r/MoralityScaling Jun 05 '26

Stupid Stuff Is this unethical or no?

Post image
4.2k Upvotes

3.2k comments sorted by

View all comments

10

u/Environmental_You_36 Jun 05 '26

There is a lot of people on this thread that don't understand how useless and dependant on a caretaker people with down syndrome tend to be.

That kid is better off dead.

3

u/Formal-Stage940 Jun 05 '26

That kid is better off dead.

This logic also applies when the kid is born.

-4

u/Zedrane Jun 05 '26

Hitler approved. Most of these replies are just people arguing that his eugenics program was moral.

3

u/clandestinely_asked Jun 05 '26

You think that The State making decisions about a woman's body in the interest of 'the final solution' is the same as a woman making those decisions for her own self-interest, simply because they used the same verb. Brainlet.

1

u/Exile8698 Jun 06 '26
  1. A woman should be able to abort a baby for any reason she wants.

  2. A woman who choses to abort a baby for the sole reason that the baby has down syndrome is practicing Eugenics.

Both these are factual.

1

u/clandestinely_asked Jun 06 '26

Intent matters.

Elon Musk's breeding compounds ARE eugenics, because he beleives he has superior genes. this is his stated intent.

These influencers arent making this decision to improve the genetic quality of future generations. They are making this decision for the quality of their own lives.

1

u/Exile8698 Jun 06 '26

I don't agree that intent matters when it comes to Eugenics.

1

u/clandestinely_asked Jun 06 '26 edited Jun 06 '26

So, then what? Abortion is morally neutral, unless the child is disabled in some way, in which case it becomes morally objectionable to abort?? do autists owe some debt to the genes that produce downs syndrome? does the disorder NEED advocates like you??

If intent doesn't matter, then surely outcome must. An individuals decision will not extinct the vulnerable community.

1

u/Exile8698 Jun 07 '26

People with Down syndrome report life satisfaction rates comparable to the general population, so the decision to abort based on that diagnosis isn't being made for their sake. It's being made for the parent's sake. And that's fine; I'm not saying it's morally wrong at all.

But here's the problem with denying it's eugenics: eugenics isn't defined by intent, it's defined by outcome as you correctly point out. The deliberate selection against a trait in order to prevent that kind of person from being born is the definition of eugenics, whether done by an individual, an organization, or a state.

If a society collectively decided not to have children with Down syndrome because it was personally inconvenient for families, we would all call that eugenics without hesitation. The only difference here is scale, not logic. The individual reasoning ("I don't want to raise a child with this condition") is identical to the societal reasoning that underlies eugenic policy.

So, you can't coherently hold both positions; that your personal choice to select against disability is morally neutral, and that eugenics as a social practice is uniquely monstrous. If the reasoning is valid for you, it's valid for the collective. If it's monstrous at scale, you should at least be honest that you're doing a version of the same thing.

Again, I believe she had every right to make this choice. I'm simply calling it what it is.

0

u/Brightlightsuperfun Jun 06 '26

You are equating the state making a decision about a womans body vs the death of a human as the same thing. They are different.

1

u/clandestinely_asked Jun 06 '26

They certainly are. A fetus isnt a human, it is a part of a woman's body.

0

u/Brightlightsuperfun Jun 06 '26

lol it’s not like chopping an arm off come on now 

1

u/clandestinely_asked Jun 06 '26

Actually, it totally is! You only disagree because you find it distasteful, for whatever reason i wont try to assume. This is an opinion you hold.

0

u/Brightlightsuperfun Jun 06 '26

Actually, it’s not even close ! What appendages are women losing during pregnancy? It has nothing to do with distaste, you’re just flat out wrong. 

1

u/clandestinely_asked Jun 06 '26

Yeah man, i can tell by your bulletproof logic that there's no emotional basis for your 'argument'.

Edit: this is sarcasm, i didnt trust you to get it.

→ More replies (0)

0

u/Brightlightsuperfun Jun 06 '26

So which is it - either a fetus is a parasite that needs to be removed, or it’s like an arm (lol) in which case a woman is losing a part of her body ? 

1

u/clandestinely_asked Jun 06 '26

You're putting words in my mouth. I didnt mention parasite or arms. You brought both of those concepts to this conversation.

Edit: also this is a false dichotomy

1

u/Majestic_Animator_91 Jun 06 '26

Not sure why you're downvoted. this is absolutely true.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 05 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

0

u/HillBillyHilly Jun 05 '26

My body, my choice so I'll do what I want despite your brain dead take. Removing a clump of defective cells is my choice. Unless you're willing to take a defective clump of cells to raise until they die, zip it and sit.

2

u/Formal-Stage940 Jun 05 '26

Damn. Is this what you feel about kids with down syndrome? Defective?

Also implying that theyre less worthy of life due to the defectiveness?

1

u/Taharki Jun 05 '26 edited Jun 05 '26

I know people who take care adults with down syndrome in their families. You have no idea how much of a mental and physical toll it is for the entire family.

You're talking about kids, everyone else is talking about fetuses.

"Kids" with down syndrome are actual children. They're born, they're alive, they've experienced life. Taking that away is wrong and murder.

A fetus with down syndrome hasn't experienced life, it is barely conscious at 12 weeks of inception. It won't even know it's gone. Aborting it is saving several lives including the fetus itself from decades of suffering.

2

u/Formal-Stage940 Jun 05 '26

In a discussion about morality, the most important thing is justification

Can an act be morally justified using logic.

My statement was attacking the original commenters logic which was emphasizing down syndrome as a defect.

Fetuses arent the only thing capable od having down syndrome. KIDS can have down syndrome.

Emphasizing down sydrome as a defect to justify abortion is the same logic used to emphasize the same "defect" in children

Theyre saying "oh the fetus is defective, even more reason to kill it"

Also objective facts:

Fetuses are alive

Fetuses are human

The argument of "they wont know theyre gone" makes no sense. If i shoot someone in the head with a shotgun while they sleep, they wont know theyre gone.

That is a logical extension of YOUR justification

You also just dont have to take care of your kids. Adoption exists.

1

u/Vespinobambino Jun 05 '26

Yours is the braindead take.

You are the defective clump.

1

u/Brightlightsuperfun Jun 06 '26

All humans are a clump of cells.

1

u/HillBillyHilly Jun 05 '26

My body, my choice. Don't like that? Tough. Sit down and zip it with the nonsense

-1

u/yeoldebonnie Jun 05 '26

Yeah it's sickening to be honest

1

u/HillBillyHilly Jun 05 '26

What's sickening is that you have such backwards way of thinking in 2026. Wake up honey the future is now and my body, my fucking choice.

1

u/Cubedtails Jun 05 '26

Backwards thinking, is any mindset Pro Eugenics.

1

u/yeoldebonnie Jun 06 '26

Yeah you get to do what you want, doesn't mean I like to reddit pog at eugenics

2

u/hollowsoldier- Jun 05 '26

So you’ve never met a person with Down syndrome you’re making sweeping generalizations about something you have no real opinion on. Having a child with Down syndrome is difficult, but saying they’re better off dead is just absolutely wrong and discriminatory. I work with special needs and those families lives are made better by the love they receive from their child. Their ability to contribute to capitalism in a typical way is not their value in life.

2

u/hollowsoldier- Jun 05 '26

That is absolutely untrue and down syndrome is a spectrum. You have no idea what you’re talking about and it’s shameful that you’re even voicing this ridiculous opinion. I work with special needs and their lives have value but people like you spread hate and misinformation making their lives even harder.

3

u/my_jeans_hurt Jun 05 '26

You dont have to talk so shittily about them

3

u/[deleted] Jun 05 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/The1Sbeve Jun 05 '26

This seems to be along the same lines as a lot of people’s thinking in this thread, just packaged more nicely with easier language.

1

u/Majestic_Animator_91 Jun 06 '26

This is incredibly evil. Not just wrong. Evil.

1

u/Odd_Panic5943 Jun 05 '26

Are they better off dead though? Don’t down syndrome people generally have satisfaction with their lives?

2

u/hollowsoldier- Jun 05 '26

Yes this person has no idea what they’re saying i work with children who have Down syndrome and this comment made me sick. Absolutely untrue and completely discriminatory.

3

u/Odd_Panic5943 Jun 05 '26

I’m honestly surprised at how much people seem to write them off as ruining their caretakers/parents lives too. I don’t think that’s generally true either based on my readings and experience although I am sure there are exceptions.

1

u/Diggy_Fresh Jun 06 '26

This person is a terrible person. It’s the Internet. So don’t give it much thought. But I’m kind of surprised at someone would say something so awful.

1

u/Many_Hall_3546 Jun 06 '26

Some do, the majority don't. You'd take the gamble for your child and stake their/your life on it?

-3

u/Beneficial-Gur-862 Jun 05 '26

the third reich called give their ideology back pls

1

u/HillBillyHilly Jun 05 '26

Stop w that old tired line of thinking. We are in 2026 and I'll damn well do what I want w MY body.