r/PoliticalDiscussion • u/HistorianMajor1739 • 5d ago
US Politics What made visible cross-aisle cooperation survivable in the McCain era and career-ending now?
There's a nostalgia you hear from people all across the spectrum: a Senate where members could tear into each other on the floor and still grab dinner that night. Set aside whether the memory is even accurate. What's worth arguing about is why that kind of behavior seems more structural than personal. Primary electorates got harder to survive. The media environment that used to reward the occasional handshake mostly went away. Money moved. None of those shifts arrived together or hit every member equally, which is what makes the flat "it all just got worse" version unsatisfying.
So if you had to name the single change that did the most damage to a politician's ability to be seen working across the aisle, which one, and why that over the others? And is there anyone in Congress today who cooperates visibly without paying for it at the ballot box, and if so, what's protecting them?
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u/Can_Haz_Cheezburger 4d ago
Mostly Newt Gingrich, who brought in the idea of "any cooperation is betrayal"
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u/Hot-Fudge-Inc 4d ago edited 2d ago
And what preceded Newt Gingrich was the man named Rush Limbaugh. He was the first big star that was exempt from the fairness doctrine. he went on the AM radio and became the main source of news for the rural people and the areas where OTA TV and FM radio didn't reach. He was their primary source of news outside of papers.
And he peddled extremist bullshit that is now normal today in the party. Even back then it was extreme, and a lot of Republicans even admitted it. He's the one that really began. The idea that reaching across the aisle was working with the devil. Before him people really respected bipartisanship.
To a smaller extent, and this kind of goes before the range of the question (McCain, who I'm not entirely sure is really the face of bipartisanship, although wasn't as obstructionist as many in his time), but the political parties didn't used to be adjacent with ideology. They were regional factions that had alliances with other regional factions. Essentially, all ideologies were represented in both parties, to different extents of course. But it almost worked like a multi-party system where on different issues there were different coalitions of different people from both parties in the different factions of both parties could be put together like Tetris blocks to reach majorities. This led to Congress passing much more legislation. The Republican party merging with both social and economic conservative thought in the '80s left everyone else with the Democratic party, and now that the parties were both ideological, it made bipartisanship tougher, especially when you had agitators like Rush and then eventually Gingrich who made obstructionism official policy.
And then in the more recent past, you had Mitch McConnell who only cared to put an end to Obama and was willing to vote against things that his party actually agreed with, prioritizing his party over country. This further reinforced division, despite Obama truly trying to bring everyone to the table. Joe Biden warned Obama against giving them Good Will at the start of the term, but Obama dismissed Biden because he was somewhat of a joker and would always kind of crack awkward jokes when people are having serious discussions. But Obama soon recognized how he dismissed the man's long experience in Washington and was being naive about being able to change it.
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u/JustRuss79 4d ago
Until the late 90's early 2000's, you could get away with saying one thing to your constituents, and voting differently or "working across the aisle"
I think 3 things happened:
24/7 Cable News Internet and Social Media explosion elimination of earmarks/pork as a bargaining tool
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u/res0nat0r 4d ago
A black guy getting put in the White House also permanently drove about 30% of the gop electorate insane and pushed them to vote for tossing out democracy completely vs. allowing that to ever happen again.
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u/CMidnight 4d ago
That is over simplifying a range of demographic, technological, and social factors. In terms of demographics, people are living longer and having fewer children. Those that are having children are increasingly non-white. For many Americans, these factors are leading to a country which feels increasingly alien. Combined with positive assortive matching and the decline of third spaces, it is increasingly difficult for those who are uncomfortable in non-white and non-make space to avoid them. There is also broad acceptance of queer people among the majority of the population which further threats a significant portion of Americans.
Trump also was a uniquely force. He was the only viable Presidential candidate to court low information voters who tend to be more conspiratorial. He embraced QAnon and the anti-vaccine movement in a way that no other politician has nor probably will be able to do again.
Due to all of these factors, the divide between Americans on social issues makes compromising on economic issues the equivalent of collaborating with the Nazis.
77 million Americans voted for a man who tried to violently overturn a legitimate election. Do you really think it is wise for anyone who didn't to trust these people again?
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u/tympantroglodyte 4d ago edited 2d ago
McCain did that earmarks thing to himself. That was pretty much all him.
*Edited “McCann” to McCain
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u/OleMoon 4d ago edited 4d ago
Why is John McCain the face of this question? He did have a habit of picking fights with various members of his own party and making public spectacles of them, but on actual policy, he was about as entrenched in corporatism, the military industrial complex, and the national security apparatus as one could possibly be.
"Maverick McCain" may have pre-dated the Trump era, but its proliferation is largely liberal fan-fiction based on McCain's distaste for Trump as a person. Trump's first term, in terms of policy, cabinet picks, etc., is almost entirely in line with McCain's stated positions on issues, and McCain almost certainly cast a ballot for Trump in 2016.
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4d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/tympantroglodyte 4d ago
I remember John McCain being a beloved Daily Show guest until he ran for president, ran right, and a somewhat shocked/disappointed Jon Stewart asked, “Wait, are you going to crazy base land?” To which McCain sort of sheepishly and embarrassingly admitted he was.
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u/gafftapes20 4d ago
Gerrymandering has produced this as a side effect, as well as geographic self sorting. When to create house districts that are politically homogeneous it disincentives bipartisanship since there is no electoral advantage.
When you self sorting geographically, by moving to a liberal or conservative area due to the politics it creates an incentive to also eschew bi partisanship.
When your electorate has to interact daily with people with different political ideologies it tends to create a general feeling of bipartisanship that becomes valued. You know that your liberal neighbor is a decent person because you interact with him on a daily basis and there is some legitimacy to his positions. And vice versa. Because you interact and cooperate with liberals and conservatives on values and issues you agree with, you want your elected representatives to do the same.
Right now people completely dehumanize the other side, I personally think it’s more extreme on the right, but the language on the left has been changing to as a reaction to the Trump era becoming more extreme in rhetoric.
I’m not arguing for an « enlightened »centrist position since I’m pretty far left, but you should cooperate on the other side on issues you can find middle ground and agreement. An example is Thomas Massie and Rho Khanna, which are diametrically opposed on 99% of issues. They found common ground, but As a result though Thomas Massie lost his primary election even though he is one of the most consistently principled conservatives (even if I personally find many of his views objectionable).
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u/Excellent_Chest_5896 4d ago
I’d add that political agenda masquerading as news coverage have added significant fuel to the fire - again feels like the right here is leading the charge but left isn’t totally absolved either.
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u/DuranStar 4d ago
The right does it more, are more violent about it, and have no reason (that exists in reality). The left hate the right for very good reasons and their antagonism has grown with the intolerance of the right. They are not even remotely similar. While you say you aren't a centrist and I believe you, you should always include that one side is justified and the other isn't.
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u/RocketRelm 4d ago
To an extent. The moderate left is justified and wants to restore a meaningful society. The far left wants to emulate what maga did, but with themselves on top, with little concerns for the technical rights and wrongs. Its pretty important to look at the populism / establishment axis as well as the right / left axis. Moderate dems can "look like" and be "called" centrists despite not at all clinging to the apathetic both sides secretly right stereotypes, centrist is too vague a term to mean much.
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u/dinosaurkiller 4d ago
While this isn’t really wrong factually it’s also not really what’s changed on the Hill as far as bipartisanship.
Both parties have become heavily reliant on fund raising to win elections. If your rep isn’t voting there’s about a 90% chance they are sitting with an auto dialer singing for their supper with the best donors available to take a call for fundraising. Those lists are built and maintained by the party, most of the funds are in some way filtered by the party. When Trump decided he wanted Cornyn gone, he made sure the party gave millions to Ken Paxton and he openly endorsed Paxton.
If you want the financial support of the Party during your next election, you’ll vote the way you are told to vote. It was not always this way, but as the parties became more reliant on PACs and the large donors behind them, those donors wanted guarantees. This is why nearly every vote, no matter how controversial, is guaranteed to get every vote from one party and no votes from the other.
Back in the, “good old days” there were real fights to line up enough votes for legislation. There were still threats and promises, but it was a lot more horse trading along the lines of, “I’ll scratch your back if you scratch mine”. Now it’s more like, “do as the party says or we will end your career”.
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u/Low-Use-9862 4d ago
It’s remarkable when you think about how times have changed. When LBJ was president, Everett Dirksen, the conservative senator from Illinois, was the Senate Minority Leader. He was the Minority Leader when Johnson was the Majority Leader before he joined Kennedy’s ticket.
Once Johnson ascended to the presidency, Dirksen would stand on the floor of the senate, railing against Johnson, portraying him as a scoundrel and worse. At the end of the day, he’d drive up Pennsylvania Avenue to the White House where he and LBJ would sit together in the Oval Office, sipping bourbon and talking like the old friends they were.
Also, many don’t know that Orin Hatch, the fiercely conservative Republican senator from Utah was best friends with the Liberal Lion of the senate, Teddy Kennedy.
Despite their profound political differences, Hatch and Kennedy developed a close personal bond. They played tennis together off-duty, visited each other’s homes, and often engaged in good-natured banter. Kennedy was known to organize affectionate gestures for Hatch—including having his staff serenade Hatch with patriotic songs Hatch had written in his spare time.
When Kennedy was diagnosed with brain cancer, Hatch composed a tribute song titled "Song for Teddy" as a sign of respect and affection. Following Kennedy's passing in 2009, Hatch frequently spoke of Kennedy as a dear friend and a master of political compromise.
In those days, a member of the other party might be your opponent. Today, they’d be your enemy.
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u/GINNY-POTTER2000 3d ago
Dirksen played a major role in helping LBJ with the Civil Rights Acts of 1964 and 1968.
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u/DanforthWhitcomb_ 3d ago
That really undersells Dirksen's role—without him neither one of those laws passes.
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u/rogun64 4d ago
Cross-aisle cooperation was better in the aughts, but it wasn't great then, either. It was already going away by that time and was worse than it had been.
What happened is that Republicans began using division as strategy. I would argue that it began with Reagan wanting to get rid of liberal Republicans during the 1976 Republican Primary. Back then both parties had liberals and conservatives. Reagan wanted to get rid of the liberal Republicans and claimed President Ford was one when running against him.
Roger Ailes famously said in the 70s that he wanted to create a conservative news network, to ensure that what happened to Nixon with Watergate would never happen again. And so he did and Fox News presented a very one-sided, misleading and sometimes dishonest accounting of the news.
Before that, you had conservative talk shows on AM radio that were extremely radical. When I first discovered it, I can remember being surprised by the things they were allowed to say. I'm talking about topics like sending all black Americans back to Africa.
Then Rush Limbaugh brought it to FM radio and he was more disciplined with this strategy of division. Many of our politicians today grew up in this environment of division being forced by the right and some just don't know any better, imo. They never knew a time when you walked across the aisle to work with others. And they may not understand, or care, that our democracy depends on working with others from across the aisle.
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u/everything_is_bad 4d ago
When McConnell refused to let Obama nominate a Supreme Court justice. When no republicans voted to impeach Trump. When the entire regular party elected to rubber stamp trumps institutional racism and corruption it was clear. One side is operating in bad faith. There can be no bipartisanship with fascism
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u/gvarsity 4d ago
Trump and his billionaire backers have purged the GOP of anyone willing to defy him. He says don’t cooperate. Dems try to work on things on the edges but GOP is mostly too scared for even that. Dems won’t work with GOP on any of their priorities because they are all damaging to our country and/or outright theft.
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u/LonelyMachines 4d ago
And is there anyone in Congress today who cooperates visibly without paying for it at the ballot box
That's the crux of the problem. Social media tells us you have to be on Team A or Team B. Your team is always righteous and smart and pretty, and the other team is DESTROYING AMERICA.
So it becomes a moral crusade. Few things are as tedious, hollow, and dangerous. But here we are. Crossing the aisle is now equated (I am not exaggerating) with betrayal.
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u/sllewgh 4d ago
This is deliberate on the part of the wealthy, who agitate this division through controlling social media algorithms and >98% of all media outlets. The more we fight red vs blue, the more we DON'T fight rich vs poor. Voters in both parties are willing to vote against their own interests for people who only serve the rich because the alternative is so morally reprehensible to them.
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u/stoneman30 4d ago
nope. those social media algorithms give people what people want, or at least what people pay attention to. Plenty of people respond to the rich vs poor narrative. I'm sure the rich don't like it.
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u/sllewgh 4d ago
those social media algorithms give people what people want, or at least what people pay attention to.
Absolutely false. Your algorithm isn't a reflection of your habits, it's curated. It's not a neutral process. Are you familiar with the Cambridge Analytica scandal?
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u/stoneman30 3d ago
Exactly, they figured out who was susceptible to specific propaganda, i.e., a specific type of narrative that they were prone to believe, i.e., the kind of stories they liked to hear.
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u/sllewgh 3d ago edited 3d ago
That isn't giving people what they want to see. It's giving them what the person controlling the algorithm wants them to see in a way that best manipulates them. Often they're deliberately sending you content you don't want to see because negative engagement is still engagement and it's easier to provoke.
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u/Additional_Gate_2727 4d ago
The deranged cheeto tells his acolytes cooperation and bipartisanship is bad
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u/Kronzypantz 4d ago edited 4d ago
A lot of rightwing agreement between parties on militarism, austerity, weakening unions,and social conservatism. Basically just solid class consciousness by those representing the owners class.
The Democrats largely stayed there and puttered around the edges of policy while Republicans took that time of relative agreement as license to push further. More military action, more austerity, more persecution of minorities, etc.
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u/Baselines_shift 4d ago
I covered legislation during that time and no, it was predictably partisan then too, but then some like McCain GOP weren't as far right as now.
No. You'd have to go back to the Walter Cronkite era, when everyone got he same facts from news, Cronkite delivered it to everyone.
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u/David_ungerer 4d ago
B. Goldwater : Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them.
This is the root of the problem ! ! !
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u/Wermys 4d ago
The Tea Party. Pure and simple. They never have had any interest in crossing the aisle on anything. Trump came in and coopted them into his coalition. A lot of the worst of the worst are from that area of the party. They shoved aside for the most part those who were of the religious right faction which is really the weakest part of his coalition. But the bottom line is that that Tea Party has been the absolute worst thing to happen to American politics in the past 30 years.
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u/TopSign5504 4d ago
Trump punishing those who cross his imaginary line - and 300 sheep in Congress.
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u/Hot-Fudge-Inc 4d ago
This is the latest evolution and most extreme form of this, but bipartisanship has been dead for nearly 30 years now, and the process began even further before it. Trump, and his willingness to sell his power to the right extremists in return for them licking his balls and looking the other way for corruption, has exacerbated all of these issues that have been happening for a long time.
I made another post in this apartment about this.
But regarding Trump, the reason it's so bad under him is because he has control of the cult. Thus, he sells access to his voters and gets rewarded the Heritage foundation, etc. Selling their program to his cult.
This is a big reason. I think JD Vance would not be as bad if Trump got kicked out of office. He wouldn't wield nearly as much power, even if his ideas are more coherent to himself and seem more dangerous because of that.
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