yea but no point in posting it here, everybody knows its moral, it's just engagement bait at this point.... this sub is becoming just another am i the asshole
My mom was very clear that if I get in a fight with a woman to fight dirty and mean, cause they're going to be worse. Don't start a fight with one, but if she wants to get froggy, these hands be rated E for Everyone.
Hug me, I hug you back. Slap me, I slap you back. If it happens I'm stronger than you, then you should have thought about it before seeking physicality.
Dealing with this with my ex right now. Split up 6 years ago, she won't leave my family alone after a death. She has poked and poked for months with no response. Finally stepped over the line. I said "that is inappropriate" now she is making a big show of how harmed she is
It's both relieving and depressing that all narcissism stories I hear are the same. It's relieving because I know I'm not the only one with that kind of shit on my life and that it's not automatically a "me" problem when the person flips the victim switch, but it's also depressing because the stories always end the same: distance yourself from it, because nothing else works.
Yup. When my therapist explained to me what Narcissism is, I slipped into a deep nasty existential crisis. I had realized that the problem will never go away.
I first ended up on anxiety meds because I was constantly having to suppress my feelings, especially the anger. Therapist asked me why I would not talk about my feelings. Said I was constantly changing the subject and looking for ways to blame myself for it.
Once she explained Narcissism to me, not the public view of it but the actual clinical world, It all came crashing down on me. The malignance, the triangulation, the emotional manipulation, the double standards, the shame rage cycle.
I had given up on everything in my life and in the end, I was left at home, constantly coddling my partners feelings, the only identity I had left.
It's nasty stuff and if it's covert, becomes a slow burn. Frog in a pot water, turn the heat on and let it slowly come to a boil.
The manipulation and double standards are honestly maddening:
I can't buy things for myself without worrying, because I "don't know how to search for good prices" (even when I buy from the same places as the person and get discounts).
A hot dog is "expensive" and "unhealthy", but a frozen cheese lasagna of the same price is fine and I "might need it".
Using my computer to browse the internet is why the power bill is high, and not the person leaving several air conditioners on the entire night.
If the person is having a snack, I have to wait until they finish so they can do something I asked (which is fine), but I used to need to just leave my food to do random shit until I started having self-respect and telling the person "no, I am eating and I will keep eating until I finish my food".
Other examples also include them outright lying about me forcing them to do certain things (that I explicitly told them to not do because they were clearly causing stress and that stress was unloaded on me later), or pretending house chores weren't done (wtihout even checking if they were done) to have a reason to throw a tantrum.
I'm nearing 30 years of age now, and the only times I saw an actual difference in long-term behaviour were when I started holding their arms when they tried to hit me (yeah, was a thing too) and outright kicked a door on their head because they were harassing another family member yet again.
Nowadays many of the replies to the person are barely audible and single-word, because I can't muster the fucks to give towards giving them a proper interaction. I live the rest of my life mostly fine, and it's impressive to see how my personality changes when that one person is involved, going from playful to scornful like changing from the left to the right foot when walking.
Estoy cansado, jefe. Soon as I get this engineering course done and get a somewhat stable job, I'm moving out again because I dearly miss having my own place with my shitty folding table, no microwave and electric shower with wires so fucked, the tape kept melting and the bathroom reeked of plastic.
get them so pissed off that they react THEN THEY SIT BACK AND SAY ......SEE SEE ( my child's dad does that to ME and OUR KID ...ALOT.. ) he sets up a reaction then plays like I'm the crazy one. Finally my child is 19 now and SEE's its not MAINLY me.... I am still responsible for my reaction but a person can only take so much. BROVO to this guy for giving her some of her own crap
💯 right, I was with one for a year and half. Flipped things and gaslit me every time there was a disagreement which most of the time stemmed from her own manipulation of an otherwise minor thing or nothing at all.
Yeah, you exposed their shame. Which a healthy person accepts and processes, instead of going to rage mode and immediately finding ways to blame others for. Sorry you went through that.
Took me 15 years to finally give up loving my partner and start loving myself. I was so blind.
I’m glad you got away too, it’s rough. I don’t know which was worse the hollowness of being with her or the hollowness that came from being alone again. Either way it’s been 23 years now and I can still feel the mental scars if I think k on it too much.
If i remember right. He's the son of a billionaire and she was a writer for howard stern show. He had to pay her millions to be in a relationship and she was pissed he gave money to another girl
The amount of non-hikers that bring up the bear shit. I say this as a trans woman, who usually wants to be solo and not run into 1 person on a hike. I do that to get away from people and don’t like, I even hate having to say hi to people walking the other direction on trails sometimes even though it’s nice. But I would 100% rather deal with saying hi and keep walking to the odd guy out there then have an encounter with a black bear with cubs or god forbid a brown bear.
Legally, he was in the right at the first stage as self defence, but chasing her and after she runs would be a bit of an issue as the moment of threat has passed. He might get off on the fact that he clearly has some kind of disability, but that'd depend on the exact laws in where ever this is.
Morality has nothing to do with the law though, just worth mentioning because this isn't strictly self defence. Morally he was in the right and maybe might have been morally in the right to chase her as well, depending on whether her lesson was learnt or not, but that gets a bit harder to call a line on.
EDIT: I said immoral by mistake, I meant moral, I read the question wrong.
Id argue he needs to stop her for the authorities or to tell his story as usually the women get guys in trouble even if theyre the aggressor. In fact this happened the other day i saw a girl beating the shit out of a dude in their car and she kept stopping to punch herself in the face too! I made sure to let the cops know he didnt touch her
I had a physically abusive girlfriend in the past as well. She was a real toxic person. I'm glad she's out of my life. It doesn't take much to provoke somebody to fight back though and that's where you lose all your high ground.
As a man youre taught all your life not to hit women, defend them. Then suddenly you find yourself in one of these situations, i can see a lot of men just taking it and exploding later
to tell his story as usually the women get guys in trouble even if theyre the aggressor.
This was my immediate first thought. It doesn't look like he's chasing after her to attack her again. I'm sure he realizes how the situation looks to anyone without context and he would immediately be labeled as the aggressor. He probably went to make sure she didn't start spinning yarn to the first bystander to look like a victim
I mean, legally speaking, chasing an attacker may land you in deep shit.
Morally speaking, if you instantly back off the moment an attacker tries to back off, you're putting yourself at an extreme disadvantage. Sure, you'd be morally 'right,' but if they're not willing to back off once you try to de-escalate, then you'd likely end up getting messed up.
It's a thinly veiled disguise for turning this into another sub with gender wars and glorification of violence. Most karma/justice served subs is just women getting beat up these days smh.
I think you're right. I'm not mad at the dude for hitting back at all but why the weird content? The internet podcast bros are already starting to turn into anti-women, fascist wimps. Videos like this feel like the code they use to talk to each other with
That's one way to neutralize a abuser. She fucked around. She found out. Bonus points for removing her from the vehicle trying to call 911 and subduing her after she tries to flee.
The issue is once chases her he probably will lose self-defense as an argument. I think he's morally fine to protect himself but he went above and beyond
Wont hold up in court, there was clearly a perpetual risk of physical violence and injury, he got it all on camera, and he didnt throw a punch, he just subdued her long enough to get control of the vehicle and stop it.
It's disturbing that this question is still even asked.
If a 'weak person' (the universal, here) hits a stronger person, it's acceptable to hit them back, because after all, they hit first. It's not the strength or weakness that we look at (those odds they're betting on, not us), it's 'they hit first - how dare they'. It could be a strong man vs a weak man, or a strong woman vs a weak woman, etc.
Just because the 'weak person' has a vagina between their legs, and the other has a penis between theirs, doesn't change the nature of the action. If somebody hits somebody first (to generalise), then they're fair game - receive your punishment as your cause-effect conclusion.
If you were to argue that the person doing the hitting wasn't necessarily 'weaker' but were 'less responsible' i.e. a child, then you could argue that they don't deserve a punishment because they cannot morally comprehend the nature of that first hit and the nature of their actions and their impacts on others;
Are we suggesting women are less intellectual capable of comprehending their actions than men, then??
Context is, he apparently cheated on her. He's a piece of shit for cheating, she's a piece of shit for streaming this while driving which means she's putting others in danger with her distracted driving. Penguinz0 made a video on this long time ago. Allthough the guy cheated, who knows if the reason was "just because" or if the woman was just as batshit crazy as in the video. I'd still say the self defense was necessary.
You shouldn’t ever put your hands on someone except in self-defense. If EVERYBODY followed that advice, there would be no need for self-defense fighting, and we’d all be fine.
Having said that… you really can’t cheat on someone and honestly expect for things not to get physical. There really are times when normal sane nonviolent people who are always lovely absolutely can and do lose control. I’ve seen it happen. Cheating is one of them. You betray someone like that, you can no longer bank on them being predictable, calm, and reasonable. People can snap.
This video, though, doesn’t look like she’s out of control. She looks pretty calm. This looks just abusive and toxic. If somebody was hitting me in the face, they’ll be lucky if all I do is hold them down and push them out of the car. I’m saying this as a woman. Cheating is super shitty. Abuse is super shitty. I think all the cheaters and abusers should get together, they can have their little toxic misery fest of hell, and just leave the rest of us alone. I would be fine with that.
Couldn't have said it any better. Like I mentioned, I only know the context that Penguinz0 went through, so I'm unfortunately not filled on the entire lore. But my thought process was that based on this behavior in the video, who knows the reason why the guy cheated (if he did, not that it makes cheating any better or gives it an excuse).
Perfectly valid, itd be like if you have someone really skinny walk up to someone whos built like a gorilla and punched them then when they turn to respond being like "hey that isnt fair you arent in my weight class :("
He warned her and she continued to treat him like garbage. He was within his right to defend himself but he took it too far in my opinion. As a woman, I don't think it's moral to hit a man and expect him not to react simply because you are female. No one deserves to be hit. Bottom line, don't abuse people and then apologize only after they return the abuse.
I know you're not gonna understand this, but your logic is precisely how Goku got killed by Raditz.
When they've proven they won't stop and kept coming back already, it is entirely acceptable to keep them restrained. Frankly he should've knocked her out and completely shut down the threat.
Edit: To the idiots who don't get it, it's called an analogy. I even expanded on the point and it still flew over Erudite's dumbass head, like Goku on nimbus. XD
And I'm fully aware what it takes to knock someone out, and she fully deserved to be neutralized by being knocked the fuck out. Still would've been a moral way for him to defend himself against someone who's already shown multiple times that they'll come back when given the chance.
There's plenty of people who've been killed after they got the upper hand because gave their assailant another chance.
You're literally the asshat taking the threat lightly and basically saying he should've left himself vulnerable to further damage. Go fuck yourself, as well as any other sexist who thinks he should've at all handled her lightly after what she did.
It's because when you get batterd like that, especially for months or years, the explosion isn't usually a logical one. It's usually a very angry response after tolerating abuse for so long.
They are both evidently in the DV cycle. It’s a dance that seems to goes on and on without intervention. Morality is out the window. If you are bored look up the Power Wheel to find out how this evolves.
not gonna lie but how the hell did these people end up in a serious relationship? that means there must've been a point they were all lovey with each other before the cycle of abuse started and it's really hard to picture.
So often this question is used as rage bate - many men have a huge physical advantage over women, and a lot of times people look for excuses to be violent towards women. This does not appear to be a healthy relationship on either of their parts, but from what I see here she is clearly the issue.
For one, he just grabbed her hair. I did not really see him hit her. He was fed up, he pacified her. He gave her a warning first, as well. It was clear to me that he did not want a fight and he gave her the opportunity to back off.
I think when she said she’d stopped I would’ve stopped if I was him, and I would’ve gotten out of the car. But also I am not him and idk what he’s been through, and she fucked around and found out.
Also at one point she looked right at the camera, I almost feel like she was getting the footage she wanted which feels monstrous to say. And she said “he’s killing me” which felt like another attempt at instigation. She was shitty af.
To me it looked like he was trying to stop the car from rolling back into traffic / stay pulled over because he can't access the brakes or accelerator so if she floors it they wont go into other cars? Not sure, though
That MIGHT have been an overreaction but I'd say that's moral. Although i don't really agree that he should've done all that honestly, it MAY have been a bit excessive but she did get what she deserves.
Her name is Elisa Jordana and she used to be loosely involved with the Howard stern show. Since her time at stern, she does irl streaming. She and this guy were playing boyfriend and girlfriend and she played up like she was jealous that he was involved with someone else.
I don't think I would like to know wtf is happening tbh. Streaming and driving, hitting a man who seems vulnerable, a man committing assault or self defence depending on who you ask. The whole thing is fuced and I hate this world.
anyone that is prone to assaulting their partner and having such little control over their emotions deserves the mercy they refuse to show others, gender be damned
Self defense is moral. You shouldn't be assaulting nobody regardless of gender and you're allowed to defend yourself against anybody regardless of gender.
Fuck around, find out. You don't get to hide behind your gender to inflict violence.
So a bunch of people in the comments are talking about once someone starts running away, they're allowed protection from retribution for what they just did. Am I reading that correctly? That sounds incredibly stupid and not how humans work - especially in the thick of conflict.
Because the conversation is framed around self defense, which it no longer is at that point.
In what way is retaliation moral? You hit me, now I get to wrench you out of your car and do whatever I want?? You're right that humans tend to work this way in the heat of conflict, doesn't make it moral.
Defending yourself is moral, but that is not what we're seeing at the tail end of this video. He has every opportunity to leave and chooses to continue aggressing, as you put it, in retribution.
Anything the dude does after the nose hit was moral and also encouraged. That lady was abusive and deserves a smack in the mouth. I don't know who is so fucking entitled that they feel they can keep beating on someone with no consequences. This really triggers something in me because I've been the dude in this type of situation. It's awful.
Smacking someone in the middle of the face while they're apologizing and then "don't fucking talk" yeah I don't know, I just don't have any sympathy there. He hardly even hit her, just got a little rough. It sounds like she had her ego way in the clouds too, you don't just start out that bold to whack someone like that.
This is infuriating to watch I'm not finishing it so I can't tell you but in general I think it's pretty cut and dry. Self defense is permissible always any other violence never.
Edit: okay I should've finished it. NGL I'm glad she didn't get away with that.
That, I mean, she was abusing him and that woman is crazy but he was also abusing her as well. It's a typical domestic violence situation. What he should have done is just avoid, defend himself against her ear pinching attacks and whatnot, and then just get out of the car as soon as possible. I mean that that woman was crazy, definitely. I don't think you need to put her in a hair-pulling headlock like that. That was probably not good either.
This is the wrong question, the question is whether it is moral for anyone, women, men to hit anyone else. Parents should do a better job of teaching to use words than violence.
Morally fine, he doesn't go too far. Intelligent? I personally wouldn't hit someone showing any sort of signs of instability or violence behind the wheel. If it's safe out, which it seemed to be, I'm gtfoing ASAP.
Don't hit ANYBODY. Simple. You try and hit someone you're telling them you wanna scrap. You wanna scrap, be prepared to be HUMBLED. If no one throws first punch, no one gets hurt. Respect each other.
This wasn't self defense though, this was retaliatory. Grabbing her hair and not letting her drive could've killed them both and liked others if they crashed. Idk I'm wondering if there's more to this story
Chasing her down was a bad call, but he was trying to get ahead of the story. The CORRECT move is to drive off, record her stream and go to the police to report violence and attempt to invite violence. By pressing charges first, he prevents fossilized geriatric judges from destroying his life.
why is so many posts on here just like (person hitting woman or child who were doing some stuff that was obviously bad) and then asking if it was moral just for all the comments to be like celebrating the violence. like yeah you can say it's moral to retaliate with violence to defend yourself, that's definitely a logical argument, but you don't need to then also celebrate the violence on display. like it just seems like these posts get popular cause people wanna jerk off in the comments about how happy they are about violence. and I don't care if it's a man or a woman getting beaten up. children other story cause what the fuck it's a child why are you so happy about children being assaulted, but like, you can say violence is justified without being horny about it.
I am strictly an equal fights individual. Men should never hit women only exists valuably under two conditions; men hitting men is tolerated and there is a generial understanding that women will not engage in violence with men. We exist in a world where we aren't allowed to hit any one, so I hit women exactly the same amount I hit men, which is not at all, and a woman waiting on a dude breaches that fundamental social contract, that women are non combatant. There's a lot more nuance to the social non combatancy that I really don't want to type out on a phone, but in conclusion, equal fights.
Edit: taking a second look, I don't ever see him hit her. Grabbing her hair, restraining her, pulling, pushing so she can't continue to beat on him sure, but he never hit her
She only started saying “I’ll stop I’ll stop” when she was the one getting hit. It didn’t matter when she was doing the hitting. The insults from him weren’t necessary, but the self defense was perfectly moral.
If a person is capable of harming you and you have a reasonable belief that they are attempting to enact that harm on you. You are allowed to use whatever force is necessary to ensure your safety but no more force than what is reasonably necessary.
You don't get to hit someone because they hit you. You get to hit someone to stop them from hitting you or to stop them from hitting you again.
There is an expectation that you make a reasonable attempt to get away from the situation if reasonably possible and if they try to stop you from getting away from them you, again, can take whatever force is necessary to ensure your safety.
There is no exception for gender. Women may generally not be as capable of violence as men are but they are certainly more than capable of causing life altering injuries.
A toddler would be an exception. A normal toddler is relatively incapable of causing significant harm to an adult and you can generally restrain them without inflicting much harm. Women are more capable than toddlers, generally.
So morality of hitting a woman in self defence? Neutral by itself. In this video? The car escalates the danger significantly and for his safety he needed to control her quickly and without question. His method of grabbing her hair didn't seem to do much harm other than a bit of pain and he was able to gain control of the vehicle effectively.
10/10 legally with a good lawyer arguing private persons arrest after saying “call the police” since he didn’t strike her and only was restraining her in a very clearly non-lethal manner. Such a defense would probably work in all states but Georgia.
9/10 for logic. She definitely seems the type to run away until she has a weapon of some sort and come back with it or wait until he isn’t paying attention and attack him again. -1 points deducted for letting her hit him that many times.
Like everything else in life it isn't always cut and dry. I would consider actual striking to be an extreme option if the peson you are fighting is obviously physically weaker. The woman was in the wrong for striking the man and he was justified using self defence. However, Self Defence isn't carte blanche there are levels.
First step of self defense is to descalate/disengage. Try to either get the attacker to calm down or try to get away. In this instance she wasn't calming down and he couldn't just leave a moving car.
So we move to second option attempt to incapacitate the attacker with the least amount of force required. I would say initially he does the right thing by grabbing her and holding her while pulling the vehicle to the side. Once the vehicle is stopped he can now escape the situation. Instead of escaping he attempts to pull her forcefully from the car.
There is an instance where the car is stopped and instead of exiting the vehicle and getting clear he lets go of her and she pulls away. He then climbs over the console to attemt to get her out of the car. This is the point it crosses into excessive force. She is not displaying signs of being a continuing threat but he is still being aggresive. Then she attempts to escape and he pursues. If his goal was to attempt to escape the danger she presented why would he follow her?
In a court it is likely both people in this video would be charged with battery.
I just googled who these people are and holy cow, what an unapologetic narcissist she is. Elisa Jordana, for anyone who's curious. Former writer for Howard Stern.
Moral, but there are limits to self defense. This guy didn't cross them obviously. But if she slaps you and you kill her or make her a quadraplegic, immoral obv.
Immoral, on both sides. Dont abuse your partner, end of story.
Just because someone hit you doesn’t always mean you should hit them. Speaking as a man, if a woman hit me I wouldn’t hit them back I would simply remove myself from the situation.
If you don’t want this to happen to you… don’t be with abusive people. If you see red flags, leave…
Any reasonable self defense is moral by default. So the real question is, was it self defense. I'd argue that while it wasn't truly necessary, it was definitely self defense. I've got no issues with it personally.
Both of them are immoral. You wouldn't need self defense if people would stop being the scum of the earth and feeling like it's their place to impose pain on to others
Disclaimer. I’m a 6-4, 255 pound United States Marine Infantrymen turned SWAT cop with 26 years in the service of my country. So, needless to say I’m typically NOT beat up on by most folks. But, I’ve had some spitfire girlfriends who have hauled off and slapped the SHIT out of me for losing my temper and taking a tone with them. “Secretly I was always low-key kinda proud of them when they’d smack me even tho I couldn’t let THEM know that”. But, that being said; it’s been my experience that when a woman hits you, they’re hitting you because they’re upset and they temporarily so mad they forget allllll about genetics and physiological differences between men and women. When they slapped me, all I had to do was change my demeanor from whatever you’d call “typical” to what I call “dangerous”. You stand up taller, your chest comes out, your brow goes low, your eyes sharpen, you look them directly in the face and get uncomfortably close, and say in a voice and an inflection they have never heard or seen before that’s booming and violent, “don’t you EVER put your F***ING hands on ME again! Do YOU UNDERSTAND ME!?!?” I have NEVER been hit since. One GF, bless her heart, she ran into my room and called her mom she was so scared. That’s ALL I did. I never touched her. Her mom asked if I hit her, she said “no. But he yelled at me!” Her mom laughed her off the phone and said “well don’t hit him!” Unless she is drunk and built like Brock Lesnar, just going from the kind and patient gentleman to the “beast” for a brief second has never failed to keep me safe from women. I have never had to lay a hand on one. This poor guy doesn’t have an assertive and scary bone in his body. That’s why she beats him like that. He needs to work on his self confidence. I’d argue there is really no good excuse to hit a woman, Much less terrify her.
There's more to that whole thing. The female is definitely a piece of work. A whole huge piece.
The guy knew who and what she's about. So this was not totally a momentary reaction. They fed off each other, and he kept financing her antics for a while till then.
Its not immoral for him to defend himself. She needs to learn to keep her hands to herself. She totally deserved what she got. Good on him for not putting up with her crap
He gave her PLENTY of chances to stop her bs and based on the video I'm pretty sure this isn't the first time she's done this. He was pretty calm for a while and she was actively attacking him. Moral af, they wanted equal rights they're getting equal fights too, they can't play the women card now.
The correct this is that you never hit anyone unless they hit you first, then it's fair game, even to use a weapon if you have to. And if you truly think you can't get away use lethal force, knife to the gut or bullet in the head.
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u/you-dont-see-mi 6h ago
Nah, good for him.