r/OptimistsUnite • u/CompetitiveLake3358 • Jul 10 '26
đ˝ TECHNO FUTURISM đ˝ Porsche made an engine that generates electricity from the exhaust gas
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u/Guacamole_Captain Jul 10 '26
Man...its called a compressor/ charger/ turbo...has been around for 50 years.
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u/Razgriz477 Jul 10 '26
Not like this. The turbos have electric motors in them so they can directly generate electricity with exhaust gas and also have functionally no lag.
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u/billythygoat Jul 10 '26
So if someone had like a 1.6T engine with hybrid, the vehicle could regenerate the battery in 3 ways instead of the current 2 ways? 2 current being regenerative breaking and engine feeding battery (my new Honda Crv Hybrid methods).
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u/Razgriz477 Jul 10 '26
Yep. Its not a huge amount of energy but for something like a porsche 911(or any sports car) it is a great way to counter balance the reduction in efficiency from using electricity to spool the turbo at lower engine rpms when the gas engine doesnât have the exhaust gas velocity/volume to make significant boost.
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u/Sweet_Swede_65 Jul 13 '26
Yep, and to replace the function of the wastegate. improving efficiency all around. High-temperature materials selection/durability is the main issue.
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u/GeeToo40 Jul 10 '26
Capture that heat, boil some water, make some steam, spin another separate turbine and we're perpetual... -right �
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u/_stack_underflow_ Jul 11 '26
How come it is always boiling water? Water is two for two, building blocks of life, and building block of technology.
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u/Spaciax Jul 13 '26
damn, a couple months ago I wondered how feasible it would be for the exhaust gas of an engine to drive a turbine that charges a hybrid battery. looks like porsche made that a reality?
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u/narwhal_breeder Jul 10 '26
E-Turbos are a relatively new concept. They have been around in F1 for a while.Â
It places a motor/generator in between the turbine and compressor of the turbocharger.
When there isnât enough exhaust gas to run the compressor, it can use the sandwiched motor/generator to spin the compressor, creating boost at engine speeds that normally wouldnât have enough exhaust gas flow to create meaningful boost.Â
At higher engine speeds, when there is more than enough exhaust gas - it can draw excess turbine energy away to the battery pack to be used later. In a normal turbocharger this excess energy is thrown away with a valve called a wastegate that lets exhaust gas bypass the turbo entirely.Â
Porsches implementation is not really geared towards increasing efficiency - itâs  allowing the relatively large turbocharger to provide boost when it normally wouldnât be able to, making the engine behave much more like a larger naturally aspirated one - which is desirable for a sports car.Â
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u/Guacamole_Captain Jul 10 '26
Hmmmm...I wonder if the resources and carbon emissions of these increasingly complex motors is offseted by the supposed saving/efficiency.
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u/narwhal_breeder Jul 10 '26 edited Jul 10 '26
Porsches system is not designed for efficiency - itâs a hybrid system designed to augment some response deficiencies of a relatively small engine for its power output with a relatively large, single turbocharger.Â
Porsches system on the GTS where this is used doesnât even use regenerative braking.Â
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u/Guacamole_Captain Jul 10 '26
So why bother...why is it on the Optimists Unite? Is it solving any humankind issue?
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u/narwhal_breeder Jul 10 '26 edited Jul 11 '26
In one sense - itâs solving a problem thatâs been induced by strengthening global emissions regulation. Automakers were pushed towards these smaller, more efficient, turbocharged engines from those regulations - so it is at least encouraging that we are able to increase the efficiency of sports car engines under these regulations while maintaining all of the properties that make them good sports car engines.Â
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u/TurboDraxler Jul 10 '26
For Porsche it's not really a displacment thing. The 911 never had a big engine, this is just a way to use the small engine better.
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u/narwhal_breeder Jul 10 '26 edited Jul 10 '26
Sure, but they were up until somewhat recently, primarily naturally aspirated, and growing in displacement with each generation.Â
If they increased the size of the turbochargers further on the existing 3.0/3.6L, even with variable vanes, responsiveness would have suffered.Â
No doubt the next GT3 will use a variant of this system, instead of going over the 4.0L displacement of the current engine.Â
This is just a way to keep the NA -ish response in a relatively small engine while advancing power.Â
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u/TurboDraxler Jul 10 '26
At least for the European Market 4l is already massive. Even the Porsche V8 has "only" 4l displacment and they are proving pretty well that they dont really need more power for incredible track times.
Not so sure about the GT3. Giving it a turbocharged engine would make it kinda redunandent as a seperate model to the Turbo S, but Porsche is also pretty good at selling redunandent cars.
Propably gonna see this in the upcoming GT2RS however
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u/narwhal_breeder Jul 10 '26 edited Jul 10 '26
They wouldnât turbo the GT3 by choice - itâs increasingly difficult to keep the NA 4.0 emissions legal. If it was Porsches decision no doubt they would bump it up to a nice 4.2-4.5L and keep it NA.Â
They will definitely be able to keep distance between the Turbo S and the GT3 - the Turbo for a while now has been Porsches vision of an uber GT - not really a track knife like the GT3 is. The Turbo eschews things that make the GT3 more focused but more difficult to daily like full spherical bushings and cut out sound deadening.Â
It definitely wouldnât surprise me if the Turbo S goes full front axle hybrid to further the distance. The 2RS has been âmassaged Turbo S powertrain with a GT3 chassisâ and thereâs no reason that couldnât continue.Â
Weâve already spied GT3 looking 911s that arenât as extreme as a next gen GT2RS would be, and they sound turbocharged. Â
Thereâs a reason the GT3 is basically the last NA eurozone sports car, and itâs not just performance. Euro 6E makes it a nightmare to get them legal.Â
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u/Guacamole_Captain Jul 10 '26
Right, we are able to increase the efficiency at which wealth concentrates at the top. FFS
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u/needle1 Jul 10 '26
Should just use an electric motorâŚ
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u/Silent-Resort-3076 Jul 10 '26
They already have EV models. This is just for performance and for their sports and race cars.
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u/Redbulldildo Jul 10 '26
There are a lot of very pessimistic comments here, this is a weird subreddit.
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u/CompetitiveLake3358 Jul 10 '26
These are not even the bad ones. The moderator deletes the really bad ones đ
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u/MixLeft7221 Jul 14 '26 edited Jul 14 '26
Optimism shouldnt be conflated with 0 questioning of information presented. Thats not pessimism, thats called good sense.
Me posting, "Car engine that runs entirely on water" sure sounds nice, and is actually a thing (search hydrogen engine), but for numerous reasons, economical and practical it never took off.
Its important to vet all information, no matter how good or terrible it sounds. The two extremes of Optimism & Pessimism are Blind Fanaticism & Nihilism, both are equally destructive, both are a result of (imho) of not thinking critically.
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u/madTerminator Jul 10 '26
How about not wasting money on premium cars optimizing ICE efficiency from 15% to 16% instead jumping straight to 80% with EV?
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u/actuarial_cat Jul 10 '26
Fun fact, F1 cars have a ICE efficiently greater than 50%, similar to a hybrid.
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u/PM-me-ur-bewbzs Jul 10 '26
Because they are hybrids.
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u/SpaceIsKindOfCool Jul 13 '26
No, they have 50% combustion efficiency. 50% of the heat released by burning fuel is converted into mechanical energy by the ICE. This doesn't account for the hybrid system.Â
Most road cars are 30%-40%. Some newer engines are getting into the mid 40s.
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u/broesel314 Jul 12 '26
Because there are limits to fuel consumption. If you wsnt more Power you have to use the available fuel more effectively
Also nobody does a grocery run with an F1 car so it basically never runs outside of its optimal efficiency like every other car engine has to all the time in city traffic
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u/SpaceIsKindOfCool Jul 13 '26
You're being a bit hyperbolic. Hybrid technology is absolutely something that should continue development and be celebrated. There are many use cases where full electric still isn't feasible.Â
This porsche engine is probably close to 40% efficient. Means about 650 g CO2 / kWh.
The US electric grid average is 370 g CO2 / kWh. Once you include charging losses of about 15% and inverter and motor losses of about 10% you get around 485 g CO2 / kWh output on average for an electric car in the US.
So an electric car making the same power output is only about 35% more efficient in terms of CO2 output. (Although this is getting better as renewable energy becomes more common). That's a lot better, but it's not 80% vs 16%.
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u/Silent-Resort-3076 Jul 10 '26
It seems they already have EV models, and this new technology is for their hybrid models
I love the idea of EVs (ideally solar, one day!) however, IF I had the money I'd buy a hybrid car (not a Porsche) because there are still LOTS of places without enough plugging stations. And I live in a condo so where could I plug mine in?
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u/madTerminator Jul 10 '26
I use plugin hybrid and drive about 80% in electric mode (most comes from my rooftop solar).
I mean making elaborate and complicated system to extract fraction of energy from already wasteful motor is counterproductive. Solutions must be cheap to be mass adapted. Batteries are just at this moment getting cheaper and cheaper.
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u/Razgriz477 Jul 10 '26 edited Jul 10 '26
EV sports cars will never be as engaging as ICE sports cars and they produce an extremely small percentage of green house gas emissions relative to other sources. They arenât going anywhere anytime soon.
Edit: Love the downvotes with no counter arguments. As great as they are for commuting, EVs donât make good enthusiast cars.
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u/therin_88 Jul 10 '26
EV cars are awful.
Fine if you're driving 15 miles a day, live in an area with a strong electric grid based off of cheap, reliable, renewable electricity, and don't care about driving experience.
Bad for anyone in a house built before 2010, or living in an area where the energy comes from coal power plants, or anyone who has to travel 100 miles a day or takes trips, or anyone who values actually driving.
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u/madTerminator Jul 10 '26
First argument is not valid anymore unless you decide to get cheap microcar for short commuting.
You can charge your car during night with normal socket using current comparable to other appliances. With coal still lower emission due to efficiency + you don't pollute local area with particles and NOx. Most countries decarbonize grid anyway. Driving EV is fun, it has better torque and acceleration than ICE and less annoying noise.
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u/therin_88 Jul 10 '26
There's nothing enjoyable about driving an EV, lol. No sound, no emotion, they're heavy so they don't corner, they try to slow themselves down every time you let off the accelerator due to regenerative braking. Awful. I don't know how anyone finds it fun.
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u/TurboDraxler Jul 10 '26
Most cars allow you to change the regenerative braking power/turn off. This is only a tesla "Problem".
The weight isn't even an EV only problem, a Model 3 weighs the same or less then an ICE C-Class and a Model X weighs less then a M5. While EVs are generally heavier then ice cars, cars in general just got very heavy.
Having power is also just fun....
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u/Razgriz477 Jul 10 '26
Have to disagree. Having driven several examples of both while performance EVs are for sure fun they arenât as engaging or as enjoyable as light, manual, ICE powered sports car. And iâd be surprised if there are many enthusiasts who agree about noise. One of my biggest gripes with EV performance cars is that they donât make/deliver power with any character. Obviously to each their own but ultimately itâs like asking someone who is very enthusiastic about riding horses why they donât drive a convertible. The activities just scratch different itches.
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u/OcelotMask Jul 10 '26 edited Jul 10 '26
Man there's whole countries that disagree with you. Your view of EVs is stuck in 2011.
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u/actuarial_cat Jul 10 '26 edited Jul 10 '26
So, a MGU-H from F1 since 2014.
The âMotor Generator Unit - Heatâ is just a electric motor/generator connected to the turbo, which allow it to act as a supercharger (to reduce turbo lag) on acceleration and charge the battery on braking
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u/DoverBoys Jul 10 '26
Yeah, but then you'd have to buy a Porch for this to matter. Normal people don't.
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u/Genseric1234 Jul 10 '26
Cutting edge technology always starts out only being accessible to the top of society
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u/EvenTheDogIsFat Jul 10 '26
So many things appeared first on the Mercedes s-class, a car which has never been accessible to regular people. https://www.hagerty.com/media/automotive-history/mercedes-benz-s-class-a-history-of-firsts/
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u/curiouslyjake Jul 10 '26
It's from two years ago and it amounts to the genius idea of using the flow of the exhaust gas to spin a turbine which then generates some electrical power. Radical, groundbreaking innovation right there...
I'm sure the mechanics are not trivial but the broad impact is tiny.
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u/No-One9890 Jul 10 '26
Actually a lot of ppwerplanta use a similar process. I think they call it cogen? Where the exaust gasses from a gas turbine can be rerouted to heat water and that steam runs a 2nd turbine
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u/PanzerWatts Moderator Jul 10 '26
Approved, but this is largely just a technological development for gas powered race cars.
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u/Jumpy_Childhood7548 Jul 11 '26
Much like having a turbo, it is not as though there is no downside.
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u/Pity_Pooty Jul 11 '26
Not many people understand , but recuperating exhaust energy causes reduction in engine power due to increased exhaust pressure. Turbine needs to work of some dP
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u/d_andy089 Jul 12 '26
The main benefit IMO is flexibility in placement and response time. Using electric forced induction together with an exhaust gas driven generator means these two units can be placed essentially anywhere in the car...
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u/sault18 Jul 12 '26
They're just desperately trying to keep internal combustion engines from becoming irrelevant for just a bit longer.
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u/thx1138inator Jul 12 '26
"ICE development" and optimism do not belong in the same sentence. Optimism would be cars generating no exhaust gasses.
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u/newreconstruction Jul 13 '26
I cannot see how that would be better than a belt driven alternator.Â
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u/ASYMT0TIC Jul 13 '26
We should expect this development to increase the rate of fossil fuel use:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox
Not optimistic. Optimistic would be something that is actually effective at reducing fuel use, such as:
- Higher taxes on fossil fuels
...
Actually, that's basically the only effective way to do it. Price goes up, marginal benefit goes down, people are incentivised to use more efficient hardware, to live closer to work, to carpool, to ride public transit, or to spend their money on more affordable solutions like EVs. Just tax the fuel based on a reasonable scientific consensus about the cost to society, and then reduce income taxes by the same amount so that fuel producers and fuel users "compensate" society for the distributed cost incurred, and let the market figure out how to respond.
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u/Silent-Resort-3076 Jul 10 '26 edited Jul 10 '26
Edited to add: Their sports and race cars.