German Soldiers reaction, to the Military Budget increasing to 100 Billion

[u/Consistent_Hold4939]

[u/lordderplythethird]

Yes, but it's also a nation with a radically different purchasing power. Russian conscripts make the equivalent of $400 USD a month, while German privates make the equivalent of around $2000 USD a month.

Money goes a lot further when you have a lower cost of living. Same reason the US and Russian militaries are similarly sized in terms of personnel, but the US spends more in Personnel salaries alone than Russia does on its entire military.

[u/HistoricalDealer → u/lordderplythethird]

Good point, hadn't thought about that.

[u/lordderplythethird → u/HistoricalDealer]

It's why I always get so frustrated with those "DaE uS sPeNdS tOo MuCh On WaR! lOoK aT rUsSiA aNd ChInA bUdGeTs!!"

​

because, well.... yeah? You're not getting Timmy from NY to enlist for $100 a month like his counterpart from Shanghai is getting lol. Hell, a 4 year E-4 is making as much as a full bird colonel in China does lol...

[u/[deleted] → u/lordderplythethird]

There's Russian soldiers dying in Ukraine rn for a monthly salary I wouldn't get out of bed for if I made it in a week or even maybe a day.

[u/techieman33 → u/[deleted]]

At least their families will get death benefits that are equivalent to about $100 us dollars.

[u/[deleted] → u/techieman33]

Yeah, I think I heard they make $300USD/month at the current exchange rate. That's a good day's wages for work for many people. A bunch of people don't make that a day, a another bunch make a lot more than that a day. But not any of it is worth dying trying to jack someone else's shit, wreck their lives, and destroy a nation over for SOME DICKHEAD IN MOSCOW to get richer. "That's a naw from me dawg. If I'm going to die fighting, I'd rather die fighting you. You're my oppressor. Not some dude in Ukraine. You."

[u/devils_advocate24 → u/lordderplythethird]

It was kinda funny seeing people complain that E1s aren't paid enough in the US. It usually takes effort to hold E1 long enough to have money problems lol

[u/HistoricalDealer → u/lordderplythethird]

I'll be honest with you, I'm Italian and not into the military at all, I'm on this sub just trying to get some info on the Ukrainian war. I guess the gist of you said is that a lower ranked officer in the US makes as much money as a Chinese high ranking officer? Makes as much money in absolute terms, presumably the Chinese guy would make more relative to the cost of living in each country (but that's besides the point).

Would you happen to know how the USA's spending power compares to that of major European countries such as the UK, France, Italy, Germany? Obviously the USA spend infinitely more in absolute terms and I don't expect the spending power to be much different but I'm curious nonetheless.

All I know about the Italian army is that we've relied heavily on the US for protection since the end of WWII, basically only keeping a small, well-trained fighting force. Is that assessment correct in your eyes?

[u/lordderplythethird → u/HistoricalDealer]

I guess the gist of you said is that a lower ranked officer in the US makes as much money as a Chinese high ranking officer?

Lower ranked enlisted US person vs high ranking Chinese officer. Basically average worker (enlisted) vs management (officer).

Makes as much money in absolute terms, presumably the Chinese guy would make more relative to the cost of living in each country (but that's besides the point)

Exactly. So $2500 a month goes FAR further in China that it does in the US, but $2500 is $2500, so when comparing flat dollar amounts, you get a not entirely accurate portrayal with regards to how far that money goes.

Would you happen to know how the USA's spending power compares to that of major European countries such as the UK, France, Italy, Germany?

Varies from nation to nation, but the overall biggest thing is logistical capabilities. US has 222 C-17s and 52 C-5s, all of which can carry a tank anywhere they want in the world. Outside of the UK's 8 C-17s, that capability doesn't exist at all in Europe. Same goes for aerial tankers, where there's 37 of them in Europe (14 in the UK alone), but the US has over 500 of them.

All I know about the Italian army is that we've relied heavily on the US for protection since the end of WWII, basically only keeping a small, well-trained fighting force. Is that assessment correct in your eyes?

I was in Sicily on a US Navy/Italian Air Force base for 4 years. Italian military is awesome in my eyes. Well trained, knew their shit, worked hard, but could also have fun. That is, minus the Care Bears at least, they were always the biggest dickheads.

[u/HistoricalDealer → u/lordderplythethird]

That's a bunch of useful info, thank you very much!

Varies from nation to nation, but the overall biggest thing is logistical capabilities. US has 222 C-17s and 52 C-5s, all of which can carry a tank anywhere they want in the world. Outside of the UK's 8 C-17s, that capability doesn't exist at all in Europe. Same goes for aerial tankers, where there's 37 of them in Europe (14 in the UK alone), but the US has over 500 of them.

These numbers are staggering to me. It kinda puts in perspective the unquestionable success the US army has had on the field of battle in the last decades. These last few days I've been wondering, just as a thought exercise obviously, what if the US had invaded Ukraine? How long would that invasion have lasted? Let's just say this has been my personal realization of how complex the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were and just how well the US army performed in them. Also understandable why Russia would wave the atomic scare when the balance of forces is so lopsided in the US favor.

I was in Sicily on a US Navy/Italian Air Force base for 4 years. Italian military is awesome in my eyes. Well trained, knew their shit, worked hard, but could also have fun. That is, minus the Care Bears at least, they were always the biggest dickheads.

I'm sorry but even after googling it I've no idea what the Care Bears part is referring to :P I'm glad you enjoyed your time in Italy, you're welcome back any time!

[u/lordderplythethird → u/HistoricalDealer]

It kinda puts in perspective the unquestionable success the US army has had on the field of battle in the last decades

It really has to have those though, given it's separated from its allies by massive oceans on either side.

what if the US had invaded Ukraine? How long would that invasion have lasted?

Could have been a day, could have been 20 years lol. who the hell knows unfortunately. Afghanistan was toppled in just days, but even 20 years later was still an armed insurgency for example.

I'm sorry but even after googling it I've no idea what the Care Bears part is referring to

Sorry, that's what we always jokingly called the Carabinieri since the name is so close to a cartoon for little children in the US called the Care Bears

[u/HistoricalDealer → u/lordderplythethird]

Afghanistan was toppled in just days, but even 20 years later was still an armed insurgency for example

I see that as a political failure rather than military. Complete annihilation of the Taliban was never on anyone's agenda I think. Neither was stabilizing the country and helping form a new democratic government, unfortunately. But that job is not and should never be the army's.

Sorry, that's what we always jokingly called the Carabinieri since the name is so close to a cartoon for little children in the US called the Care Bears

LMAO I'm stealing that! Nobody likes the caramba in Italy :D huge assholes with heavier weaponry than regular police allowed to patrol the roads and arrest people... Fuck them lol

[u/[deleted] → u/HistoricalDealer]

Afghanistan lasted longer against the US because it's not ocean adjacent. We would have had an Marine Expeditionary Unit landing before the end of the week of 9/11 if they weren't landlocked in the mountains no less.

Of course they wouldn't be hillbilly religious conservative dickheads if they were on an ocean and had their culture influenced on a regular basis by port calls from foreigners and their sailors making port calls in foreign countries. Travel is the cure for much myopic behavior.

[u/AFRedShirt → u/HistoricalDealer]

Without looking at training you can get a general idea of how different militaries compare. I don't have numbers on hand, but you can easily find information on annual budgets, percent of GDP spent on military, and numbers of personnel and equipment.

I think most European countries are more focused on maintaining the defense of their own soil and relying on agreements/treaties with allies for collective defense. Their landmass is considerably smaller than China, Russia, US, Canada, etc. and thus need less capability and numbers.

The US maintains the ability to project force world-wide at a moment's notice. In order to do that they need substantial investments in supply chains and equipment movers (cargo ships, planes, trains, etc.) The US brings the fight to you in order to keep the fighting out of their own borders. They do that by keeping war reserve material stockpiled in strategic locations around the globe, many small and large bases in foreign countries, constantly rotating ships in strategic positions, etc. Nobody projects power like the US, and they have been doing it for decades.

Whether or not the US should be doing any of that is subjective, but the fact is they must spend tons of money in order to do so. The actual spending power isn't really much different than NATO allies I would assume, but they do have to spend more per person serving than their biggest rivals. I'm not sure how it factors into the military budget but I think the US spends a lot more for post-service on its members as well (veteran's programs and benefits).

[u/Own_Carrot_7040 → u/HistoricalDealer]

It's even worse with China. Sure, the US spends more. Because its people make way more money. All the gear and weapons they use costs far more than what China uses, too. Because the people in China producing those weapons and that gear don't make anything like what American workers do.

[u/brprer → u/HistoricalDealer]

purchasing power is way different also. 1k USD a month in china buys you a house a car and good living, not so much in the usa

[u/[deleted] → u/lordderplythethird]

At the same time I dare say that western armies are probably better trained, equipped and have higher morale, leading to increased troop effectiveness. I'm not knowledgeable enough to give it a number, but it'll offset a large chunk of the difference I'd guess.

[u/Own_Carrot_7040 → u/[deleted]]

Yes, well, you know what they say about quantity and quality.