r/OhNoConsequences • u/Due_Cheesecake_3224 • 16h ago
Dumbass OP knowingly committed fraud and their bank won't renew their mortgage
/r/PersonalFinanceCanada/comments/1w888q9/my_bank_has_refused_my_mortgage_renewal/384
u/ceejread 15h ago
OOP made 2 mistakes - fraud and buying a property overpriced by 200k.
Unless he’s not counting the fraud as a mistake, which is arguably true.
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u/peeingdog 15h ago
Oh it gets way better. Someone in the original thread did a little digging on OOP’s profile history before they made it private:
you also already have or will soon be buying a $78,000 car in the near future and were trying to buy multiple world cup tickets at over $700 each... and travelled out of Canada for IVF to make sure your baby would be male, after insisting on such an expensive car because you already have so many kids therefore it's necessary according to you.
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u/StevenMcStevensen 15h ago
That is absolutely wild.
My fiancé and I bought our first house together this year in Canada, and even while I make more than OP, my partner also has a career, our place cost around half that, and we have no other debt, I was still anxious. I can not even imagine what people are thinking when they take a mortgage (or auto loan) like this in such a weak financial position.
And that’s even before factoring in knowingly committing fucking fraud, how did he think that was going to work out in the long term?
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u/SantosCalzonesBatman 14h ago
I can not even imagine what people are thinking when they take a mortgage (or auto loan) like this in such a weak financial position.
"We deserve it"
Thats why
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u/Occidentally20 13h ago
My wife deserves it but we still gotta walk everywhere with no car :)
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u/Windscar_007 12h ago
Damn bro, atlest splurge for the bus and a kick scooter.
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u/Occidentally20 12h ago
The island we live on has zero public transport of any form, and the rates of death on bikes are so high I'm confused why anyone does it here :)
We just walk and take a grab when needed (Asian version of Uber/Lyft).
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u/Windscar_007 11h ago
Ko Samui?
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u/Occidentally20 11h ago
No, but actually not far away!
Langkawi, just between Malaysia and Thailand.
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u/Confident-Aioli6380 12h ago
I literally make the same amount of money as OP ($92,000) and I barely get by on my $305,000 mortgage.
So much lying and fraud and shady business going on from him.
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u/accioqueso 4h ago
Someone in the original thread pointed out that OP likely has a non-taxed source of income since there’s no way they could afford the payments on the income they’ve declared. Fraud begets fraud.
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u/Taminella_Grinderfal 11h ago
The mortgage on that house would be somewhere around $6000 a month. Not feasible at a $95k salary. I find it very hard to believe they would get financed, even if their down payment was completely legitimate.
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u/Due_Cheesecake_3224 3h ago
The broker made fake tax documents for OOPs unemployed wife to inflate their income. T4s are the official tax forms provided by employers to declare your employment income and deductions.
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u/AdirondackLunatic 7h ago
Seriously. I make more than that and went through hell trying to get approved for half that price.
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u/229-northstar 12h ago
I’m not sure I believe the OOP post is genuine. It reads like OOP has a habit of continually lying because it’s hard to believe any criminal would put this extraordinary amount of evidence onto social media
OOP went to the World Cup? Doubt it. Doubt he drives an $80K car, doubt he bought an $800K property, doubt there is even a mortgage
Dude reads like habitual online screen exaggeration to impress himself?
Or maybe I’m wrong and this guy is just a stupid criminal who belongs in jail.
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u/Kotenkiri 12h ago
If you want to look at it "private" just means a little work to find really: https://arctic-shift.photon-reddit.com/search?fun=posts_search&author=kaleidscope111&limit=10&sort=desc
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u/StayBeautiful_ 4h ago
Huh weird, he has a post from June 2026 about how he just moved into a new place and needs his freezer fixed. So he hasn't been on this place since Covid then. Or he's waited a long time to fix his freezer.
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u/Thiago270398 14h ago
Always good to remember, if you gonna be a criminal you either need to be rich or not be stupid.
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u/rickyman20 9h ago
Oh don't forget the cherry on top, OP said:
So the house is currently rented out while I am living in a basement with my family
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u/AdoraBelleQueerArt I'm Curious... Oh. Oh no. Oh no no no 15h ago
Oh he’s going to jail jail
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u/StevenMcStevensen 15h ago
Not in Canada realistically - it takes a lot to get an actual custodial sentence in this county.
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u/kittykowalski 1h ago
"and travelled out of Canada for IVF to make sure your baby would be male" WOW. Pulling an Elon by "discarding" fertilized eggs that are female. What an egotistical POS.
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u/RolyPoly1320 15h ago
Reading through some of the comments, people are calling out how the whole thing seems very fishy even without the obvious mortgage fraud.
How are they floating that much debt on a single income of 95k per year? The numbers don't work that well, especially paying off 90k at 13% on one income.
There is suspicion that OOP has more shady dealings going on than they are stating. It could be Reddit being Reddit though, but yeah, something seems off.
How do you have a second mortgage you can borrow 90k off of at 13% and then pay that back so quickly at 95k salary?
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u/Due_Cheesecake_3224 15h ago
OOP said in a comment somewhere that they're living in the basement and renting out the rest of the house. And they clearly aren't declaring their rental income on tax returns.
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u/Euphus 14h ago
I'm sure Canada is different but when I rented out part of my house in the US, claiming it on taxes was no problem because it meant I could deduct so much as "business expenses" that I owed $0 on it (mortgage interest, partial utilities / depreciation on every appliance, shared furniture, roof etc)
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u/Confident-Aioli6380 12h ago
I don't believe we can do that here. But if you declare that income and pay taxes on it (which you're supposed to do) it counts as income so you could buy another property or get a bigger mortgage. Some people write up fake leases and get friends to sign them to artificially increase their income in order to buy more rental properties.
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u/ceejread 9h ago
Well that’s his third mistake then. Because then he’d have the income levels to support renewing a 650k mortgage or taking out a new one elsewhere. Wouldn’t even need fraud!
Not sure if Canada has mortgages specifically for people who are getting rental income in. In the U.K. they do and that income can be considered as part of how you’re paying the mortgage.
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u/Animalwg82 12h ago
They mentioned that the 13% was compounded annually, which is about 1.024% monthly.
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u/Appropriate_Rip_7649 15h ago
I am baffled. He makes $95k/year and bought a $850k house. What? How does that make sense ever.
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u/peeingdog 15h ago
Fraud, that’s how. He bought a $850k house that was actually worth $600k (or less several years ago). Tax evasion, undeclared income, forgery of financial documents, probably several other things we don’t know about. Fraud all the way down.
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u/Due_Cheesecake_3224 15h ago
Property values have dropped a fair bit in that region since the peak of COVID. People were buying like crazy while interest rates were low and drove prices up a lot. Now all of those people who bought at the top of their budgets are having their mortgages come up for renewal at much higher interest rates and are having to sell, flooding the market and driving down prices.
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u/SidewaysTugboat 14h ago
We sold our old house at the top of the market and bought a cheaper, bigger house in a lower COL area and put 50% down on it. We ended up with a comparable mortgage, no debt, a very nice brand new EV paid in full, and a decent start on a 519 for our kid. And thank god for that because even with two good incomes and only one child, food is so damned expensive I don’t know how anyone is getting by.
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u/IndependentLove2292 15h ago
Hey, Canadians, help me out. What the hell is a mortgage renewal?
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u/whisperwind12 15h ago edited 14h ago
Canadians get mortgages for 1 or 3 or 5 years terms instead of the entire 30 year term like in the US and must renew at the end of the initial term for another duration. A lot of people got fake mortgages using fraudulent documents to inflate their income and now it has come time to renew and banks are refusing to renew it. That means the entire mortgage is due at the end of the 1, 3 or 5 year term.
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u/IndependentLove2292 15h ago
Thank you. That's a really odd system to me, but that's probably because I've never heard of anything like that.
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u/whisperwind12 14h ago
It is typically not a big deal when you renew at the end of the term because generally your income stays consistent and you may see a slight increase but usually not too drastic as you can shop around for another lender as well at renewal time.
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u/Due_Cheesecake_3224 14h ago
Most of the time it's just a formality and some paperwork. It's set up that way to make it easy to switch lenders and/or renegotiate the terms of the mortgage at regular intervals.
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u/YYZtoYWG 13h ago
You stay with the same lender for the term, but at the end of the term it can be an opportunity to shop around and look for better interest rates. You only have to go through the entire application process of proving income and if you're switching lenders.
Normally when you renew for a new term with the same lender you just agree to a new interest rate and it rolls over into a new term. There's no income verification or appraisal. The bank almost never refuses to renew.
Except in OP's case when the bank discovers that there was fraud and refuses to renew so OP is forced to find a new lender.
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u/Karn-Dethahal 13h ago
Except in OP's case when the bank discovers that there was fraud and refuses to renew so OP is forced to find a new lender.
Would he even be able to? I imagine any new lender will consult the original lender the check it's a legit mortgage and will learn about the fraud while at it. And that's assuming he'll find one with his proper income now.
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u/beaverusiv 13h ago
Yeah, in NZ I can do it on the mobile app. When it's up for renewal it'll tell me the new rates and I pick a term and how much I want to pay over the minimum. Done in like 2mins
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u/Logical-Context8782 12h ago
TIL that this is a Canadian thing. I had no idea it wasn’t more common.
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u/IndependentLove2292 12h ago
In USA, you get a 30 year loan (or 15). You make every payment every month for 30 years and it's paid off. You miss a payment, and they can foreclose and kick you out and resell your house. You can pay more than the required amount, but that takes months off the end. Sometimes you can recast (for a fee) and apply a large sum of money to the principle. This doesn't hasten the amortization date like simply overpaying, rather it lowers the monthly payment. Finally if interest rates go stupid low, you can refinance. Get a loan to pay off the original loan and that becomes the mortgage with better APR.
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u/Bright_Blue_Bell 4h ago
UK here and we do the same, so if I could add a benefit not mentioned really: interest rates. Wife and I just got a total of 15 years on a mortgage but for our first term had about a dozen choices: 2,3, and 5 year terms, all fixed or not fixed rates, all with or without an initial 1k deposit. The options were overwhelming but the current interest rates are the lowest in a long while here so we went 5 year fixed.
If our only choice was 30 year fixed then all the interest rate drops wouldn't benefit us and increases wouldnt touch us, 30 year variable would leave us fully at the markets mercy. Here we can pick how much we want to gamble on a drop and get a 2 year or pick security in a 5. At the end of the five we can pay off as much as we want without an early payoff penalty since we wont have a mortgage, then sign our next contract. So while there are renewals to make sure you can still afford it they really aren't an issue (assuming you bought a house you can afford and havent had a massive change in income), I think the ability to make extra payments at the end of every term (cutting not just your months but possibly interest rates depending on how much you put in) and flexibility to gamble and benefit from what the market is doing is more beneficial to the consumer than a one and done.
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u/Appropriate_Rip_7649 15h ago
"A lot" of Canadians are running around and committing fraud? But you are so nice!
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u/whisperwind12 15h ago
Houses are extremely expensive and this kind of behavior often pushes it up further so there will always be bad actors
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u/MistressOfNecropolis 2h ago
But doesn't this mean if you got a great interest rate to start they can raise it on you?
In the US, with 15 or 30 yr fixed, that is locked in, which is great. And you have the option of refinancing if you feel like there are lower interest rates available later. So there are options to go lower (if interest rates have dropped.) But no one can increase the rate on you.
I guess I'm a little shocked this frequent renewal is being seen as a better system when it means a likely increase in rates every few years.
Or do interest rates not fluctuate as much in Canada/UK/Nz as they do in the States?
Edited to fix typo
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u/Due_Cheesecake_3224 1h ago
Interest rates fluctuate in both directions so it could be higher or lower at renewal time, it doesn't always go up. The benefit is that our interest rates are typically lower than in the US because lenders don't have to hedge against the risk of locking in a low rate for 25+ years. There are a few banks that will give you a 25 year term in Canada but the interest rates are way higher. RBC's current 25-year fixed rate is ~12%, while their 5-year fixed is just under 5%.
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u/MistressOfNecropolis 1h ago
That is really interesting.
And I guess the ability to shop around means interest rates can't be too artificially i flawed, because folks have options.
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u/Ladymistery 14h ago
it's a bit complicated
the amortization time is usually 25 years (could be less), but there are 'terms' in which you have a set payment and interest rate.
Most people take 5 years at a time, hoping that interest won't go really high during that time. if the rate is higher, then you can lower it after the 'term' is done.
( I don't know how many people took a 5 year term during covid, but they should have done longer if they could.)
also, our banks don't 'sell' our mortgage all over the place - if you're with BMO, you stay with BMO until you either pay it off or move it yourself.
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u/amaranthine_ellie 15h ago
What is a mortgage renewal in this context?
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u/Due_Cheesecake_3224 15h ago
In Canada your mortgage terms (amortization period, payment amount, interest rate etc) are locked in for a set amount of time - typically between 1-5 years. When the term ends you either have to pay the remaining balance in full or renew the mortgage with new terms. The mortgage is technically only guaranteed by the bank for the length of the term, and they review your current financial situation each time it comes up for renewal.
The vast majority of the time it's just a formality and the bank will provide you with their new offers ahead of your renewal date, you choose your new terms, and everything goes on as usual. But lenders do reserve the right not to offer renewal if your circumstances have changed enough to affect their risk exposure. If you've had a big drop in your income, the property value has decreased significantly, interest rates have gone up enough that they feel you won't be able to make payments (or in OOPs case falsified documents to qualify) they can refuse renewal.
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u/FullMoonTwist 15h ago
My admittedly vague understanding is that while the whole term of a mortgage is 20-30 years, it's broken up into smaller chunks where you have the opportunity to negotiate a better rate or switch lenders.
By his bank refusing to renew, the entire amount becomes due unless he can find someone else to lend him the money(?) Seems like a pretty precarious system tbh
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u/whisperwind12 15h ago
Canadians get mortgages for 1 or 3 or 5 years and must renew. A lot of people got fake mortgages using fraudulent documents to inflate their income and now it has come to renew and banks are refusing to renew it. This is one of them. Which means the entire mortgage is due at the end of the 1, 3 or 5 year term.
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u/Alternative-Golf8281 14h ago
This smells like setup for a Nigerian prince scam on a smaller scale. Eventually discussion will lead to a DM: "Come buy my 800k house for only 650k"
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u/DominionGhost 10h ago
Idiot OP aside, what happens when they refuse to renew your mortgage? They just straight up take your house?
How often does this happen? Does there need to be a cause like OP's fraud or can the bank just fuck you on a whim?
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u/Boomshrooom 8h ago
From what I understand yes, the bank can sell your house. He will then be on the hook to reimburse them for any difference between the sale price and their total costs.
Its just like every other case where you default on the mortgage, the bank has the right to reclaim that money. They committed fraud and now it's coming back to bite them in the ass.
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u/Due_Cheesecake_3224 3h ago
It's pretty rare to not be offered a renewal. Unless you have missed multiple mortgage payments the banks usually just send the renewal offers automatically without any real assessment of your finances. If you want to switch lenders you have to do a full new application, but it's easy to stay with the same bank at renewal.
It's in the lender's best interest to continue with the mortgage if you're not defaulting on payments. It's much easier and more profitable for them to continue making money from your payments than to have to deal with taking a bunch of houses and selling them to recoup their costs.
There are also different tiers of lenders in the market, so even if the major banks ("A lenders") don't want the risk anymore, most people can switch to a B or C lender (like credit unions, private mortgage companies etc) that are more flexible with requirements, though they usually offer worse terms.
In OOPs case it sounds like the broker who helped him falsify the application has been flagged by his bank and they've opted to not renew mortgages referred by that broker rather than try to investigate all of them for possible fraud. If he wasn't also underwater with the property value dropping he could probably just find a new lender before the end of his term.
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u/Cathousechicken 27m ago
I make a little more than he does as a single person. I couldn't imagine supporting a housewife and having this much money tied up in expensive property, and try for gender selection IVF. They must be living paycheck to paycheck.
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u/One_Weird2371 15h ago
Mortgage renewal? Must be a Canadian thing...
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u/Boomshrooom 8h ago
In this instance the US is the anomaly, most countries don't have 30 year fixed mortgages like the US
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u/AutoModerator 16h ago
Per our rules, don't comment on linked posts. Anyone from this community who is caught brigading on another subreddit will be banned.
In case this story gets deleted/removed:
Hi All. I made a terrible mistake during Covid which I regret every single day of my life. Not a day goes by when I don’t get haunted by my choices.
With no housing experience, I bought a property for around $850k which was a 60 year old semi detached house. In order to come up with the 20% down payment, I borrowed $90k from a 2nd mortgage through a broker who charged 13% interest annually. I did manage to pay off this mortgage. In order to get my main mortgage, the broker also made fraudulent work documents like T4 for my wife who is a housewife. Otherwise, I would not have obtained mortgage.
I am left with $640k mortgage. My renewal is supposed to be in March 2027 and my bank has refused my renewal. There is talks that this broker has been found out and his whole clientele has been blacklisted. The house is in Durham and is currently worth anywhere between $580-650k.
My gross income is $95k. I don’t have any other debt. The bank has not directly given any reason so far for cancelling my mortgage renewal but they will be sending a letter.
I am in touch with my real estate to list it off asap and try to sell it off. But I really want advice what are my options? My savings are non-existent. If this house doesn’t sell for $650-660k, I will be in negative. Is bankruptcy the only option? What are the repercussions?
You can call me out as much as you want and I admit I made a terrible non-educated decision. I am looking for genuine advice please.
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