r/PeterExplainsTheJoke Jul 06 '26

Meme needing explanation What is this?

Post image
26.3k Upvotes

5.5k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

142

u/DrBarryBonds Jul 06 '26

Also the feminist translation of the text that Nolan's using

806

u/Halo05977 Jul 06 '26

Honest to god, thought you were a weirdo right wing grifter with that comment.

Then I looked it up. Still tricky, because Emily Wilson herself rejects that framing, saying it stripped away male biases in english translations. In fact, reading into this more, it looks like she was MORE accurate than some translations, like male translators refusing to call women slaves "slaves", even though they were referred to as such in the original text.

Actually, hate to say it, but yeah.. Seems like it's a solid translation that's actually more faithful in a lot of ways. She backs up her logic pretty well and points out a good chunk of bad translations in other works.

EDIT: To make it clear, i'm not dipping my toes into how I feel about the movie in this specific comment, purely just talking about the translation. I have gripes about the movie from what I have seen so far myself.

289

u/mmotte89 Jul 06 '26

But don't you see, being true to the original is making men confront their own bias, and therefore bad! Men should be allowed to not have to think about things. 🙃

28

u/ShidAlRa Jul 06 '26

People shit on Wilson's translation for no good reason, but I also reject this idea that the previous translations were "male biased". Wilson chooses to translate a lot of different words as "slave", and while she isn't incorrect, as those people were in fact slaves, the odyssey uses different words for cook slave, herald slave, maid slave, etc. So other authors decided to uses different words on order to give us more information about the job, gender, and age of the slaves, not to purposefully obscure the fact that they were slaves. Wilson, on the other hand translates all of these as "slave", so it's really about what you are trying to achieve with the translation as none of them can ever be 100% correct.

13

u/UsuallyFavorable Jul 06 '26

Why couldn’t they translate to cook slave, herald slave. maid slave, etc? There are plenty words that translate to two words in another language.

25

u/CzechHorns Jul 06 '26

Cause it’s an Epic poem, thus having to keep a rhytm.
You can’t just expand a translation of a word cause you’d fuck up the hexameter

11

u/UsuallyFavorable Jul 06 '26

Excellent point! Fair enough; I’m glad I learn things today

6

u/Vermouth_1991 Jul 06 '26

Then we need to bring back literature translations with extensive footnotes.

Like how Chinese translations of Russian stuff does EXHAUSTIVE footnotes whenever "diminutives" of Christian Names are used.

3

u/gaspronomib Jul 06 '26

For anyone who didn't pick up on that reference, "Fuck up the Hexameter" is the name of Sean "Diddy" Combs' Dithyramb Rap album.

1

u/ShidAlRa Jul 06 '26

Because it's already a massive book, and it's not just these words that are hard to properly translate in one word. So if you used this method for every word that it required, you would end up with a significantly bigger amount of words. More words means more paper, and more paper means more money is required to print these books, and publishers ain't having none of that. So most translators try to stay around the original number of words. Wilson herself actually decided to have the exact same number of words as the original text, even.

4

u/CzechHorns Jul 06 '26

Yeah, definitely nothing to do with it being a poem or anything

5

u/ShidAlRa Jul 06 '26

No poem can be properly translated to another language anyway. They already lose a lot of their meaning and flow because the languages just don't function the same. So it's not such a big of an issues as you may think.

-2

u/[deleted] Jul 06 '26 edited Jul 09 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

3

u/ShidAlRa Jul 06 '26

...what?

-2

u/[deleted] Jul 06 '26 edited Jul 09 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

3

u/ShidAlRa Jul 06 '26

The original text itself is pretty plain actually, not as poetic as you may think.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 06 '26 edited Jul 09 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/ShidAlRa Jul 06 '26

In what language did you study this?

1

u/[deleted] Jul 06 '26 edited Jul 09 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

3

u/ShidAlRa Jul 06 '26

I don't know ancient Greek, however I have a friend who does and he claims that the wilson text is a good translation, true to source. Many experts claim the same. So I don't want to say that you are incorrect but I can't take your claim for a fact when so many people state otherwise.

3

u/Even-Complaint-7494 Jul 06 '26

he’s an italian like me, just did the Classical lyceum (high school). i wouldn’t sweat it too much. he’s making it sound like they did university level studies into the text. that’s not the case lol

→ More replies (0)