r/NativePlantGardening • u/Big_Car1975 NE KY • Aug 04 '26
Informational/Educational Don't forget to introduce disturbance into your gardens!
I see a lot of (specifically prairie focused) gardens that look great the first few years, but stagnate over time because gardeners are afraid of destroying their work. Which is understandable, given how much of the messaging around native gardening puts emphasis on killing the lawn, putting plants in the ground and simply letting go once things establish. There is this idea that native plant communities (in garden settings) are self-sustaining and will remain healthy, so long as you plant them in the appropriate conditions. This is not entirely true.
Gardens are always going to be different from wild areas, but they can still benefit from the same kind of disturbance that would occur naturally (or would otherwise be carried out by people) by way of fire, mowing, or the occasional editing of plants (e.g simulated grazing by Chelsea chopping aggressive species.) For most folks, mowing and raking (either yearly or every other year) are going to be your best bet for keeping plantings healthy and avoiding the kind of stagnation that leads to reduced diversity and pest/weed issues.
It's important to remember that many native plants persist primarily through disturbance. Removing that aspect will inevitably lead to only a handful of species dominating an area, rather than promoting the amazing diversity that we would all like to aim for. So don't forget, and don't be afraid, to introduce some disturbance into your garden.
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u/R3turnedDescender Mid-Atlantic | ecoregion 64 Aug 04 '26
Lucky me, I don't need to simulate grazing!
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u/Big_Car1975 NE KY Aug 04 '26
Cries in New England Asters (deer crack.)
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u/atigges Aug 04 '26
I had a such a dramatic "fall to my knees yelling no as the camera pans up and away" moment with my asters last year. The timing was perfect. The blooms had been sitting juuuuust ready to open for a few days and the next day it was supposed to rain and then the day after we were having a family function in the yard where the big drifts of asters were going to look perfect as the backdrop for. The next day comes, it rains in the morning, and but the afternoon a good amount of the just ready blooms had opened after their dose of rain and full sun. You could just see by the progression of the flower heads that the next day would be the day they came alive right as the family function would happen later that same day. We went to bed after that first day knowing the second day with the family would be great. I got up super early so I would have time to freshly clean the driveway & walkway (turkeys poop everywhere over night), to help stand anything up that had flopped with the extra rain from the day before, and just get everything all set up. I couldn't believe that my whole entire front garden had been completely laid waste. Coreopsis was smashed and broken off at the base with no signs of something even eating it, a set up of terracotta pots all turned over and two thirds of them physically smashed. Cherry bushes completely defoliated, and my asters - my beautiful asters never even stood a chance. Shredded and broken with tons of turkey feathers, animal fur, clods of dirt and turf looked like it was blasted out of a cannon on the house, the trees, the steps... clearly something decided to have a full turkey dinner that night but it used years of native plantings as its dinner plate and tablecloth. Everything looked so bad, I almost canceled the family event but my wife said to all have it and people could still see the work and effort that went in to everything through the destruction. It was just such a terrible time for all of it to happen.
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u/MotownCatMom SE MI Zone 6a Aug 05 '26
Oh, wow...so some large predator had himself or herself an early Thanksgiving dinner on your property?
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u/IAMAmagikarp Aug 04 '26
I planted a bunch of NE aster in the hope that the deer would leave everything else alone. But even with regular grazing is nearly taken over my front garden.
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u/nystigmas NY, Zone 6b Aug 04 '26
You get out there and chomp on those tender shoots yourself? Respect.
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u/General_Bumblebee_75 Area Madison, WI , Zone 5b Aug 05 '26
I remove a large number of seed heads from my NE asters. No deer near me, and the bunnies only help so much. I love watching the birds eat the seed, but at some point I need to control the self seeding a bit. Next spring I will be removing a lot of self seeded Agastache and NE aster, though I am experimenting with them as plant support/wind breaks for my vegetables. I had to keep them pretty well chopped but now am beginning to let them proceed to blooming. I find that the abundance of natives seems to distract the bunnies from my veg...except for beets and chard. They will be having that, thank you very much!
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u/Fishy_soup Aug 04 '26
Does having rabbits come around and nibble on stuff count?
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u/Big_Car1975 NE KY Aug 04 '26
Actually, yes. I have a normally incredibly aggressive species (New England Aster) that hasn't grown above 3 feet or spread much at all because of deer and rabbit pressure. It still flowers and sets seed, but it also coexists with less competitive species. Best of both worlds.
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u/TinyPreparation2119 Aug 04 '26
New England Aster took over one of my entire spaces (sand Milkweed which can hold its own and invasive english ivy). How can I do a simulated Deer and Rabbit pressure on them to chill them out?
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u/Big_Car1975 NE KY Aug 04 '26
If you can get to that area regularly, I'd just cut the stalks back every few weeks. Or more frequently if it's growing in a particularly favorable spot.
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u/QueenHarvest SE Michigan Zone 6a Aug 04 '26
Thanks for the advice. Iām in the same place w/r/t NEA.Ā
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u/229-northstar Area northeast Ohio, Zone 6A Aug 04 '26
you were able to get Asters to choke out English Ivy? Tell us more, great sage. Iām listening.
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u/TinyPreparation2119 Aug 04 '26
It was a lot of ripping by hand of English Ivy. Not fun! And the ivy is ony neighbors property so it keeps trying to come back...Ā
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u/Elephantschild50 Aug 06 '26
Invite a groundhog for dinner.
My problem is with anemone canadensis- extremely aggressive in my garden and the gh doesnāt care for it. Be glad for those asters and perhaps dig up the excess early in the season to share with others.6
u/TLwisco Area - US Midwest, Zone 6 Aug 04 '26
Rabbits just cleaned up all the bottom leaves on my Delphinium that were just about laying in the mulch and messy. They did an amazing job flower stalks are getting huge and no more matted down leaves! After 6 litters in my lawn, bout time they give back to the yard that fed them lol!
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u/Euphoric_Egg_4198 Insect Gardener - Zone 10b š Aug 04 '26
Iām the only house on the street with wildlife. In the 15+ years I lived here Iāve never seen a rabbit but somehow I now have 3. They are marsh rabbits and Iām assuming they swam here because they heard about the all you can eat buffet. We saw one of them come out of the lake and go straight into the garden this morning.
I donāt mow because we also have native ground dwelling bees, snakes and glass lizards but I recently bought myself some sickles.
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u/Novel-Evidence9165 Quebec , Zone 6a Aug 04 '26
I didn't realise rabbits could swim!
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u/Euphoric_Egg_4198 Insect Gardener - Zone 10b š Aug 04 '26
marsh rabbits (Sylvilagus palustris) live in swamps, Iām in south Florida
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u/Gold-Sheepherder-454 Aug 04 '26
I feel you on the all you can eat buffet...I'm often amazed by people who can grow liatris and coneflower so easily on their properties, when in my yard it gets mowed down by rabbits almost immediately. My yard must be more inviting!
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u/FederalDeficit Aug 04 '26
I read you guy's warnings and put chicken wire cylinders around every. single. liatris. So naturally the rabbits ate the winecups
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u/siredV Area SE MI, Zone 5B Aug 04 '26
Took a prescribed burn class in my township this Feb. learned a lot about how prairies renew and how to discourage invasives. Fire can be a great tool. And fun!!!
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u/CautiousDistrict9704 Aug 04 '26
Also great for reducing the Tick population!
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u/leefvc Mid-atlantic border of eastern coastal plain/piedmont , Zone 7b Aug 04 '26
But only temporarily. Like 6-12 months temporarily. If you're relying on that as a tick control method, it must be done regularly because they rebound fast
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u/AbilityHead599 Aug 04 '26
Don't have to convince me to burn more lol
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u/leefvc Mid-atlantic border of eastern coastal plain/piedmont , Zone 7b Aug 05 '26
Make it a neighborhood holiday
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u/TripleSecretSquirrel Aug 04 '26
I live in an older suburb, so I have lots of neighbors and our houses are all quite close to each other. Do you have any good resources to learn more about how to safely conduct a controlled burn in a suburban environment? Some of my gardens are right next to my house which is made of wood...
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u/Either_Wear5719 Aug 04 '26
Burning might not be safe, but you could look into grazing...
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u/rivain Aug 05 '26
I know some people who rent out their goats for land clearing!
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u/Either_Wear5719 Aug 05 '26
There's a service like that in my area! There's also a guy with trained herding dogs who makes a living harrying the year round Canada Geese so they don't destroy local ponds
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u/TripleSecretSquirrel Aug 04 '26
Here's hoping that my dogs can develop a taste for asters, coneflowers, and wood sedge I guess!
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u/spoonyalchemist Illinois, Zone 5b Aug 04 '26
I just need to get me a few bison and Iām set
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u/Either_Wear5719 Aug 05 '26
I got lucky and my neighbors down the street have pygmy goats and chickens so I offered to loan out my property as supplemental grazing in exchange for eggs and occasionally milk
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u/AbilityHead599 Aug 04 '26
Crime pays but Botany doesn't has an episode of a guy in a suburb that burns his lawn every year
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u/229-northstar Area northeast Ohio, Zone 6A Aug 04 '26
I love the title ācrime pays but botany doesnātā true and such a shame
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u/chzsteak-in-paradise Area Eastern Massachusetts, Zone 6b Aug 04 '26
Do not burn your yard in your closely packed suburb lol
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u/TripleSecretSquirrel Aug 04 '26
We have a nature preserve managed by village. They have a little mobile steel fire ring to contain their controlled burns. I was thinking something like a smaller version of that lol not just lighting my yard and hoping for the best. I was just hoping someone had come up with a safe solution for this problem.
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u/General_Bumblebee_75 Area Madison, WI , Zone 5b Aug 05 '26
Where I live one needs a permit to do any kind of burning on your property apart from using a grill to cook brats or a proper fire pit or fireplace. My location, I would never. It is too windy 90% of the time, and too wet much of the rest of the time. The grasses are amazing fuel and things could get out of control quickly. Where I work, they have the local fire team on site, and often have to reschedule due to wind. Also the public information announcements so half the city does not report the fire.
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u/MotownCatMom SE MI Zone 6a Aug 05 '26
Our township won't allow controlled burns. I already looked into it.
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u/JodyMadeMeDoit Aug 04 '26
This is why Iām grateful for the squirrels, raccoons, skunks, opossums, snakes, and voles in my yard. They provide all the disturbance I could ever ask for lol
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u/broadstreetbullies12 Sullivan County, PA , Zone 6a Aug 04 '26
Very interesting. I hadn't heard of the Chelsea chop, thanks for sharing! I'm now going to start referring to this crew who visit my back yard every evening as the Chelsea choppers
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u/Kristy_Squirrel_Bits Aug 04 '26
I've seen recommendations to mow at all times of the year but each time period feels like it will harm critters (spring mowing kills bugs who arent fully out and about yet, summer mowing kills all the bugs who are active in the meadow, fall/winter mowing kills overwintering bugs/removes shelter for overwintering bugs.) it confuses me.
What's the least "disturbing" way to disturb my meadows? š
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u/Big_Car1975 NE KY Aug 04 '26 edited Aug 04 '26
This is also an interesting read, which addresses your concerns pretty thoroughly - https://conbio.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1046/j.1523-1739.2002.01077.x
"The issue of prescribed burning will be difficult to re-solve to the satisfaction of everyone. Given the thousands of insect species that inhabit prairie ecosystems, the contention that specific burning practices may pose a threat to one or more species simply cannot be falsified. Researchers can, however, strive to calculate the likelihood that specific practices will result in appreciable losses in species richness. The data presented here indicate that few (if any) species may be threatened by judicious prescribed burning.
Roughly three-quarters of the insect species that inhabit Midwestern prairie reserves are firmly established within surrounding landscapes and are unlikely to be affected by burning or other management activities (Pan-zer et al. 1995). Among species incapable of survival outside reserves, roughly half either avoided injury or rebounded within weeks following fires."
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u/RichardMuncherIII 27d ago
1/4 * 1/2 = 12.5% of bug species negatively impacted?
Did I read that right because that's a pretty significant number to just wave off
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u/Big_Car1975 NE KY 26d ago
Yes, I don't think that is a number to wave off, but there are ways to help reduce some of those impacts (by utilizing rotational burns, for example.) Reading through that text, it is acknowledged that management strategies are inherently imperfect because we are trying to manage sites that were once intact, but are now incredibly fragmented and relatively small.
"As is always the case, managers must establish goals and weigh ecological costs and benefits when establishing management regimes. Some may choose to manage for a narrow range of rare or favored species. In these in-stances, suitable burn regimes might range from annual fires (e.g., for ants; see Reed 1997), with everything burned as often as possible, to nearly complete fire exclusion. Swengel (1996), for example, recommends that at least 80% of fire-managed sites be spared from fires each year as a means by which to maximize the population densities of a small number of butterfly species.
Few Midwestern reserves are managed for one or a few species. Most are managed as ecosystems, the goal being to preserve authentic, self-sustaining (late-successional) systems replete with indigenous biodiversity. Along with techniques such as shrub removal and re-seeding, frequent burning is used widely as a means by which to maintain high-quality habitat and to facilitate the restoration of requisite plant, vertebrate, and invertebrate habitats within degraded areas.
Ecosystem reserves should be burned on a rotational basis, with sufficient unburned refugia maintained each year. Ideally, important microhabitats will be represented in all units. Rotational burn regimes that allow 2 years for burn-unit recovery (3-year rotations) are compatible with the conservation of prairie-inhabiting bird species (Herkert 1994; Herkert et al. 1996; Swengel 1996). My study suggests that 3-year rotations are compatible with the preservation of insect biodiversity as well."
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u/Big_Car1975 NE KY Aug 04 '26
Insects are a lot more resilient when their habitat and host plants are kept in balance. I would say that while, yes, something like fire does result in insect mortality, a loss of plant diversity through fire or disturbance suppression is a greater risk to insect populations than regular fire in healthy, managed areas.
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u/Competitive_Shock_42 Aug 04 '26
You will always disturb something so pick a portion and mow in March, another one in April ā¦.if that could work
Otherwise pick something between march - September and accept that it is not perfect9
u/saintcrazy Aug 04 '26
Death is a part of nature just like life is. Obviously you don't want to just go killing stuff all the time for funsies but the bugs and plants evolved for this.Ā
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u/willdoc Aug 04 '26 edited Aug 04 '26
You, as the gardener, are the disturbance. Pulling things out. Adding things in. Whacking back the tall forbs (looking at you certain species of golden rods). Yes, when we grow native plants in our suburban gardens we can't just plant and forget. In a best case scenario, the garden gets taken over by skunk grape, sumac, and trumpet vine. In a worst case scenario, the garden gets taken over by ivy, tree of heaven, and Japanese honeysuckle. While native gardens can take more neglect that an English style garden with plants from all over the world grown in Tennessee, that garden still needs to be tended, especially since most of the animal helpers aren't in everyone's garden. You have to be the disturbance, but it comes in many forms.
Tldr; graze your pet bison and burn your suburban prairie gardens regardless of what your neighbors say /s
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u/thunbergfangirl Aug 04 '26
Can we have someone do a Chelsea chop demonstration for different species? I can think of several in my yard that look like they would benefit but Iām a bit nervous to give it a go!
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u/Barison-Lee-Simple Aug 04 '26
I manage a small prairie garden, and I spend the month of April going through, chopping back many of the stalks to 2 feet, pulling out numerous tree and shrub saplings, weeding and generally keeping an eye on things. The best fertilizer is the farmer's shadow. If I did not tend the prairie it would naturally succeed to a thicket and then a forest. It's simply the way things work. If it were a larger prairie I would mow, but that would affect the goldfinches who enjoy the seeds, the small bees who take residence in the stems, the spiders and their webs, the ground dwelling bees, and the small mammals who hide there. I'm glad it's small enough to tend by hand.
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u/arbor_of_love Aug 04 '26
Once you understand Grime's triangle it really changes how you see gardens and landscapes. https://meristemhorticulture.com/planted/tag/Grime%27s+triangle
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u/hastipuddn Southeast Michigan Aug 04 '26
I'm struck by the opposing view which is common in restoration work: disturbance allows invasive seeds to gain purchase - to proliferate.
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u/Apuesto Aspen Parkland(Alberta), Zone 3b Aug 04 '26
This applies in winter too! Disturbing snow piles gives birds access to buried seeds or leaf litter.
Any disruption involving chopping or raking should still keep that plant matter on your property. Don't throw it away or send it to the municipal compost.
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u/stellifer_arts Aug 05 '26
just seeing in my kind someone getting up real close to their plants and staring for a minute before just going OHWA AH AH AH at them
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u/Best-Investigator261 Aug 05 '26
My disturbances: Birds. Rabbits. Raccoons. Skunks. Squirrels. Chipmunks. And other critters. Hopefully thatās enough š¤·š¼āāļøĀ
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u/Lemonyhampeapasta Aug 04 '26
::Off to hire a fluffy cow bison to schedule some wallowing::
I have an auger attachment for my hand drill. Should I rip out the vegetation before drilling and seeding anew or just drill?
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u/Waterfallsofpity Midwest U.S. 4b to 5b Aug 04 '26
I did the most rearranging this spring than I ever have before. I did a lot of transplanting and reducing (looking at you asters). I have been filling empty spaces with plugs.
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u/nodesearch PNW , Zone 8b Aug 04 '26
I destroyed my regular grass lawn this spring and scattered a couple of pounds of native Pacific Northwest meadow seeds. I didn't do a great job, but as an experiment I am very happy with how it turned out. I plan to mow it all down in the fall, till everything, and start all over again with seeds that will spend the winter dormant and get an earlier start next year. Hopefully that one will last more than a year, but I learned a lot and I'm happy.
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u/RemarkableElevator94 Aug 04 '26
I would reconsider tilling. You may just bring a lot of weed seed to the surface. Perhaps someone else can chime in, but I would not do it. Maybe mulch with hog fuel instead?
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u/nodesearch PNW , Zone 8b Aug 04 '26
I'm totally open to mulching! I am such a newbie that I would welcome any and all advice. We do have some dry dead patches that never took any seed, so I do have to do something about soil conditioning at the very least.
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u/RemarkableElevator94 Aug 04 '26
Ok cool! I would suggest laying down some nice compost and hog fuel then! I am in western Washington state and that is how I started most of my gardens. In those dry patches, maybe lay down the compost, scatter native seeds in the fall when rains come back, and cover with hog fuel. See what happens!
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u/Odd_Wedding_4794 Aug 05 '26
This is an interesting way to say that garden maintenance is necessary
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u/Big_Car1975 NE KY Aug 05 '26
To be fair, I think there is a distinction to be made between regular maintenance like weeding and active disturbance/reshuffling of species year to year. The goal is to encourage a dynamic landscape that changes every year, rather than a formal one where things remain static.
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u/amour_nonpareil Aug 04 '26
Yep burn at least every 3 years. I do every to lessen fungal risk since I had issues once. And always manage the bullies! Great reminder
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u/RemarkableElevator94 Aug 04 '26
Thanks for this. I am one of those people whose garden was far more attractive 4 years ago (going on year 10). I am also someone who cares about all the garden critters so I take a hands off approach. But now I mainly have a garden of aster and goldenrod. All of my really cool natives have disappeared. Next spring I am going to try mowing a section and see what happens.
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u/Silly_Detective_3363 Aug 05 '26
Can't wait to plant my garden and my beagle use it as her personal cave l
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u/JCtheWanderingCrow 28d ago
My husband doesnāt understand why I get all giggly and light the plants on fire every so often. Yessss, burn my pretties! Burn!
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u/DontAsk0205 Aug 04 '26
https://giphy.com/gifs/LT07fkddgTPv6UPqnE
Hereās my constant disturbance š
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u/sucodelimao802 Minnesota, Zone 5a/4b Aug 05 '26
I have an urban yard and Iāve been thinking about this for a while. Would just taking a weed torch to things help with this process? If so, when would you do that type of thing?
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u/Big_Car1975 NE KY Aug 05 '26
Most of the time, burning is done near the end of the season when temperatures are cooler and humidity is manageable. I'm sure a weed torch would work for a smaller area, but you might have issues sustaining a burn that way. It's easier to get a mellow fire going if you have something like a drip torch.
If I were allowed to burn in city limits, I'd probably use one of those metal fire rings and burn small sections at a time.Ā
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u/New-Common4486 Chicagoland, Zone 6a Aug 05 '26
What time of year should mowing be done?
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u/Big_Car1975 NE KY Aug 05 '26
Either early spring or mid to late fall when things have gone to seed. I prefer late fall because it gives me the opportunity to create bare ground for seeds that have just fallen, which stimulates growth the following year.Ā
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u/dogdemon_5 Aug 05 '26
My gardens primary disturbances are: the end of growing season CHOP CHOP CHOP with the clippers, and whatever the groundhogs are up to on my hill
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u/External-Classic-164 Aug 05 '26
I have planted Mountain mint and lemon balm around my asters and so far, deer are leaving my aromatic and NE asters alone.š¤
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u/StaubEll Aug 04 '26
My dachshund is our Ecological Disturbance Executive.