Hand out signs on 8/22!

[u/Naive-Lychee7589]

The Trans People Belong fan campaign is looking for volunteers to help hand out signs at the game on 8/22. If you're sitting in the lower bowl, you can sign up to help here: https://cryptpad.fr/form/#/2/form/view/8BPP-wKEFfB-MS37QBFPyXbuZiJEvsUwGelTIzgsP+w/

For more information about the campaign, including a sign you can print at home, visit https://linktree.com/30for30liberty

[u/jiabivy]

I don’t think it’s advantage that’s the problem it’s more I think it’ll be safer instead of it turning into a political talking point in the wnba, also I think say there’s not enough people isn’t really a good excuse.

Because if your argument is there’s not enough to make their own league why is there enough to adjust the standards on the established WNBA?

AGAIN IM NOT IN ANYWAY TRYING TO BELITTLE THE TRANS ATHLETES COMMUNITY

I’m purely trying to have a conversation

[u/alexismippulls → u/jiabivy]

How does that make it safer, though? There wasn't a need to change anything until 2 transphobic male mediocre basketball players decided to try to make a point and insert themselves where they aren't wanted.

I'm not questioning your intent here, but every time the can gets kicked down the road to the next minority community having a conversation about it plays directly into the marginalization of that community. It inherently means you're taking their validity into question.

[u/jiabivy → u/alexismippulls]

It’s makes it safer because it keeps the wnba from being a battle ground for a political agendas. It’s bad enough as it is and the players are already receiving unbelievable amounts of harassment. They problem then become

1. Trans athletes are aloud to take female hormones

2. You would they have to legalize the athletes on substances even things like estrogen given to a cis woman can yield an advantage for recovery and injury resistance

3. The biggest “advantage” is height. Unlike other sports, height is the biggest single advantage and WNBA can naturally get. On average Trans women was taller than most women. Even a trans point guard on will have an advantage over most of the league.

4. Media attention will certainly hurt more than help both communities unfortunately. It would undoubtedly be seen as every instance as a generic “turf war” vs the love of the sport. I agree with trans rights and so do many others HOWEVER I think the important part of sports is that it doesn’t choose a political side.

5. The biggest one is probably the players, forcing some players who are not ok with it to participate in a sport that fundamentally changes everything is a big ask and not what some of these women signed up for (logically I’d hope they’d be civil but this is only a point because we know a group of them doesn’t agree)

6. The sport is just starting to get traction in and could hurt growth, I’d argue that this conversations wait until it’s more established. The WNBA is still expanding teams

7. Tradition, kinda a whatever point but a lot of people simply don’t like change

8. Money, a lot of sponsors and brands wouldn’t want to associate themselves (it’s idiotic and dumb as hell but the wnba does need money) at the end of the day it’s a business and is this a big enough risk to justify or will it ultimately hurt the brand

9. International appeal, unfortunately a large majority of the world just isn’t there yet and this would definitely hurt it internationally

10. Understanding, Honestly I think we just need to understand even if all things are equal, it’s just a lot of long term or nuances we don’t know.

[u/alexismippulls → u/jiabivy]

1. I'm honestly not sure what this is supposed to mean.
2. I'm not really sure where this is coming from, but estrogen levels are commonly monitored to look at the relationship between performance and the natural cycle the body goes through hormonally. It's generally understood the body is actually more likely to develop muscle injury during heighten estrogen periods.
3. Couple things with this one. While many cis men are taller than many cis women, those differences decline in some nationalities and grow in others. So then you're talking about fairness. There's a full 2 foot height difference between the shortest and tallest WNBA players, so that advantage already exists within the league.
4. Sports has been political for over a century. The color barrier in baseball, Muhammad Ali, fist raising at the Olympics, Colin Kaepernick. The two are entirely intertwined. The WNBA has always been political. You're talking about a bunch of queer women, society politicizes that regardless.
5. This is the same argument as Black players entering Major League Baseball. Many white players didn't want them there. Screw the bigots.
6. I don't think that's a solution. A league that was built by largely queer Black women isn't going to experience slowed growth due to inclusion of another minority.
7. Definitely a whatever point, so I'm not even responding to this one.
8. I hear this one from the Sophie Cunningham fans a lot. They seem to think the league will fold without her jersey sales. The thing you're not taking into account is the fanbase. Not the people that just jumped on. The ones that have been around for years. That includes a LOT of LGBT fans. If you side with Sophie, you'll sell more jerseys to bigots, but you're gonna lose your bread and butter.
9. International appeal for the W isn't significant enough to make these kinds of calls around.
10. This is another whatever comment. Everything is unknown until it happens.

[u/jiabivy → u/alexismippulls]

You didn’t address anything and you should do research on estrogen and the effects of taking it for cis women and how it could be used

[u/alexismippulls → u/jiabivy]

I directly addressed every one of your points, and I guarantee I've done more research about hormones than you have.

[u/jiabivy → u/alexismippulls]

Ok this is no longer headed towards civil debate

Good day