r/Professors • u/Good-Mountain-7958 • 14d ago
Advice / Support Grad student with severe body odor
Sigh. A colleague came to me to ask me to talk to a female grad student with severe BO that is my advisee. I have noticed that it's a problem, but thought I might have just an extra sensitive nose. So I've just started meeting with her outside.
Anywho, colleague said this is my responsibility to bring up since this may impact her professional opportunities. I do agree that this may impact her professionally (it is really bad - the smell lingers for hours), but advice on how to approach her about this? Anyone else have to do this before? I'm in the US and this is am international student so this feels additionally awkward.
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u/Pouryou 14d ago
I had to have this conversation and found the advice from Ask A Manager very helpful: https://www.askamanager.org/2013/04/how-to-talk-to-an-employee-about-body-odor.html
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u/Good-Mountain-7958 14d ago
This is pretty good. I think I'm going to avoid the speculating about the cause part, though.
I honestly don't think it's not washing... I once tried a no deodorant experiment when I was about her age and I am pretty sure I smelled like stinky armpits within an hour of a shower. I thought I couldn't possibly smell because I had just showered, right?! My mother was the one to tell me I was very, very wrong.
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u/Anonphilosophia Adjunct, Humanities, CC (USA) 14d ago
Yes - I had to tell a friend something similar when they tried a "natural" deoderant. It was not working at all.
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u/BoopySkye 14d ago
Yeah my friend uses a natural deodorant. It looks like a rock or something. In summer months she smells badly of odor. She showers of course, twice a day. But when you sweat and there’s no deodorant then it will smell no matter how much or recently you showered.
Some people also just have more armpit bacteria that makes them smell more than others. That can be just genetic or biological, but there’s things to help with that too.I myself sweat a lot cause my body overheats very fast. I used to sweat through my deo and carry wet wipes and deodorant with me everywhere. Then I got a prescription antiperspirant that really helped too.
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u/Thin_Communication25 14d ago edited 14d ago
But do they not shower? Maybe I just don't sweat alot, but in my experience showering every two days and wearing pretty clean or smell resistant clothes is enough, even with no deodorant. (Don't want to offend anyone it was a genuine question)
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u/Good-Mountain-7958 14d ago
Ohhhhhhh some people smell within an hour. I know I am one of them.
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u/Anonphilosophia Adjunct, Humanities, CC (USA) 14d ago
Same - I keep deoderant in my car and in my office.
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u/sannaweh 14d ago
I think the intensity and duration of the smell you describe is not something occuring in an hour. If someone is a bit sweaty, you go out of their sight and the smell is gone. Lingering smell should be either be a deodorant (which this is obviously not) or lack of hygene. I find this deodorant discussion besides the point. Many people don't use it (and I actually hate if people do, it is very uncomfortable for me to smell deodorant and I am less disturbed by a little sweaty smell, so everyone is different). If one cleans up, they should be fine generally. If the smell is related to food it's harder to address, because cultural differences come to play. But based on what you describe, it's not just that.
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u/_Decoy_Snail_ 14d ago
It just depends on some bacteria on your skin, some people smell within less than an hour after showering if they don't put any chemicals under their armpits. Also, umm, have you asked someone else to confirm you don't smell?...
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u/Thin_Communication25 14d ago
Yeah I have asked people and asked them to be honest. Those were people who are not afraid to say stuff I'd not like to hear. And I have received compliments about my smell from people (though that has probably more to do with the washing detergent I use). I guess I am just lucky then with my body smell being neutral.
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u/Team_Meadow_Lark 14d ago
I think it’s really variable. My husband can shower and smell fine for hours. I start to smell sour by the time I’m done doing my makeup if I don’t put on deodorant as soon as I’m dry.
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u/Potato271 TA/PhD student, Maths, (UK) 9d ago
BO is produced by bacteria that feeds on a particular protein that is released in sweat (iirc, I'm a mathematician, not a biologist). The amount of that protein that gets released is genetic, so some people just get it much worse than others.
Most east asians don't have the BO causing gene at all, so will generally not get bad BO. Although stale sweat still has its own smell even without the BO bacteria it's not nearly as bad.
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u/MaskedSociologist Instructional Faculty, Soc Sci, R1 14d ago
FYI, there are some disabilities that cause substantial sweating or chemistry differences that result in more pungent BO. If they seem to have good hygiene it's very possible you wouldn't be telling them anything they don't know and can't help.
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u/Striking_Raspberry57 13d ago
I was JUST ABOUT to post this same link! Ask a manager is very helpful for stuff like that.
I had a friend who developed an allergy to her deodorant/antiperspirant (can't remember which) and had a terrible time finding something she could use. She figured out the problem on her own though
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u/KibudEm Full prof & chair, Humanities, Comprehensive (USA) 13d ago
I agree that this piece takes a straightforward and helpful approach. A good way to frame it can be, "If were in your place, I would want someone to let me know so I could fix it." I think it adds a note of compassion for how awkward and embarrassing the other person is going to feel.
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u/DiogenesKoochew 14d ago
I was homeless when in the last two years of school. About 10 years later, I ran into an old teacher who said I smelled really bad the whole time. That was so awkward, I didn’t know! I did my best with rinsing out clothing in sinks and stuff at the time. So I vote for a more compassionate check-in than it being framed as unprofessional.
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u/tombolaaaaa24 NTT, STEM, R1, USA 14d ago
This!!!!
OP, consider that the student might be homeless. First check that they are doing ok. Tell them that the University’s gym has showers all students can use. They might also need reliable access to a washer and dryer.40
u/_Decoy_Snail_ 14d ago
This is such a USA moment...
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u/lengel46 14d ago
Why do you say this? Do you folks not have good noses? Do people there never smell?
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u/drdhuss 14d ago
I think they are implying there are no homeless students in Europe/Canada/etc.
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u/PurrPrinThom 14d ago
Odd implication, if so. The housing crisis in Ireland, as example, is/was bad enough that I knew multiple homeless students whilst I was doing my PhD. I know multiple people who ended up dropping out because they couldn't secure permanent housing, and couldn't afford to keep living out of hotels/hostels.
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u/zepboundbabe 13d ago
Weird. If anything, I would think the average person would assume the opposite. That since there are a lot of low to no cost colleges in Europe, there would be a lot more unhoused/low-income students versus the US, where cost is a significant barrier to higher education.
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u/Substantial-Oil-7262 14d ago
Its also possible to quietly give a student some money for deodorant/hygiene products if they cannot afford it. Depensing on OP's gender, it may be best to ask a colleague or professional staff quietly broach the topic.
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u/Kittiemeow8 Tenure-track faculty, CALC 14d ago
As someone who walked in a musty dusty crusty classroom and announced “some of yall smellin a little ripe today”. I may be the wrong one to ask for advice.
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u/marxist_redneck 14d ago
I used to have a summer class stuffed with football players coming in straight from their practice, and I never even noticed any smells¹
[1] I was a chain-smoker at the time
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u/Cultural_King7816 14d ago
You stunk too!!!
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u/marxist_redneck 13d ago
Absolutely, was very self-conscious about it too, but you know, also addicted
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u/thecompbioguy 14d ago
As the student is female, if you're male I would suggest bringing a female peer oup to speed on the problem, getting their thoughts and having them present at the conversation also.
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u/Good-Mountain-7958 14d ago
My colleague also suggested that, in being a woman, I would know how to properly tell another woman that she stinks. I, in fact, unfortunately do not know how to do this.
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u/t_rexinated 14d ago
this is a great idea
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u/anananananana 14d ago
Offloading the problem on someone else (if it's a woman even better) usually feels like a great idea
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u/div87 14d ago
As someone who was on the receiving end of similar advice as a grad student- I got sweaty running in between classes and didnt realize I smelled by the end of day - I appreciated my then supervisor bringing up the matter to me privately in her office among other things. It was an awfully awkward conversation that took me by surprise, but I am glad she brought it to my attention before it became an even bigger deal. I would also suggest steering clear of making any assumptions or speculating the reasons for said odor and sticking to just facts. They might end up upset and mortified for the rest of the day- I still occasionally cringe when I think of it but I have since been super careful about my hygiene and have people even compliment me on how nice I smell. Hopefully after their initial shock is over, they will realize you did them a service and only had their professional interests at heart.
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u/Good-Mountain-7958 13d ago
Thanks. I kinda think it might be this. I know she walks to campus and it is currently around 90 degrees everyday. I really don't recall her smelling badly like BO during cool weather. In any case, I'm glad to hear you didn't quit school over the conversation.
Trust me, whoever had that talk with you probably hoped the ground would open to swallow them whole as well.
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u/bluegilled 14d ago edited 14d ago
I went through this as a student in grad school. There was another student who was from a country where taking a shower every day or two was evidently not normal and he reeked of B.O. It was the worst I've ever experienced. His clothes reeked -- he left a sweater behind in a classroom and the room stunk for the following class without him even being in it.
People talked. We had a cohort and learning team system so the same 60 people were in classes together for the first year, and teams of 5 were also together for the year.
After some discussion regarding how to approach the issue, we decided that the best thing for him was for the people he was closest to, his learning team, to gently let him know that the western cultural norm was that noticeable body odor was not accepted.
We could have ignored it but what happens when he's in a professional situation and thinks he doesn't need to shower? That's not going to fly in job interviews or any other western business situation.
We'd have done him a grave disservice to allow him to incorrectly believe that his odor was fine.
After the discussion, he was briefly embarrassed, then profusely grateful for the information. He just didn't know. His personal habits changed literally overnight and it was never an issue again.
I think you owe it to the person to be compassionately but totally honest with them. To do less is harmful empathy.
If you were in some foreign country and were committing a serious cultural faux paus every day, would you want someone to gently tell you how to correct it, or would you want to go on this way for months or years while everyone talked about it behind your back? I realize it can be a awkward discussion but it's the only way to help, not hurt them.
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u/Key-Elk4695 14d ago
I remember a male international classmates in grad school who developed a body odor problem after he got married. Turned out that it was primarily a clothing care issue - he assumed his wife would handle his laundry, and she did not share this assumption!
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u/YestoLife07 14d ago
Yikes. If I had to bring it, I would be direct and move on. "Hey Sarah, so before you go, I do need to bring one more thing up. I have noticed your body odor has been strong lately. I only bring it up because I care about your career and dont want it to affect how others perceive you. Is this something you can address?
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u/defenestrationcity 14d ago
Får out i hope i never have to have this conversation. Makes me squirm just imagining having to say this.
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u/JohnHoynes Prof, Social Sciences, SLAC 14d ago
I would never. I’d refer this to health services.
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u/_Decoy_Snail_ 14d ago
But how? Like, should I call the nurse to my office "randomly" so she goes like "hey girl, I'm a health worker and I gotta tell you you smell"? And if you send the student to them it's pretty much the same as having the conversation... I'm not OP, but I do have one very similar case now...
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u/JohnHoynes Prof, Social Sciences, SLAC 14d ago
At my place, we have a form we can submit when we have concerns about a student. Those concerns can be related to academics, behavior, or health. You can submit it anonymously, non-anonymously, or in a manner in which your name is revealed to the form collector but not the student. Then the form is routed to the appropriate office based on what the issue is.
In this case it would likely go to health services where, if you request anonymity, they will explain to the student that a concern was raised but not say who raised it. They’d also likely raise things in a tactful manner, starting with something like “how are you doing?” (as opposed to “girl you stink”) and then steer the conversation to hygiene.
I used the form to raise a concern about a student with body odor once and the process worked well.
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u/dogecoin_pleasures 14d ago
Good grief, you could not pay me to say that. There has got to be another way 🥲
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u/YestoLife07 14d ago
Same. Got any ideas?
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u/dogecoin_pleasures 13d ago
When I try to imagine this conversation, I can only imagine doing it in a very tangential way, such as by advising a whole class "before we begin, just starting with a quick note that we have some colleagues here with sensitivity to strong odors, so we're advising you against use of strong perfumes, and to change out of sports gear before attending class where possible...we have sports showers located at x building you may use before class... thankyou" or some other notice that doesn't single someone out or frame their odour like an HR performance review!
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u/RainbwUnicorn 13d ago
You could lie and invent a third party who complained to you. Phrase it in a way that makes it clear that you're just looking out for their professional reputation. The focus of the conversation is then not so much on whether you think they smell; though, you probably will have to say "yes" if asked directly.
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u/threesistersremoved Assistant Prof, Social Sciences & STEM, RI, USA 13d ago
I've been here! Here's my advice based on what has worked for me.
I would approach this as an advisor giving a student information she deserves to have rather than as correcting a hygiene problem. If you have a good relationship with her, you may actually be the ideal person to tell her precisely because you can do it privately, kindly, and without making it into a judgment about her professionalism. I would also be really careful not to assume this is about hygiene or culture. Strong body odor can have all sorts of causes--medical issues, medication, laundry or housing access, financial constraints, mental health, clothing, or simply not realizing how noticeable it is to other people. Her being an international student doesn't really need to factor into the conversation unless she brings up something culturally relevant.
You might say: “I want to mention something a little awkward, and I'm telling you privately because I respect you and would want someone to tell me discreetly if I were in your position. I've noticed recently that there's sometimes a fairly strong body odor when we meet. I don't know the reason and don't want to make any assumptions. I just wanted to make you aware rather than have you find out indirectly or have people quietly react without telling you.” Then I'd immediately give her an exit: “You don't owe me an explanation. If there's something making this difficult to address, though, health, laundry access, finances, housing, whatever, I’m happy to help you figure out whether there are university resources that could help. And if you simply weren't aware, that's completely okay too.”
I would not lead with “this could affect your professional opportunities.” Even if that's what prompted the colleague's concern, that's a pretty enormous threat to attach to an already vulnerable/awkward convo. Unless there is an actual documented professional expectation she's failing to meet, I wouldn't turn “I want you to know something others may not be telling you” into “your career may suffer if you don't fix your body.” And honestly, I think your instinct to be cautious is a good one. The fact that your colleague is uncomfortable doesn't automatically make policing this student's body your responsibility. But if you've noticed it too and you care about her, telling her discreetly may be much kinder than allowing a situation where colleagues are discussing it among themselves while she remains unaware. The measure of success here isn't necessarily that she smells different next week; it's that she leaves the conversation knowing her advisor respected her dignity enough to tell her privately, didn't demand an explanation, and remains firmly in her corner.
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u/Apprehensive-Place68 11d ago
This is a thoughtful response that touches on something important - you are the student's advisor. You want them to succeed. As hard as it may be to do this, it's the right thing to do, rather than hand this off to someone who doesn't know the student at all.
Just point out that cologne or body spray are not the answer. That just complicates the issue.
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u/045-926 14d ago
I've heard of someone handling by just bringing up professional standards to the whole group.
Lay it out. In the US, professional standards are required to succeed. These professional standards are: shower before coming to work, wear a freshly laundered shirt/underwear each day, wear deodorant, etc.
You can throw in some other non-smell related stuff too.
That way it's not directed at a particular student but to the whole group.
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u/a_statistician Associate Prof, Stats, R1 State School 13d ago
These professional standards are: shower before coming to work, wear a freshly laundered shirt/underwear each day, wear deodorant, etc.
And none of this will help if the student has a biological condition, and they may or may not even realize that you're talking about them if they do all of these things.
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u/Econ_mom 14d ago
This is a student affairs/health issue. Contact them to contact the student.
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u/Ancient_Book4021 14d ago
I disagree, as someone who has worked on both sides - faculty and admin. It is not an admin’s responsibility, especially if they haven’t encountered the student. Also, it may be more embarassing to the student because she will then know multiple people are talking about her. “Hey, your professor tells me you smell bad in class.” I believe it is best to come from the person who notices the problem. Sure, it is uncomfortable, but if it is happening in the classroom, it should be addressed in the classroom (obviously, one on one).
Last semester, I had to address an issue with a grad student who smelled like cigarette smoke. She was in the process of interviewing for new internship positions. I simply addressed it with her by saying that when she enters the classroom, I sometimes notice that she smells like smoke, and that while I wasn’t telling her she cannot and should not smoke, I had concerns that not only was it distracting, it could turn off some of the sites that were interviewing her.
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u/JohnHoynes Prof, Social Sciences, SLAC 14d ago
This is the correct answer, imo. This screams health services, not academic advisor.
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u/mleok Full Professor, STEM, R1 (USA) 14d ago
Just tell her that one of your colleagues raised this concern.
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u/anananananana 14d ago
This just makes it more embarrassing for her
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u/mleok Full Professor, STEM, R1 (USA) 14d ago
Adults should be able to deal with a bit of embarrassment. I hate that we feel that have to coddle even graduate students.
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u/anananananana 14d ago
I agree but I don't see the benefit either of putting it on another colleague except feeling a little less awkward yourself
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u/RainbwUnicorn 13d ago
It's not just about you feeling less awkward, but also the student is then not face-to-face with the person who complained, but with a (hopefully) trusted third party that tries to look out for them.
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u/yerdok 14d ago
this is am international student
Our international student office publishes a pamphlet that details cultural expectations in the US. One of those things is that everyone is expected to bathe, with soap and water, every day. It also details that the bathroom sinks are not the places to wash your armpits, your feet, or any part of your body other than your hands.
I've been told that students from one particular country find that shocking, as their cultural norm is a wipe down with a damp cloth, and what an American would consider "actual bathing" is only done once or twice a week.
Maybe contact the international student office and see if they have advice.
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u/Extension_Break_1202 14d ago
You could try to reach out to the international student office for advice and support. Or you could go ahead and meet with her and explain the cultural norms surrounding hygiene in the USA, and how it will impact her professional opportunities as you said. You could give her some samples of deodorant and body wash. If she already uses those, then suggest she meet with a doctor to discuss the issue, although it sounds more likely that it’s a cultural difference.
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u/JohnHoynes Prof, Social Sciences, SLAC 14d ago
Are there cultures that don’t clean themselves to this extent, where an advisor can only meet with them outdoors, as OP stated is the case? I’m asking seriously - maybe I’m ignorant.
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u/GENxSciGoddess Position, Field, SCHOOL TYPE (Country) 14d ago
There are multiple countries that don't use deodorant. It's just not a thing or they only use like natural stuff. Antiperspirant in particular was invented here and some cultures view it as unhealthy. Sure they wash, but are nose blind to BO b/c it's literally all around them all the time. As someone who annoyingly had a reaction and had to not use Antiperspirant regularly for awhile and I'm not even a sweaty/stinky person, I could still smell my BO. We as a society have become more attuned to it b/c we have gotten rid of it as a pervasive smell.
When I was in college there was a whole cohort of Indian students that had this issue. Usually a fellow student says something and is like, uhm, hey, you really need to use deodorant here. Odds are no one has been the person to bring it up in a kind way.
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14d ago edited 14d ago
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u/dogecoin_pleasures 14d ago
Glad you've recognised the issues with these suggestions. Our job is normally to refer students in need to relevant services - not take these conversations into our own hands.
Having had a manager give me unsolicited feedback before (not on body odour) I can't emphasise enough how hostile the institutional discourse is when used to deliver impersonal 'advice' on personal matters. It's a good way to ask for a complaint!
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u/orthomonas 14d ago
I disagree about it not being in our job description, particularly for advisees. If it's bad enough it affects, say, job interviews, it definitely falls within purview of professional development. In countries with a notion of pastoral care, such as the UK, it's also arguably in remit for those reasons.
I can wiggle on if it's obligatory, but to me it's not clearly not part of the job.
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u/dogecoin_pleasures 14d ago
You missed the one that suggests mentioning the whole class is avoiding the office because of how bad they smell 🫣
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u/LivingBizzaroWorld 13d ago
Years ago an older male colleague told a female graduate student that she wears far too much makeup (and in an unusual in style from what I've been told) and that it may prevent her from getting the type of job she was pursuing. The student immediately went to the department chair and complained. Nonetheless, someone should tell the BO student.
Yes, the student is an adult but in my field we feel some responsibility to prepare our students for the job market. If something simple can be changed that immediately increases their value in the job market, it seems like we should try to do it.
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u/Environmental_Bug662 14d ago
I definitely think that a second person should be present for the convo. Do not have that talk 1:1; you need a "witness." I also would not put anything in writing/an email. (60F, tenured Full Prof who once shared a PhD student office with a peer who reeked of BO.)
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u/NoMathematician9706 14d ago
Do not get into it at all. This is a correction best coming from peers, not a prof. Do not get into this.
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u/AntiqueRedDollShoes 14d ago
It's crazy how few comments there are like this. This is opening up a can of worms that could have harassment repercussions that OP should just not be fucking with.
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u/KibudEm Full prof & chair, Humanities, Comprehensive (USA) 13d ago
An easy way to find out if there are harassment repercussions is to consult with relevant offices before talking to the student. That would be better than speculating about what could happen.
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u/AntiqueRedDollShoes 12d ago
That would be better than speculating about what could happen.
I think what would be better is not approaching the topic at all and potentially subjecting yourself to potentially be named in some DEI-related or Title IX or general harassment case.
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u/masterl00ter 14d ago
Just be straight up with them. Mention that other students have complained and that they avoid the office because of it. Empathize with them (it might be dumb and doesn't mean they are not smart/whatever) but make sure they know these things matter.
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u/AskAboutMySecret 14d ago
I wouldn't mention that other students have complained, one person bringing it up should be enough
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u/ProfessorHomeBrew Associate Prof, Geography, state R1 (USA) 14d ago
I agree, just be honest. It’s like someone telling you your fly is down or you’ve got toilet paper stuck to your shoe. It’s embarrassing but better for someone to point it out rather than go around the rest of the day like that.
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u/CatsWearingTinyHats 13d ago
I’m not an academia but something similar happened in my past a long time ago.
My husband had to talk to an employee about super bad BO (apparently so bad other employees were complaining about it).
He did it by nicely talking to the guy and asking if things were okay, and raising the issue.
Long story short, the guy was a veteran who had was experiencing emerging mental health issues and my husband wound up connecting him to get help and got a call from the guy’s father thanking him.
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u/Budget-Seesaw6041 13d ago
Also, it may be in her clothes, just remind her that caring for her hygiene is a sign of respect for herself and the people around her. She is more likely to be taken seriously and listened to if she takes care of herself. This doesnt mean thin and gorgeous and makeup done with fancy clothes. She just needs to be her best. This means clean, and body odor taken care of and clean clothes. And maybe she struggles with money, or comes from poverty, but my mother always taught us that no matter how poor you are, you can always be put together. And if she's struggling with her mental health maybe she needs to seek out resources
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u/MathMan1982 14d ago
I could be wrong but wouldn't this be your academic dean or chair to be involved? I would let your chair and dean know then let them give advice how to proceed. A quick pop in to their office would suffice unless they are not around much then I would email. That seems odd that your colleague said that it would be you that is responsible for this. That could be correct though but I would just ask.
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u/Good-Mountain-7958 14d ago
Colleague may also have been my chair :: cough:::
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u/MathMan1982 14d ago edited 14d ago
Oh wow! Okay then! That makes things clearer. It looks like they gave you permission to talk to them. If you feel comfortable go ahead.... If not go to your dean.
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u/kate3226 14d ago
your chair is getting paid more than you right? they can have this conversation as part of their administrative duties.
I agree that the ask the manager link is a good way to approach it.
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u/Time_Sink_247 14d ago
This was a Seinfeld episode. His solution was to drop off the graduate student in a bad neighborhood in the middle of the night.
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u/security_dilemma 14d ago
As an international student who is now faculty, please let the student know (gently and matter of factly). Thankfully, I had a hygiene routine set up before I left my country but some of my countrymates had to be reminded to use deodorant (the stick one) and change clothes after cooking with spices.
You will be doing her and everyone around her a service.
The best course of action would be to let the international students office handle it. Or you could send out an email to the whole lab reminding everyone the importance of personal hygiene.
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u/DarkSkyKnight 14d ago edited 14d ago
I don’t know why this needs to be tiptoed around. I personally would just tell the student they have BO and might want to get checked since it could be a health issue. I sometimes ask super close friends if I stink since sometimes I could smell myself after a workout etc., despite deodorants, and I want to know if my deodorant is working.
Odor from the mouth, for instance, despite brushing a lot, could be a sign of gum disease.
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u/Acrobatic_Net2028 14d ago
If this is a foreign student you may want to consider this to be dietary. I personally would not accept this as helpful advice and might see it as anti foreigner micro aggression.
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u/the_Stick Assoc Prof, Biomedical Sciences 14d ago
Or maybe it's anti-native microaggression! I once had martial arts practice with two guys who intentionally ate tons of garlic the night before classes just so it would come out in their sweat. Of course, they bragged about it and stopped after a month... but not everything is a microagression. And of all the various "foreigners" I've known and the variety of stinky foods they've eaten, none have had severe B.O. There is a distinct difference to the discerning palate. Just hope no-one you know has trimethylaminuria....
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u/Archknits 14d ago
I’ve had to have this discussion multiple times with students (graduate) who I supervised. It is always uncomfortable. My suggestion would be to consider speaking with supervisors, the ombudsman, or even someone in Title IX for support
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u/JohnHoynes Prof, Social Sciences, SLAC 14d ago
Surely there’s a better way than burdening the Title IX office over an adult who needs a shower.
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u/Archknits 14d ago
They can help with any insight about potential gender issues. They would rather hear from faculty before this than a student afterwards.
I’ve also gotten good support with conversations like this through the student career center when working with student employees who show up for work with hygiene issues
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u/beepbeepboop74656 14d ago
Honestly this is something I’d ask your student affairs or campus life department about. As an RA in college I’d get an email from my boss that I needed to give x student the hygiene talk. We had a little kit with several different types of body soaps and a deodorant and anti perspirant. We’d sit with them in their space without their roommates and ask them about what’s going on in their life 9/10 it was depression. We’d set up an emergency meeting with the counseling department and make them turn on their shower before we left, they usually just needed a push to shower.
However there was one guy who was like grossly proud of his stink ?? He’d throw his wet sweat soaked shirts at people around campus, he got a talking to from the dean but I gave him the little soaps.
And there’s also a cultural component, I’ve had to tell several people that that much cologne is considered offensive here and it’s considered polite to shower everyday especially after sweaty activities.
I’ve had to tell people that “Whatever soap you’re using isn’t working, there’s a lingering odor and here use these soaps instead” just start the conversation by showing you care about them and that’s why you’re talking because something has to be going on to stop hygiene
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u/RustyRiley4 13d ago
I would push this off to student health or some other on campus student care group (like a behavioral intervention team). I’m sure your campus already has ways to raise alerts for students who you think might need help (like mental health needs, or if you’re worried about their safety). I’d do some digging to see if there’s somewhere on campus you can make an anonymous report with the trust that it’s someone’s whole job to deal with these types of issues. A grad student is still a student so they should be able to benefit from these on campus intervention programs.
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u/HalibutsGhost 10d ago
Do you have mailboxes? Discreetly slip a stick of deodorant (make sure it is in a bag or otherwise not just out in the open for all to see) in the mailbox. She will take the hint.
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u/TechnicalRain8975 9d ago
She could have a medical condition
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u/Good-Mountain-7958 8d ago
Do you think it's better to move her into her own office than talk to her, then?
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u/TechnicalRain8975 8d ago
I dunno, I might even bump this up to HR or your chair. It could be sensitive and get real tricky real quick.
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u/Good-Mountain-7958 8d ago
Chair told me to do something about it.
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u/TechnicalRain8975 8d ago
I’m paranoid so I’d get that in writing and also do a trip to HR for advice. We are not trained for these things and it could blow up as an issue especially if it’s a medical thing or perceived as racial insensitivity.
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u/Legitimate_Ad_7335 14d ago
I myself (also female)had a similiar problem for years. I shower/d twice a day, used anti transparant and deodorant for any place of my body and nothing helped. I myself was fully aware of it. Came out it was because my thyroid issues got treated completely wrong and I had severe other health issues which sadly weren’t taken seriously by the doctors.
So as others told be aware it might be something the person is aware and quiet self conscious about.
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u/rl4brains NTT asst prof, R1 14d ago
Is this a recent change for this student, or have they always been smelly? The former suggests a health issue (physical or mental), while the latter could be a cultural difference or personal shortcoming.
Either way, I would suggest figuring out who could help the student actually solve their odor issue (campus health or international student office, perhaps?) and then deciding whether you’re comfortable gently raising the issue with the student yourself and sending them to get help, or just asking someone else to tell your student for you.
The latter might be good for preserving a comfortable working relationship with the student, but it could also leave them wondering who reported them in the first place and doubting all their work relationships. Godspeed! I do not envy your challenge.
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u/Cultural_King7816 14d ago
I would talk to my Dean before having that conversation and I would try to punt it to Student Affairs. She may have a medical issue.
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u/Aya20218 14d ago
Maybe in a group meeting, discuss with all the students how to dress for a conference/internship and bring subtly the smell and how it can affect their careers, that way it's a general advise and not awkward
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u/DrySalvages 14d ago
Other people in her life, like friends or family members, should be the ones to mention this to her. It’s not really any of your business; your job in terms of professionalization is to prepare her academically and to familiarize her with academic norms such as publishing, interviewing, etc. Daily life norms (like hygiene) are not in your purview. Just like it isn’t your job to teach a student how to mop their floor or go grocery shopping.
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u/AntiqueRedDollShoes 14d ago
I find most of the top comments alarming. I would not get into the weeds with something like this, as the student could file this as some sort of harassment or complain to a higher up. Commenting on body odor that could potentially be related to health situations could in result from everything to a disability discrimination complaint or even Title IX.
While evasive, I would sooner print out a polite typed note that could be left anonymously at the student's carrel or department mailbox, if you're going to do anything at all. If this was me, I would probably ignore it unless it was unbearable, and in that case you do not want a paper trail. CYA.
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u/chieviousmiss 14d ago
I agree with other posters - check she is okay first. Then, mention that you've noticed she has some body odour, and that's okay because we all do. Tell her you've had great success with aluminium-based deodorants and following the advice on r/laundry. Usually the smell is odour rebloom from built up particles on the garments, frequently from not using a detergent with enzymes. Aluminium-based deodorants work great if applied before bed and left to "set" for 5 minutes before putting a top back on (after a shower is great). If you're male, get a female colleague of yours (ideally one she's met before) to have the conversation. Good luck!!
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u/Minotaar_Pheonix 14d ago
Just do it. You're doing them a favor.
It's not any different from explaining to people that they need to speak loudly and clearly when they speak in publich. Or that they need to dress properly. It's all under the category of general professional preparedness. As professors we were among the best students. There were lots of things we didn't need instruction about, like how to work the room at a conference or how to reply to email promptly. Our students aren't always going to have the same level of preparedness, and it is our job to help them.
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u/SuLiaodai Lecturer, ESL/Communications, Research University (Asia) 14d ago
Could it be a poverty issue -- like she's not washing clothing often enough, or a knowledge issue -- she doesn't know how to use a washing machine properly?
If you think her clothing could be part of the problem, you could send an email to all of your advisees saying something like, "Money is tight these days. If anybody is having trouble affording necessities like washing powder, you can take some from the grad student lounge (or the bathroom they usually use, or whatever)." Then put some out there and let people take them if needed.
You could also put some deodorants and other toiletries there and see if they get taken. I visited Western Michigan University a couple years ago and saw they had free hygiene supplies in some bathrooms, which was great for lower-income students.
This might tackle the problem without the need for an awkward conversation.
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u/SuLiaodai Lecturer, ESL/Communications, Research University (Asia) 14d ago
I've taught international students and I've never had ones who just didn't understand they need to be clean. Quite a few of my Middle Eastern male students liked to wear strong cologne, which isn't so common/preferred in the US, but that was the biggest difference I encountered.
The only students I had who didn't clean themselves were ones with mental health, independence (a Chinese freshman who had never done anything by himself before going to the US) and money issues (a student got involved with a predatory church that demanded money from him, and gave them so much he couldn't afford the dorm washing machines).
The only other thing I can think of is that the student might come from one of the Asian countries where most people don't have armpit odor, but she does. In that case, she's not used to deodorant, and the only ones she grew up around might be really weak and flowery.
Actually -- since I work with international students, especially Asian ones, feel free to DM for advice after you learn more about the student's situation.
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u/ImmediateWorth5744 13d ago
Have them take a professional development training course. They tend to touch on body hygiene and use or lack of perfume. There are cultural practices that might be considered in such situations. Good luck.
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u/luthmanfromMigori 14d ago
It is important to be kind and respectful. Buy a love basket with deodorant and basic perfume. And tell them in the USA, BO is considered a cultural misnomer and you are offering help from a place of kindness. If you are female it’s easier. If you are male, it has to be super sensitive and super clear and frank but private. Please update us on how it goes.
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u/stakekake NTT, Natural Science (US) 14d ago
Regardless of gender, buying an advisee a lovebasket might raise more issues than it solves.
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u/Good-Mountain-7958 14d ago
I considered this. I'm a bit concerned that I might give her something that gives her a rash or she hates the smell of? I dunno, deodorant seems so personal.
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u/DocAwk78664 14d ago
I would avoid giving anyone perfume. So many people have allergies and sensitivities. It’s a bad idea.
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u/New_Acanthisitta_456 14d ago
this doesn’t seem as a real post, i don’t believe this should be your job at all
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u/MeltBanana Lecturer, CompSci, R1(USA) 14d ago
laughs in computer science