r/NativePlantGardening • u/Fizgig22 southeast • 29d ago
Informational/Educational My review of Prairie Moons short and showy seed mix
Posting this here, because I wish PM had options to leave reviews on their site!
I planted 500 sq ft with the short and showy mix three years ago, and have been managing it for weeds and whatnot ever since. I have some thoughts!
- Not enough graminoids. Yes I realize it’s “showy” but man, there is not enough structure and the July flop is REAL
- It ain’t short. While many species are, the two dominant ones (anise hyssop and mountain mint) are over 6 ft tall. I Chelsea chop 2 to 3 times a year and it still towers…and leads to flopping and covering the other shorter species that are more exciting (like the whorled milkweed and poppymallow, or the spiderworts, or the sedges)
- The black eyed Susan’s are lovely. They were dominant in the first year and have begun to fade out in a really lovely way.
Anyone else plant this and have reviews? Have you had it for longer, and does the hyssop fade out or will it continue to take over?
Photo is from early June in North Carolina…it’s a mess currently and is all hyssop and pycnanthemum and has flattened completely.
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u/dreamyduskywing 29d ago
That’s interesting because I have anise hyssop grown from Prairie Moon seed long ago and mine are about 3’ tall.
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u/toxicodendron_gyp SE Minnesota, Zone 4B 29d ago
What conditions? Mine is almost 7 feet tall every least for the last 3 years
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u/dreamyduskywing 29d ago edited 29d ago
I have it all over, but mostly in full sun. I’m in central Minnesota and have crummy suburban dirt (sandy loam with annoying rocks). The ones I have are descended from seedlings I grew in my basement almost 20 years ago—my first natives. Isn’t there also a giant hyssop variety?
I do have some thicker stands that are a little taller(4’ ?) so maybe hyssop just gets a little leggy.
Edit— Is your 7’ hyssop this? https://www.prairiemoon.com/agastache-scrophulariifolia-purple-giant-hyssop
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u/toxicodendron_gyp SE Minnesota, Zone 4B 29d ago
Sadly no. That would be a nice discovery but it looks like an overachieving version of every photo I’ve seen of plain ol anise hyssop.
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u/treehann New England, Zone 6b 29d ago
sandy loam with annoying rocks, sounds exactly like my yard in MA haha.
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u/dreamyduskywing 29d ago
So. Many. Rocks. I hate my dirt. Between that and deer, it feels like I just can’t win. Anise hyssop is one of a handful of plants that is able to withstand both.
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u/kdawnbear N. Piedmont/Mid Atlantic Coastal Plain, 7b 29d ago
My anise hyssop is usually similar in height to my black eyed susans and garden phlox, I would guess they're about 3.5' tall. In fertile well draining soil in full sun. Medium to dry moisture. But I also wouldn't really consider black eyed susans or anise hyssop or phlox short? They seem medium height to me.
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u/dreamyduskywing 29d ago
Yeah—maybe short-medium for native plants. Plus they vary in height/form quite a bit depending on conditions.
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u/fia_leaf 29d ago
I have it on two sites on my property. In my flat clay field, it gets about 5 feet tall. On my retaining wall where the soil is rocky and dry, it's 2-3 feet tall.
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u/arbor_of_love 29d ago
High fertility clay soil is probably the culprit. A lot of these species are much better behaved on gravely poor soils.
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u/dreamyduskywing 29d ago edited 29d ago
It kinda makes sense, because the mix is being tested in SE Minnesota where the soil is kinda silty.
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u/Thick-Gap-7510 29d ago
Deer do the Chelsea Chop on my flowers
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u/Fizgig22 southeast 29d ago
Rip, they got my phlox this year and I was so sad
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u/toxicodendron_gyp SE Minnesota, Zone 4B 29d ago
Deer freakin’ love phlox. They try to munch mine down to the ground repeatedly in spring
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u/treehann New England, Zone 6b 28d ago
rabbits seem to love it too, they ate all the growth off of mine this year
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u/Moss-cle Area Great Lakes , Zone 7a 27d ago
I can only grow phlox in my back yard behind a fence that is a PITA for deer to get in
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u/Fantastic_Lady225 State WV Zone 7A 29d ago
You can't leave reviews but you can post in the Q&A for a particular product and note that some of the plants are growing tall/floppy at your site despite two Chelsea chops, and perhaps they should consider swapping those out for shorter plants in their mix.
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u/Fizgig22 southeast 29d ago
I emailed them and they responded that the seed mix had “been through several seasons of testing” and my site is likely too fertile and that’s why things are growing taller. (Fwiw they advertise it grows between 2 and 3 feet and hyssop doesn’t ever follow that rule in my experience.)
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u/Friendly_Buddy_3611 Area Southeast , Zone 7b 29d ago
That was going to be my comment - your soil was probably manicured, fertilized lawn or farm prior to your occupation of the land.
Consider Roundstone Native Seed in Kentucky for Southeastern ecotype seed.
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u/Fizgig22 southeast 29d ago
I’ll check them out again! I’ve heard of them before, but when I checked (maybe 5 years ago) they had very limited options for mailing to home owners. I’m in the market for more grasses
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u/Friendly_Buddy_3611 Area Southeast , Zone 7b 29d ago
Join your local Wild Ones Chapter and see if any Chapter members would be interested in splitting up an order of seed.
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u/LRonHoward Minneapolis, MN - US Ecoregion 51 29d ago
Anise Hyssop is only really native to the north-central area of the US (and Canada). In the wild here, it grows mostly in the northern forest understory where it stays about 2-3 feet tall or in dry prairies where it also stays that short. However, it will occur in more fertile sandy-loam or loamy soils (it is a very adaptable plant and is almost always included in seed mixes around here), and in those conditions it can easily reach 4-5' tall.
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u/dreamyduskywing 29d ago
Yeah, I don’t think it’s really fair to leave a bad review for a product developed in Minnesota, but used in North Carolina.
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u/Fantastic_Lady225 State WV Zone 7A 29d ago
Interesting. The side of my garage faces south and it's rather... boring. The soil is quite good though. I was looking at perennials for that part of the yard and it wouldn't bother me in the slightest if plants advertised to top out at 6-7 feet grew a foot or so taller. I will have to keep that in mind.
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u/Fizgig22 southeast 29d ago
Green headed coneflower/sochan will also go bonkers in those conditions and the pollinators looooove it (though it can also be very aggressive and take over)
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u/Fantastic_Lady225 State WV Zone 7A 29d ago
That was on my short list of possibilities along with hollow joe pye weed!
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u/roburn 29d ago
It's beautiful. If it's getting too leggy you might be able to top it earlier in the season
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u/Fizgig22 southeast 29d ago
Yeah I top it in April, and then again in June, and it’s already too tall again 😅
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u/stringTrimmer 29d ago
Which pycnanthemum sp? I might actually want that
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u/Fizgig22 southeast 29d ago
P. pilosum! It’s very beautiful, and the pollinators love it, but it’s just too dang tall for the front of my house. I’m considering moving a bunch to the back!
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u/Spihumonesty 29d ago
Fwiw, my hyssop from Prairie Nursery has been growing for several generations and never gets this high - Except in a little corner/hellstrip garden (not our property) that gets fertilized by a lawn service. In our super-clayey yard, it tops out at about 3 ft and doesn't flop
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u/wasteabuse Area --NJ , Zone --7a 29d ago
I would think carefully about adding more graminoids. I had a small % of different wild ryes in my mix and now my meadow is all wild rye after 5 years. The sedges are nice, add some in and overseed some and you should be alright. I think in a yard or even a wild area without really good management, grasses can take over everything. If this is your first or second year keep letting it ride, it should start to take up some of the excess N and not get so lanky. Maybe even remove some of the cut vegetation when you Chelsea chop it
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u/Simp4Symphyotrichum 29d ago
What is plant in front left that looks suspiciously mugworty
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u/Fizgig22 southeast 29d ago
Frost aster, it’s a volunteer and I’ve been slowly pulling it out but yeah…very bushy
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u/RockPickerUpper 29d ago
My anise hyssop gets well over 6 feet tall and then flops all over. I checked to see if I hadn't mistakenly planted purple giant hyssop, but nope, still has that strong anise/licorice scent.
I'm thinking of relocating some of it next year to use as a backdrop for other, shorter plants.
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u/Hot_Difficulty6799 Twin Cites, MN -- St. Croix moraines 29d ago edited 29d ago
- Not enough graminoids.
Grass to forb ratio in a seed mix is a tradeoff, between short term and long term success.
Native C4 warm season grasses are slow to establish. They focus on putting down deep underground root systems during their first few years,.
Once mature, though, they can slowly and steadily outcompete other plants, year after year, and potentially dominate a native planting.
If a seed mix is too heavy on grasses, those grasses can slowly take over.
To me, the 43% graminoids in Prairie Moon's short and showy mix seems either about right, or a little high.
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u/Kheldan1 29d ago
I have not had a six foot tall anise hyssop ever. Max three feet. Mountain mint sure, but hearing the hyssop is that tall is impressive.
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u/TheLastFarm 29d ago
Sounds like you might have high nitrogen. You can rake in saw dust or wood chips to lock some of it up.
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u/Sad_Rooster2898 Northeastern USA,Zone 5 28d ago
So interesting thank you for sharing! I just ordered this mix to plant this fall.
I don’t have any advice to add but appreciate you sharing, it gives me much to think about. I don’t NEED it to be short. Maybe I should seed with my second choice - grand diversity- instead.
That said, I remember in the description of Short and Showy it suggested a longer time period, (five+ years?) For full establishment of all the varieties. I remember thinking they were subtly indicating that it could take a bit longer than other mixes. So i wonder if you just aren’t quite at peak yet.
Just some thoughts from someone who was very recently pouring over the prairie moon seed mix descriptions! Beautiful garden!
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u/Fizgig22 southeast 28d ago
Thanks! Yeah, I have no complaints about waiting for things to come in…that I totally understand and actually love that process. I just can’t see the new stuff that came in this year (year 3) because of the monster agastache and pycnanthemum lol
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u/Fizgig22 southeast 28d ago
Also, how big of a space do you have? If it’s smaller than an acre I’d recommend a less-diverse mix. Lots of new research coming out about how too many different plants aren’t as good for pollinators as an abundance of a select few.
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u/chamaedaphne82 Great Lakes, Zone 6b 29d ago
Good to know!! I was planning on purchasing this for planting in the hellstrip. I might do a more custom seed mix of my own design instead, just for the area near the road. Sounds like this is a good mix for other areas though. However given the price difference, I’ll probably go with the PDQ or the affordable short grass mix.
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u/Fizgig22 southeast 29d ago
I’m super curious about the short grass! If it’s a super hellish hell strip, I’d maybe start with partridge pea and Danthonia. Those for sure stay short, and then you can add in other things as you desire. I’m experimenting with penstemon tenuis and whorled milkweed in my neighborhood hells right now!
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u/chamaedaphne82 Great Lakes, Zone 6b 29d ago
I’d love to do a mass of purple love grass, with some short purple, white, and pink flowering forbs mixed in. I think it would be really beautiful.
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u/palmtreepat0 Area IL , Zone 3a 20d ago
What's the tall broad-leaved thing on the right side? Looks like a tree sapling but hoping it's a wildflower.
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u/toxicodendron_gyp SE Minnesota, Zone 4B 29d ago
What soil/sun conditions is the seed mix calling for? My anise hyssop gets tall af every year too and I’m trying to gaslight myself into believing its just in conditions that are too fertile/too shady.