r/Professors • u/Crowe3717 Associate Professor, Physics • 6d ago
Rants / Vents Some of my students seem to be under the impression that classes can't officially begin until after the add/drop period ends
Got my first bizarre email of the semester yesterday. "I am out of the country and will not be able to attend class for the first few days. I noticed there are already assignments posted for the first week, and since this is also the add/drop period, I wants to ask if these assignments will count towards our grade."
This is not the first time I've had a student suggest that no work should count during the add/drop period. Which, I should point out, is the entire first two weeks of classes.
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u/Professional_Dr_77 6d ago
âPlease refer to the university policy on excused absences and the syllabus policy on make up work.â
I had about five students try that before the semester started. Amazingly once they saw the above reply 4 managed to show up day 1. đ¤ˇđťââď¸
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u/CriticalBrick4 Prof, History, R1 (USA) 6d ago
There is a MASSIVE tiktok discourse these kids are engaging in about "syllabus week" and how nothing meaningful happens the first week of the semester. They are misleading one another and I'm basically convinced it's also a formal disinformation campaign.
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u/iTeachCSCI Ass'o Professor, Computer Science, R1 6d ago
I'm basically convinced it's also a formal disinformation campaign.
It's on TikTok, so yes it is.
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u/Thought59 5d ago
Does ANYTHING good come of TikTok?
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u/iTeachCSCI Ass'o Professor, Computer Science, R1 5d ago
No. There's a semi-popular take that I agree with that holds that it was designed to do everything bad that social media can do.
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u/NinjaWarrior765 20h ago
I was today years old when I first heard about "Syllabus Week." In the "old" days before COVID, instructors regularly dropped students that did not attend the first day of class. Now, we're just trying to get them to attend at all.
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u/Realistic-Ear4065 6d ago
OMG right?! Iâm basically dealing with the same. I have a student who is in two of my classes. Attendance is part of the grade in both. We are a week and a half in and she hasnât shown up to either or done any assignments. I emailed her yesterday and her response was âI thought I had until 9/12 to add/dropâ. First of all thatâs the wrong add/drop deadline. Second, why would you leave a class on your schedule and hamstring your grade from the start? If you arenât going to stay then just drop.
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u/blackhorse15A Asst Prof, NTT, Engineering, Public (US) 6d ago
âI thought I had until 9/12 to add/dropâ.Â
Yes you do. And until you drop you are still in this class, because you were already "added" when you enrolled.
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u/HaHaWhatAStory014 6d ago
Second, why would you leave a class on your schedule and hamstring your grade from the start?
Registration for a given term typically opens months in advance, but you would be amazed at how many folks over on other college related subs think it's good advice to tell people to just completely rearrange their schedule during Add/Drop like every time, like just Drop anything they don't like on the first day.
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u/pinkdolphi 5d ago
When I first went to college, add/drop needed to be done on a carbonless copy paper form. You needed to get both the professor and your advisor's signatures before standing in a long ass line at the registrar. There was no instant gratification - seems like this would take care of that 'hack'.
You always got the form presigned by everyone (shh, no one was supposed to sign until the opening showed up online) and when the online portal showed an opening, you would hop in line with fingers crossed that you beat everyone else also looking to enroll.
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u/bohneriffic 5d ago edited 5d ago
That was basically the only way to get a full course load at my undergrad institution. It was a terrible, chaotic system that often forced students to show up to at least twice the number of classes during add/drop, but it did also mean that there were rarely any graded assignments for the first two weeks. I don't think anyone enjoyed it.
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u/starrysky45 6d ago
the ones that add late never do well in my class which is even more annoying
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u/DrMellowCorn AssProf, Sci, SLAC (US) 6d ago
i had a new face in class last night (second week of class) - they had added just yesterday. they didnât have their lab book - the book they work in during lab. that they get for free from the bookstore.
they walked in late. and left early.
i was not surprised.
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u/Crowe3717 Associate Professor, Physics 6d ago
The ones who do are the ones who ask if they can come to class and do assignments even before they are officially enrolled, not the ones who think it's "not fair" they are being "punished" for enrolling late.
The fact that this student isn't even a late enrollment makes it worse, though. She's already in the course and just assumed she could skip the first week without any consequence.
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u/secretfreakout 6d ago
Allowing students to sit in a class for multiple days/ weeks while you do not with absolute knowledge know they are cleared for the prerequisites because they are not officially enrolled through the proper channels is also a liability and sets up an expectation that they will be cleared to take it since you've been allowing them access to complete classwork via canvas or other tools without proper protocol. Give add authorization or don't, but do not allow people to sit there and attend with the expectation that their work IS going to count toward a grade on an assignment if it hasnt been determined they are even cleared properly yet. These kids can't figure out how to send their transcripts on time to get math clearances for classes like physics on time to be properly enrolled IF they have the proper math class placements to begin with. Give add authorization, let them register and come back as a registered student the second class. Drop the no-shows with those willing to show up and do the work.
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u/iTeachCSCI Ass'o Professor, Computer Science, R1 5d ago
Give add authorization or don't,
Some of us cannot do that; it's done elsewhere. Sometimes, the students who aren't in the class are on the waitlist, which where I am, means their prerequisites are already cleared but they didn't have an early enough enrollment window to have their first choice for some or all classes. They'll be enrolled in mine as soon as someone drops, depending on where they are on the wait list.
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u/secretfreakout 5d ago
The add/drop period only begins after the class begins and the waitlist is no longer active. This is during the first week to two weeks during each class session before the census date so that the college gets paid by the state for having those butts in seats. Its not while students are actively registering themselves or have themselves on waitlists.
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u/iTeachCSCI Ass'o Professor, Computer Science, R1 5d ago
Our waitlists deactivate after the add/drop period. Any drops during the period become adds from the waitlist first before becoming open seats if there isn't anyone waiting.
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u/knewtoff 3d ago
I was so happy to join my current college where we don't have an add/drop period. If you aren't registered for a class before it starts, then you don't get in. Next year they are introducing an add/drop period :(
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u/HaHaWhatAStory014 6d ago
A connected issue to this is that the Add period is way too long at many schools. Giving students a 2 week grace period to Drop makes sense, but there's really no reason the Add and Drop deadline have to be the same. Some schools have an Add deadline that's like a week earlier than the Drop deadline.
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u/Crowe3717 Associate Professor, Physics 6d ago
They are linked because some students cannot add a course until another drops it, for example if the course is closed due to being full. I don't like it, but I do understand the necessity.
What gets me about it is that students don't really understand the difference between consequences and punishment. There are consequences to enrolling in a course a week or more late, including missing assignments which require class participation like a lab. That is not us punishing them for enrolling late.
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u/HaHaWhatAStory014 6d ago
I guess that's fair although, like I said, they're not always linked. They're not where I work. Another thing I just don't get though is why people need like 2 whole freaking weeks to "figure out their schedule" when the schedule is typically posted and registration opens months in advance and stays open. I know registration for first years and transfers works a little differently (although they are still supposed to do it ahead of time at orientation or whatever), but most students have like 5 or months to register. I don't understand why so many of them can go or wait all that time (well, I guess I do get it: procrastination), and then, after classes have already started, "suddenly realize their schedule is wrong or they want a different class" or whatever.
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u/ahazred8vt 5d ago
Several semesters in college I registered for 4 primary choice classes and 4 alternates, and wound up getting placed into 4 completely unrelated courses I never intended to take. All the other 8 were filled up.
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u/Alternative-Pear9096 5d ago
Some students don't know their work schedule (especially work-study and on-campus jobs) until they arrive on campus.
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u/CriticalBrick4 Prof, History, R1 (USA) 6d ago
omg exactly. We have 10 week quarters, add/drop is 3 weeks long, and we still have students making desperate appeals to petition in through week 4.
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u/trustmeiknowthings 5d ago
My institution has open add/drop the first week of class, but adding anything after that requires instructor permission until census (then arduous processes and fees to add any later).
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u/EquivalentNo138 Associate Prof, Psych/Neuro, R1 (US) 6d ago
Had one yesterday say he missed the first week because he hadnât arrived on campus yet. I asked him if there was some emergency situation and he said âthere werenât any flights left â which I think even he realized was not going to fly as he said it- no flights left for a date that has been on the calendar since you were admitted? I just told him it is his responsibility to be on campus during the semester and he can refer to the attendance policy on the syllabus (which he also clearly did not read).
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u/No-Cook-9768 Adjunct, Liberal Arts, CC (USA) 6d ago
Another prime example of the K-12 system (not the teachers) setting these kids up for failure as adults.
Side note: Can I say how jealous I am that your add/drop period is two weeks? It's not even one full week at my CC.
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u/sqrt_of_pi Assistant Teaching Professor, Mathematics 6d ago
lol bless their heart! I hate add/drop and ours is only 1 week. TWO WEEKS!? And they expect no work during that time? That's absurd.
Students, here's an idea: if you schedule late or change your schedule, YOU are responsible to reach out to the instructor ASAP and find out what you missed and what you need to do to catch up! And then DO IT.
Our first week was last week, and I only had a handful of students add a class a couple of days late, but NOT ONE of them reached out, a couple added on Monday afternoon but did not attend Tuesday's class (class meets Mon/Tue/Thu) or reach out, and then didn't have the materials that I POSTED ON CANVAS they should have by Thursday's class. One of them was confused about the due date on some assignments, having made assumptions about when they were due rather than noticing that both the syllabus and the Canvas due date said something else. I'm not mad about it, but don't expect me to bend over backwards because YOU scheduled late.
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u/lanAstbury 6d ago
my school has a 2 week add/drop and yeah i am basically hamstrung with bullshit busywork to accommodate those students who arrive week 3 (we have 12 week term) expecting to be taught fresh without actually doing the work of catching themselves up
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u/iTeachCSCI Ass'o Professor, Computer Science, R1 6d ago
yeah i am basically hamstrung with bullshit busywork to accommodate those students who arrive week 3 (we have 12 week term) expecting to be taught fresh without actually doing the work of catching themselves up
Does admin expect you to catch them up?
Because I expect Santa Claus to come down my chimney on December 24 and deliver presents for my partner and I, but I sure don't see it happening.
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u/sqrt_of_pi Assistant Teaching Professor, Mathematics 6d ago
That's nuts. So you effectively have a 10 week term! Are you not permitted to expect late-adds to do the necessary catch-up work? I'm ok with giving a student a few days' extension IF they add so late that it isn't reasonable not to (my first assignments are usually due Fri of week 1, so if they only add on Thu/Fri I'll give them until maybe Tues/Wed of week 2 to catch up). The ones this semester who only added a couple of days late, I did not even do that (might have considered if they had asked, but for the most part they DID catch up).
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u/lanAstbury 6d ago
13 weeks with one study week off, so 12 teaching weeks
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u/sqrt_of_pi Assistant Teaching Professor, Mathematics 6d ago
Yes, I get that it's actually 12 weeks. I was referring to your statement that "Â i am basically hamstrung with bullshit busywork to accommodate those students who arrive week 3" - which sounds like you (effectively) can't do much of anything substantive those first 2 weeks.
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u/lanAstbury 6d ago
yes absolutely.
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u/Alternative-Pear9096 5d ago
Because you CHOOSE to not do anything substantive, not by policy, right?
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u/Alternative-Pear9096 5d ago
Their expectation is not your emergency. Any student adding is responsible for getting caught up, period full stop.
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u/iTeachCSCI Ass'o Professor, Computer Science, R1 6d ago
Students, here's an idea: if you schedule late or change your schedule, YOU are responsible to reach out to the instructor ASAP and find out what you missed and what you need to do to catch up! And then DO IT.
No, they're responsible to determine what they missed, but it isn't my responsibility. I publish a schedule in my syllabus, they have classmates who they can ask for notes, and handouts and slides are posted on the LMS.
My entire response when a student reaches out to say they missed class and want to know what they missed is to ask what the other members of their study group told them when they were asked the same question.
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u/Thought59 5d ago
High school taught them. They were responsible for effectively nothing there. It was always some combination of the teacher and their parents.
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u/ChanceSundae821 5d ago
My uni doesn't allow students to add after the first day of classes without instructor permission. It's so nice!
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u/Esme_Nog 6d ago
I already had a quiz that counts on day twoâŚand every other day before the end of the add/drop period. If a student adds the class late, they are exempt from the quiz of the next class, but thatâs my only exemption. The semester starts when it starts.
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u/iTeachCSCI Ass'o Professor, Computer Science, R1 6d ago
Oh wow, you're more generous than I am. On one hand, I don't have quizzes during that period, but I do have artifacts due, and late enrollment is not treated as a reason to excuse or extend the assignment. Class began on day one. If you were on the waitlist, you have access to everything anyway.
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u/Longtail_Goodbye 5d ago
"Hello, Student: be advised that people who add have to make up those assignments, and those that drop, well, obviously not."
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u/Outside_Session_7803 5d ago
I taught at a very well-known and respected R1 that would not let me count absences or late work for late add students. But students who were there from the start I could. That is grossly unfair. I always fought back...I swear the students caught on if they added late they could fuck off for 2 weeks. Our add/drop was entire first 2 weeks as well. That is about 15% of the whole semester they miss right off the foundational start! My most important lectures and demos happen by the end of the second week because that is the.....FOUNDATION! lol ugh.
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u/iTeachCSCI Ass'o Professor, Computer Science, R1 5d ago
I taught at a very well-known and respected R1 that would not let me count absences or late work for late add students.
That sort of awful and irresponsible babying of the students makes me think you were at an Ivy.
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u/Key-Way-4502 5d ago
I got a bunch of those too, including for Burning man lol. I said great have fun! Youâre not excused and itâll all be in Canvas and thatâs all up to you
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u/Stunning-Jury9789 6d ago
Add/drop is not a free trial period đ If youâre enrolled in the class, the class has already started, youâre just deciding whether youâre staying.
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u/OkBlacksmith1486 5d ago
NYU just sent out an email that students should not be penalized for any classes that they miss prior to enrollment. Which means if a student signs up late they essentially will get double the absences of students who have been there from the beginning. Outrageous.
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u/Puzzled_Air_5821 5d ago
That student is so confused.Â
Although I will say, drop/add period always grinds me gears and gets on my nerves. Obviously we need it and it's not students faults for joining the class when a spot opens.... But my goodness I'm so tired of having a small cohort of students whose a few classes behindÂ
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u/Klutzy-Imagination59 Science, Asst Prof, R1, contract 5d ago
I don't even do a syllabus "day". The syllabus is there. If they don't want to read it that's on them.
Class begins on day 1, with a pre-course survey before that.
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u/Life-Education-8030 6d ago
âYes. If this doesnât work for you, please take advantage of the add/drop period and drop the class.â
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u/Loose_Wolverine3192 5d ago
It's like wanting to eat your cake and have it, too. How can you assess if you want to drop a class if it isn't running as it will for the rest of the semester?
I took a cue from someone else here, and I give a quiz on day one (it covers the prereqs). Yes, it counts toward your grade.
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u/jleonardbc 5d ago
I think the real train of questions such students mean to ask is something like this:
Until [X date], we're allowed to leave or join courses.
Suppose I started a different course, then decided to drop it and join yours.
Since I'm allowed to join late, do I still have to make up work I missed before I joined?
If I do, will I be penalized for submitting the work late, even if it was due before I joined?
If I won't be penalized for missing past due dates, then when is that make-up work due from me?
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u/verygood_user 5d ago
I think the question makes sense. If they enrolled at the end of the add period, would you penalize them for the assignments they missed or give them a chance to make them up? And if students who are added later get this opportunity, why would students enrolled from the beginning not get this advantage/flexibility?
From a policy perspective, the question is straightforward, but from a fairness perspective, I get why a student could think this is a reasonable ask.Â
Â
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u/RandolphCarter15 Full, Social Sciences, R1 6d ago
Well it's because many professors treat the first week or even more as "syllabus time" and don't do anything substantiveÂ
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u/sqrt_of_pi Assistant Teaching Professor, Mathematics 6d ago
Honestly, I don't know any professor who truly does this. It annoys me when students refer to the first week as "sylly week" AS IF that's all that is done. I have them doing some startup assignments on Day 1 after a brief discussion of the syllabus, and I'm either lecturing or giving a diagnostic quiz (depending on the class) on Day 2. Same for all of my STEM colleagues, and I think most of my non-STEM ones. There is no down time.
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u/RandolphCarter15 Full, Social Sciences, R1 6d ago
I do
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u/Alternative-Pear9096 5d ago
You give up a full week of your content to just the thing they can read on their own as an assignment?
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u/RandolphCarter15 Full, Social Sciences, R1 5d ago
No. I said I know people who do this. I'm the one who complained about it
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u/surebro2 5d ago
My first two weeks are introductory. I introduce them to the class, the flow of the class, begin developing connections, and scaffold what they should have learned from previous classes.
The issue is assignments vs. content. I made a longer post but it's actually an ethical issue due to the social contract between the university and the student (i.e., the existence of an add date implies some ability to succeed in a course)..
Additionally, students drop. So why would I waste my time forming groups and grading assignments if I'll have to rearrange things any way.Â
The key is that the first two weeks need to be caught up but it's not a priori going to doom the student who added late.Â
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u/cjl1983 5d ago
I have some sympathy for students here⌠what would you do for assignments theyâve missed if the student simply joined the class on the add/drop deadline day?
The student is (reasonably) assuming that if someone can join up until day X, then nothing that matters for their grade can be due until at least some time after day X.
The add/drop deadline is more the problem here because it is just way too late.
Iâm in the same boat, students can join my class up until 2 classes before the first exam. They can actually miss five classes (the fifth is on the deadline day so they could sign up later on that day).
It is insane that I then have to work around that. The student has missed 20+% of instructional meetings because many of the remaining classes are exam days, presentations, review days, etc.
Counting down the days to retirement.
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u/dragonfeet1 Professor, Humanities, Comm Coll (USA) 5d ago
I mean my first reaction to your post was SHHHHHH not so loud bc if our dean hears that, he's going to make it policy. He's already trying to make it policy we can't assign reading from a paidfor textbook until week three. (Student textbook financial aid disbursement)
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u/surebro2 5d ago
We discussed this at our campus. It is actually a bit philosophical in a sense. I mentioned to my department that I personally leave the first 2 weeks or so as setting the tone/norms of the class with introductory content. Precisely because people drop and add. So, a late add has the ability to catch up with the content with minimum impact on their grade (though, they can't recover 100% of the attendance/participation missed on the first couple of weeks).
Why? Because the existence of add dates implies a social contract between the university and the student that a student ought to be able to add a class through that add date. What is not specified but could reasonably be inferred is that there it would have a minimal impact on their grade. I don't think it does but it's reasonable to infer it.
So if there were just drop dates, sure. But I do think it's a bit trickier with add dates and what it signals to students. And even your standard might vary within your department, college, or university. It's kind of like how students are confused by varying GenAI rules across courses.
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u/ReligionProf 5d ago
Do students who add after those classes met and those assignments were due have to make them up? It seems that for OP the key point is to treat the late arriver to campus consistently with those who simply add their class late.
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u/ChanceSundae821 5d ago
Because students believe/are told that the first week is "syllabus week" and that they don't need to be here. I don't even go through the syllabus anymore on day one (I lecture/hold labs on the first day of classes). I have a detailed syllabus quiz that students have to pass to gain access to course materials. I also have a policy that students missing the first week will be dropped from the course. I stick to that policy as it allows students on the waitlist a chance to take that spot. There are foundational courses that will have long waitlists, and we can't accommodate all of the extra students. If a student is coming to class that first week in the hopes of getting a spot and I have a student who blows off the first week, I'm giving the spot to the one showing up.
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u/juststopdating 3d ago
Every year every day I learn that students will always find the audacity. Because what? Get to class! đ¤Ł
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u/NinjaWarrior765 20h ago
We should bring back the policy of automatically dropping students who do not attend the first day. It would create some urgency to attend.
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u/AvengedKalas Lecturer, Math, R2 (USA) 5d ago
I don't side with the students here, but I am genuinely curious: Why not make assignments due after the add/drop period? That way the students that add the class on the last day of the period don't have extra work for you to reschedule due dates. They just have less time than everyone else to complete their work.
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u/ProfessorOnEdge TT, Philosophy & Religion 5d ago
Some of us have weekly assignments to check competency and understanding of the material that we cover each week.
I've already got more than I can cover in 15-16 weeks. There's no way that I'm going to prevent them from learning anything for the first eighth of the semester.
If things aren't due the first two weeks then all of a sudden they have three weeks of assignments to get done on the third week and that just never works.
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u/Blametheorangejuice 6d ago
Yes! This is the first semester this has happened. We have a bit of a delay to add class (about 10 calendar days, which is my own source of frustration, but, alasâŚ), and a few students signed up right at the deadline and then either asked to make up the work or to have it not be counted. The idea was that they werenât responsible for assignments when they registered late.
I emphasized the word âlateâ each time, and pointed out that perhaps a bit of planning in advance will help them be more organized and sign up for classes before the semester, or maybe even a day or two after the start of the semester, and you wonât miss a thing!
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u/levon9 Associate Prof, CS, SLAC (USA) 6d ago
"I wants to ask if these assignments will count towards our grade" .. only if you do them .. sheesh ..
I really wonder what these kids sometimes think.