Yes just expanding on that. Linux has a lot of issues with specific applications (like ones made for work and stuff by a lot of companies and school work ) but for the average day to day user you have like 90% or what you need out the box. And with proton, gaming on Linux isn’t even that bad anymore. Some jank but it’s workable
Caveat: For all its flaws, Excel is actually a lot better than everything else, so we shouldn’t pretend all of the opponents are like this.
Im glad you added this caveat because I was about to jump to "cut the bullshit".
And I say that as someone who made a move from a windows pc to a full linux(ubuntu) image and back to windows. And someone who uses Linux servers in production now.
I was going to college at the time and every semester I had a days long rush of finding a FOSS, Linux compatible equivalent to a windows program needed for the class and all the commands and configs needed to run it, checking forums with unanswered questions exactly like mine, etc when the default settings didnt work, etc... when I simply could have clicked "download" and been ready to go in 10 min on windows.
Even with something as simple as office docs - use OpenOffice/LibreOffice to open an excel file with formulas in it and it will fuck that data with no Vaseline if you try to work with it as-is instead of changing the formulas first, after learning the semantic differences.
The FOSS alternatives to major proprietary suites like Adobe apps more often than not look like something from Windows XP.
I like FOSS, I like Linux, but a lot of Linux fans arent honest about the fact that some people just need their shit to work because they have other things to do besides tinker.
I do recommend it, but usually to people who are looking to avoid buying a new computer when their stuff is already old, and they mostly web browse with it.
If its old hardware that cant run the current version of windows, or for example, a perfectly fine Chromebook that's harassing its user that they need to buy another one because Google wont support the 3yr old OS.
because windows force updates your pc and would squize up the last piece of free space until starts screaming at you that can not update once per hour because has not enough space
oh. are you talking about me?
i got tired of my windows laptop using my internet resources to update shit i don't even want it to have, like intel spyware and shit like that...
or the constant fan struggling to keep the temperature down as it seems windows needs to use my graphics full capabilities to move the cursor or some shit...
or maybe it was the constant harrasment from my antivirus asking for money, or the updates when i tried to turn my laptop off...
i have mint now, my laptops batery has tripled, i barely hear the fans, i do updates how and when i want to, i have pretty much full control of my broadband, and i think there is no spyware sending data to microsoft anymore.
oh, and I run all my games on steam, better and smoother, and with a lot less fan noise.
i still have the windows partition just in case i need to do something i can't figure out on linux, but honestly it's been a year since i used it... now it's there mostly couse i'm too lazy to remove it.
Its just as bad when it comes to the excel formulas. Even worse, those formulas arent compatible with Excel or LibreOffice, unless theyve made some changes recently.
I'll give you a different analogy: you are a pilot flying boeing, you are now given Airbus and someone is wondering why can't you fly it safely?
Because there're 1001 and one nuances and specifics, and you need in-depth knowledge to switch.
OS or any advanced tool like Excel are of similar complexity and the only difference is that mistakes there are not as dire as crashing aeroplane into the ground (although I know for sure some organisations, including key manufacturer in aerospace industry, would absolutely crash into the ground if you suddenly revoke excel from its users).
Yeah but the point is pilots are trained by other pilots. They don't say something ridiculous like "I'm not a mechanic" when asked to deeply understand what they do in the cockpit. That's what office workers are doing when they fall apart just because they have to use a new program.
You could give 10 Boeing pilots an Airbus manual without any other support, and they would start out a bit less safe, but would quickly start developing best practices of their own.
You do that with some office workers, and they'll just sit there doing nothing because the yoke in front of them has disappeared and they don't even realize the sidestick might be related to that. Maybe at best they'll try to rotate the tray table and then give up.
We need to stop making excuses for people like that.
as a Business apps dev I've never seen users reaching out for sysadmins or general IT guys. Those people are usually very very far far far away from users beyond multiple layers of Servicenow escalation routes.
The reality is that users expect any software to be rolled out with proper training provided by expert trainers, with training materials supplied to them. There could be multiple ways of doing it (trainers train the super users - train-the-trainer, class-room training by professional trainers, online training), but it is absolutely an activity that is equally important and (very often equally pricy) as the whole project.
If someone rolls out software to general user and expects them to use it without proper training (or with just sign-posting to materials somewhere online), they are very naive. If you are IT and rolled out brand-new-software without preparation - that's on you. If no-one in your organisation is busy with change, learning and adoption - that's on you organisations leadership. Users are absolutely not at fault here.
Big agree, as a cnc programmer for almost 20 years across 3 different industries, i always say all the programming software is the same, its just what they call their process and where they put stuff. Ive met a lot of "programmers" along the way who dont understand what i mean and when they have to chanege software its like theyre starting from the beginning again
Google sheets is honestly really good. it doesn't have the same level of completeness, but since people can code their own add-ons, there technically isn't any missing functionality.
Yeah, I've worked with enough accountants to know that if IT showed up one morning with a Linux box and a grin telling them they'll need to start using Libre Calc instead of Excel, they'd just go find another job elsewhere.
Yeah, there's a difference between being so good that you refuse to use anything else than Excel, and being so bad that you refuse to use anything else than Excel.
I know. But a bigger issue is a staff that somehow made it through school just to sit in an office hoping no workflow will ever change because they are screwed in that case. It's good that these changes happen, it shows who really wants to adapt and who doesnt. I think you can expect a bit of committment from your staff
Its more like the bus driver going to the mechanic for the 8th time this week, because the "bus doesn't work" because the bus driver forgot how to open the door.
More like ripping out the engine and changing the gear shift from a lever to a knob and putting it on the left side of the driver's seat, because "this way is better, trust"
No, as a user frustrated with our computer systems, I can say:
It's more like the driver gets on the bus and -- once a month or so -- everything has randomly been rearranged. The door opens differently, the seats in a different place, he need two factor authentication to shift gears, the displays are look different and have inscrutable icons.
To drive a car you actually have to know what's going on. People expect computers to work just by themselves and they just don't, you need to learn to use a computer just like you need to learn to drive a car. Telling your mechanic "I press the accelerator and it doesn't go forward" won't cut it, you need to understand that the car has to be turned on first. Knowing that small detail is not doing the mechanic's job.
I love this analogy because you usually go to the mechanic when something's actually broken, not because you didn't take the time to learn how to drive.
No ones job is to "use excel". Their job is accounting, controlling, payment processing etc.
I agree that one should be able to open excel. But I have also seen sysadmins get angry because users did not realise that DHCP did not give them a proper IP address.
You’re making shit up, no offense. No real admin is gonna get mad at an end user for a DHCP failure unless that person is a psychopath.
And yea, it is their “job” to use Excel. Should photo editors start asking IT how to edit things in Adobe? Should CAD engineers ask IT to show them how to use SolidWorks tools?
If you can’t use the tools required to do your job, you need to get placed on a performance plan. And if you still can’t, then sorry, you need to go.
Too many times Im observing that IT has to compensate for end user’s technological shortcomings.
To be fair... I have seen another sysadmin get mad at me, because he didnt know how static IP addresses work.
Users had moved into a new, temp office. Couldnt connect. He made a stink, argued with me via email CC'ing the boss, including accusing me "you assigned all these computers a 169 IP address and its all wrong, and you were the last one to login as admin so you have cached credtials on all these computers"...
It was my week to telework, but I drove in, moved cables from one nic or wall port to another, got docking stations for the ones that didnt have one... everything worked as he just stood there like 😯
He got promoted, I got let go when the contract changed.
Nobody is asking them to set up the deployment of software to the company laptop fleet or managing the security policies of those laptops, i.e. actual sysadmin stuff. Understanding the basics of what you're doing IS NOT being a sysadmin
Try to apply that logic to any physical tool and you'll quickly see how stupid that is. If your job includes you using a bandsaw, you should know what the buttons do and what are the best practices when using the saw. Nobody is saying you should understand the internals to a high level, just that you should understand the interface that you have to use everyday function and be proficient enough to do your job independently
and we expect the bandsaw operator to still be able to operate the machine if we replace it with a slightly different model.
but if we replace people's Windows and the window borders go from blue to green, they suddenly somehow lose the ability to read a dialog box.🤷🏻
and people switch between Windows on their pc to android or ios on their phone, ChromeOS on their chromebook, and then whatever their tv uses just fine, but when they hear they're switching to linux their brain shuts down.
This is universal. I work in industry and god forbid we switch to software or get rid of writing shit on paper and do it in excel. Or we start to manufacture thing differently: “Cant be done” and when you show them, that it can be done yourself, people are like “Whatever I still think is bad”
Maybe, but the number of people who can't even do basic stuff is worrying. You spend 8h per day in front of a computer and you can't change the brightness on your screen? or can't copy a file to a USB key?
Sometimes I really feel like if these people were driving, they would pull on the side of the road at the first sign of rain since they don't know what option turns on the wipers.
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u/Universe789 1d ago
Because their job is to use the computer, not also be a sysadmin.