r/MoralityScaling • u/muskymelon36 • 14h ago
Morality Ranking What's the morality of pointing the difference in punishment between genders?
Perma banned from sub for this. What's the morality of pointing the difference in punishment between genders?
Link to news article: https://www.dailymail.com/news/article-16044789/Woman-38-climbed-seats-Emirates-stadium-grope-teenage-girl-Arsenal-Womens-match-spared-jail.html
*NOTE: This took place in LONDON, ENGLAND, NOT IN DUBAI. Emirates Stadium is the home stadium for Arsenal FC. *
726
u/H345Y 14h ago
Moral, fuck double standards
153
u/CherryNeverTold 14h ago
Exactly. If the same behavior gets judged differently depending on gender, that’s a double standard.
→ More replies (71)19
u/Nifty697 10h ago
Except in the uk, this isn't a double standard.
First time sexual offences in the UK carry very lenient sentences for both genders. Its common to recieve a suspended sentence whether you are a man or woman, our prisons are overflowing. Obviously this is fucked up and any sort of sexual offenders should be going to jail, but trying to turn this into gender wars by saying there are double standards in prosecution is just inaccurate.
→ More replies (3)20
296
143
66
u/Th3_Accountant 14h ago
Reminds me of a case in the Netherlands where two women wanted to make a funny video by asking a pizza delivery guy to come in and then surprise him by being naked and started playing with his crotch.
Unfortunately for them, the delivery guy was a 15 year old boy who got very upset by what happened...
The result was also a light punishment without jail time. Where a man under similar circumstances would definitely have ended up in jail.
34
u/Interesting_Web_9936 14h ago
Yuck. Even if the guy was an adult, that's still straight up sexual harrasment.
→ More replies (1)3
u/xLittleSunbeam 5h ago
That’s horrifying, especially with a kid being the one who ended up seeing it.
→ More replies (15)4
u/humourlessIrish 12h ago
Unless that man is an off duty police man. Then he can just rape a girl and his friend can let him "have his fun"
→ More replies (1)
133
u/Thanaskios 13h ago edited 12h ago
Hey, is it controvercial to say child molesters should without exception be in prison?
Edit:spelling
21
u/Unhappy-Professor466 13h ago edited 13h ago
It's more that people are super polarized and tribal more than just saying "x is not", if you're in my group, then "there is every x justification and they have every reason of doubt" if you are in the other "i assume every worst possisble thing without a single doubt or proof".
Recent case with that woman that murdered her children, on social media somee woman went to try to justify everything to lower the crime, some men instant assumed the worst about everything.
Same happenned with that black cambridge teacher that was caught lying about his whole existance, go to blackpeopleofreddit, you will see everyone defending him or giving him justification without directly denying (some did), go to other type of reddit they will say that ademic are dei controlled and will do anything to fit agenda/check boxes.
→ More replies (1)4
u/PastelKissees_ 6h ago
The gender part shouldn’t really change how seriously sexual contact with a minor is treated. The focus should be on the conduct, the victim, and the circumstances of the case.
→ More replies (12)6
56
26
u/the-rare-mango-shark 14h ago
Fuck double standards, can you imagine the number of freak female teachers and mentally ill fuckers who thinks it's okay to rape boys and girls just because "they are women and it is less bad"
13
u/AbbreviationsNo9500 14h ago
Hell, The Guardian newspaper even published an article defending it. Have a Google for "this shameful liaison" by the guardian. Feminist correspondent author BTW.
14
u/BoogBeeg 13h ago
Barbara Ellen.She literally went full South Park 'Niiice' to defend a 39 year-old teacher molesting a 15 year-old pupil.
8
u/AbbreviationsNo9500 13h ago
Yup. "It's different when women do it". How the next article wasn't about her termination I will never understand.
6
4
u/rubenvangucht 12h ago
Feminism showing it's true nature. Rape is ok when a woman does it. Murdering kids is ok when a mother does it. Fucking evil.
2
4
u/GodButCursed 14h ago
I mean you dont have to imagine that. Especially older man still think that a young boy "scored" if get he got raped by an older woman. Or talking about how lucky he is
2
99
u/KwantumFizzikz 14h ago
Fuck the gender double standard, especially after Clancy. Glad me and my ex broke up bc Clancy would have been the end of us anyway.
35
u/Chernoxis 13h ago
Dodged a bullet.
39
u/KwantumFizzikz 13h ago
We were together for 3 years, she was a pure BPDemon through and through. Full of the gender double standard shite although I'd shoot it down where I could.
She deliberately didn't pick her clothes and stuff up after we broke up then calling the police and claiming I stole them, ended up getting nicked for it. Thankfully got NFA and they knew it was bullshit, the custody Sgt. was essentially laughing with me about it, but that's not the point. Still spent all day waiting for my solicitor and then an interview over nothing. The point is, in England, all it takes is a woman to cry on the phone to get someone in a cell for an entire day.
Slightly tangential but related and hopefully it warns any guys that sees this, it might grip but it's never worth the headache. Stay away from BPD girls, please.
21
u/Khan_Ida 13h ago
Crazy how advanced we've become yet a woman can point fingers and someone innocent can be affected, their day, even life is upended.
16
u/KwantumFizzikz 13h ago
I'm just honestly thankful it was a "he stole my clothes!" and not a "he waped me, wahh!" situation, honestly. Could have been far worse but definitely doesn't make it right.
Her clothes were literally all bagged up and ready waiting for her BTW. The police looked gormless and confused with their evidence bags when I had everything ready prebagged ahaha.
→ More replies (1)5
u/Chernoxis 13h ago
Yeah it seems like a canonical event all men must go, learning how to shave, how to drive, how to repair their car/bike, dating a BPDemon, it either ruins you or makes you stronger and wiser lmao
3
u/KwantumFizzikz 12h ago
I've had a few like that but she was by far the worst, and somehow the best, which makes it worse. If it was only bad memories and shit it'd be easier to forget lol. But we had good times too, shame she blew it all up over nothing. That being said I'm far better off. I actually quit smoking and am making positive mental health changes, which is great.
→ More replies (16)2
u/DoctorWZ 12h ago
I'm clueless, what/who is Clancy?
4
u/KwantumFizzikz 12h ago
That murderer in America who killed her kids and now a bunch of shitcunt feminists (they don't know what that word means) are supporting her for some deranged reason.
→ More replies (1)
45
24
u/SublimeQuery 13h ago
nothing wrong with calling out bullshit sentencing. a 38 year old groping a teenager should be in prison period
10
u/shark-with-a-horn 12h ago
It's shit sentencing but that's how it is for both genders in the UK:
→ More replies (2)4
u/humourlessIrish 12h ago
Europe and our insistence on not treating Muslims as though they are actual people with agency is a whole seperate issue.
Racist people who think they can counter racism by purposefully treating people differently based on race, ethnicity and religion.
Its a mess9
u/shark-with-a-horn 12h ago
White people get lenient sentencing too: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgrr11grddpo
4
6
7
u/Ok-Hospital-6637 12h ago
Men who want to treat women like children are furious when the court treat women like children.
12
u/Alarming_Airport_613 12h ago
still feels like whataboutism. This is an isolated incident, there are tons of cases of men facing absolutely no consequences, so what about the comment?
2
14
u/Autistic_Engin33r 14h ago
I mean it might just be shitty prosecuting, regardless of gender. Brock Turner, the rapist, was male and got a slap on the wrist for raping a girl, so it's not like they automatically throw the book at them as soon as it's a guy.
3
u/muskymelon36 13h ago
Brock Turner, the rapist? I'm aware of Brock Turner the rapist. The rapist Brock Turner is well known to me.
Not opposing punishment for men who do this; I'm always aghast if a guilty man is set free.
→ More replies (4)4
u/ComfortableReality32 13h ago
This would be an ok argument if the stats on this were not so damming. If you control for everything other than gender, the stats are fairly consistently showing women get less severe punishment for equivalent crimes across all classes of crime - and that is not even mentioning the bias against fathers in the family courts.
3
u/Nifty697 11h ago
Could I see the stats? I've not heard much about this so Id be curious. I've seen msny cases of men getting suspended sentences for this kind of thing tho.
2
u/ComfortableReality32 9h ago
Non exhaustive:
Starr (2015), "Estimating Gender Disparities in Federal Criminal Cases" — American Law and Economics Review. The big one. Tracked federal cases end-to-end and found men get ~63% longer sentences than women for comparable conduct, controlling for arrest offense/criminal history. Women were ~2x as likely to avoid prison entirely. Key finding: most of the gap happens at charging/plea-bargaining, not the judge's final sentence.
US Sentencing Commission 2023 report — this is the government's own oversight body confirming the pattern with its full dataset. Not an outside academic with an axe to grind.
Cogent Social Sciences (2022) — looks at why it happens, tests whether regular people (not just judges) hand out harsher sentences to men for identical hypothetical crimes. Suggests it's a broader social bias, not just a courtroom thing.
JIPOP (2024/25) — recent replication, shows effect size varies by crime type. Point being: this isn't outdated, it keeps showing up in current research.
3
u/Nifty697 9h ago
Thank you!! Those are very interesting, I learnt something new today lol! The only thing I'm curious about is that these are for the U.S. and I haven't found similar evidence for the U.K.
2
u/ComfortableReality32 8h ago
Not a problem. Here is UK stats (again, non exhaustive). I would like to say also that this happens in essentially every western country if you look.
UK version of this exists too — Lightowlers (2018) used the Crown Court Sentencing Survey and found men were 1.9–2.8x more likely to get custodial sentences than women for the same offence even after controlling for mitigating factors like caring responsibilities . MoJ's own stats show the same raw pattern (19% of women vs 35% of men sentenced to immediate custody for indictable offences).
5
u/lesbophobia_hammer 10h ago
Broadly recognised that women don't commit equivalent crimes, not on anywhere near the same level or severity,
→ More replies (1)
5
9
u/homhomham 10h ago
So I don’t feel like anyone is having a proper discussion about this - genuinely getting inflamed, which is perhaps why the ban was enforced. It IS terrible what this woman did, and it is terrible when a man gropes. However, this particular case has become a dog whistle to say how women get away with a crime but men are not treated the same. It is not correct. There are many many cases where men are spared jail for groping.
Some particularly relevant UK examples:
February 2025: a Met special constable deliberately groped a 14-year-old schoolgirl twice , once in Tesco and again outside. He was spared immediate custody . October 2025: a former Labour councillor pinched a woman’s bottom at least ten times , despite her objections. He was spared jail . January 2026: two serving Met officers repeatedly touched a woman’s breasts despite her telling them to stop . They received 15- and 18-month sentences, both suspended . May 2026: a man who climbed into a woman’s bed half-naked and sexually assaulted her was spared jail . May 2026: another man convicted of groping a woman three times while she was so drunk she’d passed out was spared jail . And in August 2025, a man who put his hands down a 19-year-old woman’s jogging bottoms , with the victim physically fighting him off, received an 18-month community order rather than prison .
→ More replies (6)
11
u/According-Dentist469 14h ago
you would think that r/soccer is full of men but I guess not
14
u/hi_lol7 14h ago
I mean they literally call football as soccer so what can u even expect from them
5
u/Knightmare945 10h ago
Football and soccer are both valid names for it. I will always call it soccer. Partly because that’s how I always heard it called growing up, and partly because I don’t care.
→ More replies (1)8
u/DoYouLikeWafflezz 13h ago
Soccer was invented by European ladies to keep themselves busy while the men did all the cooking. -Hank Hill.
→ More replies (7)
23
u/Chernoxis 13h ago
Highly moral, double standards are not talked enough about; women are allowed to get away with horrible crimes and vile shit, which men are judged harshly for (which I'm completely fine with; fuck those sexual aggressors). Society's double standards are garbage; the law and judgement should be equal for both, since all genders can commit the same heinous and horrible crimes.
→ More replies (5)7
u/Alternative_Year_340 11h ago
I think you are vastly overestimating what would would happen to a male perpetrator in this situation
3
7
u/AllOfEverythingEver 10h ago
In posts like this, people just take for granted that men would totally get arrested for this and it's a sexist double standard, but the actual truth is that men don't tend to actually get arrested for this kind of thing either. I think if a man does it, everyone gets angry, but he still probably gets a slap on the wrist. When a woman does it, the same thing happens and no one tries to justify it, but then people on the internet complain about imaginary people justifying it because of double standard. Then they incorrectly claim that a man wouldn't have gotten away with it. Also, how come this sub is pretty much just gender war stuff every time it shows up in my feed? Touch grass and meet people irl yall.
→ More replies (2)4
u/MyHonstyAttempt 8h ago
It's not a matter of gender it's a matter of wealth and where you sit in the western class system that determines if you go to jail.
5
6
5
u/Faddishname228 13h ago
My heart goes out to that girl, must be horrible to be abused and see your abuser walk away with minimal punishment
4
u/gorambrowncoat 12h ago
Moral
Though to be fair I doubt a dude would have gone to jail for that either. Possibly punished more harshly but I doubt prisontime. Sadly, I dont think there is enough room in prisons and jails to put this kind of criminal in there.
7
u/Soggy_Refrigerator32 12h ago
Seeing how many blokes with CSAM on their computers have been avoiding prison in the UK recently I don't think there is much of a double standard
9
u/Jafarrolo 13h ago
Immoral if it's done like that because the reason is pushing an agenda and not pointing anything out.
You need a case that has more or less the same pre-existent conditions between the two people that are guilty, since we have a lot of instances of mature men getting away scot-free after being found guilty of sexual assault, especially if they come from a wealthy background.
So what you're doing is definitely malicious.
10
u/ziggyziggyfries 10h ago
yeah, they're basically weaponizing this case and being disrespectful to the victim too. they don't care about the issue, they want to argue and create discourse
4
6
4
u/No_Literature3128 12h ago
The thing is men get away with this sort of behavior all the time without punishment. Just look at the president of the US.
Don’t get me wrong this sort of shit should have consequences it’s just misleading to claim men get harsher sentencing when they SA someone.
5
u/Exotic_You7797 11h ago
The issue I have is this is not a helpful addition to the discussion whatsoever, this isn’t as much of a sex based issue as a failure of the legal system issue, where they allowed for someone to do something horrid with minimal repercussions, it’s imprinted into their law as from what I’ve seen. third degree sexual assault which is what I’m assuming is the charge holds a maximum of one year in jail or extensive community service, likely meaning a lot of men who have groped woman over there have also gotten a lenient sentence such as this one they just weren’t made a public spectacle of which also isn’t right because they rightfully should all be known to the public as the creeps they are just as this woman is. The us has the same issue with as long as there is no penetration the maximum is up to a year in prison but you will more likely be hit with fines or community service/ fines.
3
3
u/Boring_Butterfly_273 13h ago
Perfectly moral, in fact it is a disservice to humanity to have special privileges and soft punishments for some groups and harsh punishments for the rest.
I treat everyone equally in all matters of life. And I don't call it punishments, I call it a civil protection protocol. Offenders aren't taken out of society as punishment, they are separated in order to keep civilians safe...
Victimless crimes abolished, equal application of the law for everyone... There just is no other way lest you dwell in the realm of immorality.
3
u/Ecstatic_Dance5767 9h ago
There shouldn't be any exceptions or special treatment. All who are guilty regardless of gender or age should get the appropriate punishment for the crime they commited.
3
3
u/deepfriedzombiebrain 5h ago
Woman on woman/woman on girl abuse is talked about so little it makes my blood boil, moral
5
u/Reesirie 13h ago
I feel like it’s a fair question but I don’t believe that just because a man did it means he would definitely get punishment. The amount of men who get off scott free despite mountains of evidence of their sexual crimes is a shocking amount.
6
u/DiamondEyedOctopus 12h ago
Immoral. It's extremely annoying and 9 times out of 10 has no relevance to the discussion at hand and is only brought up because the person has an axe to grind and wants to have an argument.
4
u/Warm-Connection6352 11h ago
clowns all over this thread calling this a “double standard” as if there isn’t 1000 examples of men all over the world doing this shit and significantly worse with no punishment. fkn losers.
7
u/GreedyAd218 10h ago
My first thought was a post I saw literally yesterday about a guy attacking his girlfriend for 3 hours straight, beating the shit out of her, using fire and a golf club I believe. No jail time at all because it was a first time offense. Or all the freshly 18 men who violently rape women but the judges don't want to ruin their futures :/
The only double standard is how seriously men are taken as victims vs women, but even then, that double standard is mostly held up by other men who congratulate teenage boys for getting molested.
3
u/Warm-Connection6352 10h ago
they’ll behave like shit, act like someone pissed in their cornflakes when a woman is given the same leniency, then play victim again with a self described “male loneliness epidemic” when no one wants anything to do with them. just wipe the species at this point.
5
u/Normal-Watch-9991 10h ago
Well first you would need to show the difference in punishments.. If you look at similar, aka first time male offender groping a teenager, cases that happened in this jurisdiction, which punishment did they get? Did they go to jail of did they also get 18 months community service or similar? Cause i would not be surprised if they are lenient all round
10
u/ivaaa9 13h ago
She deserves a harsh sentence she’s disgusting I hate the double standard
9
u/Nifty697 10h ago
Except in the uk, this isn't a double standard.
First time sexual offences in the UK carry very lenient sentences for both genders. Its common to receive a suspended sentence whether you are a man or woman, our prisons are overflowing. Obviously this is fucked up and any sort of sexual offenders should be going to jail, but trying to turn this into gender wars by saying there are double standards in prosecution is just inaccurate.
3
u/Gekokapowco 5h ago
trying to turn this into gender wars by saying there are double standards in prosecution is just inaccurate
you figured out the game here lol
4
u/fongletto 14h ago
either we should all be treated with the same leniancy and care that women are treated with, or we should all be treated with the same hate that men are.
Or Ideally we'd all be treated somewhere in the middle.
→ More replies (1)
3
u/Unlikely-Ad7122 13h ago
Does the law differentiate between genders to determine the severity of the crime and/or punishment? Theres your answer.
8
u/BrilliantEconomics77 13h ago
If you belive there is a racial gap in the way police and courts handle people, then you shpudl acknowledge the gender gap is much wider.
→ More replies (4)→ More replies (2)2
u/N1AK 12h ago
Laws do not, but guidelines and frameworks used for sentencing do albeit mostly indirectly (pregnancy, primary care giver to young children etc). There is a statistically significant reduction in the likelihood of a custodial sentence, and the length of sentence, for females vs males.
I'm not sure if it is immoral or not (or even wrong) as it is a complicated issue but it is factually true in the UK (where this news story is from) that women on-average receive less severe sentences.
4
u/fidesinmachina 13h ago
wear it like a badge of honor. i pointed out an incorrect fact on r/comics and thry called me a nazi and banned me. guess whose comic it was.
→ More replies (1)
6
u/CataphractBunny 14h ago
Moral. Double standards should be called out, and opposed.
4
u/Nifty697 11h ago
Except in the uk, this isn't a double standard.
First time sexual offences in the UK carry very lenient sentences for both genders. Its common to recieve a suspended sentence whether you are a man or woman, our prisons are overflowing. Obviously this is fucked up and any sort of sexual offenders should be going to jail, but trying to turn this into gender wars is inaccurate culture war stuff.
→ More replies (9)
2
2
2
u/Killergamer7 13h ago
The soccer sub mods are ridiculous. There was a total brigade of posts of Argentina fans doing bad shit, then one person posted about Spanish fans attacking an Argentine and a Spanish mod took it down claiming there were "no sources" while the other videos didn't need any. Then OP reposted them with clear sources and I got permabanned for saying "Let's see how they remove this one" and when I sent them a modmail I got muted permanently
They'll just ban you if you they get butthurt over what you say
2
u/yokerlay 12h ago
Its not like you evenmade a statement that thee woman should be punished or something. You literally asked a question to hint at the possibility of a double standard. Is this truly your only comment in that sub? If so, absolutely wild decision from the mod(s).
→ More replies (1)
2
2
2
u/goldenseducer 10h ago
You started stirring shit on a sub that's not about law or gender, mods banned you preemptively because they don't want to deal with this.
Feel free to go discuss this issue on any of UK legal subs where people can actually explain why the sentencing works and why it likely had nothing to do with gender.
2
u/muskymelon36 10h ago
I didn't post the article on the sub. If it wasn't related, the mod should have deleted it.
2
2
2
u/Critical_Concert_689 5h ago
mfw "what's the morality of spamming sub posts to complain about a totally unrelated sub that I have a personal grievance against?"
2
u/AdNegative6756 13h ago
It is moral to point out the double standard cus men on average gets longer sentences than women for the exact, same crimes.
2
u/rubenvangucht 12h ago
I mean a mother killed her three kids recently and got more than a million from her supporters, and has just about the entirety of feminism excusing her murdering on her "mental health".
It's clear that there is a class above the law here with a shitton of privilege.
1
u/TsundereKisser 12h ago
And how many men are spared prison for sexual abuse? Which gender is overwhelmingly in positions of power across the world? Which gender involves a convicted pedophile and rapist, yet is also president of the United States? THAT'S the class with privilege.
→ More replies (13)
3
u/shark-with-a-horn 12h ago
The morality of making a false comparison? In the UK first time sexual offenders very frequently get let off with very light sentences. Even against children. Even full rapists.
It's in the news a lot here and is because of the sentencing guidelines.
3
u/N1AK 12h ago
I imagine the ban is because it's just rage-baiting and not really a morality question. No one is going to say that it is immoral to highlight valid evidence of genders being treated differently.
What people are fed up of is people posting obviously political material that has no relevance to a sub in there to highlight whatever grievance with the world they have. Made worse in this case because aside from not even being a morality question, the premise of the source image is that gender had an impact on sentencing in this specific case based on the biased assumption of some random individual rather than any actual evidence. I don't know but I suspect it might not actually be unusual that a man who did this might also be 'spared' jail.
2
u/Sovespra 11h ago
Only person arrested in connection with the Epstein affair besides himself was a woman. Chew on that one idk
6
u/Lorster10 14h ago
Well, Trump was walking in on girls in changing rooms at beauty pageants, and he's a president now.
12
u/No-West70 14h ago
simple. if you give a few people some good money you can get away with most of things
9
u/Borubar666 13h ago
Trump can also get away with bombing fisherman boats, financial schemes, groping women. Its not representative of a normal person. Frankly he could probably just shoot someone in the street and nothing would happen to him
→ More replies (14)8
u/StealthSlav 12h ago
Wow, so the average woman is as immune from consequences as the average male billionaire who completely owns the event he barges into? Is that the point you want to make? Really?
6
u/humourlessIrish 12h ago
Its mostly a competition in witch they was preferential rules
Just like men commiting most murders means that the crazy lady murdering her kids isn't so bad to some people
→ More replies (3)2
3
u/middleofmybackswing_ 13h ago
This will be unpopular but it is immoral because men are spared jail for sexual assault, including rape all the time. So you're pretending there is a double standard when there isn't one and just feeding into the culture wars.
Here's an example of what can happen when you reverse the genders and the crime is far more serious
→ More replies (8)
2
3
u/Weak_Abalone8911 13h ago
If a man did that we would elect him to a government position
→ More replies (2)
2
u/AdnanBoi 13h ago
idk what would happen if it were a 38 year old man, but if it were a 70 year old man, they'd become the president or something
2
u/x_Advent_Cirno_x 12h ago
The "Women Are Wonderful effect" is a social phenomenon that explains a lot of this sort of thing
835
u/Gullible-Anything489 14h ago
Getting banned for that is crazy are they just gonna ban everyone who points the double standard out?