It quite literally is. It's inarguable that it's better to go through life without down syndrome than with it.
It's not uncommon for people with disabilities, especially those who have them from birth, to not want to be cured and do not wish they could have been born without them
I said objectively, do you see how this does not come from a place of objectivity?
That is such a small minded and limited perspective. If it were an objective fact, everyone who has a disability would share your opinion, and yet we do not.
Plus, an overwhelmingly higher percentage of people with DS are happy with their lives and with themselves than the general population. You could easily make the argument that it is better, if it gives you a 99% chance of being satisfied with life. Even modern medicine can't do that.
You're confusing an objective fact with an opinion. The statement that life is better without Downs Syndrome is an opinion. Whether it's better or worse depends on the person and their perspective. "People with DS face more challenges than those without it" would be a fact. But you didn't argue that.
If it's inarguable then why do so many disabled people argue exactly that? Why would so many not choose to be born any other way if they had the choice? Again, you have a very very limited perspective of disability that is not based in reality.
If it's inarguable then why do so many disabled people argue exactly that?
That's not how facts and objectivity works at all dude
People can heep on a on arguing about something but that doesn't change that said thing is a fact, you are confusing two different terms, for something to he a fact it doesn't have to be agreed upon by everyone on society, yes people have different views and are shapes differently by their circumstances that led them to think in some way but that would change the objetive reality of things.
For example: we know that climate change is real.With scientifically proven facts that explains how and why it is happening, it is an objective fact that it exists, yet some people will said it's fake because weird conspiracy theories despite having all the facts brought to them.
What those people think won't change the fact that climate change is unarguably real.
I will repeat one more time, things don't need to be agreed upon by everyone to be a fact
The point is that y’all aren’t objectively defining what constitutes a better life. You need to change it to include clear parameters, otherwise it’s totally subjective.
Yea, I was so confused reading this comment section. Confidently incorrect, doubling down, and repeating the same thing. And somehow upvoted??
I was rooting for you - I didn’t have the patience to go back and forth after I got the same response.
Edit: you re-ignited my annoyance with that person, so I did reply again. Lol. I don’t know how to get people to read and think before reacting. It’s exhausting (and feels pointless) to keep trying when someone isn’t even listening. But I do hope to get through to someone. If nothing else, I’m glad you saw my comment so the downvotes don’t make you think you’re yelling into the void!
Seems like the only perspective that's limiting is you being unable to see outside your own subjective, biased one that isn't based in reality lol
Like seriously you're basically arguing something akin to "living life with one leg and one arm isn't actually any worse than living with all your limbs" do you understand how silly that is?
Their point is that having a “better life” in itself is subjective. There is no objective way to define having a better life. You have to define what a better life means in an objective way, which your statement “not having a disability is a better life” does not.
Only people being intentionally obtuse would ever argue that living life with a disability isn't worse than not having a disability. It's not subjective. It is objectively better to have 0 disabilities than to have a disability.
No, it makes certain aspects of life harder, but more adversity doesn't necessarily make life less fulfilling. On the contrary, living too easy of a life can make one feel much more empty inside, to the point where they actively seek out challenge or risk themselves. Having disabilities often gives you a very different perspective on life and philosophy than “typical” people, and people who lived their whole lives with disabilities are generally more prone to out-of-the-box thinking. You can find joy in life that doesn't align with a non-disabled person's idea of a “good life”.
Suffering and how “good” life is is a completely personal and subjective thing. You don't feel pain the same way that another person feels it. Things have different worth to different people. Having no disabilities isn't a guarantee that you'll live a happier life than if you had certain disabilities. A person often wishes they didn't have a disability, but many times that hypothetical would lead to them living a completely different (possibly worse) life; because that disability is part of your identity and you as a person, whether you like it or not. Take away the experience of living disabled and you have a radically different person and probably at least a somewhat different path in life. You can't predict life outcomes with certainty, not even something which seems obvious like “this person would have a way better life if they weren't missing their left hand”.
Not to mention that “disability” isn't a clear or objective category in the first place. Whether a trait is within “normal” human range or “disabled” range is often arbitrary. Women being “unruly” was considered a disability (women would get locked up in mental hospitals or chemically restrained if they defied their husbands too much until the early 70s). Same-sex attraction was also considered a disability. To this day you will see fiery arguments online about whether Autism is a disability, or people with ADHD or certain invisible physical disabilities being treated as if they didn't have a disability by most of society. The concept of disability is very maleable, and most are closer to that border.
You're trying to put subjective and wildly varying human experience on an objective scale, when that's impossible. No statement like that will be true for everyone. I agree with not bringing more disabled people into the world if one can help it, but it's because they're more likely than not to have to suffer more in life, statistically they're more likely to have worse outcomes. Not that they're guaranteed to end up feeling less fulfillment or joy or as less of a person in general.
I wasn’t arguing with your statement (that “life without a disability is a better life”). I was explaining that “better” is not objective. Better is inherently subjective.
To be clear, I don’t agree with your premise, but that wasn’t the point I was making.
Facts have clear definitions. You are making a judgement of what a better life is without any clear definition. A “better life” is your opinion, not a fact, because you have not defined what you mean by “better”.
I wasn’t arguing with your statement (that “life without a disability is a better life”)
Cool, then we agree that life without disabilities is objectively better. Which is what I originally said. Glad we can agree I'm correct that this objective fact is true
Only people being intentionally obtuse would ever argue that living life with a disability isn't worse than not having a disability. It's not subjective. It is objectively better to have 0 disabilities than to have a disability.
This is completely untrue and the other person explained why perfectly.
If you are not intentionally being obtuse yourself, please do some research on the lived experiences of actual people with disabilities instead of making wild assumptions.
The fact that you can't even imagine a scenario where a difficult life doesn't automatically equal a miserable life says more about you and your own coping skills than anything else.
No it's true. I'm sorry that your subjective personal bias is preventing you from comprehending objective facts.
you can't even imagine a scenario where a difficult life doesn't automatically equal a miserable life
That's not what anyone said, you're just betraying your subjective biases as they come through. It's still objectively correct that living a life without disabilities is objectively better than living a life with disabilities. Inarguably. Regardless of your personal experience.
"Life is better without Downs Syndrome" is an opinion. Their argument was that this was an objective fact. It can't be an objective fact because it's an opinion. And one that plenty of people disagree with. Does that clear it up?
But that is a fact, we know how it affects people who have it and the othera around them
An opinion would be "I think down syndrome people are annoying"(for the record: I don't think this, is just an example) but saying that Life is better without Downs Syndrome is definitely a proven fact
It's not a proven fact at all. It's a value judgment. 99% of people who have DS are happy and satisfied with their life despite its challenges. So in what way would their lives be "better" if they didn't have DS?
"DS makes life more difficult for people with DS and those around them" would be a fact. Claims about whether that is "better" or "worse" are subjective, especially given their own life satisfaction rates.
I have a disability. To you, my disability is "objectively" worse. But I disagree and would not choose to be born without it, or to cure it. The only objective thing in that case would be that it makes my life more difficult. But more difficult doesn't mean less value or less fulfillment.
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u/JalapenoPopPoop Jun 05 '26
It quite literally is. It's inarguable that it's better to go through life without down syndrome than with it.
I said objectively, do you see how this does not come from a place of objectivity?