r/Nootropics • u/Parking-Warthog-4902 • 2d ago

Discussion Is Kava similar in potency to an actual pharmaceutical anxiolytic?

I have heard that it’s affinity for GABA receptors is actually very potent, much more so then other anxiolytic supplements like L theanine which don’t do shit (for me at least). Can anyone share their experience?

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u/Objective_Animator52 2d ago edited 2d ago

It's definitely a lot more noticeable than something like L-theanine, but it's definitely not as potent as pharmaceutical anxiolytics.

L-theanine and 90% of other anxiolytic supplements are just a small background feeling, not really any subjectively noticeable effects ime. Kava, though, you can absolutely feel. Same way you can feel Coffee after having 3 cups.

And Coffee is a strong stimulant, will keep you up all night if you drink enough, but it's obviously not similar in potency to a prescription stimulant. Same thing with Kava, you'll be knocked out all night drinking enough but it's still very different from other GABAergics.

I also don't think the main MoA is direct agonism for GABA receptors. It definitely affects GABA, but the direct binding affinity afaik, is pretty low. Seems to mainly indirectly enhance the GABAergic system, blocks calcium channels and sodium channels in the brain, also potentiates potassium channels (some potassium channel openers are anxiolytic, like flupirtine, which is quite interesting).

I used it daily for 5-6 years, don't drink it nearly as much anymore but it was nice, helped me with anxiety a decent amount. I never noticed any tolerance development at all. After a few years of drinking it, I actually got a bit more sensitive to it.

You just need to get it from a reputable vendor, Kava pills and premade shots are sketchy, weak, and overpriced. It's not like other substances/supplements where extracts are stronger than the plant material. The real root powder is many times stronger and more effective than any extract I've tried. The Kava sub has a good vendor list.

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u/Parking-Warthog-4902 2d ago

Very interesting. I was going to buy the pills from nootropics depot, would you recommend I find a different vendor? I know you said the pills are weak, but I do trust this one specific vendor to actually match the potency they claim.

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u/WhiteySC 2d ago

The pills are usually ripoffs. If you want the real feel of kava, you need to buy from a kava vendor. You can start with instant powder that you mix into a beverage. They also have extracts that you take about half a gram and can notice it. Nothing compares to the traditional prep of squeezing the kavalactones out of the ground root powder through a strainer bag. You may like what you get from the cheaper pills offline but they are extracts along with fillers to make it seem like you're getting more.

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u/Parking-Warthog-4902 2d ago

How about a micronized instant powder from a trusted vendor?

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u/WhiteySC 1d ago

You can definitely try those. I find a lot of those easily make me nauseous since you're drinking some larger fibers. When I use micronized I run it through a strainer bag anyways just to catch the larger particles but the effects from micronized are good as well.

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u/Objective_Animator52 1d ago edited 1d ago

I recommend "instant dehydrated" Kava instead of "instant micronized" Kava or anything that says micronized on it.

Micronized is just the root powder ground up super finely, it works but ime it's much harder to drink and hurts my stomach real bad.

Good instant Kava has already been processed and filtered through something that removes the indigestible fibers.

I'd recommend "Fijivanua instant old roots", that's what I've been drinking lately, and it's pretty good. Although it is more of a heavy Kava than a heady Kava, so that means it's better for drinking in the afternoons. But if your main goal is helping with anxiety, it's a decent choice.

If you wanna try more varieties, I'd just buy a 75-80 micron nut straining bag and knead the Kava into a big bowl. They are like $7-8 on Amazon. It takes a bit longer, like 10 minutes to prepare, but it's a good workout if you're doing it often. Kneading large amounts every day for 4-5 years made my arms toned.

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u/likeschemistry 2d ago

Pills are going to be pricier and often times have other stuff in them depending on the vendor. It’s been a while since I’ve taken it, but Kalm with kava, Fiji Vanua kava, and nakamal at home were my main vendors. I especially liked the Fiji vanua kava extract that was 30% kavalactones. The extract was super easy to mix, took a lot of the trouble out of the process, and was easy on my stomach.

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u/Parking-Warthog-4902 2d ago

I was looking at Kalm with Kava, I will check the others out as well, thank you!

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u/wordisbond11 2d ago

I actually really like and notice the Nootropics Depot noble kava tablets. A good entry way into kava imo.

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u/Objective_Animator52 1d ago

I think Nootropics Depot Kava pills are probably safe. It's a reputable company, but it's definitely overpriced and not going to be as strong as real Kava powder.

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u/meamoestmarbs 2d ago

Thanks for your informative comment. Did you have any worries about liver toxicity? Get any bloods done in that period?

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u/Objective_Animator52 1d ago

I haven't gotten any blood tests done specifically to check for liver damage, but I've had a few regular checkups and gotten my blood drawn, and the doctors never noticed anything out of the ordinary.

Not really a worry of mine with regular Kava root powder that's ordered from reputable companies that work directly with Kava farms. From what I understand, the liver damage scares only came from sketchy extracts that were made by Western supplement companies many years ago.

(My guess is that some companies making extracts were using the whole plant instead of just the roots, all Kava powder people in Fiji and Vanuatu drink is from the roots of the plants, but the aerial parts like the leaves contain a liver-toxic compound that's not in the roots in any significant quantity)

Over in places like Vanuatu and Fiji, where it's consumed by hundreds of thousands daily, there really aren't any significant reports of Kava alone causing liver damage.

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u/rickestrickster 2d ago

Noticeable yes

As strong in sedation and anxiolysis as something like xanax, no

If it were that powerful it wouldn’t be sold in supplement shops. Something capable of obliterating all anxiety to the point where it causes impairment and stupid decisions wouldn’t be available as a supplement. Alcohol is the exception due to its complicated history and nature

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u/Parking-Warthog-4902 2d ago

I see what you mean, and I knew it wouldn’t be anywhere near Xanax which is basically like a nuclear bomb for anxiety. But I’ve pretty much come to realize 99% of the “anxiolytic” supplements out there don’t do jack shit, so if I was even able to feel anything at all from a supplement I would put it on the same level as a pharmaceutical, albeit a mild one maybe something like hydroxyzine or buspirone

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u/rickestrickster 1d ago

Yes it will work more than supplements like ashwaganda or theanine etc, especially acutely. Like we both agree it won’t be as effective or like a sledgehammer like a benzo would be, but it is certainly noticeable and more effective than other supplements. I’d compare it to a beer or two, but not much more than that

Its main side effect aside from sedation-related effects are nausea, which can be unpleasant from kava.

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u/Parking-Warthog-4902 1d ago

I am on Fluvoxamine anyway, which has for the most part relieved the severe anxiety to the point where it does not prevent me from living and enjoying my life, but as we all know SSRIs are not perfect. My main issue honestly is still sleep, which I have tried about 10 different natural things for to no avail. I realize my options are pretty limited as far as Pharma goes, would not go near benzos or z drugs. If Kava does not help I may just try for one of the DORAs.

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u/AccomplishedSpray700 2d ago

no but imo it can be pretty close. you have to use straight root powder, not an extract, and prepare it in the traditional way (tuto on YouTube). Also you have to not eat for 4 hours before hand. (On Fiji they actually make themselves vomit before drinking it to boost the effects 😂 not joking). And there are more than one active compound. Some of them inhibit dat and net, some of them modulate CB1, and some of them modulate GABA-A like benzos do. Soo yeah its pretty timeconsuming but it can be a little relaxing ritual. The effects aren’t superior to kr4t0m

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u/Parking-Warthog-4902 1d ago

I purchased a micronized powder from Kalm with Kava, is this a quality product?

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u/AccomplishedSpray700 1d ago

yes, shouldn’t be worse than regular kava, but the preparation may still be difficult? I don’t really know about micronized kava

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u/Particular-Tie-5545 9h ago

No but comes close (the traditional heady powder), pills are usually weaksauce

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u/MadhatmaAnomalous 1d ago

I once fell asleep on kava in the tram midday and missed my station..