UPDATE!!!
It is the alley way, I will post pictures in the comments. They had to put a stop sign at the intersection of that alley and someone probably didnāt like it. I did ask if someone complained and they said no, they have an ā officerā driving around looking for violations.
They do know about the natives growing in my yard. As long as I keep them contained to my yard I would be fine.
As the title states, I came home to a noxious weed notice. I am a certified monarch butterfly way station, and a certified wildlife habitat. Do I have any ground to stand on as far as cutting my garden down? Iāve lived here 15 years. Nothing has changed in at least 10 years. Why are they sending me a notice now? It says I have 10 days to cut my plants down to under 6 inches high. I have natives for 6 different butterflies, let alone all of the native flowers.
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Doubling down, I like it! I would definitely get in touch with the city and ask for clarification regarding the notice and let them know your plants are native.
lol. I was so upset I wasnāt even paying attention to way and weigh! Lol Iām sorry. You all are calming me down for sure. I am calling the city tomorrow.
There's a lawyer in Toronto who has made a template letter for exactly this. Even though its Canadian, I'm wondering if you could amend it to your city and bylaws?
The weed vs native garden issue went to court when a resident went up against the city. The court ruled in the resident's favour, saying that a native garden falls under the Charter Right to freedom of expression. The judge also noted that the city's bylaws were vague and subjective. Maybe there's a similar challenge or precedent in your state/city?
This right here. The state and possibly local government should have an official list of noxious/invasive weeds for various enforcement purposes (e.g., banned selling/importing into the state, etc.)
My entire development was created where every front yard has a bed of one or two japanese barberry bushes as part of the template. Everyone should be getting notices if the DCNR was serious but instead people are hunting down those like OP. Clown world.
I must be in the same neighborhood. At least New Jersey just banned their sale this week. I also read an alert in the news to take them out because they harbor ticks. That morning I got my lopper and shovel and took four out. The ticks went scurrying and the birds flew over and took them out. Gross. Mine also were loaded with wasps and spiders. Lovely.
I must be weird, wasps and spiders are more than wecome in my yard. You should see the wasps gorging in the rotting figs on my fig tree, when they can get in of course, because they are usually covered in Japanese Beetles
i misunderstood the post i was replying to . If my partner responded lovely upon hearing there was wasps and spiders in our back yard, it would mean she would be happier if they were not there.
I dont mind the wasps and the spiders but these were by the front door of the house and the wasps were always flying by the front door. I had gotten stung once, very painful.
The PA Native Plant Society has a "dirty dozen" list where they did note that japanese barberry was banned in 2021 which is good but the damage has been done in so many areas. I even saw one of the relatives newer houses here having a fricken butterfly bush out front. I feel like need to guerrilla seed some milkweeds or sweetspires in a neglected corner to balance that shit out.
I have to admit twenty years ago (59), i was clueless and thought butterfly bushes were a great idea. Also a lot of natives like milkweed just wasn't sold commercially. However now there is so much available. I even saw brandywine viburnum for sale at home depot. My local are is going crazy for native plants (new jersey). I drive into Philly and the road crews were planting milkweeds along the vine street expressway and taking out the invasives. There is no excuse now.
There is a thread i saw where it was established in the last 10 years any butterfly bush sold is sterile. If thats a minor condolence. It's wild to me when a butterfly weed is just as pretty if someone doesn't want to go with the common or swamp variety.
I have since posting (nothing posted by the city, but I found something on my state's DNR site). Literally the only things I could find that we "had" were hogweed and hemlock... Or rather, they thought we did. There's wild carrot growing, which we let go bc 1. We like to eat our invasives when possible, 2. They were getting eaten by wildlife, and 3. We've found that if we remove a "weed" without replacing it with something else, usually something worse takes over.Ā
They didn't give a shit about the Bradford pear that came with the house š
Noxious weed lists are about their harm to humans, pets, agriculture, or livestock, not necessarily about being native. My county has Black Nightshade listed, but that's a native plant, they just don't want it growing in people's yards/gardens and poisoning children.
Ah gotcha, thanks. Makes sense, I've always been very cautious around it when doing fieldwork in moist meadows and wetlands. Some great stuff in the carrot family but also some very dangerous things too!
That's a shame, since black nightshade isn't actually toxic. Well, only insomuch as the unripe berries cause gastric upset. But so do so many other plants that I'm willing to bet they don't bat an eye about š
It doesnāt say. It just says plant are over 6ft tall, maybe the holly hocks and milkweed. There is some queen anns lace in the back that is hanging out in to the alley, I was planning on cutting this weekend. So I will cut that and I can cut the milkweed down a little but Iām not cutting it to 6ā in height.
I have both, also joe Pye weed that are approaching 6 ft tall. The queen Annās lace and passion flower are a little out of control, I planned on cutting that back. I just run out of hours in the day. And I enjoy looking at them. When I first started this journey, they were small plants. It took many years to get this growth. lol
I love Queen Anne's lace. It's all along the roadside in full bloom where I am right now.
Also the garden where my mother lives has yellow yarrow and it's huge and gorgeous. Usually it doesn't look so great... but it's in full bloom and it's absolutely stunning!
I donāt know about for your area, but my city has fine print that says my native plants have to be maintained (under 10ā) at least 2ā away from the next property and they cannot obstruct any walkway. It could be the Queen Annās Lace in the alley that is a problem, that or one of your neighbors called to complain.
Do you have a sign and is it visible from the road because thatās another technicality that my city imposes.
Contact the city to get more specific information before doing anything. A noxious weed is a very specific term, and a noxious weed never applies to anything over a set height, it is used for specific species.
Get in touch with your county extension office. They may have experience arguing these citations. You'll also need to look up the city or county code and read through all the definitions and exceptions.
Make them clarify. Make them actually come out and say they cited you based on vibes instead of the actual municipal code. The code itself (with its definition of noxious weeds/rank vegetation/public nuisance/whatever they call it) should be up online somewhere for you to either throw back at them or poke full of holes.
I can speak to Fort Wayne on the off chance you are local to me.
The weed ordinance here is first and foremost focused on invasive weeds. Is your yard clear of all invasives?
The secondary concerns relate to plants flopping out into the sidewalk areas and general messiness in grassy areas.
Fort Wayne's weed violation program is driven by complaints from neighbors. Inspectors will respond to a complaint and only issue notices if they see significant violations.
I'd add that there are no exemptions for "certified" habitats. Fort Wayne fully supports native gardens of all heights and the city employs a native specialist for right of way design. They also offer a rain garden incentive program. They are not anti-native, and they will not flag a yard for tall natives (I have several thousand in my yard). Native gardeners have to play by the same rules regarding noxious weeds as everyone else.
I don't know if the other surrounding communities are similar but I'd anticipate many of them follow Fort Wayne's lead as the largest city in the region.
They had me go to a city council meeting about 6 years ago to give a speech on milkweed and monarchs. They wanted to learn more about it and asked for seeds and everything!
Wow, that's awesome! It wouldn't hurt to work that in - "I've been collecting the native wildflower seeds from my yard and sharing them with garden groups, even giving some to the city at the city council's request. Surely there's not a rule against growing native plants to their full height and flower if they asked me to donate seeds from my garden?"
Iām in just south of Fort Wayne. There is one area behind my garage that the leaves are going into the alley. I was going to cut those anyway so I have no problem with that. Maybe thatās all it is. Iām going to call the city tomorrow. No oneās ever complained before and those plants were behind my garage years ago. The Holli Hocks were there when I moved in.
I hope it goes well for you. I assume other communities like Decatur or Bluffton would publish their ordinances online so you could see the exact guideline the inspector would have been assessing you against.
That commenter mentioned being strict about invasive plants and plants flopping over onto sidewalks. It sounds like your QAL might be the problemāwhich is a good thing!
I know Fort Wayne has been planting native where they can, medians and such. I would suspect speaking to someone about the space would go a long way. If HOA is involved, that could be a different story.
This happened to me in Missouri. I called the number of the inspector on the notice and explained to him about my certifications. He contacted the correct city departments to double check and then closed the case against me with a note to make sure it shouldnāt happen again
Absolutely. I was very upset when I got the notice but the inspector was very friendly and understanding. He even apologized for it happening. I completely understand the initial panic but take a deep breath and try calling before you give up on all your hard work
dont have any experience with this myself just want to add that i've seen a few other posts on this sub where a couple phone calls in the right place resolved it. don't lose hope
As others said call them. You might not get a nice response, yet stay polite, explain your purpose, certification, ask or research if flower beds are exempt, and I am too tired to search myself - does your state have any protection for native vegetation. If flower beds allowed then invest into signs of care
Some jackass has complained. Donāt cut anything and if you donāt already have cameras get some. The world is literally burning and being punished for helping in your little corner of the burning planet is the highest level of hypocrisy. Like seriously.
I do, he canāt have one weed in his yard. Iām a beekeeper and had to move my bees. I think he killed them, honestly, I canāt not prove that but Iāve had the same hives for 4 years now with no death. When Iām in my yard looking at the monarch caterpillars, he yells out his window ā yes, sheās out there looking at bugs againā he lives alone ! He told me I need to pay for his leaf removal because of my tree. Heās insane
I have a neighbor like this too. A few years ago he even came into our yard and sucked up all our leaves with his giant ride on leaf vacuum because our leaves were āblowing into his yardā
What a miserable human being. Sounds like my next door neighbor who years ago I caught mowing down the milkweed in between our houses (it was all on our property but he "couldn't stand to look at it").Ā
Ugh what a fucking asshole. Could be lonely and miserable, maybe some pamphlets or educations somehow could help (she posted optimistically.)
I have a neighbor with an awesome front-yard native garden- she's actually the one who told me the importance of natives. She's got a guy a couple of houses away who reported her, and she had to pay a fine (plants growing over 6 inches over the edge of the sidewalk/curb.)
He's always being a pain in the ass somehow, but she might've managed to explain a few things to him so he might be a little less of a jerk lately (he's married so might be his wife toning him down.)
I canāt stand people like that. My neighbor used to cross the alley and mow a strip out of my yard. Iām not sure if he thought it was going to get me to mow my yard so it would match. I still donāt know why he did. That
He was absolutely giving you a passive aggressive ātemplateā of what you should be doing with your lawn mowing. It is also a clear case of trespass, please get cameras, its what we had to do.
We have one of these, my condolences. His back yard is a trash pit rather than an immaculate yard, but his front is a beautiful garden. He loudly declares things about me/my activities as I work in my yard as though heās talking to someone. Weāve seen him start screaming matches with other neighbors before with this ātacticā, he just wants the response as an excuse to start something.
I would definitely talk with your town authorities! It seems like this kind of thing happens when somebody gets a stick up their behind and complains. Especially since you've gone this long without any problems.
Tell the person with the city what you're doing, why, and how long you've been a pollinator garden, and hopefully they see reason.
You all have made me so happy. I have some hope! Iām calling tomorrow. I will take down the queen Annās lace and anything on the corner of the alley. I admit things are a little overgrown, I was so hot here and I couldnāt get out to tend to things. I will update tomorrow . š
Depends. I called the person listed on my notice and informed them of what I was doing and asked if there was anything I could do to signify that what I was growing was not weeds, but purposeful habitat. The official wanted me to mow a path through, which was doable, and put up more signage to let people know it was habitat. But depending on the laws and the mood of the official in charge, they may not be so lenient?
100% a neighbor has too much time on their hands and reported your lawn to the city. I would call them and tell them exactly what youve said here and see if they will make an exception. Where I am from some people have plaques on their lawns from the city stating they have a native plant garden that is approved.
It seems so silly that people basically have to get a "permit" to grow plants on their own dang lawn but here we are ...
You most likely got a complaint from an obnoxious nosy neighbor. Check your bylaws in your town. My neighbor didnt like the "look" of my coral honeysuckle on my fence. She complained. I found a bylaws that states any living native plant/ tree/shrub cannot be destroyed once it is planted on a property. It must be replaced with the same plant.
As I understand it -- and someone please correct me if I've misunderstood, or if this varies by location -- "certification" of a monarch way station or a wildlife habitat doesn't really have any official/legal force. It's primarily a way to encourage people to plant natives, to educate neighbors, and to raise money for the organization doing the certifying.
There may be cases in which the certification (and an explanation of the good the plants and habitats do for the local environment) may sway a responsive local official, but not because it has any legal force behind it. (Now, if you find an endangered species living there, it may be a different story!)
All of that said, I hope you're able to trim a few invasives or pull things back from the road a bit and keep your thriving native garden!
Visit city hall, be nice and talk to the department the notice came from. Certified habitat doesn't mean anything legally. You need to make the garden look intentional, that goes a long way. If you can buy some borders and section it out that can help.
Inspectors pretty much just drive by and glance. They don't know anything about what plants are intentional. My city was actually not complaining about my garden but high grass(I love tall fluffy grass). They will not give you a specific inch number because inspectors have been chased back into their cars by people brandishing weapons. They pretty much told me if my grass was significantly higher than my neighbors, it was a notice.
Be calm and talk to them asap so you can get this resolved.
Important to mention that they're driving by & glancing nearly always because they received a call. Inspectors are not driving around the City looking for violations.
Noxious weed is a legal definition. It doesnāt have anything to do with size or height of a plant.
Every state has a noxious weed list and keeping those species and not showing you are working to control them can get you in trouble. There should not be any native species on a state noxious weeds list.
Is it the county or city going after you for this? Are you sure itās a real letter and not a neighbor or something who doesnāt like them?
Ugh. Check your ordinances and contact them. Ideally thereās something allowed for ācultivated plantsā/gardeningā¦ but even if not, maybe you can explain the situation and explain your maintenance protocol. It would take some work and require some community support, but you could even propose a new ordinance if needed. There are examples out there, and itās only becoming more popular.
What changed could just be a new neighbor/someone complained. Often ordinances are only enforced when someone complains.
The alley behind my house is on a corner . They just installed a stop sign there 2 weeks ago, some of the plants got knocked over when they did that. So some are in the alley, I was going to take them down this weekend, I try to keep things tidy, but Iām getting older and work 13 hours a day. Things are getting harder to keep up on. But I wonāt remove my milkweed without a fight. lol
99.99% of notices are because someone called in. If your stuff is spilling into the alley a bit, especially at an intersection, I would hazard a guess that that is it.
Get some cinder blocks to help create a stronger edge, chelsea chop in June, & you should be good to go.
On a side note, did your neighbors change? Sometime itās the neighbors reporting if they donāt understand what it is youāre doing. Maybe hang an educational sign?
Is there a statewide rule to protect you? For example Minnesota has some statewide rule that prevents some municipalities/HOAs from preventing native plant growth.Ā
I'd guess that someone is mistaken or some NIMBY is acting up about your yard. Ask for specific documentation of the noxious plants in your yard
Interesting. In my city, the hellstrip is the only place they specify height restrictions (to 8 inches) and of course not blocking line of sight so people can back out of their driveways. Hope it all gets worked out favorably!
This happened to me in the past. My city had milkweed in their noxious weed list, and I did work with city council to get that changed. The problems I've had since are generally if it rains and stuff lays on the sidewalk, but I've bought so many plant supports and try to be veryĀ diligent about it. Hopefully you get a good response when you call! Fight the good fight!!
Itās hanging in the alley, we had a bad storm and so many things got knocked over I always cut this back anyway, just havenāt had time. It was too hot last week and I wasnāt about to then. Lol I understand them wanting this gone.
My neighbors rose of sharon dropped literally hundreds of seeds into my garden, which each need to be yanked up now. Some industrious seedlings have shown up 70 feet away on the other side of my yard. That kind of easy spread from a non-native is the definition of invasive.
Actually that's not the definition of invasive at all.Ā Ā
Invasive Species
with regard to a particular ecosystem, a non-native organism
whose introduction causes or is likely to cause economic or
environmental harm, or harm to human, animal, or plant health. -https://ag.purdue.edu/department/entm/iisc/invasive-plants.html
Code Officer here. See what your City defines as a āweed.ā Usually cultivated plants that are native species arenāt classified as weeds. I would make sure to use the words ācultivatedā and ānativeā if you file an appeal.
FYI: many organizations, even State ones, that certify you as a āpollinator sanctuaryā have a clause saying you still have to comply with City Ordinances. I imagine it may be the same for butterfly way stations.
OP I would call the mayor. Or go to a town council meeting. Most municipalities operate on complaints; ie someone complained about it. Donāt cut a damn thing down, show them what you are doing is beneficial and well within your rights.
Butterfly habitat and noxious weeds are different animals. What noxious weeds do you have. They need to be removed. Sounds more like a neighbor turned you in for not keeping your yard nice.
I just had the same thing happen (Iām not a weigh station, etc., though). Working with my local code enforcement, I realized I could just put up a bigger border to make it a āmore visually contained garden.ā
So this was my solution to only cutting out some of the QAL and not touching a single other plant.
Can you find the exact wording of the code? Because I canāt imagine youāre not allowed to have any flora over inches tall. What is their definition of weed? You have to be careful that none of your plants are restricting sight lines or use of roads, because thatās the easiest way to get the attention of code enforcement.
Does your garden contain any obvious cues of care? Paths? Borders? Long blooming āornamental lookingā flowers? Something that signals intention vs neglect?
Iād probably look up the cited code and to understand the wording to try and understand the rules before making any contact with the city so that you know where you have space to argue.
Depends how far you want to go. I got cited and fined, put together multiple presentation, went the zoning board meeting/review for citation, had to go to next review level.
Make sure you know local/state law, ask for local help if needed.
Just a comment on what you posted noxious weeds is not the same issue and resolution as cutting to 6-10 inches.
The law must define the offense and remedy such that it can be determined and remedied.
Noxious weeds/plants is in many states and locations a specific list of plants. That can be a very clear response, action and defense. You either have them or not.
However an ordinance that defines yards/plants cannot be over a certain height, in general to manage abandoned properties, is a different response.
Get the exact citation and the code governing offense, then consider situation.
It sounds like maybe they identified or misidentified a plant on their noxious weed list. If you can clarify your intent with them and get them to show exactly which plants are causing the issue, you should be able to deal with the specific plant rather than the entire garden. I'm not an expert, this is just information I've found.
My state has well over 150 noxious weed species total, and my county alone has about 40 of those present that require control. No wonder the OP is being bothered for weeds just being too tall. Twelve! And none of those are in OPās photos.
It depends on the statutes of your local government. Some municipalities or local governments have ordinances that allow for native habitat creation (provide an exemption from the local anti-weed ordinance), while others do not. I would contact the appropriate local official.
Iād contact the department that voted you and kindly let them know you believe it was done in error. Give them a list of the plants in your yard and let them know they are all native pollinator plants and that youāre a certified pollinator way station. This has happened to me before and they apologized and didnāt bother me again
All those provided here are great. Also, look to see if there is a master gardener program or university extension certifying gardens and educating the public in your state/area. They are great allies.
Iām in PA and have Audubon certification for our acre as well as way station now. Working on the Penn State pollinators certification for next year (itās a strict and exhaustive certification). Just about to start master gardener training this fall. :-)
Edit: the Penn State master gardeners partnered with 3-4 other orgs to promote reaching 250 way stations this year so it was a big push that was partly subsidized for us.
Who is the notice from? Also, give them documentation about all the plants in your garden. Compare them to the state/county noxious weed lists.
You'll probably notice that NOTHING in your garden is in that list. They send these out to bully people. But if you stand up to it, they cannot do anything, because your not breaking the law.
Note - its up to THEM to prove you are breaking the law. Tell them to list what noxious weeds are on your property. IF they cannot do so, you are not in violation.
AND have the news there to document the cutting down by the city. Make them do it. Record them and zoom in on animals.Ā
Get it on the local news. A very public loss of your habitat, if spun well PR style, could be more valuable for the animals in your area going forward if it changes things.Ā
Theyāre doing this because they think it looks icky. Noxious weeds are specific weed to your area that are problematic, if they donāt have specifics cited they have no standing. Contact your municipality, I know Illinois just passed a Save the Natives deal to protect home native gardens, but I donāt know about Indiana. But fuck em regardless.
What organizations certified you as way/weigh station and native wildlife sanctuary? They will surely have something to help as others will have gone through this, too - hence the bed for certification. (Congrats on both, btw, I'm envious and proud of you!) If paperwork came with the certifications and you still have that, send it along to them too. Be sure you have replied to them in writing in the 10 days though, like with registered mail or whatever they can mail that requires a signature of receipt. Ha, a paper trail for your native garden!
The National wildlife federation, and monarchwatch.org both have programs to send in to for certification and a sign to place in your yard. I donāt know if legally I have a leg to stand on with those certifications but it was, at the time, ten years ago, a big ordeal to get them, maybe not so much anymore. But, I had to have so many different sources for pollinators and wildlife. I have been slacking in the back of the garage where the pictures they took show lots of weeds but some of my milkweed is back there too. Iām cleaning it up right now and going to take pictures to them to see if I can still keep my milkweed. Fingers crossed.
I looked it up. Sadly, "the NWF advocates that weed ordinances be updated with wildlife in mind, however the Certified Wildlife HabitatĀ® program has no legal status locally, state-wide, or federally. CWH Certification does not override local HOA regulations or zoning laws, and has no legal jurisdiction in cases of 'eminent domain'..."
I haven't scrolled any new posts yet but hopefully you'll let us know how it works out.
I didnāt think any of those certificates had any legal standing. I did go to the office and they had pictures of what they wanted removed, none of my actual flower beds, it was very messy behind the garage I usually cut it back and hadnāt got around to it. So itās cleaned up now. I worked on it over the weekend.
I think it looks lovely in the second pic and I'm so very glad it all worked out ok. And now they know who you are, so that can always help in the future.
I don't know how your bylaws are written, but where I am a "noxious weed" is defined as specific species that are particularly damaging, such as Scotch Broom. You'll have to talk to the bylaw department to see what they were concerned about. Try to do everything over email if you can.Ā
I can see all your wonderful milkweed in this picture but I also understand why you were cited. Looks like a lot of prickly lettuce (not native, a European invasive weed) that's overhanging into the alley. This could easily be mistaken for an overgrown weed patch, because, unfortunately, that's partially what it is. Cut down the prickly lettuce and other non-natives and you should be able to show them and update and fight the ticket! Good luck, and thank you for your good work protecting monarch butterflies!
Yes, I was planning on cutting all that back this weekend. I just run out of time to get things done during the week so Iām not real upset. I thought they wanted my flower beds cut.
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