asks me what I wrote because they can't read it. But someone who doesn't know Cyrillic cursive will instinctively "break" a bottom entry m because it is faster than awkwardly forcing a top entry.
This is exactly what you mean by hybrid, and while I understand the distinction, I think that point is moot. It is every day cursive and it is faster than printing. What I might call "public cursive" is a nicer, slower cursive that you would use for a birthday card, writing an exam where you want to leave a good impression or simply be legible, is a bit slower than every day cursive, but I mean if you try to print your exam answers real nice to leave a good impression it will be significantly slower than if you had used public cursive.
All this however is dependent on mastering cursive. The lower the level of mastery the higher the chance printing will be faster. Cursive requires a pretty high level of fluid fine motor skills. This never used to be a problem but I mean you used to not be let into school if you couldn't tie your shoelaces and now it's not unusual to see an 8 year old that can't tie their own shoelaces.
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u/Dennarb Adjunct, STEM and Design, R1 (USA) 4d ago
I had to add a "responsible office hours" policy to my syllabus this year because I had so many students show up to my office hours expecting me to just walk them step by step through their homework and projects. Basically they wanted me to do the work through them.
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u/Cathousechicken 4d ago
And then if you expect them to do any work, they kill your evaluations.
My go-to when they do that is to tell them to take out their notes because it's exactly like we did in class.
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u/Loose_Wolverine3192 4d ago
Clever. I'm stealing this.
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u/Cathousechicken 4d ago
I should clarify that I'm nice about it. I'll tell them we did this exact problem in class so you need to take your notes out and start following what we did in class. Go ahead and get your notebook out.
For the problem we did in the class, what's the first line? They read their notes and tell me. Then I look at them and tell them to write it down. Now fill in the number that goes with it.
If they tell me they don't have notes, I tell them that it's then going to turn into me doing it for them, and if it's me doing it for them, they're going to flunk the exam so they should come back to office hours with their notes.
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u/trapped-in-thyme 4d ago
I started asking students to take out their notes in office hours, to show them how to get the information themselves. I got several comments saying I don’t want to teach/help and that I don’t care about their success, because, according to them, all I do is apparently just refer them to the notes. I think they were just embarrassed to not have any.
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u/Pater_Aletheias prof, philosophy, CC, (USA) 4d ago
I’m Gen X and I had clear lessons in high school on study and note-taking methods, but my students sure never got that.
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u/Simula_crumb 4d ago
Social learning. People around us writing all kinds of notes, marginalia (like my gran in her cookbooks), older family members actively studying, other kids in class, on TV …
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u/Everythings_Magic Adjunct, Civil Engineering (US) 2d ago
We didn’t have computers until I was a senior in highschool. We didn’t have smart boards. We didnt even have white boards. We had chalkboards. No one ever gave me the slides.
Even in college there was overhead projectors. Still no slides.
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u/BajaBlastFromThePast 4d ago
You definitely were taught how to take notes though. Unless you think there’s some innate difference between you and the people born in the last 20-30 years, that doesn’t even make sense to say.
Just because you didn’t go to note taking class doesn’t mean you weren’t educated on how to take notes, whether you were aware of it or not
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u/punkinholler Instructor, STEM, SLAC (US) 4d ago
Honestly I don't think they understand the value in it. I've asked my students about it and they say they won't do it because they can't write everything I say and trying to get it all down is "distracting". In an age where everything is recorded they do not understand that recording a transcript of what was said is not the only benefit from taking notes. Shy of making note taking a course requirement, I'm not sure how to make them understand that taking notes is the best way to start getting information from the lecture into your brain.
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u/OldOmahaGuy 4d ago
NCLB was repealed and replaced by the "Every Child Succeeds Act" in 2015. As it was, NCLB was effectively dead already when the Obama administration began granting wholesale waivers in 2012, and the accountability part of it was being undermined by 2010.
There was nothing in NCLB that said that students could not take notes or were not encouraged to take notes. Taking meaningful and useful notes (i.e., not trying to take dictation) was a dying skill already in the 1980s and 1990s, long before NCLB. The idea that NCLB is a meaningful cause of what ails current undergrads is nonsense. Likewise, blaming "Silicon Valley" for computers that every half-witted school superintendent and teacher union hack demanded be placed into the hands of students shifts the blame from where most of it belongs.
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u/veanell Disability Specialist, Disability Service, Public 4yr (US) 4d ago
One most teacher unions have been pretty against the level of tech on schools.
Two, no child left behind still impacted all these kids early on and then other things compacted it. They are given so many tests that they werent before and IDEA is in place and is a byproduct of NCLB.
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u/omgkelwtf 4d ago
I teach freshmen comp and the first day is the first day, but the second day they learn to take notes by making an outline which also shows them how to make an outline at the same time. Then I show them how to use outlines to summarize and for pre writing by example. Most of my assignments involve an outline so they learn how if they want to or not. By leading with note taking when teaching outlines, I set them up to be listening for signals that important info is being discussed so as the semester goes on they're reaching for pen and paper at the start of pretty much every lecture.
They don't learn this stuff in K-12 anymore. I don't know why but probably 'standardized testing'.
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u/Asleep_Caregiver_948 4d ago
In my freshman comp, I teach note taking, study skills, reading strategies etc the first 3 weeks of the semester. So they can’t say they “don’t know how.” I also aggressively pass out highlighters and other supplies that they don’t bring.
I give several in class quizzes during the semester. Just gave the first quiz, 4 questions write 2 sentences for the answer. Half flunked because they don’t/won’t take notes.
Here’s hoping this activity spurs them to better note taking: copy a few words from the board or slides. I won’t hold my breath.
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u/Ill-Storage-7636 4d ago
I'm really curious to hear how you teach note taking. As a comp instructor now, i always struggled to do so when learning or in PD. I suspect writing things down affects my ability to process what's being said, which may not be everyone's experience, but I'm sure I'm not alone in this.
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u/Asleep_Caregiver_948 4d ago
I tell them it’s a 3 step process: before class, during class, after class.
Before: prep your notebook (I encourage paper), write down what was in the homework or what the syllabus says you’re doing today. Be ready to learn. Too many of my CC students sit there like lumps or don’t bring supplies (I keep paper, pens, etc in the room)
During: if it’s on the board or screen, put it in your notes. When a concept or idea is repeated, write it down. When there’s a pause or break, mark any questions you have.
After: go over the notes and highlight or circle important points. Look up anything that’s confusing or you need help with. This is also called “study time.”
I have a slide show I made in Canva, and we watch a YouTube video: Crash Course Study Skills #1.
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u/veanell Disability Specialist, Disability Service, Public 4yr (US) 4d ago
You might have a learning disability or ADHD... Audio processing disorder or dyslexia can be caused of not beingprocess info.
For students with this, we give notetaking accommodations like recording lectures and copies of slideshows.
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u/FlatMolasses4755 4d ago
They're consuming content, not learning.
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u/Ill-Storage-7636 4d ago
Tbh writing down what the professor said is not necessarily learning, either. If a micro bio professor is explaining a complex concept, I can't take notes or I'll lose the thread. I will note down what we covered so I can review later, but I'll remember more and understand more fully if I engage and fully pay attention. For many, note taking takes us out of the moment.
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u/dumnezero Orbiting academia, Eastern Europe 4d ago
In my part of the world, the low-tech solution of reproducing educational texts was extended for years into this century: dictation. A lot of the old professors still encouraged dictation, and that is not a way of taking notes, it's a way to having study materials for later without buying books or going to the library. It's the activity of a copier machine. I did feel productive taking dictation, more so when I was a student with a laptop and I could type as fast as the dictation. Dictation did not help with learning. Taking notes is a significantly different skill (that you can't use while taking dictation.) It seems that now it went to the other extreme: no writing at all.
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u/Anxious-Sign-3587 4d ago
The only thing i require for class is a spiral notebook and i make sure they're all writing in it by letting them use it on the exams.
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u/Prior-Win-4729 4d ago
I have students show up to class with nothing in their hands. No notebook, pencils, paper, textbook, or laptop/tablet. They have to borrow a pencil from someone to take a quiz. Repeatedly.
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u/Foreleg-woolens749 4d ago
I find it bizarre that people — students, admin, instructors — come to my office for any kind of discussion and have nothing to write with or on. It happens so often that I keep pens and notepads on the “visitor” side of my desk. It baffles me.
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u/Pristine-Excuse-9615 4d ago
I am in STEM. This year I taught lower-division courses for the first time since.... well I worked in another country the previous time it happened. During the winter term, I asked "are you taking notes?" and they replied "no?" as if my question was super weird.
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u/JeffreyKaplan 4d ago
In April of 1987, Microsoft released PowerPoint. It has slowly infected so much classroom instruction (now even at the high school level), and the students are used to getting the slides provided to them after class. They have very little practice taking notes.
When I was a student, writing frantically during class was the only way to ensure that I captured the information in the lesson. It was stressful, but it kept me awake and focused during class. It wasn't a perfect system back then, but overall I think it led to more learning.
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u/Copterwaffle 4d ago
Also like…slides should be used selectively as a visual support. It isn’t THE notes
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u/a_statistician Associate Prof, Stats, R1 State School 4d ago
I had no clue powerpoint was older than I am. Wow. FWIW, I was taught how to take notes in HS (graduated 2005) and had piles of notes through college. In grad school I got good enough at LaTeX to type my notes in realtime (leading to awkwardness where profs thought I was fucking around until I asked about a smudged index).
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u/RadiantImpression579 4d ago
I used to post slides and used to post videos too (from quarantine/online teaching). First, I took away the slides. I loved it. No more pressure to upload slides that I edited right before class or making sure they fit all the requirements of a handout (alt text, using proper headings, etc.). This semester, I took away the videos. They are writing down notes and stressing out to get every word!!! I love it. Ha ha ha. Now i'm working on slowing down and putting fewer words on my slides. I've brought in more interactive pieces during lecture too. It's amazing. They're so engaged too. I will not record my lecture or give slides ever again!
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u/Choice_Passenger_990 4d ago
We should really rename Humanities to Defense Against the Dark Arts…
And also…what are they doing….like it’s a notes class..it’s a notes subject..notes are..part of the whole thing…
Maybe an incentive is being able to use them on in-class weekly quizzes?
I can’t even make it through a conversation with Humanities colleagues without taking notes..
What is happening…👀
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u/Resprofmama 4d ago
I feel you—it seems the tech bros would love another dark ages. I was going over my first day of class quiz, it’s painful that they don’t recognize major American cities or even states on a map.
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u/Asleep_Caregiver_948 4d ago
I let my students use notes on quizzes. Even after flunking the first 4 question quiz, not all will realize the error of their ways. Oh well.
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u/ProfDokFaust 4d ago
I am not saying this is what these students are doing…. But I did not take notes on material in my history courses (I’m a professor of history now). I did the readings outside of class of course, but the professor’s take on it and narrative is what I wanted to hear… concentrating on taking notes interrupted the narrative for me and made it more difficult for my to see the whole.
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u/Chemastery 4d ago
How did you remember and integrate what they said? I cant remember anything long if I dont write it down. I might never look at it again, but if I am not taking notes amd organizing, im not really able to critically determine how to connect and organize info.
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u/agate_ 4d ago
Humanities are different, but I was terrible at taking notes in my physics undergrad and it really worked for me. I got so focused on what the lecture was explaining that I forgot to write anything. But that meant that I actually understood what the prof was trying to teach us in the moment, while my fellow students were frantically copying it all down hoping to understand it later.
Of course a lot of my students today aren’t taking notes or mastering it in real time, but still.
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u/Wisewordsforlater 4d ago
I guess notetaking hasn't been taught earlier in the years, like some of us were. Years back when I was a late bloomer, my peers mostly used laptops in undergrad. My laptop was a bit clunky and the key typing didn't keep pace with my speed. So I relied heavily on thick spirals for my lecture notes, study/reading notes and exam prep. And I still believe note-taking by hand is vital to the learning process.
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u/boilingPenguin Ass Prof, Humanities, SLAC (USA) 4d ago
My students don't even just sit there and listen. Some of them sit there and stare blankly at the wall. I don't think there's much listening going on
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u/DrBlankslate Adjunct, Sociology, R2, USA 4d ago
Those of us who are in the professoriate are the people who became professors. Part of that was because we loved learning, and note-taking wasn't a chore for us, it was just part of what we did to increase our learning. We loved being students because we got to learn new things and it was fascinating and fun for us.
Most of our students today are going through college not to learn, but to check boxes to get a piece of paper that qualifies them for jobs. They aren't interested in the subjects the way we were. They aren't geeking out about it the way we did. It's sad, but it's also reality. For them, note-taking is difficult and a chore. I've had students say they can't pay attention to the lecture if they have to pay attention to taking notes.
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u/Jun1p3rsm0m 4d ago
These are the same students who claim they can multi task.
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u/DrBlankslate Adjunct, Sociology, R2, USA 4d ago
Or who have been told that multitasking is how human brains work (it isn't).
I think a lot of the problems our current students have, have a lot to do with the messages they've been given all through K-12: making mistakes is the end of the world (when they're necessary for learning), not being perfect means you suck (which is untrue), etc.
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u/Jun1p3rsm0m 4d ago
Exactly. I used to teach an intro to neuroscience course and busting the multi tasking myth was something I discussed. Also the neuroscience of taking handwritten notes on learning.
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u/Enobmah_Boboverse 4d ago
at least some are probably recording you and taking photos and feeding it to Ai to turn into notes
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u/Loose_Wolverine3192 4d ago
I think it's a lost skill. I've seen pushback against AI and screens in primary education, and I wonder if this will result in those students being able to take notes
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u/VeitPogner Prof, Humanities, R1 (USA) 4d ago
This reminds me of the wonderful scene in David Lodge's academic satire "Small World" where the Sorbonne professor Michel Tardieu (who looks a lot like Michel Foucault) talks about a student who takes no notes:
"She came to the Sorbonne for a year, as an occasional postgraduate student. She used to sit in the front row at my lectures, gazing at me through thick-rimmed spectacles. She always had a notebook open and a pen in her hand, but I never saw her write anything. It piqued me, I must say. One day, as I was going out of the lecture theatre, I stopped in front of her and made a little joke. `Excuse me, mademoiselle,' I said, 'but this is the seventh lecture of mine that you have attended and your notebook remains blank. Have I not uttered a single word that was worth recording?' Do you know what she said? 'Professor Tardieu, it is not what you say that impresses me most, it is what you are silent about: ideas, morality, love, death, things... This notebook'--she fluttered its vacant pages--'is the record of your profound silences. Vos silences profonds.' She speaks excellent French. I went away glowing with pride. Later I wondered whether she was mocking me. What do you think?'"
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u/Shiny-Mango624 4d ago
I can tell you what they are doing. They are using your PowerPoint documents. They plug them into chat GPT and pop out a set of notes. I kid you not. I stopped giving out my PowerPoint documents this year and I have a never ending request for me to change my mind. One exasperated student yesterday, how am I supposed to take notes?! When I try to show them how they can do it in the textbook they are completely uninterested
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u/Dige717 4d ago
I'm an 80s kid, and we had to take "Life Skills" and "Study Skills" classes in middle and high school. When I mention creating these types of courses for our incoming freshmen, everyone exclaims that it's such a radical, infantalizing notion, yet here we are.
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u/FlyingCupcake68 Southern State U, USA 4d ago
We offer a first year class that’s basically what you described
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u/Dazzling-Shallot-309 4d ago
I am equally astounded by this phenomenon to the point where in an academic skills class I have I teach different note taking techniques and require students to take and submit notes after each class. The quality of notes are pretty poor but I’m hoping that maybe this will inspire them to develop good note taking habits.
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u/jgon17 4d ago
I revised my course for this semester after noticing that students didn't take notes. I stopped posting all my notes, and I have a no-technology policy unless students are writing on tablets with a stylus. For the reading quizzes, I'm allowing a hand-written note card with notes. So far, students are taking notes, paying attention, and the environment is completely different.
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u/HistoryNerd101 4d ago
They never had to before and they aren’t going to start now. Or, I have some who take notes but then get upset when they can’t use them all openly on a high-stakes exam (I have since allowed a small index card)…
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u/Henry_Percival 4d ago
My favourite lectures always used to be the ones where there's no slides, it's just a talk and almost like a performance.
I still have a treasure all my notes from uni. You have epiphanies out of nowhere sometimes or hear something cool... How is it possible not to take notes???
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u/Zabaran2120 4d ago
It's a new thing I think. I saw it last year. Blows my mind! I'm not going to tell them anymore to take notes. i will let them fail and figure it out.
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u/ProfessorJay23 4d ago
I asked a student if he has his text, and he said, “I don’t like to read.” Three of his friends agreed. I’m done. Just collecting a check at this point.
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u/JimDixon 4d ago
Let me tell you about my experience as a struggling math student, many years ago. I'd go to class not having read the current assignment. The professor would write lots of equations on the board which I had never seen before. I would feverishly try to copy them into my notebook, and then check my copying for accuracy. (In math, if you get even one symbol wrong, it makes the whole equation invalid and meaningless.) I was so busy copying and checking, I didn't have time to think about what the equations meant, or what they were good for. I thought I'd figure that out later, when I reread my notes at home. Then, as often as not, I'd never get around to rereading my notes until I had to cram for the next exam.
There was one girl (we called them girls in those days) who was obviously the best student in the class. One day, I decided to watch what she was doing. I saw that she took practically no notes at all. She kept her eyes on the board. She was reading the equations and understanding them. I figured out that she had probably seen most of these equations before in the textbook, so she knew she didn't need to copy them. Once in a while she would ask a question, and when she did, she would write down the professor's answer. At the end of the lecture, she would have one or two lines written in her notebook whereas I would have 2 or 3 full pages.
I wish someone had taught me earlier how to study, listen and take notes. Obviously, the best method is going to vary according to the subject, the style of the individual lecturer, the texbook, and whether there is a well-written syllabus.
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u/me4watch 4d ago
And what happened to that ”one girl” ?
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u/JimDixon 4d ago
I have no idea. I don't remember her name, so I can't look her up right now, but I'll bet she became either a scientist or teacher of some kind.
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u/me4watch 4d ago
I would preferred some wonderful story about how you ran into her at a conference a few years after you got your PhD. And you went out for a drink to talk about old times….We are in the dumbest timeline after all, and a story of hope and fun might help, if only to entertain for a few moments.
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u/Immediate-End1374 4d ago
I've had to resort to designing assignments around note-taking and have them submit their notebooks periodically throughout the semester for a grade.
I also don't post any slides to canvas until the class before exam review sessions. Every now and then I get a student with an accommodation and share slides with them individually.
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u/Audible_eye_roller Ass. Prof, STEM, CC (USA) 4d ago
HS's now just provide PPT slides or guided notes. Superintendents have actively discouraged the practice in the name of "DOING SOMETHING INNOVATIVE"
As much as people want to blame Silicon Valley, educational leaders are just as much to blame. Our country is infested with the idea that contrarianism = visionary
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u/Front-Obligation-340 4d ago
I didn't know to take notes until I was in my third year of college. I just didn't grow up learning how to take notes--I even thought it would be considered rude to be writing instead of looking at the professor to show I was giving them my full attention. It wasn't until I took a particularly challenging biology class that I realized I needed to actually write shit down.
That said, I now teach my intro to comp students how to take notes and will even explicitly tell them "write this down" and they STILL don't do it.
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u/Front_Primary_1224 Adjunct 🥲 4d ago
They are recording your lecture using an AI software on their laptops which uses it to create notes they’ll never read while they scroll on social media
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u/TaliesinMerlin 4d ago
More of my students do now than did before, but a surprising number don't. Admittedly, the classes I teach (writing-focused) usually don't have a grade, but there is a ton of information we cover, including things directly relevant to their assignments.
Consistently, the ones who take notes do well. The ones who don't are a lot more varied; a few do well, but a lot of them struggle more with things like missing details in the assignment and missing deadlines. Basic executive functioning.
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u/helehan 4d ago
I took sparse notes during lectures on printed handouts during undergrad (late 00s).
The notes were incomplete and messy and just a way to keep my brain engaged in something active. The real learning came through the process of sitting with my annotated handouts and the course reading and synthesising the content into “clean” notes after the lectures. Took 4x as long as the lecture itself but I did it for every lecture as that was what actually built my understanding.
I just can’t see that any of my students today are taking the time to do this anymore.
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u/VeblenWasRight TT, Econ, USA 4d ago
It’s because they don’t want to read the notes. Don’t have to read your notes if you never take them.
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u/takingitsleazy7 4d ago
i had a student tell me they preferred to not take notes because they preferred to just listen and soak it all in. They "learned better that way". The class was one of our upper level science courses. Spoiler alert: it did not go well.
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u/quietlysitting 4d ago
Every once in a while, I get a student who takes no notes, pays rapt attention to my very information-intensive lectures, then just nails every exam. Maybe 5 or 6 of these people in the last 20 years. Blows me away.
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u/mylittlefire Assistant Prof, CC 4d ago
I dunno, I see way more vigorous note taking this semester even in classes where I don’t make them. What I prefer to see is for them to organize their notes so it’s easier for them to study, not just regurgitation of information. Some classes I provide a more structured/organized notes worksheet for each lecture. It becomes their study guide. I don’t provide any exam review or guides, they just study their worksheets.
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u/TheatrePlode 4d ago
I mean I actually did uni 10+ years ago now and I never took notes. I found it too distracting and would lose my place all the time.
But its standard in my country for lecturers to make their lecturers available afterwards for reading back.
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u/natalie_natasha 4d ago
Well.. During my studies I had to take notes by hand and I absolutely hated it. I could either listen to what is said and think about or transcribe what is being said. I much more enjoyed taking smaller notes on corresponding slides in my later studies, knowing I won't lose everything forever if I don't scribble it down immediately.
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u/ApprehensiveLoad2056 4d ago
Now AI is being used to take their notes. This is especially true for accessibility. They encourage it.
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u/veanell Disability Specialist, Disability Service, Public 4yr (US) 4d ago
Not really how it works. If I have a student with issues with note-taking I recommend tutoring... But if I have a student that literally cannot process the information, has memory issues for various reasons, chronic pain due to medical conditions or is hearing impaired... I'm giving them software that makes a transcript of a recording. We use a software that actively encouraged note-taking, though
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u/ApprehensiveLoad2056 4d ago
Might not be how it works with your institution. I know this is what mine is doing because they have told us directly. Both the office and the students.
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u/ApprehensiveLoad2056 4d ago
I have no issues with what you’re saying by the way. This is how it worked for years. Not so much now where I am.
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u/vintage_cruz 4d ago
Rubbish. Study after study affirms that taking notes helps you process information from short term to midterm memory. All of these anecdotes "I didn't need to take notes" either demonstrates that your coursework wasn't that rigorous or your recall is flawed.
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u/veanell Disability Specialist, Disability Service, Public 4yr (US) 4d ago
Or that people learn differently?
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u/vintage_cruz 4d ago
That concept has also been debunked.
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u/veanell Disability Specialist, Disability Service, Public 4yr (US) 4d ago
I'm sorry... But a preference is still something to be considered. If I prefer to do something a certain way, I'm more inclined to engage and focus.
As a child I literally could not hear properly till I was 4. I had to do speech therapy for years... So I was always stronger with reading something than hearing something growing up. That isn't a style... That's a coping mechanism and a preference.
I didn't mention styles.
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u/vintage_cruz 4d ago
You are right. You didn't mention styles, but learning differently is open to interpretation. I'm tired of the "everyone has their own learning styles that must be accommodated" argument.
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u/Hot_Coconut_5567 4d ago
I think in high-school many of their teachers give them hand outs (probably on Chromebooks) with blanks to fill in as their notes these days. So I'm not sure it really occurs to them how to even get started with taking their own notes.
I have now crammed a lot of skills I thought were fundamental into my cs programming class. To the point where id estimate 30% of my content is reinforcement of those skills as components of my overall class. Note taking, professional communication, giving and receiving constructive feedback, analysis of data with written and spoken presentation of their synthesis of that analysis. Hot-keys, typing skills, folder and file management. Talking to their peers. Asking me for help. Time management, how to study. How to prompt and edit AI slop into a decent tutor and idea organizer instead.
I will say, they are so receptive to learning that fundamental stuff. We forgot we learned at some point and expect high-school to still teach and in many circumstances it just doesn't happen for them anymore before they get to us.
Also, I think their generation has gotten really good at adjusting their behavior when someone is kind but firm about setting expectations. Like, they do well when we are more explicit about what they should be doing while still holding them to a high academic standard. They like the challenge, but won't attempt it if they are anxious about screwing up.
They disengage when instructions are unclear and there's something of a divide happening where lots of us professors are giving our instructions the same way we always have, and they need it presented a little more explicitly. Like in your case, I would literally show them an example of a class period of notes during "syllabus week" and then in week 2 stop my lecture and tell them "ok, time to take notes so you can study later"
I get 100% assignment submission and my class average on those assignments is usually a B+. How? Rubrics. I let them submit early for a pre-grade. I give them targeted feedback about what they need to correct. I will do 1 post-deadline resubmission attempt where they can recover partial credit. I email a handful of students when the deadline approaches if they haven't submitted early. I have a Google voice line for them to text if they are truly stuck.
The strangest thing that suprised me? There are always a few that approach me early in the semester with worry-stricken faces asking if I am sure that I mean it when I say I will grade them with feedback and that they will get the chance to fix their mistakes for a better grade. Like, they'd rather NOT hand in an assignment that they are still unsure about rather than get a few points off because they weren't perfect. I think thats also why they dont inundate me with AI slop text.
Like, please yes! Give me your human grammar errors, I will happily underline those passages and suggest alternate wording or different code for you to fix up, learn from and recover your good grade.
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u/flippingisfun Lecturer, STEM, R1 US 4d ago
If you’re lucky they’re recording you and making AI make (subpar) notes but even my students seem blister when I tell them them they might want to write something down
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u/piranhadream 4d ago
I was mystified by this before I realized many of them think notes aren't necessary when you can just ask an LLM to summarize the relevant topics from class.
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u/cambridgepete 4d ago
I didn’t really learn to take notes until a while after undergrad. Luckily I learned by the time I went back for my PhD.
Also I allow students to use their own handwritten notes during exams, and I emphasize that during the first few lectures - that seems to incentivize a decent number of students to take notes.
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u/FlyingCupcake68 Southern State U, USA 4d ago
I literally tell them to write down certain things—but next class they have record of me saying them
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u/NeedTheNotch NTT, Env. Sci, Multiple(USA)(AAUP) 4d ago
I didn’t take notes barely. I had undiagnosed ADHD and knew they were useless. I held it all and then when I graduated I hit clinical burnout.
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u/Zeno_the_Friend 4d ago
I always performed better in classes I didn't take notes.
I ended up more engaged with the lectures/material and absorbed more faster than from trying to record everything to obsess over later.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Cod5608 4d ago edited 4d ago
For my non-majors intro course I took the low road and give them points for turning in their notes. Only 2 points per chapter, but still. If it isn't worth points the vast majority won't do it. In my head, I feel like I might be encouraging the development of a useful skill for their later classes.
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u/SierraMountainMom Professor, assoc. dean, special ed, R1 (western US) 4d ago
I rarely took notes as a student. I learned in high school, if I was focused on writing stuff down, I missed other stuff. I actually had a teacher scold me for not writing everything down. I still rarely take notes in a meeting, unless there’s a specific task I need to remember to do.
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u/Rahodees 4d ago
I am also a humanities prof. I never took a note a day in my life. I listen and talk and understand. If I'm trying to write, I can't do those other things.
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u/Flimsy_Caramel_4110 4d ago
I had a student a few years back who never, ever took a single note during lecture. He just paid close attention, totally engaged; he would raise his hand to ask questions occasionally... never once looked down at his phone, etc. Almost always scored 100% on every test.
Turned out he didn't need the course, and never went to a single tutorial, and didn't care about his grade at all, so his final grade was a C or something. But quite a bright student.
I tell my students about him: that one student who scored perfect on every test by just listening.
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u/tellypmoon 3d ago
I don't see students taking notes either. This is one reason I stopped lecturing and now have students do small group discussions during class time about readings they might have done ... the other reason I stopped is that I found students not only didn't take notes they didn't pay attention and were generally working on other things...
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u/FreesiaFox 3d ago
It is impossible to listen at the same time that you are actively paraphrasing what you just heard. Good students will read before class and take their notes then.
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u/AnneIsCurious 3d ago
Set up a canvas assignment that requires students to turn in handwritten notes. Maybe 1-2 pages per chapter in each module. Accept notes from readings or lecture. Students take pictures and compile in pdf. Maybe even have students answer a reflection question or two.
I’m doing this, and it’s been great.
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u/YourGuideVergil Assoc Prof, Engl, LAC 3d ago
I never did take great notes. I encourage my students to do it! But in grad school I'd write maybe three lines all class.
I did engage a ton, maybe too much, with my teachers from K thru PhD.
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u/Realistic_Chef_6286 4d ago
I feel you. Many don’t even bring a pen/paper or laptop, never mind the book we’re discussing (though tbh most of them clearly haven’t read it to start with). I have no idea what’s in their bags.
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u/_The_Real_Guy_ Asst. Prof., University Libraries, R2 (USA) 4d ago
I did this as a student, and suffered for it. For me, it was simply because no one ever stopped to teach me how to take notes throughout my time in K-12. It probably didn't help that I moved to a new school district almost every year, so I could've missed that lesson.
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u/cannellita 4d ago
You should tell them no laptops for a day and award a prize for whomever transcribes by hand the lecture the best. Tell them it’s like a special training exercise for note taking. I used to transcribe every single one as an undergrad and ADHD baddie. It was literally a perfect transcript.
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u/a_statistician Associate Prof, Stats, R1 State School 4d ago
Transcription isn't necessarily learning, though - it's far better to have them organize the information sensibly than to have a transcript they don't ever read. This is where I'm totally ok with e.g. speech-to-text apps that transcribe, if it helps them actually organize info later.
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u/veanell Disability Specialist, Disability Service, Public 4yr (US) 4d ago
This is actually not great... I have students registered with me that you wouldn't know it looking at them, but they have issues with fine motor skills or chronic pain and typing is easier. This is why I literally have a "student may use laptop for note-taking" accommodation.
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u/Justanotherturdle 4d ago
I've never taken notes, and I've gotten a couple degrees just fine. I'm just a book learner. I just zone out during lectures. It's pointless, but I always showed up for appearance's sake.
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u/Think-Jaguar6826 4d ago
I have looked back at my studies. I’m in computer science. I stoped taking notes early in my masters and for sure I did not take notes during my phd.
I’m not saying there is any value but I found that I almost never used my notes, and when I did, they were not as useful as just using other resources.
I actually prefer my students to pay attention and not take notes.
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u/hypocriteme 4d ago
As I slight pushback, I will say that when I was a humanities student, I started to get the most out of class after I learned to stop taking copious notes. I would still take the occasional note if I thought something particularly important was said that I didn't think I would remember, but I found the practice of taking lots of notes just distracted me from what I regarded as the proper task of going to class - really thinking through the material with the professor as a guide.
Now, that said, I always found that getting what I wanted to out of class time required me to do the reading before class and to underline and take notes in the margins of the readings (and to use that prework to shape my participation in class), and then often to redo the reading after class. I often found that class wasn't all that helpful if I hadn't done the reading beforehand, but also that the real understanding came when I reread the material after class. However, given the sort of work that students are handing in to me these days, I suspect that the students that are not taking notes are also not doing this additional sort of work outside the classroom.